Do you believe in God/are you religious?

[Dean]

I know I'm potentially opening a pretty big can of worms here, but right now I feel like picking people's brains on the matter so there.

I'm fairly sure I don't believe in God. I'm a humanist. What about you?

[Todd]

No and no.

[[TDWP] Jacob]

Yes and no. I believe in God but have my own way with God. I'm confirmed in the Catholic church and I guess I consider myself catholic but I don't follow their doctrine or dogma. It's all pointless. The place you end up should be according to the life you lived.

[El Muerto]

I believe in God. I'm Orthodox Christian but I almost never go to Church.

[Agent O]

I believe in Allah (I'm a Muslim) and I try to follow all the basic ground rules of our religion. Although there are a lot of things that I don't follow at all, mostly out of laziness. Someday that'll come bite me in the ass lol.

[SabiLP]

I am Christian and proud to be but I have to admit that I'm not following all of the rules. I like the conception of christianity, especially moral principles and I'm trying to be a good person, helpful and not too selfish.

[Timothy]

I don't believe in God and don't particularly care for organized religion. I think a lot of that stems from growing up in the Bible Belt and being exposed to the hypocrisies of southern evangelical culture. I'm not as outwardly antagonistic towards religion now, though. If religion fills a void in someone's life, who am I to judge?

[Xero21]

No to both.

[Avo]

I despise religion for all of the problems it's caused, and I especially hate people who try to covert/condemn me. I think it's made me a bit more bitter as a person, because I get extremely worked up watching ignorance and hypocrisy. That's why I usually go out of my way to avoid debates on religion with my friends because we all usually end up pissing each other off lol.

[Theazninvasion68]

Yes, and becoming yes.

A few years back, it would have been no and no.

Recently, I've been more of a believer than ever before. And ever since I made that decision, an honest opinion and evaluation of my life would be that it has gotten much better overall.

[Todd]

Yes, and becoming yes.

A few years back, it would have been no and no.

Recently, I've been more of a believer than ever before. And ever since I made that decision, an honest opinion and evaluation of my life would be that it has gotten much better overall.

Really? My life got better when I realized I don't have to please some invisible man in the sky by following a book that man wrote 2,000 years ago.

[Benjamin]

No and no. Though it's weird to think about where we did come from. What happened before the supposed Big Bang? And before that and before that? It's mind boggling if you ask me.

In my opinion, a big piece of evidence that there is no God-like figure is that there are so many damn religions. Obviously, they can't all be right. Odds are that none of them are since there isn't a Religion with more proof than the other that they're accurate.

[Derek The Infamous]

I try to be religious, and try to believe that something greater is to credit for our existence, but with the world becoming the way it is now it's hard to believe in any type of God. I mean who needs the devil, when we have people on the earth right now more evil than the Devil could ever dream of being?

Put me down as an Agnostic. It's not that I so much don't believe, it's more that I'm waiting for legit (scientific) and indisputable proof of the existence of a God. If a God came down right now, and proved to the world his existence...I'd believe and likely even claim allegiance to him. Till then? I'm living my life without worry of how it'll be perceived by a "guardian" above. My family and others I know have gone through too much pain and suffering for me to legitimately believe someone is watching over us.

[iNuBBiN]

Yes and kinda. I believe in god. I believe everyone has there own relationship with God. I do how ever do not believe that anyone has a right to disagree or tell someone that there personal beliefs are wrong. Being a christian, I was taught that are religion is the only right one and if you believed in something else you were going to hell. I dont have the right to say a religion is wrong. I dont go to church. Many people think just by going to Church and learning about God they are a perfect christian, but I think God doesnt want us to just go hear someone talk about him. I think no 2 people can believe in the exact same thing. I think God wants all of us to live our lives and learn from our mistakes, and find him ourselves rather then someone telling us who he is

[Dinobot]

I don't know if I believe in god. I don't think there's a god in the biblical sense: a sentient, all powerful being who rewards good and punishes evil. I'm not even sure I believe in an afterlife.

What I do believe is in a bigger order of things. A higher power that keeps the Universe working as a giant clock, a perfect machine in which the laws of nature, physics and life are designed in a way that you can't change something without destroying the balance of things. An intelligent design in all existing things, you could say.

A friend once told me I was a deist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism). I think he's right.

[Benjamin]

I try to respect everyone's religious beliefs. However, what infuriates me is when people have their religion affect the rest of society that doesn't necessarily believe in that religion. A big example of this is the whole "God doesn't like gay people" bullshit. The funny thing is that the Bible says a lot of other things that even core Christians don't do. I'm also not a fan of politicians bringing religion into politics.

Also, I laugh when athletes thank god for winning a game. Even if there is a God, I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a damn if you scored a goal :lol:

[El Muerto]

Really? My life got better when I realized I don't have to please some invisible man in the sky by following a book that man wrote 2,000 years ago.

The Roman law was written 2000 years ago and it's still one of the the bases of the modern society. Your argument is invalid.

But seriously though, I perceive God as some force in the universe that is omnipresent and controls everything, not as a man with white beard who sits in a chair and watches down on me.
It kinda makes sense to me, everything is the world is controlled by some kid of force, so it kinda seems dumb that our presence here is just random.

And yeah, oranized religion has caused a lot of wars and destruction in the past, but I can bet all my money that if religion didn't exist at all people would still find something to fight over.

That was just my 0.0144686392 Euros

[Dean]

I think that's one of the things I disagree with religion on the most, fatalism and stuff. The universe is big and random and imperfect, and to me it makes more sense to think things just happen. Saying there's a higher purpose just complicates the issue.

[Ryo Hazuki]

No and Yes. I'm an atheist and I dislike religion and I do think that some religions are actually at the core of the problem instead of just some of the people that practice those religions. When you have a religion that supports rape, murder, sexual hate crime, slavery, greed, gender discrimination, right in its holy books its hard to say "Oh yeah, it's just some of the people not the religion itself." Sorry if that offends anyone but that is what my observations have led me to believe. Though I don't hate the concept of religion as it is proven to help people relieve stress but I support non-theist religion more than anything. Again sorry if you're offended, I don't mean to do that.

And Yes I am religious in an Einsteinian sense. I view the world religiously and think of ways that could better it. I guess you could say that I'm a bit of a humanist also. My views are actually too complex without it bleeding into a very long rant so I'll just leave it at a no I don't believe in a God (I think your title should be changed to a God instead of just God because there are those who are polytheistic and believe in more than one) and yes I am a bit religious.

[Benjamin]

I try to be religious,

Why? So that you're not a "bad person." That does seem to be the attitude with a lot of people. I get really weird stares when I tell people I don't believe in God. It's hypocritical if you ask me. Atheism is just as fair to believe in than Religion.

[El Muerto]

I think that's one of the things I disagree with religion on the most, fatalism and stuff. The universe is big and random and imperfect, and to me it makes more sense to think things just happen. Saying there's a higher purpose just complicates the issue.

Despite being kinda religious, I'm actually a science person, and I think that science proves that things actually don't just happen. For every action there's a reaction. You don't breathe because you just do, but because there's a series of biological processes that lead to you breathing and they're all governed by laws of physics and chemistry and are not at all random.

And universe if far from imperfect. When did anything in the universe just happen randomly? When did a star explode all of a sudden without going through all the phases of a dying star. The moons revolve around planets, planets revolve around stars, stars revolve around the centres of their galaxies that further revolve around something.. That's order, that's law, it may just seem random like your breathing seems random. For all I know, the universe is the perfection itself. And God is the ultimate force.

And don't get me wrong, I know this was a long post, but I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind or anything, just trying to show you where I'm coming from.

[Ryo Hazuki]

I just really hate how when people don't have the answers they revert back to their age-old answer God did it.
Not talking about anyone specifically but just in general, I've known a lot of people like that.

[Theazninvasion68]

Really?

Yes. Actually, really.

What, do I have to prove myself now? :lol:

[travz21]

I don't like getting into topics like this. It drastically sways my views on other people. But, since I already started, I might as well add something.

I'm atheist, and nothing in the world makes me feel religious. I believe in science and making calculations about what we observe in the universe. This seems much more feasible an option than just taking other peoples' word (the bible) that we are run by something we can't observe in reality. Like, what? Why would we just believe that and run with it being the intelligent race that we are? We need to be questioning everything we see, which I think we are. For some, this leads to science. These people try and figure out why everything is the way it is. If they can't figure it out, they keep trying and chalk it up to not knowing enough yet. For some others, it leads to believing in God. These people don't need to figure things out, because they just chalk it up to "God did it", and they praise him for making life the way it is. They give tons of money to the churches to continue spreading the word of fairy tales and to touch little boys. I don't even want to think of how much money has been wasted over the thousands of years.

What I find most disturbing about that is that there are probably a vast number of religious people who do wonder, and don't simply equate everything to "God made it that way", yet they keep believing in God because they don't know what else to do, or because everyone else is doing it.


When I get into it like this, I know I come down pretty hard on people who believe, but I'm not trying to offensively single them out, nor am I trying to convert anyone haha. I'm ok with them, I just wish things were differently in the world.

[Dean]

Despite being kinda religious, I'm actually a science person, and I think that science proves that things actually don't just happen. For every action there's a reaction. You don't breathe because you just do, but because there's a series of biological processes that lead to you breathing and they're all governed by laws of physics and chemistry and are not at all random.

And universe if far from imperfect. When did anything in the universe just happen randomly? When did a star explode all of a sudden without going through all the phases of a dying star. The moons revolve around planets, planets revolve around stars, stars revolve around the centres of their galaxies that further revolve around something.. That's order, that's law, it may just seem random like your breathing seems random. For all I know, the universe is the perfection itself. And God is the ultimate force.

And don't get me wrong, I know this was a long post, but I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind or anything, just trying to show you where I'm coming from.
Well yeah, I believe in causality. There's a difference between that and saying that everything was decided by God and so on though.

As for imperfections, you just have to look here on Earth. Why are there birds that have wings but can't actually fly? Why are parts of the human body like the gut not protected naturally? Why does the platypus even exist? There's still order in the universe but to me it's so big and random that sometimes that just happens to occur. And there's still beauty in that so I guess on that level I'm kind of spiritual in a way. Like Carl Sagan.
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To me, that's just it. That's sincerely what I believe and it sums up my worldview better than I ever could.

[Timothy]

The Roman law was written 2000 years ago and it's still one of the the bases of the modern society. Your argument is invalid.

But seriously though, I perceive God as some force in the universe that is omnipresent and controls everything, not as a man with white beard who sits in a chair and watches down on me.
It kinda makes sense to me, everything is the world is controlled by some kid of force, so it kinda seems dumb that our presence here is just random.

And yeah, oranized religion has caused a lot of wars and destruction in the past, but I can bet all my money that if religion didn't exist at all people would still find something to fight over.

That was just my 0.0144686392 Euros

Yeah, the word "God" can be interpreted in different ways. Is it the laws of the universe? Old dude who banishes you to hell for too much fapping?

[Dean]

I can change the title to be more inclusive if people want. So far I've got God, Gods, Brahman, Stephen Fry, Cthulu, tree spirits... what else?

[travz21]

The universe is randomly perfect at times, and randomly imperfect at times. That's what randomness does. It covers all extremes and everything in between. Of course there are laws that govern its existence, but everything else just goes with the flow and is randomness at its finest.

Most people don't like thinking of life as one big clusterfuck of randomness, which is where God comes in. Then there are other people who think we just got lucky to be alive. We defied a lot of odds to make it here, but that's what randomness does. Somewhere in the universe, there will always be something defying the odds, even if it has to win a coinflip a million times in a row. If it's not impossible by the laws of the universe, it's more than likely going to happen or has already happened.



I can change the title to be more inclusive if people want. So far I've got God, Gods, Brahman, Stephen Fry, Cthulu, tree spirits... what else?

Those triforce goddesses.

[sotrix]

I'm borderline antitheist. Gotta remind myself to chill sometimes. Can't be too negative, it's polarizing.

[El Muerto]

Well yeah, I believe in causality. There's a difference between that and saying that everything was decided by God and so on though.

As for imperfections, you just have to look here on Earth. Why are there birds that have wings but can't actually fly? Why are parts of the human body like the gut not protected naturally? Why does the platypus even exist? There's still order in the universe but to me it's so big and random that sometimes that just happens to occur. And there's still beauty in that so I guess on that level I'm kind of spiritual in a way. Like Carl Sagan.


:lol:. Platypus is there because of the Rock'n'roll evolution:

http://cdn.synthtopia.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/keytar-platypus-546x365.jpg

[ThaHandyman]

Yes I believe in God, but you would have to define 'religious'. I go to baptist and non-denominational churches (depends if I'm at home or school) and try to read the Bible everyday, which is pretty easy now with my phone. I'm not perfect, I don't follow all of the 'rules' perfectly, but that is my aim. My parents both went to church yes, and still do, but even in college I realized that the best path to take as the one closest to Christ, and that my way is only gonna make things harder.

I've seen some people in this thread, and on the LPU when I was there say they're waiting for proof, or are unsure, which is totally cool, but Christianity is a faith, not a religion. There will never be any 'proof' for or against God, that's why its faith, you believe.

Do I know all the answers? No. Am I perfect? No, in fact i'm sure there are plenty of non-Christians who follow basic religious moral codes than I do, but I strive to be more like Christ.

edit: and I saw dumbledore's post, God loves gay people as much as anyone. It makes me mad that anyone would say God hates f--s, because that is just totally inaccurate and the opposite of what the whole New Testament preaches. God hates sin, homosexuality is a sin, just as heterosexual premarital sex is a sin, God doesn't hate anyone...he created us. It's really unfortunate that some people twist the Word to fit their own, i don't know assumptions, but in a world where the media covers every little thing those people get national exposure :/

[travz21]

I want to know how many times the bible will be edited to fit in with scientific findings. What version are they on now? 2.8? At least? The bible clearly speaks the truth. And Earth is, what, like 6,000 years old?

[Agent O]

And yeah, oranized religion has caused a lot of wars and destruction in the past, but I can bet all my money that if religion didn't exist at all people would still find something to fight over.


I totally agree. I don't like how people condemn religions by saying "its the cause of wars blah blah". No. We exploit religion and wage wars. We use it as an excuse to cause violence. What some seem to forget is that staying under the moral and religious codes, millions are leading peaceful and happy lives. Something which, in the absence of religion, might not have been there.

[Dean]

edit: and I saw dumbledore's post, God loves gay people as much as anyone. It makes me mad that anyone would say God hates f--s, because that is just totally inaccurate and the opposite of what the whole New Testament preaches. God hates sin, homosexuality is a sin, just as heterosexual premarital sex is a sin, God doesn't hate anyone...he created us. It's really unfortunate that some people twist the Word to fit their own, i don't know assumptions, but in a world where the media covers every little thing those people get national exposure :/
It makes even less sense that way. It's kind of like saying having blue eyes is a sin, but God creates people with blue eyes anyway.


I totally agree. I don't like how people condemn religions by saying "its the cause of wars blah blah". No. We exploit religion and wage wars. We use it as an excuse to cause violence. What some seem to forget is that staying under the moral and religious codes, millions are leading peaceful and happy lives. Something which, in the absence of religion, might not have been there.
Not saying religion should be gotten rid of, but it'd be one less excuse to go to war I guess.

I agree with what Tim said but when it comes down to it you can't have it just one way, and you can't say that if something good happens it's because of religion but if something bad happens it can't be. It's done good things and continues to. It's done bad things and continues to. Sometimes it's incidental and sometimes it's actually in the scriptures.

[ThaHandyman]

I want to know how many times the bible will be edited to fit in with scientific findings. What version are they on now? 2.8? At least? The bible clearly speaks the truth. And Earth is, what, like 6,000 years old?

have you heard of the dead sea scrolls? im not sure where u got the idea for this post...

[travz21]

I just read a little about them now. What does that have to do with anything regarding what I said?

[esaul17]

No to both. I made a topic of this nature ages ago and argued for quite a while in it.

[ThaHandyman]

I just read a little about them now. What does that have to do with anything regarding what I said?

They were found to be almost identical to existing modern translations of the Bible. The Bible hasn't been changed, its been translated yes, but not changed.

[Rebecca Black]

Yes and no.

I believe in god, and I believe god is up there to help me guide my life. When something bad happens in my life, I think that god is making me go through it for a better future; or a lesson I learn for the future. It has really made me become a positive person.

But I'm not religious. I'm not a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or any religion for the matter. I dislike going to churches (I had to when I was young). I don't believe God created the universe, etc.

And It pisses me off when people use god as an excuse for homophobia. I hate it so much. That's just evil.

That is all I have to say.

P.S. Funny thing is, Michael Jackson is the person who made me convinced that believing in god is a right thing to do (Hey, if you don't believe in god, that's not wrong. You can believe in anything you want and I don't care. But believing in god isn't wrong either). I saw interviews of him and he kept mentioning god, and how God gave him the strength to move on in life. So I tried doing that, and although it was very difficult at first, It was definitely worth it.

[travz21]

I like hearing about people that are positively motivated by religion. Most of the people I hear from are religious either because they were brought up that way and haven't thought for themselves yet, or because everyone else is religious... so why not join the party?

[Vriska]

No and No... and ironically, after becoming a mean ol Atheist I seem to have discovered a path of clarity, and I became a much happier person. I was not expecting that because of the stupid stereotypes.


I totally agree. I don't like how people condemn religions by saying "its the cause of wars blah blah". No. We exploit religion and wage wars. We use it as an excuse to cause violence. What some seem to forget is that staying under the moral and religious codes, millions are leading peaceful and happy lives. Something which, in the absence of religion, might not have been there.

Since I do not believe any part of religion has a positive contribution to society that another part of society doesn't already cover, I think the bad outweighs the good here. I do not see any benefit for people to lie to themselves. How can you solve problems with other people if you do not understand people and the world around you?

I find most religiously based codes to be outdated and morally bankrupt. The ones that survive today only survived because they were actually good ideas, but a lot of the bad ones persist because they are a part of religion and it's considered bad to offend people's religious sensibilities, even if those sensibilities are evil. Whenever I think of a highly religious society, I think of sharia law, the persecution of gay people, female genital mutilation, Texan schoolkids teasing their atheist classmates, and many other demands to conform. My ideal world is a world where people are okay with expressing their conflicts verbally. Conflict is necessary for a group to figure out how to do the right thing. The best idea is then granted an opportunity to come out on top. When verbal conflict is denied for the sake of peacefulness, you may jeopordize that peacefulness because the oppressed will then have to resort to violence.

The #1 problem with religion is that it creates arbitrary moral rules with the belief, not the knowledge, that they will appease a God. Then it shuts down people who disagree with those rules because the people who created them pretend that God said so. No human is God. No human has the right to declare that moral code X is divine and that everyone else should conform to those codes without definitive proof that their God is the right God. Since there's isn't definitive proof, people should remain humble and respect that others can come to different conclusion then they do. Religious societies don't reflect this humbleness.

Not to mention - there is a rank somewhere that lists countries in order of the quality of life of its citizens. Secular societies like Sweden ranks among the best. Religious countries ranked much worse.

While vices like greed will always exist, we don't need more causes of hatred hanging about. Fewer is better.


They were found to be almost identical to existing modern translations of the Bible. The Bible hasn't been changed, its been translated yes, but not changed.

But the parts before that though were passed on orally. Look at the book of Genesis: one part says Noah brought two of each kind of animal onto the Ark. Another part says he brought seven. That's from when the poor scribe didn't know which version of events to write down.

Not to mention that translation by itself is enough of a giant change.

[iamsatan]

Undecided if I believe in god, I don't believe in organized religion though. I was raised(forced) to be Catholic, but I don't follow it at all and don't consider myself Catholic.

[Timothy]

Undecided if I believe in god, I don't believe in organized religion though. I was raised(forced) to be Catholic, but I don't follow it at all and don't consider myself Catholic.

Sour grapes from being cast out of heaven?

[Xero21]

people should remain humble and respect that others can come to different conclusion then they do. Religious societies don't reflect this humbleness.


This is where you're generalizing. You may remember from a previous religions thread that I am also an Atheist. However, I like to show religious people the tolerance that I expect from them.

Here's a video a friend of mine in college found (my friend is the first guy speaking, the second guy is the original video he found).

The title of the video is "Dear Atheists and Homosexuals: I Am Sorry" It is a young Christian apologizing for the people you were referring to Kathy, those that condemn others just because they disagree with Christian beliefs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eetk35H_LKI

The argument that "Christianity (or any religion) causes intolerance" is invalid because of people like this, who are also Christian. If Christianity caused intolerance among people, then people like the two in the above video would not exist. The religions themselves are not the problem, it's our dumb asses who take it way out of hand.

By condemning religions, you're basically fighting fire with fire, and as a result are being no different than the intolerant religious crazies you are speaking out against.

tl;dnr version: If you're a Christian, accept those opposing your viewpoint and be on your way. If you're an Atheist, do the same. If you're a Buddhist, do the same. If you're a _______ , do the same.

[deftonesfan867]

Wow...I see quite a few people with some close mindedness in here..

That is very unfortunate..

To answer the TT I am a Christian, but no I don't follow a certain denomination.

I don't shove it down others throats and those who say "i hate religion for some big generalization" are just as bad as the people they claim to dislike.

Also Kathy...lying to ourselves?

Really?

I don't believe I'm living a lie, and I use my humanity, not my faith, as a reason to help others around me.

Even if someone doesn't believe in god they shouldn't shun others regardless of what that person may or may not believe.

[Dean]

This is where you're generalizing. You may remember from a previous religions thread that I am also an Atheist. However, I like to show religious people the tolerance that I expect from them.

Here's a video a friend of mine in college found (my friend is the first guy speaking, the second guy is the original video he found).

The title of the video is "Dear Atheists and Homosexuals: I Am Sorry" It is a young Christian apologizing for the people you were referring to Kathy, those that condemn others just because they disagree with Christian beliefs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eetk35H_LKI

The argument that "Christianity (or any religion) causes intolerance" is invalid because of people like this, who are also Christian. If Christianity caused intolerance among people, then people like the two in the above video would not exist. The religions themselves are not the problem, it's our dumb asses who take it way out of hand.

By condemning religions, you're basically fighting fire with fire, and as a result are being no different than the intolerant religious crazies you are speaking out against.

tl;dnr version: If you're a Christian, accept those opposing your viewpoint and be on your way. If you're an Atheist, do the same. If you're a Buddhist, do the same. If you're a _______ , do the same.
I used to be like this. I don't hate religion categorically and I don't think everyone who practises it is a bad person, but I've realised that the simple matter of the fact is that if you're going to give credit to religion for the good it does and then poo poo the idea that it can also be bad, you are having it both ways.

You are not invalidating anything just by posting that video. I could put a video of Fred Phelps or the current Pope here and say the same back at you. Everything else you've said there is pretty much covered already - why give people another excuse to be dickheads, when maybe we wouldn't really need it for anything if we tried going without it? I don't want to condemn anything but it's hard for me to get away from that. Also, criticising religion is not the same as intolerance, at all, and what you say about it here seems like kind of a generalisation in itself.

[travz21]

Well, it seems there's at least a couple good, fair Christians in the world. That doesn't make generalization wrong.

[deftonesfan867]

Well, it seems there's at least a couple good, fair Christians in the world. That doesn't make generalization wrong.

It does make it wrong.

It goes both ways.

[Xero21]

Also, criticising religion is not the same as intolerance, at all, and what you say about it here seems like kind of a generalisation in itself.

Yes, it is. You're telling a group of people their way is wrong and yours is right. Just because your way of thinking is more scientifically provable, does not mean you should immediately cast off everything else.

For every reason you can give as to why God cannot exist, someone can easily come back with some unexplainable phenomenon that science cannot prove, as a reason as to why God must exist. For every example you give of a "bad" Christian, someone can give you an example of a "good" Christian.

By condemning Christians as wrong, you are basically doing the same thing they do when they condemn an Atheist to Hell (condemn an Atheist as wrong). How is what I'm saying a generalization? What I'm saying is that everyone has their own beliefs, and that everyone should keep it to their fucking selves and not force what you believe onto other people.

Atheists do this just as much as religious people do. They just feel like they have more of a right to do so because the evidence for their position is more empirical, whereas Christianity and religion is *faith* based. It's not supposed to be provable - that's the point.

I'm not ignoring the bad things religion causes. I HATE when religious people try to shove their beliefs down peoples throats, HATE when they condemn people for disagreeing, HATE the violence that comes from it, etc.

But that does NOT mean I should hate the religions themselves, or generalize and condemn ALL religious people. The religions themselves preach humility and peace. What I HATE are the IDIOTS who take it too far.

It's all individual. Fred Phelps does not make me hate Christianity, Fred Phelps makes me hate Fred Phelps for his ignorance.

If I had the power, I would make all religion disappear from the Earth. I believe we can be good people without it, and a lot of violence in the world would cease. However, that is not happening anytime soon. So rather than spew hate at the religious, I make judgments about people on an individual basis, and go on about my business. What I'm saying is the exact opposite of a generalization.

[deftonesfan867]

Generalized Christian: I hate atheist and if you don't believe then you're a bad person!

Generalized Athiest: I hate god and religion so everyone who believes as such are bad people with no intelligence!

See how it works there?

[BlackedOut]

If There was no Religion, It would be better, because people would be more afraid of dying, Which stops RELIGIOUS violence.

[deftonesfan867]

If There was no Religion, It would be better, because people would be more afraid of dying, Which stops RELIGIOUS violence.

/facepalm.

[BlackedOut]

/facepalm.

It wouldn't stop all violence

[deftonesfan867]

I'm not afraid to die.

When my time comes it comes, but that doesn't mean I support killing innocent people.

[+ / –]

Generalized Christian: I hate atheist and if you don't believe then you're a bad person!

Generalized Athiest: I hate god and religion so everyone who believes as such are bad people with no intelligence!

See how it works there?

Jesus, both of these guys need to work on their grammar.

[Dean]

Yes, it is. You're telling a group of people their way is wrong and yours is right. Just because your way of thinking is more scientifically provable, does not mean you should immediately cast off everything else.
Yeah, what you're describing there is people disagreeing, not showing intolerance. If they can't take it, boo fucking hoo. Your views on religion are your choice and you deal with the consequences, ie the possibility that not everyone shares your beliefs. Getting worked up at that is just as intolerant.


For every reason you can give as to why God cannot exist, someone can easily come back with some unexplainable phenomenon that science cannot prove, as a reason as to why God must exist.
Try me.


For every example you give of a "bad" Christian, someone can give you an example of a "good" Christian.
Exactly.


By condemning Christians as wrong, you are basically doing the same thing they do when they condemn an Atheist to Hell (condemn an Atheist as wrong). How is what I'm saying a generalization? What I'm saying is that everyone has their own beliefs, and that everyone should keep it to their fucking selves and not force what you believe onto other people.
You are generalising anyone who is critical of religion as intolerant, although I guess that isn't a generalisation as much as just confusing intolerance with people disagreeing.


Atheists do this just as much as religious people do. They just feel like they have more of a right to do so because the evidence for their position is more empirical, whereas Christianity and religion is *faith* based. It's not supposed to be provable - that's the point.
And I can question it if I want. They can question me trying to base my life on reason and what I'm sure is real if they want.


I'm not ignoring the bad things religion causes. I HATE when religious people try to shove their beliefs down peoples throats, HATE when they condemn people for disagreeing, HATE the violence that comes from it, etc.

But that does NOT mean I should hate the religions themselves, or generalize and condemn ALL religious people. The religions themselves preach humility and peace. What I HATE are the IDIOTS who take it too far.

It's all individual. Fred Phelps does not make me hate Christianity, Fred Phelps makes me hate Fred Phelps for his ignorance.

If I had the power, I would make all religion disappear from the Earth. I believe we can be good people without it, and a lot of violence in the world would cease. However, that is not happening anytime soon. So rather than spew hate at the religious, I make judgments about people on an individual basis, and go on about my business. What I'm saying is the exact opposite of a generalization.
That's what I do too. The thing is though, the stupid parts of it go all the way to the top in some cases, and I'm not just talking about fringe groups, and there's still plenty of shitty backwards stuff in religious texts that people still take seriously. So it's hard for me to say "brilliant, religion is great!" when someone does something good, then turn around and say "oh, never mind, they're just extremists and nutcases who no one can possibly take seriously" whenever someone does something bad. I'm sure I said earlier in this thread - you have to take the bad with the good. You aren't generalising but you're kind of having it both ways if you fully acknowledge one and ignore the other.

[travz21]

Generalized Christian: I hate atheist and if you don't believe then you're a bad person!

Generalized Athiest: I hate god and religion so everyone who believes as such are bad people with no intelligence!

See how it works there?

Yeah, but it's mostly true. I have no problem with people saying these things because most Christians are like this and most atheists are like this. Generalization is a healthy instinct. I'm glad my ancestors didn't give tigers the chance to prove if they are actually different from other tigers. Killing it or running away seems better than going up to it and seeing if it could be tame.


Actually, most atheists probably aren't like that. But I don't care either way. People can say whatever they want and it doesn't change anything.

[Tomozaurus]

No and absolutely not. I am fairly heavily against organised religion.

[jedibeaner]

I guess I am a Deist.

[Doris The Spider]

I do believe in God. I'm a proud Catholic.
I have only gone to church like 5 times in the past year but I have thought about going back. I don't know if I would call myself religious. I wouldn't say I'm not religious at all. I still consider myself Catholic and I still wear my crucifix and I still celebrate religious holidays.

[iamsatan]

Sour grapes from being cast out of heaven?

trololol

[travz21]

I do believe in God. I'm a proud Catholic.
I have only gone to church like 5 times in the past year but I have thought about going back. I don't know if I would call myself religious. I wouldn't say I'm not religious at all. I still consider myself Catholic and I still wear my crucifix and I still celebrate religious holidays.

This is a very confusing paragraph haha.

[Benjamin]

It seems that on a daily basis I go back and forth with this issue.

I guess if people need to use religion to have a purpose in life and/or guidelines to live their lives, then so be it. But some of us can live life happily without it. The general purpose of Religion is great, but like someone said earlier, there are too many idiots that take it too far. Religion has also caused countless wars that were fought for silly purposes.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

If There was no Religion, It would be better, because people would be more afraid of dying, Which stops RELIGIOUS violence.

Well wouldn't we love to live in world where there is no violence? Sadly, whether people like it nor not religion will always exist because of the cultural influence it has on a sociological aspect. I don't like the fact that religion causes so many conflicts, but also religion has a positive side. Not everyone is an extremist in their religion and not all religions have their extremists. I am a Catholic by birth, even though I don't follow the religion fully I do believe there is an entity above, just not one.

I think people tend to come along with the subject of religion saying "fuck that shit" with evidence only based on the negative side of it. But that be said about a lot of other things, everything has its negative side but also a positive side. And people tend to exaggerate on the negatives of religion.

[Benjamin]

Well wouldn't we love to live in world where there is no violence? Sadly, whether people like it nor not religion will always exist because of the cultural influence it has on a sociological aspect. I don't like the fact that religion causes so many conflicts, but also religion has a positive side. Not everyone is an extremist in their religion and not all religions have their extremists. I am a Catholic by birth, even though I don't follow the religion fully I do believe there is an entity above, just not one.

I think people tend to come along with the subject of religion saying "fuck that shit" with evidence only based on the negative side of it. But that be said about a lot of other things, everything has its negative side but also a positive side. And people tend to exaggerate on the negatives of religion.

Yeah, I definitely agree that Religion has good things going for it. It helps motivate people to live their lives in a good way.

[Doris The Spider]

This is a very confusing paragraph haha.

lol sorry.

[Dean]

Well wouldn't we love to live in world where there is no violence? Sadly, whether people like it nor not religion will always exist because of the cultural influence it has on a sociological aspect. I don't like the fact that religion causes so many conflicts, but also religion has a positive side. Not everyone is an extremist in their religion and not all religions have their extremists. I am a Catholic by birth, even though I don't follow the religion fully I do believe there is an entity above, just not one.

I think people tend to come along with the subject of religion saying "fuck that shit" with evidence only based on the negative side of it. But that be said about a lot of other things, everything has its negative side but also a positive side. And people tend to exaggerate on the negatives of religion.
Is the current pope an extremist? Because according to him homosexuality and contraception are sins, but he also seems to think that actually being a sex offender is a-okay if you're part of the clergy. In that case it's bullshit that goes right to the top of one of the biggest denominations of one of the biggest religions, and that's just in the present day.

[Doris The Spider]

Is the current pope an extremist? Because according to him homosexuality and contraception are sins, but he also seems to think that actually being a sex offender is a-okay if you're part of the clergy. In that case it's bullshit that goes right to the top of one of the biggest denominations of one of the biggest religions, and that's just in the present day.
The Catholic Church believes that homosexuality and contraception are sins. Although, I am Catholic I don't believe this. But, no, the pope isn't an extremeist. And did he ever say that sex offenders are ok? The Catholic church does not condone that even though it happens a lot.

[travz21]

If the boys they are playing with are under 18 it's not gay.

[Dean]

The Catholic Church believes that homosexuality and contraception are sins. Although, I am Catholic I don't believe this. But, no, the pope isn't an extremeist. And did he ever say that sex offenders are ok? The Catholic church does not condone that even though it happens a lot.
He hasn't actually said "sex offenders are ok", no, but the guy's been covering up a lot of stuff along those lines, so there's that. It goes back a long way in that church though.

And I just want to make it 100% clear that I'm not trying to slate all of religion here. I'm just trying to make the point that not every shit thing done in the name of religion can just be put down to extremists.

[AnTeC]

But the parts before that though were passed on orally. Look at the book of Genesis: one part says Noah brought two of each kind of animal onto the Ark. Another part says he brought seven. That's from when the poor scribe didn't know which version of events to write down.






















Not to mention that translation by itself is enough of a giant change.

Can u list the reference?

Nvm I found it
Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,
Genesis 7:2

I think it speaks for itself, maybe u heard it wrong from someone who told you?

[Avo]

Can u list the reference?

Nvm I found it
Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,
Genesis 7:2
Wait, I don't really want to get into this debate but how does one differentiate between a "clean" and "unclean" animal?

[Dean]

It's just all this arbitrary stuff. Animals that are "unclean" are the ones that aren't kosher for the people that follow those rules, I think.

[AnTeC]

Read Leviticus chapter 11 if u would like. It answers your question

[F-ck Casey]

her body is a temple
i don't give a fuck
i'm athiest

[Anya]

I am Jewish but I've never felt all that religious. I don't mind my Jewish faith though because I enjoy learning about it, I think it's an interesting religion and all. But I've always felt more agnostic. I have a wait-and-see kind of attitude. I think it's because my family has mixed religions, my Dad is Jewish and my Mom is Greek Orthodox Christian (they converted me if anyone was wondering why I didn't take my mothers religion like you're supposed to) and we've always been very open to learning about other religions and the possibilities that are out there, all the while celebrating each of my parents beliefs during holidays and what not.

I don't believe nor disbelieve if God is real. It's definitely a possibility to me.. but I know there are so many more, and ones that also sound more convincing to me than God does.

[BlackedOut]

I Think People should move on from Religion, All it does is fill in Gaps with "magical" gods. And People can have morals (And by Morals, I don't mean blame everything that you don't agree with, on the Devil) And not believe in God or Religion.

[deftonesfan867]

I Think People should move on from Religion, All it does is fill in Gaps with "magical" gods. And People can have morals (And by Morals, I don't mean blame everything that you don't agree with, on the Devil) And not believe in God or Religion.

Honestly was it wrong with faith and beliefs?

It's not dangerous.

I don't hurt anyone by being a Christian nor do I hurt myself.

What the real danger would be is telling people they aren't allowed to believe in anything and that religion is outlawed.

[BlackedOut]

Honestly was it wrong with faith and beliefs?

It's not dangerous.

I don't hurt anyone by being a Christian nor do I hurt myself.

What the real danger would be is telling people they aren't allowed to believe in anything and that religion is outlawed.

Never said it should be outlawed, I think people should still be able to do it, But I think more people need to see the light.

And I know not all Christians are dangerous or anything, Just the extreme ones.

[Todd]

Read Leviticus chapter 11 if u would like. It answers your question

Who decides this crap? Why is it relevant today?

In an age where we know how, when and why bacteria grows on meat and how to cook it to the correct temperature so it is safe to eat, why are the laws in some 5,000 year old book written by men who knew nothing about food safety relevant at all in today's society? A pig is considered dirty by ancient man so we're not supposed to eat them, but cows are clean? Last time I checked, cows don't bathe, brush their teeth 2 times a day or wipe their ass after taking a shit. I wouldn't eat any animal unless it's properly been cleaned and cooked, and since we know how to clean and cook a pig, then I say, bring on the bacon!

[AnTeC]

I don't wanna get all preachy here to u guys cuz I know that's not what most of u want, and I'm not trying to force any of this on u guys.

The clean and unclean animals were mainly meant as being sacrifices for their sins, but after Jesus died on the cross, we no longer have to make sacrifices, even though the catholic church still does this and I disagree with it Because again, He died for all our sins, making it unneccesary for us to offer "clean" animal sacrifices.

[Avo]

Wait, so Christians killed animals for their sins...meaning like for breaking the Ten Commandments or something? I don't want to misinterpret or anything, but this is making no sense.
...Damn, I'm getting sucked in lol.

[AnTeC]

Any sins, think of what u did today, I'm sure there's a few in there, lol

[travz21]

When I write the new Bible, leaving the seat up will not be a sin like it is today. Going to hell for that just doesn't seem right.

[AnTeC]

Leaving the seat up?

Who says ur going to hell for sinning?
If that were true then everyone would be going to hell.

[travz21]

What if everyone actually is? What if only people who believe in God go to hell, while other non-religious folk just die and rot happily ever after?

[AnTeC]

i guess i could tell u to read John 3;16, but you'll probably say how can i believe that. So thats where the faith comes in my friend.
Ive been going to a Christian school all my life now(I'm 16), and ive been brought up in an environment where i go to church every Sunday, and i go to the chapel in my school every Thursday. I used to , not want to go to church at all, i figured it was boring and pointless. But then i got a little bit older and actually started listening to what was being said and all the facts that pointed to Christianity and away from all the others religions or not believing in God at all were overwhelming. If you guys have more questions you can look up Christian apologetics, its pretty hard to deny whats being said there, but for now im out because i dont wanna sound anymore preachy then i am already, and i especially dont wanna come across as saying "My religion is better than yours".
I'll leave you guys with this, and this is pointed mainly to the members who dont believe in a god or atheist.
The Mona Lisa, one of the greatest paintings ever created had a creator right? it didnt just come into exsistence correct?
Or the computer your using right now, it had a creator right? it dint just come into existence correct?
So then how can the universe and everything in it( The earth, human beings etc..), which is exponentially more complex than the mona lisa or your computer, not have a Creator.
I'll catch u guys later, oh and look into that apologetics stuff its pretty amazing.
later.

[Todd]

Any sins, think of what u did today, I'm sure there's a few in there, lol

Woke up, went to work, went home, went out to dinner with my parents, came home and watched a baseball game, then went to bed. Nope, no sins there. In fact, I've never sinned. Never hurt anybody, never lied, never stolen. I'm not a sinner.

[Sucre06]

Yeah, I believe in God, I'm orthodox "

[Jen]

Woke up, went to work, went home, went out to dinner with my parents, came home and watched a baseball game, then went to bed. Nope, no sins there. In fact, I've never sinned. Never hurt anybody, never lied, never stolen. I'm not a sinner.

I bet you have broken at least one of the Ten Commandments Todd, because everyone has disrespected their parents at least once in their lives. That makes you a sinner.

[Todd]

Define disrespect. I don't agree with them all the time but I have never done anything that I would consider disrespectful.

[+ / –]

All I want to say is that if you're a woman and are Christian, then you're not allowed to teach men.

[ThaHandyman]

Honestly was it wrong with faith and beliefs?

It's not dangerous.

I don't hurt anyone by being a Christian nor do I hurt myself.

What the real danger would be is telling people they aren't allowed to believe in anything and that religion is outlawed.

This.


Woke up, went to work, went home, went out to dinner with my parents, came home and watched a baseball game, then went to bed. Nope, no sins there. In fact, I've never sinned. Never hurt anybody, never lied, never stolen. I'm not a sinner.

Every man has lusted. Every man.


All I want to say is that if you're a woman and are Christian, then you're not allowed to teach men.

A chick spoke at our campus service, I know this is not sunday service but women speak all the time.

[+ / –]

A chick spoke at our campus service, I know this is not sunday service but women speak all the time.

2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. 2:12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

1 Timothy 2:12

Your move.

[El Muerto]

Woke up, went to work, went home, went out to dinner with my parents, came home and watched a baseball game, then went to bed. Nope, no sins there. In fact, I've never sinned. Never hurt anybody, never lied, never stolen. I'm not a sinner.

Oh come on, you've got to be kidding me? I only need to kill somebody to collect all 10 :lol:

[F-ck Casey]

lol, todd isn't a sinner. okay, guy.

[travz21]

Man, I wish I was religious so I could worry about doing things that aren't that bad to begin with. I wish I could read a really ancient book and take it for face value, too. A book that actually isn't that ancient because it keeps changing when science checkmates parts of it. But it keeps all the old, unbelievable stuff intact. That would be a cool world to live in.

[F-ck Casey]

Man, I wish I was religious so I could worry about doing things that aren't that bad to begin with. I wish I could read a really ancient book and take it for face value, too. A book that actually isn't that ancient because it keeps changing when science checkmates parts of it. But it keeps all the old, unbelievable stuff intact. That would be a cool world to live in.

Might I invite you the wonderful world of the Bible Belt? CHURCHES AND BANKS AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE.

[Benjamin]

I'll leave you guys with this, and this is pointed mainly to the members who dont believe in a god or atheist.
The Mona Lisa, one of the greatest paintings ever created had a creator right? it didnt just come into exsistence correct?
Or the computer your using right now, it had a creator right? it dint just come into existence correct?
So then how can the universe and everything in it( The earth, human beings etc..), which is exponentially more complex than the mona lisa or your computer, not have a Creator.


Is that your best argument? It seems to be for a lot of religious people.

So...if God created us, then who created God? And who created the being that created God?

[Dean]

The answer to that is that God just existed forever, I guess. But I don't see why that makes any more sense than saying the universe just exists without being created.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Yes everything has a beginning, and God had a beginning as well. So what created God is like asking what created carbon in being the one fundamental element that has scientifically created everything in the universe. If you believe in science and not in religion, answer me this, if carbon is the basis of life and has created everything, what created carbon?

Yeah you scientific hotshots aren't so pretty now. :lol:

[Theazninvasion68]

Yes everything has a beginning, and God had a beginning as well. So what created God is like asking what created carbon in being the one fundamental element that has scientifically created everything in the universe. If you believe in science and not in religion, answer me this, if carbon is the basis of life and has created everything, what created carbon?

Yeah you scientific hotshots aren't so pretty now. :lol:

You could even ask this.

Why is there something, rather than nothing?

[travz21]

Carbon comes from lighter elements during fusion and supernovae, I believe. Same with the other elements heavier than Hydrogen.

Then you can ask where Hydrogen came from. There's always going to be unknowns in science. We don't claim to know everything. We just use logic from the things we observe and piece things together. That doesn't mean that filling the voids with religion and saying everything unknown is made from God is the right answer. Not knowing stuff is ok. Which is why not knowing what came before the Big Bang isn't a huge deal. Yeah, we really want to know, but we're not going to try to figure it out until we start getting some evidence. We're not going to make things up to ease our conscience. As it is, we have no idea why the universe is. And that's fucking fascinating to me.

[Dean]

Yes everything has a beginning, and God had a beginning as well. So what created God is like asking what created carbon in being the one fundamental element that has scientifically created everything in the universe. If you believe in science and not in religion, answer me this, if carbon is the basis of life and has created everything, what created carbon?

Yeah you scientific hotshots aren't so pretty now. :lol:
First, carbon was formed by nuclear fusion in stars.

Second, if you're a believer in science over faith you don't pretend to know everything. That's the whole point of science. Trying to find out, instead of settling for explanations that don't actually make logical sense like how there must be a God because everything in the universe is too complex to have just happened, only God himself wasn't created despite how being omnipotent basically makes him as complex as it gets, because IT'S GOD LOL.


You could even ask this.

Why is there something, rather than nothing?
http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/why_is_there_something_rather_than_nothing

[esaul17]

I find it weird people ask "why is there something rather than nothing?" in defence of God. That something seems to very much include God anyway.

[+ / –]

So I take it the Christians in here believe dinosaurs never existed?

[travz21]

Scientists planted that evidence there. And we all know carbon dating isn't reliable and can be altered.

[Benjamin]

Scientists planted that evidence there. And we all know carbon dating isn't reliable and can be altered.

Ah, yes. And let's not forget what our good ole friend Bill O'Reilly said a few months back about how tides work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--es4FGwKQg
Such perfect logic, right?

BTW, so much win on Colbert's part, LOL

[+ / –]

Scientists planted that evidence there. And we all know carbon dating isn't reliable and can be altered.

Which is why Uranium-lead dating is the way to go.

[ThaHandyman]

I believe in Dinosaurs? And yes, carbon dating gets very inaccurate the older the object is.

[+ / –]

I believe in Dinosaurs? And yes, carbon dating gets very inaccurate the older the object is.


2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. 2:12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.

1 Timothy 2:12

Your move.

I need your opinion about women teaching men again.

And believing in dinosaurs means the Bible is wrong.

[Theazninvasion68]

I believe that dinosuars existed. There's lots of proof to this.

I was adding to Sarah's question at the end of her post. Instead of just asking what created carbon, posting the question of why there is existence is a question she could've also asked.

I've already stated my belief, and I don't intend on staying in this thread too long.

Esual: Yeah, I noticed that the question seems to be used quite often as well. It does seem to assumed the answer, but then again, everyone does happen to ask the question once or twice in their life time.

Dean: Thanks. So why do Bosons and Fermions have the properties as such? Why aren't they something else but similar? I don't have an answer to these, nor am I looking for one (Since.. well, lets just say that I'm not only not very well-read in quantum theory and mathematics, and that it's also way over my head :lol:. I study people, not math. )

[Trumtram]

i'm a big fan of believing in fairytales and god and stuff, you know, the kind of thing that watches over me when i feel bad and fail at life.

on a serious note, feel offended or not, religion is one of the worst things of mankind. while it helps a good portion of people by having a friend in tough times it caused so many victims because of different believes. i like to imagine a world with just, well, people? but then again i love to live after a book which guides me through life...
it is a relict of evolution and i really hope that science will kick its ass one day.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

i'm a big fan of believing in fairytales and god and stuff, you know, the kind of thing that watches over me when i feel bad and fail at life.

on a serious note, feel offended or not, religion is one of the worst things of mankind. while it helps a good portion of people by having a friend in tough times it caused so many victims because of different believes. i like to imagine a world with just, well, people? but then again i love to live after a book which guides me through life...
it is a relict of evolution and i really hope that science will kick its ass one day.

I can see how the negative attributes of religion can be exaggerated. But when was the last time that science brought people together in the time of despair? That's the great thing about religion is that it has this power to bring people together in the saddest of times.

Both science and religion have their questionable timelines and information, but religion holds so much more over science any day given. Science has even proven that Jesus existed.

[travz21]

Are the negative attributes really exaggerated though?


People who aren't religious help people in need because they know it's the right thing to do. They don't need other reasons.

Religion is for people who do need another reason to put them into action. Do you think religion is better than science and logic because it helps people band together who wouldn't have done so on their own? That seems almost backwards to me. It makes those people look worse for needing to rely on something to make them a better person.

[Mitch]

I can see how the negative attributes of religion can be exaggerated. But when was the last time that science brought people together in the time of despair? That's the great thing about religion is that it has this power to bring people together in the saddest of times.

Both science and religion have their questionable timelines and information, but religion holds so much more over science any day given. Science has even proven that Jesus existed.

In what context do you mean religion holds so much more over science? I fail to see how it does.

[Trumtram]

religion was used as a desperate attempt to describe the stuff that no one could understand, too. yet it still is. since then science did way more to help us understanding our world and gave us explanations instead of "hey, god did this, what else is there to say?". there weren't any valid proofs for creationism but more and more against it. just be patient :).

[+ / –]

I can see how the negative attributes of religion can be exaggerated. But when was the last time that science brought people together in the time of despair? That's the great thing about religion is that it has this power to bring people together in the saddest of times.

Both science and religion have their questionable timelines and information, but religion holds so much more over science any day given. Science has even proven that Jesus existed.

Yeah, religion brought us such great things as the Crusades.

Science has had way more of an enlightenment period than any religion ever will.

And according to I Timothy, you shouldn't be 'teaching' us that religion is better. You're supposed to be silent and submissive.

Also, Jesus isn't white. Just thought you should know.

[Dean]

Dean: Thanks. So why do Bosons and Fermions have the properties as such? Why aren't they something else but similar? I don't have an answer to these, nor am I looking for one (Since.. well, lets just say that I'm not only not very well-read in quantum theory and mathematics, and that it's also way over my head :lol:. I study people, not math. )
Well, the link I posted is probably the best answer we'll get from science haha. I just think things are the way they are because this is just how things have happened to turn out, and that there's no probably no spiritual purpose. But I think you can still find a meaning of life even if you believe that.

[Todd]

Science has even proven that Jesus existed.

Not even the most extreme Atheist is going to argue that Jesus didn't exist. He did exist, it's actually one of the only few factual things in the bible. But Jesus wasn't born to a virgin mother, he didn't have magical healing powers, he couldn't walk on water or turn water into wine, and he didn't come back from the dead.

I have no problem with Jesus, in fact, I think he was a good guy. He taught to care about the poor and the sick and all that. It's not Jesus who I don't like, it's his followers who scare the shit out of me. If people were more Christlike and less Christian I might not have such a big problem with religion.

[+ / –]

I personally like Jesus Christ because he was Buddhist. And no, I'm not kidding.

[El Muerto]

Science has even proven that Jesus existed.

Wow, you just made that up and said science proved it, didn't you? Please check your facts before you get into an argument.

[Dean]

I've never really looked into that, but I thought it was pretty much proven that Jesus did exist, whether or not he was literally the son of God and performed miracles.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Wow, you just made that up and said science proved it, didn't you? Please check your facts before you get into an argument.

But Jesus actually did exist. I can't quote it cos I didn't read it off the net, I saw it in a documentary on tv. He just wasn't what he was made out to be, that's all. I'm not dissing religion by any means.

[Todd]

But Jesus actually did exist. I can't quote it cos I didn't read it off the net, I saw it in a documentary on tv. He just wasn't what he was made out to be, that's all. I'm not dissing religion by any means.

And you're not going to find many Atheists who deny the existence of Jesus.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

And you're not going to find many Atheists who deny the existence of Jesus.

Well. The smart kind anyway.

I'm just saying religion gets more of a bad reputation than deserved. I mean, yes I know it has caused wars, I know that it has caused many illogical idiots to be in government, annoying Bible preachers knocking at your door while you're trying to have dinner, etc. but at the end of the day, I do believe in religion over science, because that's my faith and my beliefs. I don't believe I should be dictated to to what I preach and practice, and that I should be allowed by my own faith and which I am. But mind you, I don't follow one specific religion.

[travz21]

We need some Bill O'Reilly videos in here to lighten this thread up.

[El Muerto]

Wow, I'm dumb. I was sure I read Sarah's post as "Science has even proven that Jesus never existed." That's why I was like WTF. My apologies.

I agree that he existed and that he was probably just a normal man.

[Benjamin]

We need some Bill O'Reilly videos in here to lighten this thread up.

Are my posts invisible to you? Go back a page back, LOL.

[travz21]

We need moar!

[Harlz]

Jesus was a real dude, whether or not he was the son of God is pretty irrelevant.
He had some pretty cool things to say, even if they were simple. But ultimately you can't argue with what he said.
So yeah, I'll rock up to church and play guitar in the band every week, cos it's a good message to spread.

On the other hand, I will also be playing Angry Birds every time they do an Old Testament reading...

[Necromorph]

it's his followers who scare the shit out of me. If people were more Christlike and less Christian I might not have such a big problem with religion.

i agree todd.


Jesus was a real dude, whether or not he was the son of God is pretty irrelevant.
He had some pretty cool things to say, even if they were simple. But ultimately you can't argue with what he said.
So yeah, I'll rock up to church and play guitar in the band every week, cos it's a good message to spread.

On the other hand, I will also be playing Angry Birds every time they do an Old Testament reading...

lol. funny.

[Dean]

We need moar!
-CrwFNMUtd8