WikiLeaks

[Derek The Infamous]

Am I the only one who doesn't find Julian Assange a hero, or find what WikiLeaks has done to be a good thing? The amount of American people I've seen racing to this guy's defense, is disgusting. He broke the law, and not only did he break the law, he leaked highly classified and potentially endangering information. I have no sympathy for him at all, and hope he gets severely punished for what he's done. To me, freedom of speech has nothing to do with this. There's a difference between saying anything you like, and blatantly undermining national security.

Thoughts?

[Luke]

I don't think he's a hero (in fact I think he's a total nutjob) but I've always thought it vital that the general public don't just accept what their government and the media present to them. I'm no conspiracy theorist (much of one anyway) and I'm not in favour of anarchy or any of that nonsense, but I am totally in favour of the public knowing the full picture of what their government is up to and more importantly what they're guiding them into. I think it's in the public's interest to know if their government has turned a blind eye to torturing prisoners of war or just how stable relationships with so-called 'allies' actually are among other things.

[Dean]

All I have to say is it's funny how some of the material has actually got as far as being treated as though it's shocking and controversial. Like, someone thinks Silvio Berlusconi is a dick? NO WAY.

[Derek The Infamous]

It's not so much the "shock" factor of the leaks that worries me...it's the potential harm it to do to some of our diplomatic relations with these countries, as well as (in the case of the videotaped killing of a civilian in Iraq) the risks it puts soldiers at overseas through that footage getting into the wrong hands. It's just absolutely reckless of this guy and while I'm all for a transparent government, this is not the way to go about it.

[F-ck Casey]

these documents shouldn't be hidden from the people that put these mongrels in their high up, cushy positions, though. that doesn't just go for americans, it applies to all countries across the globe. citizens in china need to know that their own government attacked google and stole company secrets and are now monitoring private g-mail accounts of people of special interest.

i don't honestly care about this whole thing one way or another, though. he was arrested in sweden connected to some sex crimes, apparently, but that won't stop the machine that is wikileaks.

like luke said, people shouldn't take what their government says at face value. i'll go a step further and say that people NEED to know this information, international relations be damned. i think it's a sad day in our country when protecting the "security" of our nation and relations with other global powers are more important than our own citizens knowing what our government, and others, are really doing.

it's the deaf and dumb leading the blind and dumb.

[El Muerto]

How can you NOT find Assange a hero? He proved just what hypocrites the American officials are (even thought we all know that). And they just confirmed that by accusing him of some made-up bullshit about rape in Sweden from a couple of years ago. And btw, he's not even accused of an actual rape, in Sweden if you say you'll use condom and you don't use it, it is considered a rape, and that's what he's accused of. Come on, someone has to be really, reaaally stupid to believe that.

I guess Hillary would gladly accuse him of undermining the national security of the US, but unfortunately for her and fortunately for the rest of the world, he's not a US citizen.

He said that if they arrest him, he'll release some serious information that would seriously harm the US diplomatic relations, and honestly, I can't wait to see what he's got.



(in the case of the videotaped killing of a civilian in Iraq) the risks it puts soldiers at overseas through that footage getting into the wrong hands

WTF, they shouldn't be killing the innocent civilians in the first place in a country they have nothing to do with. I don't give a shit what happens to motherfuckers who kill civilians.


edit:

P.S.

At the moment wikileaks is located on this adress: http://213.251.145.96/ since all the other sites have been shut down.
If anyone can donate to the site, please do it.

[Timothy]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01774/Assange_1774142c.jpg

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNTIyNjY0OTUzMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTIwNzcy._V1._ SX450_SY359_.jpg

[Agent O]

How can you NOT find Assange a hero? He proved just what hypocrites the American officials are (even thought we all know that). And they just confirmed that by accusing him of some made-up bullshit about rape in Sweden from a couple of years ago. And btw, he's not even accused of an actual rape, in Sweden if you say you'll use condom and you don't use it is considered a rape, and that's what he's accused of. Come on, someone has to be really, reaaally stupid to believe that.

I guess Hillary would gladly accuse him of undermining the national security of the US, but unfortunately for her and fortunately for the rest of the world, he's not a US citizen.

He said that if they arrest him, he'll release some serious information that would seriously harm the US diplomatic relations, and honestly, I can't wait to see what he's got.




WTF, they shouldn't be killing the innocent civilians in the first place in a country they have nothing to do with. I don't give a shit what happens to motherfuckers who kill civilians.


edit:

P.S.

At the moment wikileaks is located on this adress: http://213.251.145.96/ since all the other sites have been shut down.
If anyone can donate to the site, please do it.

My thoughts exactly.

[Ryo Hazuki]

Derek, I'm sorry but I just don't understand your approval of a transparent government and then your disapproval of WikiLeaks. You say that you're for it but just not in the way that it's going about right now. But wouldn't a completely honest transparent government give out the exact information that WikiLeaks does? Citizens would still have access to the information they have now, we'd be in "the know" and others would most definitely be as well. I'm not saying it doesn't matter who gives out the information but really in this the who is sort of irrelevant, see, the information if it SHOULD in fact be put out in the first place and if it is NOT put out when it should be, then there is only one way to go about it. Also to say it is illegal is absolutely up for debate. It's a grey area, it's not black and white. There's no "This is definitely wrong" in this I don't think.

As for my own personal opinion if it should be kept shut down, I haven't really decided on one hand I really hate censorship and on the other I really hate for people to be in danger.

[sotrix]

I'm not a fan of how Wikileaks is a collaborative effort by people all over the world and yet Julian gets all the credit in the media.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Sex charges I understand, treason I don't. There has been calls for him to be trialled in Australia because he is Australian born but I don't think he needs a trial. The person that gave him those classified documents should be done not WikiLeaks. He is a hero for publishing them. By not classifying these documents to the public, the American government in my eyes are more distrustful as ever. I reckon the Freedom of Information Act is in place for a reason and they've denied us, the right to know the truth about military operations etc. I understand that it could fall into the wrong hands, but can't anything be misused and abused?

I'm appalled that our Prime Minister Julia Gilliard supports the American calls to have him persecuted with treason. I thought him being Australian, she would be supportive of the WikiLeaks founder.

[El Muerto]

I'm not a fan of how Wikileaks is a collaborative effort by people all over the world and yet Julian gets all the credit in the media.

Because it's not a collaborative effort. Wikileaks is not like Wikipedia.

[Jeff]

I'm with Derek on this one.
There's a difference between freedom of speech, and potentially harming citizens of multiple countries because someone wants to "stick it to the man" as Assange feels he is doing. These leaks could possibly lead to something extremely dangerous, and I for one would not like to witness World War 3 anytime soon.

[El Muerto]

I'm with Derek on this one.
There's a difference between freedom of speech, and potentially harming citizens of multiple countries because someone wants to "stick it to the man" as Assange feels he is doing. These leaks could possibly lead to something extremely dangerous, and I for one would not like to witness World War 3 anytime soon.

If you don't want war then go on the streets and tell your government to stop the oil plunder they started in the middle east and don't worry about the journalists who are doing their job ;)

[Jeff]

If you don't want war then go on the streets and tell your government to stop the oil plunder they started in the middle east and don't worry about the journalists who are doing their job ;)

Or, we could just prevent sites like Wikileaks from leaking confidential information that could ENDANGER the lives of 100s of millions of people worldwide. There are somethings that are better left kept secret.

[El Muerto]

Or, we could just prevent sites like Wikileaks from leaking confidential information that could ENDANGER the lives of 100s of millions of people worldwide. There are somethings that are better left kept secret.

Or, your government should stop doing and saying things that even now engender the lives of 100s of millions of people worldwide and prevent the need for sites like wikileas. Accept it, the problem is not in Wikileaks, the problem is in your government.

[Jeff]

Or, your government should stop doing and saying things that even now engender the lives of 100s of millions of people worldwide and prevent the need for sites like wikileas. Accept it, the problem is not in Wikileaks, the problem is in your government.

What need for Wikileaks is there? The guy broke the law and you are sitting here praising him.

[El Muerto]

What need for Wikileaks is there? The guy broke the law and you are sitting here praising him.

Why the hell do you care if an Australian citizen broke an American law. I'm pretty sure you broke Serbian laws plenty of times and I'm not asking for your prosecution.

[Jeff]

Why the hell do you care if an Australian citizen broke an American law. I'm pretty sure you broke Serbian laws plenty of times and I'm not asking for your prosecution.

As I said before, the laws that Assange broke could endanger millions of people worldwide. Any Serbian laws I may or may not have broken, aren't going to cause a global conflict that could end up catastrophic.

[El Muerto]

As I said before, the laws that Assange broke could endanger millions of people worldwide. Any Serbian laws I may or may not have broken, aren't going to cause a global conflict that could end up catastrophic.

Oh really? So, why didn't you say anything when Bill Clinton broke the international UN laws and attacked my country or when Bush broke the international UN laws and attacked Afghanistan? Millions of people were endangered in those cases as well, but now that your own ass is on the line you worry about armed conflicts.

And the sad thing is that this will probably lead to new wars, most likely USA attacking some random middle east country to distract its citizens' minds from the Wikileaks affair.

[Avo]

How can you NOT find Assange a hero? He proved just what hypocrites the American officials are (even thought we all know that). And they just confirmed that by accusing him of some made-up bullshit about rape in Sweden from a couple of years ago. And btw, he's not even accused of an actual rape, in Sweden if you say you'll use condom and you don't use it, it is considered a rape, and that's what he's accused of. Come on, someone has to be really, reaaally stupid to believe that.

I guess Hillary would gladly accuse him of undermining the national security of the US, but unfortunately for her and fortunately for the rest of the world, he's not a US citizen.

He said that if they arrest him, he'll release some serious information that would seriously harm the US diplomatic relations, and honestly, I can't wait to see what he's got.




WTF, they shouldn't be killing the innocent civilians in the first place in a country they have nothing to do with. I don't give a shit what happens to motherfuckers who kill civilians.


edit:

P.S.

At the moment wikileaks is located on this adress: http://213.251.145.96/ since all the other sites have been shut down.
If anyone can donate to the site, please do it.
This. The American government's fucked up, and always has been, so they get what they deserve.

[El Muerto]

This. The American government's fucked up, and always has been, so they get what they deserve.

Not always, I'd say after WW2 everything's gone downhill, because they realized how great a generator of income war can be. I studied American history a lot and I'm pretty sure the Founding Fathers would be ashamed of American leaders in the last 50 years. Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, they were all honest people with a vision of a new independent country that will stay clear of future conflicts and wars, and look what's going on just 200 years after them..

[Louis]

Oh really? So, why didn't you say anything when Bill Clinton broke the international UN laws and attacked my country or when Bush broke the international UN laws and attacked Afghanistan? Millions of people were endangered in those cases as well, but now that your own ass is on the line you worry about armed conflicts.

And the sad thing is that this will probably lead to new wars, most likely USA attacking some random middle east country to distract its citizens' minds from the Wikileaks affair.

I can't see the U.S. Government doing something as stupid as you think it will, like attacking another country for the sake of distracting them from WikiLeaks. My government may not be the best, nor is it the most efficient and brilliant, but it's not completely and entirely stupid.

[El Muerto]

I can't see the U.S. Government doing something as stupid as you think it will, like attacking another country for the sake of distracting them from WikiLeaks. My government may not be the best, nor is it the most efficient and brilliant, but it's not completely and entirely stupid.

It was an intentional hyperbole, but believe it or not that's how all governments work. When something unpleasant gets too much public attention, they do whatever they can to redirect it somewhere else.

[Louis]

It was an intentional hyperbole, but believe it or not that's how all governments work. When something unpleasant gets too much public attention, they do whatever they can to redirect it somewhere else.

I have a hard time believing that. That's a very big generalization you're making.

[sotrix]

Because it's not a collaborative effort. Wikileaks is not like Wikipedia.

"WikiLeaks is an independent global group of people with a long standing dedication to the idea of a free press and the improved transparency in society that comes from this. The group includes accredited journalists, software programmers, network engineers, mathematicians and others."

http://wikileaks.ch.nyud.net/about.html

[Gloomy Mushroom]

It was an intentional hyperbole, but believe it or not that's how all governments work. When something unpleasant gets too much public attention, they do whatever they can to redirect it somewhere else.

i.e. the Vietnam War. It came under so much scrutiny and protest, that the US Government tried distracting the public from the events in Saigon etc because their scare tactics weren't working for shit. That's why it was named a Media War. But I do agree with everything that you have just said.

[F-ck Casey]

I'm with Derek on this one.
There's a difference between freedom of speech, and potentially harming citizens of multiple countries because someone wants to "stick it to the man" as Assange feels he is doing. These leaks could possibly lead to something extremely dangerous, and I for one would not like to witness World War 3 anytime soon.

Grow up. I hardly think Assange is simply trying to "stick it to the man" by releasing these documents. We vote these monsters into office, we have a right to know what our government is really doing.

You can be a patriot without totally getting on all fours and begging for it from your country, you know. Which is what you're basically doing. I'll probably get in trouble for saying that, because anything that isn't worded exactly right on this website gets criticism, but I don't give a fuck. Your way of thinking is so one way and linear that it's quite disgusting. No need for WikiLeaks? Explain me to me why you think the government should just get away unscathed doing things like this. This isn't American at all, what Obama's administration is doing to this man and this website. It's quite unfair, actually. And it has EVERYTHING to do with freedom of speech and a free press.

This is fucking horseshit and you know it, deep down. If we get attacked because of anything that has been released by WikiLeaks, we deserve it. Don't you see that? We aren't infallible, we have to pay for what we've done. We payed the price on 9/11, but we continued to ignore it when EVERYONE could have been better off if the United States would have just recognized where these people are coming from and just wanted to be heard.

This conversation makes me sick to my stomach, I can't believe people would think what this guy doing is anything less than being a patriot. I won't be back into this thread, that's for sure.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot. Guess what? WikiLeaks doesn't release anything that may, "compromise intelligence-gathering programs aimed at hostile countries, or disclose information about the capabilities of American weapons that could be helpful to an enemy". That's sure sticking it to the man, huh?

I guess George W. Bush was "sticking it to the man" (himself?) when he intentionally leaked the identity of an undercover CIA agent, right? Where was the outrage when the fucking President lied to the country and started a war that got more people killed than WikiLeaks ever could?

[Theazninvasion68]

I don't see how this guy can be called a hero.

For Stealing classified documents.
For Releasing these documents publicly.
With the Knowledge that this is possibly (and is most likely) demeaning a Nation.

You know who does similar things? Facebook. We put data in, in knowledge that it is safe from other companies, and it is not to be released pubically. When we found out that Facebook was giving away personal information, you know what happened? People raged and protested against Facebook for giving away our personal information, fully knowing that another company could possibly abuse (or use/sell/etc..) to another party, and for the gain of money. Hm. While it isn't 100% mirror match, the idea is the still the same. Why is it that we praise Wikileaks, but bash Facebook for almost essentially the same actions?

Does Wikileaks (For these cables specifically) threaten lives of people? No. But if it causes increased tension between friendly nations, and the US suffers economically or socially, that is harm. No, not harm physically, but harm economically, or socially. It's the fact that information doesn't directly kill people, its the effects and perceptions of then-on-out that will strike down a person, or raise someone.

Now, I'm not saying the information isn't good. It probably is a treasure trove or a gold-mine of information. But Assange, imo, is not a hero, nor a patriot.

[El Muerto]

Oh, the irony:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/12/152465.htm

[Niklas]

I think that WikiLeaks is THE most important tool in Journalism and Free Speech to date. I dont consider Assange a Hero, but a very brave man. Bringing up Secrets from Governments all around the World is a kick in the teeth of EVERY Politician on this Planet. They are not safe anymore. The Public will not be longer fooled around with and played with, if WikiLeaks continues to be what they are: the most needed Website on the Internet.

Sure, the Point of Breaking the Law has to be considered. But they wouldnt have to do this, if the Governments were open and true to the people that voted them, gave them their trust with a Vote in the Polling Booth.

And most of the Documents released last and this week are not really that dangerous. Westerwelle is arrogant? Tell me something the Public hasnt already known for sure here in Germany. Putin maybe had something to do with the Lutwinenjenko Assasination? Yeah, hes as corrupt as Berlusconi, but EVERYBODY knows these things. WikiLeaks has the Guts to stand up for Freedom of Mind and the responsible Citizen. Not like other Forms of Media which are Controlled by the Gov.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

I'm a very Freedom of Information Act and anti-censorship person myself. But alas, Casey has stolen the words from my mouth. If the US really wants to make friends, they shouldn't have talked behind their backs, in which by the looks of things that's what the US has done. I absolutely do not have anything against the American people, but I clearly am starting to have a grudge against yet another transparent government. There's a big line between treason and having the right for the public to know the truth about the government that runs their country. Relating to something El Meurto said earlier about Clinton invading his country, of course, who's related to him and is in power? Oh his wife. Hillary and Bill think the same when it comes to things undermining the American security so they can continue to tell the American public to dream on about living in a white picket dream.

People have the right to know what happens behind closed doors, especially if they are the people mentioned in secret documents. I'll tell you that I'll be pissed if someone was writing reports on me and not telling me.

[El Muerto]

A couple of recent news:

Thank God Australians are thinking straight (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/08/assange-security-breaches-kevin-rudd)

If Obama can get it for doing absolutely nothing, why not give it to Assange who's actually doing something good (http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/world/Russia-moots-Nobel-Prize-for-Wikileaks-founder-Assange/Article1-636039.aspx)

Can't touch him (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20025040-503543.html)

So you'd rather things like this remained unknown? (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20025055-503543.html)

[lpboarder]

It's just absolutely reckless of this guy and while I'm all for a transparent government, this is not the way to go about it.

This.

And with the hacking of MasterCard as a response to their funding being cutoff, it shows that Assange's and his toads' "activism" are not for the good that they supposedly touting in my opinion. Just a bunch of fringe lefties who are not getting their way so "they are going to fight the man" and exact some revenge.

[El Muerto]

This.

And with the hacking of MasterCard as a response to their funding being cutoff, it shows that Assange's and his toads' "activism" are not for the good that they supposedly touting in my opinion. Just a bunch of fringe lefties who are not getting their way so "they are going to fight the man" and exact some revenge.

And what's the right way of doing it? Waiting forever for the government to publish it themselves?

And Assange himself has nothing to do with the hacking, it's being done by a group of hackers from 4chan who are pissed of because of the made-up rape charges.


And I really don't get it, you are mad at Assange and the hackers instead of being mad at the obvious framing they're doing to him. It really pisses me of when I see something like that..

[lpboarder]

Grow up. I hardly think Assange is simply trying to "stick it to the man" by releasing these documents. We vote these monsters into office, we have a right to know what our government is really doing.

You can be a patriot without totally getting on all fours and begging for it from your country, you know. Which is what you're basically doing. I'll probably get in trouble for saying that, because anything that isn't worded exactly right on this website gets criticism, but I don't give a fuck. Your way of thinking is so one way and linear that it's quite disgusting. No need for WikiLeaks? Explain me to me why you think the government should just get away unscathed doing things like this. This isn't American at all, what Obama's administration is doing to this man and this website. It's quite unfair, actually. And it has EVERYTHING to do with freedom of speech and a free press.

This is fucking horseshit and you know it, deep down. If we get attacked because of anything that has been released by WikiLeaks, we deserve it. Don't you see that? We aren't infallible, we have to pay for what we've done. We payed the price on 9/11, but we continued to ignore it when EVERYONE could have been better off if the United States would have just recognized where these people are coming from and just wanted to be heard.

This conversation makes me sick to my stomach, I can't believe people would think what this guy doing is anything less than being a patriot. I won't be back into this thread, that's for sure.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot. Guess what? WikiLeaks doesn't release anything that may, "compromise intelligence-gathering programs aimed at hostile countries, or disclose information about the capabilities of American weapons that could be helpful to an enemy". That's sure sticking it to the man, huh?

I guess George W. Bush was "sticking it to the man" (himself?) when he intentionally leaked the identity of an undercover CIA agent, right? Where was the outrage when the fucking President lied to the country and started a war that got more people killed than WikiLeaks ever could?

If just one person is harmed as a result of these leaks, then Assange is no better than the people he is trying to expose.


And what's the right way of doing it? Waiting forever for the government to publish it themselves?

And Assange himself has nothing to do with the hacking, it's being done by a group of hackers from 4chan who are pissed of because of the made-up rape charges.


And I really don't get it, you are mad at Assange and the hackers instead of being mad at the obvious framing they're doing to him. It really pisses me of when I see something like that..

If I am understanding you correctly, stealing the information is the method you are okay with using? How is WikiLeaks & Assange any better than the governments, people and information they are exposing by releasing the information in this manner? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Framing? You expected the US government to take such an obvious act of information theft, deception, and (in the Army Pvt's case) betrayal so lightly? Maybe he thinks he is some 21st century Robin Hood or something but that is not the case. And when your plan is exposing sensitive information for the world to see, you better have your own life scrubbed clean. Assange is no Ghandi that is for damn sure so people should stop thinking he is out for some higher purpose. He stole, whether with or without his direct knowledge and/or direction, and he is at the very least guilty of that. He is a fringe leftist using the auspices of doing good deeds in front of the world.

He should count his blessings. Had he chose to start revealing information on Russia, Putin surely would have had his skull split open and have his horse crap on his remains.

[Luke]

How else would we go about accomplishing a transparent government when the people in power do their best to cover up as much shit as possible? I'm shocked at how many people are opposing the publication of these cables because they feel it will harm international relations? If you're talking shit about members of a foreign government then call me crazy, but that's not much of a relationship if there's a strong mistrust among diplomats from ally countries.

I'm shocked at how willingly people will just make themselves sheep for their government. Sorry, but it's ridiculous. Your government, my government, law enforcers and army officers all around the world have been proven corrupt time and time again however this time with concrete evidence and your immediate reaction is to start calling Assange a criminal because he dared to reveal the truth? I don't think Assange is a hero, but he's helped create an organisation dedicated to revealing the truth and for that he should be commended, not penalised. It's not about fighting the establishment or 'sticking it to the man'...The search for the truth is an ongoing battle because these fuckers in power are constantly spoonfeeding us bullshit and too many people eat it up. These same bastards are the first ones tp condemn lies and deciet.

Let's not forget, it's not just international relations that this has exposed. From a British view-point as well as an ethnic view-point, the cables that revealed that there are BNP members among our police force. Even if only a few, that is terrible and quite frankly unacceptable. The fact that known members of an extreme far-right racist party such as the BNP are actually employed as law enforcement officers makes me sick...But how else would we know that this is the case without wikileaks?

As I said before, I'm not in favour of anarchy and I don't agree with this whole notion of 'sticking it to the man' but I'd rather hear and ultimately accept an unpleasent truth than be told a sugar-coated lie. I couldn't agree with Dusan enough on this one. Also, fringe lefties? Don't make me laugh.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

If just one person is harmed as a result of these leaks, then Assange is no better than the people he is trying to expose.



If I am understanding you correctly, stealing the information is the method you are okay with using? How is WikiLeaks & Assange any better than the governments, people and information they are exposing by releasing the information in this manner? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Framing? You expected the US government to take such an obvious act of information theft, deception, and (in the Army Pvt's case) betrayal so lightly? Maybe he thinks he is some 21st century Robin Hood or something but that is not the case. And when your plan is exposing sensitive information for the world to see, you better have your own life scrubbed clean. Assange is no Ghandi that is for damn sure so people should stop thinking he is out for some higher purpose. He stole, whether with or without his direct knowledge and/or direction, and he is at the very least guilty of that. He is a fringe leftist using the auspices of doing good deeds in front of the world.

He should count his blessings. Had he chose to start revealing information on Russia, Putin surely would have had his skull split open and have his horse crap on his remains.

So by this argument,you would rather be told a sugar coated lie instead of knowing the truth? And for the first statement I refer back to Casey's example:

I guess George W. Bush was "sticking it to the man" (himself?) when he intentionally leaked the identity of an undercover CIA agent, right?

Bush endangered a lot more lives by breaking UN Law, invading El Meurto's country and killing not only his own army men but INNOCENT civilians. And got away with it. When a civilian like Assange commits "treason" it's a big deal and there are calls for his arrest. Where was Bush's arrest warrant?

[Harlz]

With the Knowledge that this is possibly (and is most likely) demeaning a Nation.

You know who does similar things? Facebook. We put data in, in knowledge that it is safe from other companies, and it is not to be released pubically. When we found out that Facebook was giving away personal information, you know what happened? People raged and protested against Facebook for giving away our personal information, fully knowing that another company could possibly abuse (or use/sell/etc..) to another party, and for the gain of money. Hm. While it isn't 100% mirror match, the idea is the still the same. Why is it that we praise Wikileaks, but bash Facebook for almost essentially the same actions?

Does Wikileaks (For these cables specifically) threaten lives of people? No. But if it causes increased tension between friendly nations, and the US suffers economically or socially, that is harm. No, not harm physically, but harm economically, or socially. It's the fact that information doesn't directly kill people, its the effects and perceptions of then-on-out that will strike down a person, or raise someone.


Wow. Wikileaks doesn't cause tension. The FACTS presented by wikileaks are what cause the tensions. The incredibly fucked up and inhamane things our governments do is what causes what you call "tension".

And in the same vein, stating what a country/government does isn't demeaning them. They demean themselves by their own actions.

[El Muerto]

If just one person is harmed as a result of these leaks, then Assange is no better than the people he is trying to expose.



If I am understanding you correctly, stealing the information is the method you are okay with using? How is WikiLeaks & Assange any better than the governments, people and information they are exposing by releasing the information in this manner? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Framing? You expected the US government to take such an obvious act of information theft, deception, and (in the Army Pvt's case) betrayal so lightly? Maybe he thinks he is some 21st century Robin Hood or something but that is not the case. And when your plan is exposing sensitive information for the world to see, you better have your own life scrubbed clean. Assange is no Ghandi that is for damn sure so people should stop thinking he is out for some higher purpose. He stole, whether with or without his direct knowledge and/or direction, and he is at the very least guilty of that. He is a fringe leftist using the auspices of doing good deeds in front of the world.


Assange didn't steal anything, he just published the information one of your own soldiers stole. He's a journalist, that's his job. Did they tell you what they did with that soldier or did they just cover it up like they always do? And please, rape charges only a couple of days after he's published a quarter million of confidential files? You don't have to be Einstein to figure that one out.



He should count his blessings. Had he chose to start revealing information on Russia, Putin surely would have had his skull split open and have his horse crap on his remains.

Nice, this is a standard emergency procedure. When in trouble, present the Russians as bad guys. Always works, right?

And I'm sure you meant Batman, because I hear that's how the US officials call him nowadays. So classy.


Wow. Wikileaks doesn't cause tension. The FACTS presented by wikileaks are what cause the tensions. The incredibly fucked up and inhamane things our governments do is what causes what you call "tension".

And in the same vein, stating what a country/government does isn't demeaning them. They demean themselves by their own actions.

This sums it up. I don't know why some people won't accept it.

[Harlz]

Or, we could just prevent sites like Wikileaks from leaking confidential information that could ENDANGER the lives of 100s of millions of people worldwide. There are somethings that are better left kept secret.

Or maybe America (and us, it's not just the USA that's fucked up) should not start dropping bombs into where '100s of millions of people' live, just for some fucking oil. That seems like a much more reliable way to not endanger lives ;)

Anyway, wikileaks posts information about things that have already happened, it doesn't endanger military operations (or the killing of innocent civilians, as seems to be the case more often than not) before they happen.

[Theazninvasion68]

Look, I'm not saying Wikileaks isn't good stuff.

I just don't see how he is a hero. I made an similar analogy as to why, and even pointed out that the wikileaks is probably a gold mine of information. I didn't say it does, I'm saying "If it did/does..."

What I am saying is that Assange isn't a hero in my opinion. Nor is the person who obtained these cables and gave them to Assanage. Infact, I'd rather call him out for arrest/treason/espionage for giving secret U.S Documents to a non-US citizen in a different country than arrest Assange for trial.


edit: If assanage gets the Press freedom prize... :lol: I'll laugh at the irony.

[minuteforce]

If the group includes "accredited journalists", surely they can be at least a little selective about what they publish - rather than just blindly throwing everything out there and possibly endangering lives - and somehow provide a bit of context for whatever they put out ...

[Gloomy Mushroom]

If the group includes "accredited journalists", surely they can be at least a little selective about what they publish - rather than just blindly throwing everything out there and possibly endangering lives - and somehow provide a bit of context for whatever they put out ...

The media has NEVER given a crap to what they put out.

[El Muerto]

If the group includes "accredited journalists", surely they can be at least a little selective about what they publish - rather than just blindly throwing everything out there and possibly endangering lives - and somehow provide a bit of context for whatever they put out ...

They are actually being more selective than they should be, they removed all the names, weapon specifications and almost anything info that could harm the US army..

[Dean]

Assange is just zis guy, you know?

[minuteforce]

They are actually being more selective than they should be, they removed all the names, weapon specifications and almost anything info that could harm the US army..
Well, that's, um, kind of fair, I guess :x

[Benjamin]

Explain to me what makes Wikileaks necessary. Alright, so we know that some soldiers fucked up and killed civillians mistaken as terrorists, China's situation with Google, etc. Why is stuff like that something that is essential to know? How does it make our respective nations better? All it does is just rise tensions that never had to be started. Things are kept secret for a reason. It's not worth exploiting secrets that could endanger us just so the people can "know the truth."

Luckily, there hasn't been anything that leaked that's too harmful YET. I agree with Derek and Jay completely. This man is no hero and should be imprisoned for threatening national security.

[Mark]

You guys act as if he's giving out the nuclear codes to the U.S.' enemies.

These cables are just correspondence between diplomats from different countries and those in the U.S, or between various levels of government in the U.S. I don't see how he's threatening national security other than the argument that it's harming relationships with other countries. Fair enough, but America had a lot of enemies before WikiLeaks. I doubt Libya is vowing to destroy America because one cable described their leader as a "dangerous eccentric". No shit, really?

Everybody keeps toting either the media or American-government line about how this is an endangerment to people, but could somebody provide me with a few examples of cables that explicitly demonstrate this? Maybe there's some out there, I don't know. Educate me.

[Benjamin]

You guys act as if he's giving out the nuclear codes to the U.S.' enemies.

These cables are just correspondence between diplomats from different countries and those in the U.S, or between various levels of government in the U.S. I don't see how he's threatening national security other than the argument that it's harming relationships with other countries. Fair enough, but America had a lot of enemies before WikiLeaks. I doubt Libya is vowing to destroy America because one cable described their leader as a "dangerous eccentric". No shit, really?

Everybody keeps toting either the media or American-government line about how this is an endangerment to people, but could somebody provide me with a few examples of cables that explicitly demonstrate this? Maybe there's some out there, I don't know. Educate me.

Fair enough, but until Wikileaks comes out and shows me they're pacifists, I can't help but express some concern.

I do know that the US government has a few locations that contain antidotes for certain diseases such as Typhoid Fever if there was an outbreak. That's an example of something that they could leak and if they did, it could end badly. Granted, that's just an example and it probably wouldn't start WWIII, but who knows what they could get their hands on? Again, until I get proof that these guys know where to cross the line, I'll show some concern.

[Mark]

Fair enough, but until Wikileaks comes out and shows me they're pacifists, I can't help but express some concern.

I do know that the US government has a few locations that contain antidotes for certain diseases such as Typhoid Fever if there was an outbreak. That's an example of something that they could leak and if they did, it could end badly. Granted, that's just an example and it probably wouldn't start WWIII, but who knows what they could get their hands on? Again, until I get proof that these guys know where to cross the line, I'll show some concern.

You're letting your imagination run wild. The nature of these cables is pretty much simple commentary on world events, not discussions of things like you suggested. It's non-policy chit-chat. Even if something like your scenario came up, the U.S. has ridiculously extensive protocols to mitigate such risks. The U.S. knows what cables are going to be leaked, and if anything of that sensitive nature was ever in danger of being released publicly, I assure you they'd have enacted measures to prevent bad things from happening.

I don't think you should show concern UNTIL and IF something potentially dangerous gets leaked, because right now that's a big IF. Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. As of right now, you're buying into the fear-mongering the government and media are doing. And I'm not an anti-establishment person, it's simply a true observation of how things are getting spun.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Explain to me what makes Wikileaks necessary. Alright, so we know that some soldiers fucked up and killed civillians mistaken as terrorists, China's situation with Google, etc. Why is stuff like that something that is essential to know? How does it make our respective nations better? All it does is just rise tensions that never had to be started. Things are kept secret for a reason. It's not worth exploiting secrets that could endanger us just so the people can "know the truth."

Luckily, there hasn't been anything that leaked that's too harmful YET. I agree with Derek and Jay completely. This man is no hero and should be imprisoned for threatening national security.

Coincidentally a man who works for WikiLeaks also works for the American Military. I don't know what the documents say, but I have a brief overview to what they reveal, but it must've been some major fucking up on America's behalf for it's own military to resort to leaking the information.

And as for national security threats, I really don't see any arguments against Bush 'accidentally' risking national security by revealing a CIA's undercover agent's identity.

Seriously I like to know the truth and not be treated like a chess piece.

[minuteforce]

And as for national security threats, I really don't see any arguments against Bush 'accidentally' risking national security by revealing a CIA's undercover agent's identity.
Wait, what? :*

[AStarkson]

I'd comment after some more about PRC comes out.

[El Muerto]

I heard you guys could push the Earth out of its orbit if all of you jump off a chair at the same time, so they probably don't wanna fuck with China :D

[esaul17]

I thought the "Bush leaked CIA agent's identity!" claims were put to rest a while ago.

[AStarkson]

There are rumors saying that WikiLeaks is going to leak some of the high-rank CPC officials' bank account in Switzerland. That should be interesting.

[El Muerto]

There are rumors saying that WikiLeaks is going to leak some of the high-rank CPC officials' bank account in Switzerland. That should be interesting.

Yeah, it was announced a couple of days ago.

[Benjamin]

You're letting your imagination run wild. The nature of these cables is pretty much simple commentary on world events, not discussions of things like you suggested. It's non-policy chit-chat. Even if something like your scenario came up, the U.S. has ridiculously extensive protocols to mitigate such risks. The U.S. knows what cables are going to be leaked, and if anything of that sensitive nature was ever in danger of being released publicly, I assure you they'd have enacted measures to prevent bad things from happening.

I don't think you should show concern UNTIL and IF something potentially dangerous gets leaked, because right now that's a big IF. Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. As of right now, you're buying into the fear-mongering the government and media are doing. And I'm not an anti-establishment person, it's simply a true observation of how things are getting spun.

That's like saying you shouldn't get concerned about someone shooting you until they actually shoot you. Wikileaks has some of the best hackers out there. And in my opinion, they've come across as pretty reckless and having a "we can do whatever the fuck we want" attitude. Example: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/09/palin-confirms-cyberattack-wikileaks-supporters/ (For the record I hate Sarah Palin but you get the point :lol:)

But I'm not losing sleep over this. Although, I don't think you can ignore the fact that wikileaks could release something in the future that could threaten national security. I hope that they know where to cross the line though. If they ONLY release stuff similar to what they have been releasing, then I can live with that.

[Mark]

That's like saying you shouldn't get concerned about someone shooting you until they actually shoot you. Wikileaks has some of the best hackers out there. And in my opinion, they've come across as pretty reckless and having a "we can do whatever the fuck we want" attitude. Example: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/09/palin-confirms-cyberattack-wikileaks-supporters/ (For the record I hate Sarah Palin but you get the point :lol:)

But I'm not losing sleep over this. Although, I don't think you can ignore the fact that wikileaks could release something in the future that could threaten national security. I hope that they know where to cross the line though. If they ONLY release stuff similar to what they have been releasing, then I can live with that.

Terrible analogy. You have reason to believe someone will shoot you if they have a gun pointed at you. WikiLeaks, to this point, has not released any information that comes remotely close to what you've described. Nor have they released anything that has lead to a single person getting hurt. AGAIN, it's just non-policy chit chat. Your assertion that they could have information that will threaten national security is completely unsubstantiated.

WikiLeaks doesn't have some of the best hackers out there. The people who have been taking down major websites with DDoS attacks are from a group called Anonymous. They are not affiliated with WikiLeaks in any way. They are supporters of the freedom of information and see WikiLeaks as a major contributor to this. Please read up a little more on this (and avoid the Fox News stories).

[Benjamin]

Terrible analogy. You have reason to believe someone will shoot you if they have a gun pointed at you. WikiLeaks, to this point, has not released any information that comes remotely close to what you've described. Nor have they released anything that has lead to a single person getting hurt. AGAIN, it's just non-policy chit chat. Your assertion that they could have information that will threaten national security is completely unsubstantiated.

WikiLeaks doesn't have some of the best hackers out there. The people who have been taking down major websites with DDoS attacks are from a group called Anonymous. They are not affiliated with WikiLeaks in any way. They are supporters of the freedom of information and see WikiLeaks as a major contributor to this. Please read up a little more on this (and avoid the Fox News stories).

Whoa, my bad. The people I've been talking with told me that and I took their word for it. But even if these cyber attacks aren't by Wikileaks themselves, they're still happening because of its existence. And again, I know what's been released so far isn't that bad, but I personally can't just sit here and assume that all of the info at their disposal is all harmless.

And on another note, I had no idea that was Fox News. Sorry about that lol.

[El Muerto]

..I personally can't just sit here and assume that all of the info at their disposal is all harmless.


But on the other hand, you can just sit there and take all the bullshit your government is feeding you. Ignorance is bliss, right? You'd rather live in your world of puppies, kitties and sunshine that find out the real truth about your country.

[Benjamin]

But on the other hand, you can just sit there and take all the bullshit your government is feeding you. Ignorance is bliss, right? You'd rather live in your world of puppies, kitties and sunshine that find out the real truth about your country.

No, I'd rather live in a world with puppies, kitties, sunshine, and knowing the fact that my government has it's flaws/mistakes rather than having to know every little detail about their mistakes and having to deal with unnecessary tensions that otherwise didn't need to be started.

[Jayhov]

Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?

[Benjamin]

Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?

If friends didn't disagree on ANYTHING, forums would be boring. You guys are all my friends :awesome:.

[El Muerto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0xLyoc9DxU

[Dean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0xLyoc9DxU
That's the only time I've cared about any of this.

[El Muerto]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/sirmichael/fmlxBgvAnqzdtxmwBaryzDFhwDIasjfxauiiAkFhefoBqqrfrg kikfGumvwA/Screen_shot_2010-11-28_at_8.23.44_PM.png.scaled1000.png?AWSAccessKeyId =1C9REJR1EMRZ83Q7QRG2&Expires=1292106707&Signature=h4OdIku2zPSJk8QfPBmxt%2BR%2B7DI%3D

Wikileaks is gonna be legen-wait for it.. DARY!

[Jordan]

Assange is a hero/go wikileaks. That's the most of what i have to say.

Funny how assange got arrested in sweden, when sweden would be the first country to support wikileaks.

[Harlz]

Saw Muse the other night.
Matt Bellamy dedicated Citizen Erased to Assange and Wikileaks. So cool.

[lpboarder]

Funny how assange got arrested in sweden, when sweden would be the first country to support wikileaks.

He was arrested in the UK.

[Jordan]

I don't care about the specifics, he's been arrested due to Swedish laws whatevs.

[Xero21]

After watching a video of U.S. soldiers blowing the hell out of a bunch of defenseless, wounded people and a van that arrived to take them to safety, I can't say I feel sorry for the Pentagon.

Assange may not be a hero, but he certainly is not a horrible person for doing this.

To be honest, this is how government was originally envisioned. As being held accountable to the people, not as their all-mighty leaders.

[Harlz]

After watching a video of U.S. soldiers blowing the hell out of a bunch of defenseless, wounded people and a van that arrived to take them to safety, I can't say I feel sorry for the Pentagon.

Assange may not be a hero, but he certainly is not a horrible person for doing this.

To be honest, this is how government was originally envisioned. As being held accountable to the people, not as their all-mighty leaders.

Thank you.

[Rohit LP]

wiki leaks rocks..d best thing they've done is..started exposing politicians in india to some extent..

[Dean]

http://twitter.com/julian_ass

Whoever runs this is brilliant.

[Timothy]

http://twitter.com/julian_ass

Whoever runs this is brilliant.

"Cousin Joe is here. I'm the only one who knows he's gay. Can't wait to see his face at the surprise Coming Out Party I've organised for him!"

I love it.


EDIT: "Next door are having a pigeon loft installed. Mum's locked me in my bedroom with the cat."

Hahahaha.

[Ryo Hazuki]

Dean has sucked up all the seriousness of the interwebz. Though that twitter page is the ace.

[Louis]

Saw Muse the other night.
Matt Bellamy dedicated Citizen Erased to Assange and Wikileaks. So cool.

A bit late on this comment but that's awesome. Makes sense, too.