Rutgers Student Secretly Filmed Having Sex Commits Suicide

[.Amanda.]

NEWSCORE/AP - A student at New Jersey's Rutgers University is presumed to have committed suicide after two classmates secretly fed a live stream of him having sex in his dorm room onto the Internet.

The victim, Tyler Clementi, killed himself last week, a lawyer for his family said. Paul Mainardi, the lawyer, said Wednesday that Clementi, 18, was "a fine young man and a distinguished musician," according to the AP.

A law enforcement official told the AP that the student's license and Rutgers University ID were found in a wallet left on the George Washington Bridge on Sept. 22 after two witnesses saw him jump.

On Wednesday, the NYPD Harbor Unit pulled the body of a white man from the Spuyten Duyvil Creek near Inwood Hill Park, authorities said. The body had no identification, but was wearing a watch, the AP reported.

The medical examiner will determine the cause of death, and the NYPD hopes to identify the body soon.

Dharun Ravi, 18 and Molly Wei, 18, were both charged with two counts of invasion of privacy for allegedly using a hidden camera to broadcast some of the images of the Sept. 19 sexual encounter on the Web, authorities said.

Ravi was also charged with two additional counts for allegedly attempting to use the camera to view another sexual encounter with the same student three days later. He was released on $25,000 bail.

The Star-Ledger reported that Ravi's now defunct Twitter feed contained messages that referred to the his use of iChat, a messaging service with live-streaming capabilities.

"Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay," he posted on Sept. 19.

"Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 to 12. Yes it's happening again," he tweeted on Sept. 22, the Star-Ledger reported.


Source: Rutgers Student Secretly Filmed Having Sex Commits Suicide - Fox News (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/student-secretly-filmed-having-sex-reportedly-jumps-to-death-newscore-20100929)


As a student at Rutgers University and an active member of BiGLARU (Bisexuals, Gays, Lesbians and Allies of Rutgers University) this tragedy upsets me deeply. A young man with infinite potential is now gone due to an awful "prank" pulled by two other students.

In my eyes, this was hardly a "prank". Pranks are light-hearted, care-free, and hold no ill-intentions. THIS was an attack against a person.

Do I believe that these students knew Tyler would commit suicide? No. Absolutely not. Do I think they should be held accountable for their actions? Absolutely.

It is my firm belief that Tyler was perfect in the eyes of whatever God or Goddess you choose to believe in. I only wish he knew that on this side.

RIP Tyler Clementi. May the afterlife be graced with the beautiful sounds of your violin and the shining radiance of your soul.

[Louis]

It pains me to even think that people do such things. What a tragedy. :(

[Ree]

Oh that's so sad :(

I agree with you, this was not a prank, it goes way beyond a prank/joke.

Did you know him?

[Dean]

Source: Rutgers Student Secretly Filmed Having Sex Commits Suicide - Fox News (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/student-secretly-filmed-having-sex-reportedly-jumps-to-death-newscore-20100929)


As a student at Rutgers University and an active member of BiGLARU (Bisexuals, Gays, Lesbians and Allies of Rutgers University) this tragedy upsets me deeply. A young man with infinite potential is now gone due to an awful "prank" pulled by two other students.

In my eyes, this was hardly a "prank". Pranks are light-hearted, care-free, and hold no ill-intentions. THIS was an attack against a person.

Do I believe that these students knew Tyler would commit suicide? No. Absolutely not. Do I think they should be held accountable for their actions? Absolutely.

It is my firm belief that Tyler was perfect in the eyes of whatever God or Goddess you choose to believe in. I only wish he knew that on this side.

RIP Tyler Clementi. May the afterlife be graced with the beautiful sounds of your violin and the shining radiance of your soul.
Pretty much.

[.Amanda.]

I did not know him personally, no.
I had heard him play with the Rutgers Orchestra though. He was a very talented young man.
It sickens me that things had to turn out this way.

[Hellions]

Charge them for invasion of privacy, unauthorized filming, etc. but holding them accountable for his suicide? No. It's tragic that it happened but it was his own thought process, his own decision, and his own actions. Just because it's a terrible thing doesn't mean he loses responsibility and it should be shifted on to people who pulled a (very stupid) "prank". I'm pretty sure they weren't thinking "Hey, let's get him on video, then he'll jump off a bridge or something!"

People let emotion cloud their judgement way too much. Charge them for the prank? Hell yes. Hold them responsible for the person's decision? What? No. What the fuck.

[.Amanda.]

Charge them for invasion of privacy, unauthorized filming, etc. but holding them accountable for his suicide? No. It's tragic that it happened but it was his own thought process, his own decision, and his own actions. Just because it's a terrible thing doesn't mean he loses responsibility and it should be shifted on to people who pulled a (very stupid) "prank". I'm pretty sure they weren't thinking "Hey, let's get him on video, then he'll jump off a bridge or something!"

People let emotion cloud their judgement way too much. Charge them for the prank? Hell yes. Hold them responsible for the person's decision? What? No. What the fuck.
If you actually read what I wrote you'll notice this is exactly what I said. ;)

[Meryl_]

From what you said about the group you are in, was he gay and in the closet? Asking cause I don't understand why he would kill himself over that, I mean a lot of people post videos of them having sex on the web so it isn't THAT tragic...

[Jeff]

From what you said about the group you are in, was he gay and in the closet? Asking cause I don't understand why he would kill himself over that, I mean a lot of people post videos of them having sex on the web so it isn't THAT tragic...

It's not the fact that he was in the closet, but more that someone posted a VERY private video publicly, that wasn't filmed with his consent in the first place.

[Agent O]

From what you said about the group you are in, was he gay and in the closet? Asking cause I don't understand why he would kill himself over that, I mean a lot of people post videos of them having sex on the web so it isn't THAT tragic...

I don't think being gay/in the closet is what it comes down to. It was a severe invasion of privacy , something not a lot of people should or would react to lightly. You never know how a person would react in a situation like this. Sadly in this guy's case he reacted in the worst way possible.

[Schen The Genius]

I just heard about this from a friend of mine but I didn't know exactly what she was talking about. I'm surprised i didn't hear about this sooner since I'm pretty close, that sucks.

--RS

[travz21]

I don't see how this is worse than any other bad pranks. It's not their fault the guy killed himself. They should be charged with invasion of privacy and that's it. It sucks he killed himself, but it's his own fault he died and nobody elses.

[F-ck Casey]

Fox News alluded to the fact that he was masturbating, not having sex.

[+ / –]

You know, considering she GOES to that school, I'm sure she knows better than Faux News.

[Dean]

I don't see how this is worse than any other bad pranks. It's not their fault the guy killed himself. They should be charged with invasion of privacy and that's it. It sucks he killed himself, but it's his own fault he died and nobody elses.
Well, I would say that if they did it in order to victimise him in some way (not saying they definitely did, but it seems to at least be implied) that's where it stops being a prank and it becomes harrasment and bullying, and when it comes to that they should have known that doing it probably would have at least left him feeling hurt and emotionally damaged, if not going as far as he did. So assuming that really is how it happened, they should definitely shoulder their share of the blame in my view.

[travz21]

Every prank is victimizing someone.

[+ / –]

Not necessarily. There are pranks done in good fun and there are pranks done in bad taste. If I were to put laxative in your nutrition shake, as terribly embarrassing and inconvenient it may be, it's something you can laugh about later.

This is compared to the "hey, I put your private sex life on broadcast on the internet and invited random people you may or may not know to witness it" that happened here. There are so many factors here that could lead to what was inevitably the end result.

For example, we don't know whether his parents knew of his sexuality. He could come from a conservative family and be very shamed that this got out. The idea that you're out on the internet due to the machinations of someone you thought you could trust deals with a lot of psychological issues. We have no idea how this could've affected him.

He may have also had low self-esteem or been depressed beforehand. I usually don't talk about my personal life but I have a history of unchecked medical depression due to my parents not willing to pay for medication. I can assure you that I've thought of, and at times actually attempted to commit suicide for reasons much less serious and drastic than this.

The prank was with malicious intent. I wouldn't expect anyone to do this as a joke, more so considering that this wasn't the first time it happened. It clearly states that the roommate discovered that he had this kind of access to Tyler's personal life. A normal person (or rather, what I assume to be a normal person) would, after the initial tweet and discovery, point out that he was in fact able to watch these events. Instead, he waited until the situation occurred again and took advantage of it. It's exploitation and definite malicious intent.

As this happened twice, it's clear that that the goal here was exploitation, embarrassment, and ill will. I could MAYBE understand if it happened only the one time and the events played out as they did. I'd still harbor resentment towards the responsible pair, but benefit of the doubt comes into play. The point is it DIDN'T happen once. It happened twice.

[Louis]

Not necessarily. There are pranks done in good fun and there are pranks done in bad taste. If I were to put laxative in your nutrition shake, as terribly embarrassing and inconvenient it may be, it's something you can laugh about later.

This is compared to the "hey, I put your private sex life on broadcast on the internet and invited random people you may or may not know to witness it" that happened here. There are so many factors here that could lead to what was inevitably the end result.

For example, we don't know whether his parents knew of his sexuality. He could come from a conservative family and be very shamed that this got out. The idea that you're out on the internet due to the machinations of someone you thought you could trust deals with a lot of psychological issues. We have no idea how this could've affected him.

He may have also had low self-esteem or been depressed beforehand. I usually don't talk about my personal life but I have a history of unchecked medical depression due to my parents not willing to pay for medication. I can assure you that I've thought of, and at times actually attempted to commit suicide for reasons much less serious and drastic than this.

The prank was with malicious intent. I wouldn't expect anyone to do this as a joke, more so considering that this wasn't the first time it happened. It clearly states that the roommate discovered that he had this kind of access to Tyler's personal life. A normal person (or rather, what I assume to be a normal person) would, after the initial tweet and discovery, point out that he was in fact able to watch these events. Instead, he waited until the situation occurred again and took advantage of it. It's exploitation and definite malicious intent.

As this happened twice, it's clear that that the goal here was exploitation, embarrassment, and ill will. I could MAYBE understand if it happened only the one time and the events played out as they did. I'd still harbor resentment towards the responsible pair, but benefit of the doubt comes into play. The point is it DIDN'T happen once. It happened twice.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Dean]

Not necessarily. There are pranks done in good fun and there are pranks done in bad taste. If I were to put laxative in your nutrition shake, as terribly embarrassing and inconvenient it may be, it's something you can laugh about later.

This is compared to the "hey, I put your private sex life on broadcast on the internet and invited random people you may or may not know to witness it" that happened here. There are so many factors here that could lead to what was inevitably the end result.

For example, we don't know whether his parents knew of his sexuality. He could come from a conservative family and be very shamed that this got out. The idea that you're out on the internet due to the machinations of someone you thought you could trust deals with a lot of psychological issues. We have no idea how this could've affected him.

He may have also had low self-esteem or been depressed beforehand. I usually don't talk about my personal life but I have a history of unchecked medical depression due to my parents not willing to pay for medication. I can assure you that I've thought of, and at times actually attempted to commit suicide for reasons much less serious and drastic than this.

The prank was with malicious intent. I wouldn't expect anyone to do this as a joke, more so considering that this wasn't the first time it happened. It clearly states that the roommate discovered that he had this kind of access to Tyler's personal life. A normal person (or rather, what I assume to be a normal person) would, after the initial tweet and discovery, point out that he was in fact able to watch these events. Instead, he waited until the situation occurred again and took advantage of it. It's exploitation and definite malicious intent.

As this happened twice, it's clear that that the goal here was exploitation, embarrassment, and ill will. I could MAYBE understand if it happened only the one time and the events played out as they did. I'd still harbor resentment towards the responsible pair, but benefit of the doubt comes into play. The point is it DIDN'T happen once. It happened twice.
Thank you.

[Derek The Infamous]

And if this thread wasn't already depressing enough:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/29/seth-walsh-california-tee_n_744605.html

This world makes me sick. Seriously.

[travz21]

The idea that you're out on the internet due to the machinations of someone you thought you could trust deals with a lot of psychological issues. We have no idea how this could've affected him.


Lol. And the laxative example would be different from this how? Come on. Shatting yourself in the middle of class or possibly having people see you jerk one out or kissing a person of the same sex. I don't see a clear cut option there. A prank is a prank. If you're doing it to your friends you know well, then it's not a prank. This is like the same thing as egging parked hippie vans.

Unless there's a 100% certainty that the people who did this disliked Tyler for being gay and were trying to expose him out of pure hate, then I can't get myself to feel sorry for him. I've had friends do this to me and it's not a huge deal. I mean, unless they weren't actually my friends and they hated me and were trying to get video of me to make fun of me. Then it would be a big deal.

[Louis]

Lol. And the laxative example would be different from this how? Come on. Shatting yourself in the middle of class or possibly having people see you jerk one out or kissing a person of the same sex. I don't see a clear cut option there. A prank is a prank. If you're doing it to your friends you know well, then it's not a prank. This is like the same thing as egging parked hippie vans.

Unless there's a 100% certainty that the people who did this disliked Tyler for being gay and were trying to expose him out of pure hate, then I can't get myself to feel sorry for him. I've had friends do this to me and it's not a huge deal. I mean, unless they weren't actually my friends and they hated me and were trying to get video of me to make fun of me. Then it would be a big deal.

How could you possibly say that this sort of 'prank' isn't malicious? I don't get that at all. Because if this is the sort of thing you view to be a light-hearted joke, I can't even imagine what you'd consider to actually be malicious.

[travz21]

If friends put a webcam up knowing you're going to be doing something sexually alone or with someone else, I don't see how that is malicious at all. It all depends on the context of the people involved. And it isn't very defined whatsoever in this article.

[Louis]

If friends put a webcam up knowing you're going to be doing something sexually alone or with someone else, I don't see how that is malicious at all. It all depends on the context of the people involved. And it isn't very defined whatsoever in this article.

Sex for some people is very personal. I'd say no matter what it's malicious. I don't know of any instance of someone doing something like that and does not having malicious intent.

[travz21]

You must have some really uptight friends then. This happened like once a week to myself or somebody I knew when I was in college. Among many, many other worse jokes.

Edit: People in our dorms actually found a way to turn around the peephole in the door so people outside could see in. Now that made you stay on your toes.

[Louis]

You must have some really uptight friends then. This happened like once a week to myself or somebody I knew when I was in college. Among many, many other worse jokes.

Edit: People in our dorms actually found a way to turn around the peephole in the door so people outside could see in. Now that made you stay on your toes.

If it's enough to make someone kill themselves, I'd say it's not about being uptight. It's about being respectful and cognizant of someone else's feelings and privacy. Doing otherwise and calling it a light-hearted prank is bullshit.

[travz21]

I can fart in someone's face as a prank and they might kill themselves. The aftermath is besides the point. Yeah, if these people were out to get Tyler and make his life hell, then it's absolutely not a measly prank. But this article doesn't state what the two people were to him besides "classmates". You can be classmates with the love of your life or someone you despise. It's a pretty broad word.

[Jen]

Whether or not they did this because they hated him for being gay is moot. The real question is would he have killed himself if they hadn't pulled this prank, which is for all intents malicious in the eyes of the law. Most likely not. Their actions directly led to his death, and they should be punished accordingly.

And in response to the post above this one, the male defendant in this case was the victim's room mate.

[Louis]

I can fart in someone's face as a prank and they might kill themselves. The aftermath is besides the point. Yeah, if these people were out to get Tyler and make his life hell, then it's absolutely not a measly prank. But this article doesn't state what the two people were to him besides "classmates". You can be classmates with the love of your life or someone you despise. It's a pretty broad word.

It's not about who they were. It's about what they did, man. I'm not sure you get that.

[travz21]

Their actions directly led to his death, and they should be punished accordingly.

No. Him jumping led directly to his death. There are many other things he could have done besides kill himself. Them doing this prank did not lead down one singluar path that will always end in suicide. If it did, it would be murder.


It's not about who they were. It's about what they did, man. I'm not sure you get that.

No, I understand. All actions are not equal from every person in the world. If your girlfriend does this, you'll just blow it off and not care. If it's a random person, you're going to be creeped at the least. I don't think you get that. It definitely matters who did it.

[[TDWP] Jacob]

Man that is terrible. Poor kid. They shouldn't be charged for his suicide though. But still those guys are assholes

[travz21]

Jacob;995100']Man that is terrible. Poor kid. They shouldn't be charged for his suicide though. But still those guys are assholes

This. It sucks that people get depressed enough to kill themselves. I feel sorry that their lives were that unpleasant that they had to do something so unbelievably dumb. Suicide is just stupid, though. I can't feel too much emotion for people who go that route. The offenders are nothing more than assholes until it's proven that they were intent on hurting this kid in some way.

[Jen]

Elements of Wrongful Death Lawsuit

There are key elements applicable to every wrongful death case. First, a plaintiff must be able to show that an actual death of their loved one occurred. Second, the plaintiff must prove that named defendants were negligent before, during, or after a given event that led to the death of the victim. Third, the negligent actions of the defendant make them liable, responsible, or at-fault, at least partially or in whole, for the death of the victim. Finally, the liable and negligent actions must have directly attributed to the death of the individual, and in turn, the damages sustained by family members and other loved ones.

[travz21]

Do they treat death the same as suicides? Because that would be semi-ridiculous.

Edit: Extremely ridiculous*

[[TDWP] Jacob]

Elements of Wrongful Death Lawsuit

There are key elements applicable to every wrongful death case. First, a plaintiff must be able to show that an actual death of their loved one occurred. Second, the plaintiff must prove that named defendants were negligent before, during, or after a given event that led to the death of the victim. Third, the negligent actions of the defendant make them liable, responsible, or at-fault, at least partially or in whole, for the death of the victim. Finally, the liable and negligent actions must have directly attributed to the death of the individual, and in turn, the damages sustained by family members and other loved ones.

I don't think that applies here. His suicide was his choice. As sad and terrible it is. It's his fault he is dead. The law stated above would make sense in a case of a parent starving their kid and that led to them dying. Not this. Being negligent and being an ass aren't the same thing.

[Dean]

Suicide is just stupid, though. I can't feel too much emotion for people who go that route.
Why? It takes a lot of damage to get to the point where you genuinely want to kill yourself and it's generally quite tragic if that happens and they then go through with it. It's not really something to take for granted.

[Jen]

The fact remains that Tyler probably would have had no reason to jump in the first place if not for their actions. I am fairly certain it does apply.

[[TDWP] Jacob]

Charging them for his death would be like charging the kids who picked on the Columbine shooters for murder. I believe you are only responsible for the acts you commit. They didn't tell him to jump. He jumped. Thats his actions not theirs. What lead him to doing that is a irrelevant(for lack of a better term)

[travz21]

Why? It takes a lot of damage to get to the point where you genuinely want to kill yourself and it's generally quite tragic if that happens and they then go through with it. It's not really something to take for granted.

Because there's always something worth living for. Whether it be your family, friends, a favorite food, even a TV show. I bet there hasn't been one person in the history of suicides that had absolutely nothing they found enjoyment in.

Plus it's such a weak thing to do. Giving up is not something that should be taken for granted? It's only tragic because they make it so.



Jacob;995121']Charging them for his death would be like charging the kids who picked on the Columbine shooters for murder.

That's actually a very good example.

[Jen]

Ok, well then how do you feel about the case of Megan Meier? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/prosecution-ple/

[travz21]

It's 11:30AM and I haven't been to sleep yet. That article is too long to read right now lol. I think it's about someone or a few people pretending to be someone else online and then basically destroying them. That's in league with relentless bullying and victimizing. When it happens way more than a couple times and you're intent is to hurt the person in some way, then it's a major deal. I still don't think they should be responsible for her suicide. They should be charged with abuse and all that stuff, though. I don't think it's anywhere near the level of a one or two time prank that causes someone to kill themselves. Not even close.

[+ / –]

This. It sucks that people get depressed enough to kill themselves. I feel sorry that their lives were that unpleasant that they had to do something so unbelievably dumb. Suicide is just stupid, though. I can't feel too much emotion for people who go that route. The offenders are nothing more than assholes until it's proven that they were intent on hurting this kid in some way.

I'm going to stray from the topic here and focus on this horribly insensitive comment on suicide.

You can't just group all of us (us being people who have considered, attempted, or actually committed suicide) into a little box. Depression is a very complex thing. In my case, I couldn't (and honestly, still can't) help thoughts of suicide as it's a chemical imbalance in my body.

Depression isn't something you can look at and go, "Oh I'm depressed. I'll stop it now." As hard as you try, sometimes you're just sad and pissed at the world. There are points where it honestly feels like the right thing to do is to just rid yourself of the filth that you believe yourself to be.

I know from personal experience that in the mind of a clinically depressed person suicide sounds perfectly logical. I know there are arguments otherwise and that it's NOT the logical thing to do but when you're in that zone it makes sense. It's how your brain works. There's all that self-loathing and the thoughts of how you have brought nothing but misery upon your family, friends, and anyone who may be associated with you. That the world would be better without you in it. You start thinking of all the money your parents would save if they wouldn't have to take care of you. How your friends would live better lives without having to worry if you're okay. That you aren't deserving of the blessed friends that life has given you. Or that urge to just want to close your eyes and never wake up ever again. When you're clinical depressed (and let it go untreated as I have for most of, if not all of, my life), those are the glasses you view the world with. That mindset is natural.

I spent years perfecting fake smiles. Acting happy so as not to worry the people I love. I created this ideal person in front of others to throw my friends off the scent that something is wrong with me. Because I don't want to worry them. Notice I've changed to the present tense. Because this is still happening. Even today.

I know I've gotten off onto a huge tangent. I apologize. My point is that you can't judge everyone who has entertained suicide or actually committed it. You don't know how s/he feels. You can't understand his/her mindset. Because people like me view the world through a completely different pair of glasses. For a lot of us, me included, it isn't an errant thought. It's persistent. It's there every fucking day. Every god damned minute. It's a battle to get through the day without doing something that you would consider stupid.

So please, back off when calling people who commit suicide stupid. Sometimes in our brains, that's the only way out.

Fuck. This is why I don't like talking about my personal life.

[Dean]

Because there's always something worth living for. Whether it be your family, friends, a favorite food, even a TV show. I bet there hasn't been one person in the history of suicides that had absolutely nothing they found enjoyment in.

Plus it's such a weak thing to do. Giving up is not something that should be taken for granted? It's only tragic because they make it so.
Actually, that sort of helps prove the point I'm about to try and make.

Obviously dying is a point of no return, and if you cross it there's no turning back, no chance for redemption from whatever demons led you to that point. Getting to the point where you feel as though you irrefutably want to die generally isn't easy, not to mention it isn't always the refuge of the mentally healthy, and I've never really understood the logic behind people's claims that it is. If anything, deciding that you have nothing left to live for, rightly or wrongly, is a decision that carries a fuckload of weight. If you feel there's always something to live for that's all the more reason to sympathise with people who are on that path and those who've already reached the end, rather than scorn them.

[.Amanda.]

I recieved the following email from the President of the University today:



A Tragedy at Rutgers

Members of the Rutgers Community:

I deeply regret that today we learned from the family of one of our
students that they believe their son has committed suicide. We are
profoundly saddened by this report, and our hearts and prayers are with
the parents, family, and friends of this young man, who had started at
Rutgers this semester as a first-year student on the New Brunswick campus.

While there is a lot of information being communicated, we don’t have
all the facts in this case.

This young man was reportedly the victim of an incident that took place
in one of our residence halls last week. Two fellow Rutgers students
have been arrested and charged with invasion of privacy for their
actions in that incident. If the charges are true, these actions gravely
violate the university’s standards of decency and humanity.

The case is being investigated by the Rutgers University Police
Department. The students—like all who are accused of a crime—must be
presumed innocent until proven guilty. The case is also being
investigated by the Office of the Vice President for Student Affairs
under the code of student conduct. Please know that while Rutgers does
not comment publicly on the specifics of cases involving active criminal
investigations and allegations of student conduct, the university is
taking this case very seriously.

We extend our heartfelt sympathies to the family during this most
difficult time. While I did not have the privilege of knowing this young
man, I have learned that in addition to his academic abilities, he was a
gifted musician. Our university community feels the pain of his loss,
and I know there is anger and outrage about these events.

Rutgers is a community that is extraordinarily proud of its diversity
and the respect its members have for one another. In fact, we have just
launched a two-year dialogue focusing attention on civility in the
context of one of the most culturally and racially diverse research
universities in the nation. I ask that all members of the Rutgers
community honor the wishes of the family by providing them with privacy
during this painful time and by committing to the values of civility,
dignity, compassion, and respect for each other.

Richard L. McCormick
President
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey

[+ / –]

I'm going to stray from the topic here and focus on this horribly insensitive comment on suicide.

You can't just group all of us (us being people who have considered, attempted, or actually committed suicide) into a little box. Depression is a very complex thing. In my case, I couldn't (and honestly, still can't) help thoughts of suicide as it's a chemical imbalance in my body.

Depression isn't something you can look at and go, "Oh I'm depressed. I'll stop it now." As hard as you try, sometimes you're just sad and pissed at the world. There are points where it honestly feels like the right thing to do is to just rid yourself of the filth that you believe yourself to be.

I know from personal experience that in the mind of a clinically depressed person suicide sounds perfectly logical. I know there are arguments otherwise and that it's NOT the logical thing to do but when you're in that zone it makes sense. It's how your brain works. There's all that self-loathing and the thoughts of how you have brought nothing but misery upon your family, friends, and anyone who may be associated with you. That the world would be better without you in it. You start thinking of all the money your parents would save if they wouldn't have to take care of you. How your friends would live better lives without having to worry if you're okay. That you aren't deserving of the blessed friends that life has given you. Or that urge to just want to close your eyes and never wake up ever again. When you're clinical depressed (and let it go untreated as I have for most of, if not all of, my life), those are the glasses you view the world with. That mindset is natural.

I spent years perfecting fake smiles. Acting happy so as not to worry the people I love. I created this ideal person in front of others to throw my friends off the scent that something is wrong with me. Because I don't want to worry them. Notice I've changed to the present tense. Because this is still happening. Even today.

I know I've gotten off onto a huge tangent. I apologize. My point is that you can't judge everyone who has entertained suicide or actually committed it. You don't know how s/he feels. You can't understand his/her mindset. Because people like me view the world through a completely different pair of glasses. For a lot of us, me included, it isn't an errant thought. It's persistent. It's there every fucking day. Every god damned minute. It's a battle to get through the day without doing something that you would consider stupid.

So please, back off when calling people who commit suicide stupid. Sometimes in our brains, that's the only way out.

Fuck. This is why I don't like talking about my personal life.

I really hate to bump posts for the sake of bumping, but for everyone involved I feel this needs to be read. It's concerning travz21's thoughts on people who commit suicide. I urge you all to please read this, as this will be the last thing I have to say on the subject. Thank you.

[F-ck Casey]

You know, considering she GOES to that school, I'm sure she knows better than Faux News.

Wow, dude. You don't have to be such a dick. I was watching Fox News when the story broke, and the anchor alluded to the guy being filmed masturbating. I wasn't saying she was wrong, jesus christ. Why don't you calm it down?

[Hellions]

Again the prank did not lead to his death. The man's PERSONAL, CONSCIOUS DECISION to jump off a building did.

It's like I brought up privately with somebody in this thread; Let's say hypothetically the other guy is held responsible and criminally charged for the other's suicide. What if, knowing he's going to prison, he decides to kill himself.

Does the prosecutor go to jail? :o

It's a double standard. Because some young kid offed himself, the logical facts like the undeniable CHOICE he made, are ignored, and people jump to hold the "pranksters" accountable.

If you say some kid killing himself is the direct result of a prank you might as well say a kid shooting up his school is the direct result of a video game.

[Dean]

Again the prank did not lead to his death. The man's PERSONAL, CONSCIOUS DECISION to jump off a building did.
You think. It's a question of whether or not what happened drove him to it, and whether or not there was malicious intent there.

[Hellions]

You think. It's a question of whether or not what happened drove him to it, and whether or not there was malicious intent there.

A lot of people drive people to do a lot of things. Everybody has a reason for something. How many cheating girls would be sent to prison for the suicides of guys they fucked over? And vice versa. How many teachers giving life altering exams or study courses would be sent to prison? etc. etc.

[.Amanda.]

You guys are all arguing circular logic. "He killed himself because they did something so he killed himself because they did something and then he killed himself."

The bottom line here is that an 18 year old young man is dead and the culprit is intolerance.

[Hellions]

You guys are all arguing circular logic. "He killed himself because they did something so he killed himself because they did something and then he killed himself."

The bottom line here is that an 18 year old young man is dead and the culprit is intolerance.

I'm not saying what they did is right. In fact until I read the remarks made and realized the guy was apparently homosexual (The article you posted seemed vague until the end) I was taking this even more likely. I was going to write it off as somebody acting irrationally and stupidly killing themselves, but when I realized where he was coming from and put myself in his shoes I understood. The way homosexuals are viewed and treated in society lead to incidents like this and it's completely sickening.

However the others shouldn't be held responsible for the death. Punished by law for invasion of privacy, filming/broadcasting without permission, expelled from school, absolutely. Not for his decision to kill himself, as understandable as it may have been.

[F-ck Casey]

I can't read through 3 pages of this, so I'm going to assume. I'm going to assume this kid didn't have any prior depression problems, and never thought of committing suicide. I'm going to assume the humiliation of the entire school (?) watching him have sex with another man drove him to jump off that bridge. Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well could be.

If I'm right, though, his roommate and that chick should be held responsible. Pranks are one thing, but this just seems very malicious and plain hurtful. They should be expelled, most definitely, but I also think they should serve some kind of jail-time. I'm not talking 25 to life or anything, but a few months in a teenage corrective facility would do just fine. People that do this kind of shit are the scum of the earth, and it's just high school shenanigans at an age and place where you're supposed to be growing into an adult.

I could be wrong about the circumstances, though.

[Dean]

A lot of people drive people to do a lot of things. Everybody has a reason for something. How many cheating girls would be sent to prison for the suicides of guys they fucked over? And vice versa. How many teachers giving life altering exams or study courses would be sent to prison? etc. etc.
Seriously? Cheating on someone or failing someone's exam is hardly the same thing as what's potentially happened here. I'm not saying that his death is directly their fault but if it turns out they were doing it with the intent of fucking him over, and it wasn't just a prank gone wrong, they deserve to shoulder their fair share of the blame.

[.Amanda.]

I can't read through 3 pages of this, so I'm going to assume. I'm going to assume this kid didn't have any prior depression problems, and never thought of committing suicide. I'm going to assume the humiliation of the entire school (?) watching him have sex with another man drove him to jump off that bridge. Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well could be.

If I'm right, though, his roommate and that chick should be held responsible. Pranks are one thing, but this just seems very malicious and plain hurtful. They should be expelled, most definitely, but I also think they should serve some kind of jail-time. I'm not talking 25 to life or anything, but a few months in a teenage corrective facility would do just fine. People that do this kind of shit are the scum of the earth, and it's just high school shenanigans at an age and place where you're supposed to be growing into an adult.

I could be wrong about the circumstances, though.
This x100000000

[Louis]

I can't read through 3 pages of this, so I'm going to assume. I'm going to assume this kid didn't have any prior depression problems, and never thought of committing suicide. I'm going to assume the humiliation of the entire school (?) watching him have sex with another man drove him to jump off that bridge. Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well could be.

If I'm right, though, his roommate and that chick should be held responsible. Pranks are one thing, but this just seems very malicious and plain hurtful. They should be expelled, most definitely, but I also think they should serve some kind of jail-time. I'm not talking 25 to life or anything, but a few months in a teenage corrective facility would do just fine. People that do this kind of shit are the scum of the earth, and it's just high school shenanigans at an age and place where you're supposed to be growing into an adult.

I could be wrong about the circumstances, though.

I'm right with you on that one.

[Hellions]

Seriously? Cheating on someone or failing someone's exam is hardly the same thing as what's potentially happened here. I'm not saying that his death is directly their fault but if it turns out they were doing it with the intent of fucking him over, and it wasn't just a prank gone wrong, they deserve to shoulder their fair share of the blame.

I don't personally know enough about what happened just from reading this thread. If somebody just turned on a webcam and thought it would be funny, no it's not malicious. If it was done from a homophobic stance, it was. The Twitter twats just point out that he's with a "dude", and don't necessarily make any point for or against that fact clear.

[F-ck Casey]

"Yeah, ha-ha, let's set up a secret hidden webcam and film my roommate having sex with a guy and broadcast it to the whole school. IT'LL BE A RIOT!"

Are you kidding me right now?

[.Amanda.]

The Twitter twats just point out that he's with a "dude", and don't necessarily make any point for or against that fact clear.
I feel as though the sarcastic "yay" was enough.

[Hellions]

"Yeah, ha-ha, let's set up a secret hidden webcam and film my roommate having sex with a guy and broadcast it to the whole school. IT'LL BE A RIOT!"

Are you kidding me right now?

3KXsRpakErU

lol wat

[F-ck Casey]

yeah, let's bring some more jokes into this topic and run it into the ground why don't ya.

[Timothy]

3KXsRpakErU

lol wat

Yeah, that situation is totally comparable.

[Hellions]

yeah, let's bring some more jokes into this topic and run it into the ground why don't ya.

Yeah, let's ignore some valid points why don't ya.

Clearly there's a market for that sense of "humor". I'm saying these kids were probably in some dumbass American Pie-esque warped view of what college is and found humor in that sort of thing.

[Louis]

Everyone: Calm it down. If you have nothing serious or legitimate to contribute, then don't post in here at all.

The video was unnecessary, Hellions.

[Hellions]

Everyone: Calm it down. If you have nothing serious or legitimate to contribute, then don't post in here at all.

The video was unnecessary, Hellions.

The video was entirely necessary. Learn 2 logical reasoning and connection makingz maybeh?

[.Amanda.]

The video was entirely necessary. Learn 2 logical reasoning and connection makingz maybeh?
Wow. Way to talk shit to a mod when he was trying to be nice.
A+, sir, A+.

[Hellions]

Wow. Way to talk shit to a mod when he was trying to be nice.
A+, sir, A+.

Well after rapid-fire misunderstandings of my post I have to question intelligence or at least ability to make inferences. Sorry.

[Louis]

The video was entirely necessary. Learn 2 logical reasoning and connection makingz maybeh?

I watched the video and it *barely* relates to the matter at hand. This is not the place to be sarcastic.

Next time you speak with that sort of demeanor it's an infraction. It's disrespectful, so watch it.

[+ / –]

The video was entirely necessary. Learn 2 logical reasoning and connection makingz maybeh?

Because a post appended with 'lol wat' makes everyone think 'this guy is trying to make logical connections to the topic at hand'.

[Hellions]

Because a post appended with 'lol wat' makes everyone think 'this guy is trying to make logical connections to the topic at hand'.

Because a post out of motherfucking nowhere to single out one person is completely sincere and making legitimate topical conversation.

[Hellions]

I watched the video and it *barely* relates to the matter at hand. This is not the place to be sarcastic.

Next time you speak with that sort of demeanor it's an infraction. It's disrespectful, so watch it.

Who the fuck is being sarcastic? Can you read for fuck's sake?

[Louis]

Enough. Any more of this and there will be consequences. I will close this thread if I have to.

[Timothy]

So, conflating two completely different scenarios (one from a teen comedy) is logical?


EDIT: Just saw Louis' post. I'll bow out of this one.

[Derek The Infamous]

I don't personally know enough about what happened just from reading this thread. If somebody just turned on a webcam and thought it would be funny, no it's not malicious. If it was done from a homophobic stance, it was. The Twitter twats just point out that he's with a "dude", and don't necessarily make any point for or against that fact clear.
The fact they blatantly went out of their way to make it clear he was with a dude over twitter, and told people (as the articles about it state) to watch at a certain time to see him live on webcam, means they were mocking him for being a homosexual and hating on him for that reason. If his homosexuality wasn't a big deal, they wouldn't make an effort to state he was with a dude. This is all about homophobia and harassing someone because of their sexual preferences and beliefs on love.

Sure they didn't push him off that bridge, but the extreme humiliation of being mocked for who/what he was...and knowing that he would be the subject of intense ridicule from that point forward certainly helped in his decision to kill himself. Imagine everyone finding out something embarrassing about you Adam, and then making sure all corners of the internet knew about it. Sure it may seem it was just contained to Rutgers, but for all we know, people from that school told their friends...and their friends told their friends, and so forth. The sheer embarrassment over this would be enough to make anybody contemplate killing themselves.

The kids deserve jailtime. Whether it be over his death, or invasion of privacy...these intolerant bastards need to be criminally punished. Intolerance is a terrible thing.

[.Amanda.]

OH. MY. GOD.
EVERYONE. STOP.

THIS THREAD'S PURPOSE IS NOT FOR ALL OF YOU TO FUCKING GANG UP ON EACH OTHER.
Way to be completely disrespectful to the entire situation and make a joke of someone's death.
Unbelievable.

[+ / –]

Yes, out of nowhere. That's why my whole wall of text post pertaining to suicide is in here, because I came in here for no reason at all.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND, the argument of the prosecutor and a suicide in jail does not hold up as a valid analogy. Whether or not the prosecutor is the one who puts the guilty in jail, it is the defendant that is ultimately responsible for the situation he's in.

[Jeff]

OH. MY. GOD.
EVERYONE. STOP.

THIS THREAD'S PURPOSE IS NOT FOR ALL OF YOU TO FUCKING GANG UP ON EACH OTHER.
Way to be completely disrespectful to the entire situation and make a joke of someone's death.
Unbelievable.

This.

[Hellions]

So, conflating two completely different scenarios (one from a teen comedy) is logical?

Okay, I guess I fucking do have to spoonfeed this shit;

I made the remark that it could've been for non-malicious humor.

Casey said "are you kidding me"

I posted the video, then explained:

Clearly there's a market for that sense of "humor". I'm saying these kids were probably in some dumbass American Pie-esque warped view of what college is and found humor in that sort of thing.


READ.

[Jen]

OH. MY. GOD.
EVERYONE. STOP.

THIS THREAD'S PURPOSE IS NOT FOR ALL OF YOU TO FUCKING GANG UP ON EACH OTHER.
Way to be completely disrespectful to the entire situation and make a joke of someone's death.
Unbelievable.

Agreed.

[+ / –]

I sense this thread is closing due to people unable to move on from petty squabbling. /cough

In any case, RIP Tyler. Figure despite my heartfelt post about suicide above, I should end on a mournful note rather than deal with what's going on here before this thread closes.

[.Amanda.]

STOP[

[Louis]

Yes. This thread is closed until further notice. Derek, check your PM. Now.

[Derek The Infamous]

After handling the unpleasantness in this thread, we are going to re-open it with caution in the hopes that this entire debate can be discussed civilly. Please try to express your opinions with respect, and please try to keep everything civilized. We were doing very well in this thread (considering its controversial subject matter) until just recentely. So lets try to go back to keeping it that way.

[Louis]

Before any one posts, I'm going to say a few things:

First of all, as you all might have seen, Hellions has been banned. He was on his 2nd infraction and he received his third for outright disrespecting not only members of these forums, but members of staff.

Let that be a lesson to you all that such disrespect is not tolerated on these forums, and that any such disrespect will result in an infraction.

Second, it is a shame that this thread had to end up turning into a flame-war. This thread is about the tragic event of someone taking his own life in the face of utter humiliation, and it became about who was right and who was wrong and we had to witness utter disrespect of not only other people on these forums, but disrespect to a tragedy that has impacted many of Rutgers students, as well as college students around the world. For someone to take his own life in itself is tragic, but for it to be the result of something like a live internet feed of him having sex with someone of the same sex...it is absolutely awful, and we should not forget that when we are discussing the topic.

I am re-opening the thread now that one member has been banned and we've hopefully had some time to calm down. If anything like this happens again, we will close this thread for good and forbid any new threads on the topic. We are not afraid to hand out warnings and infractions as we see fit if we have to. Please resume the discussion and stay on the topic, and most importantly, be respectful of others.

Thank you,
Staff

[Andrea]

I think you forgot to re-open the thread Louis lol. I'll re-open it now since it still says closed.

[Louis]

I think you forgot to re-open the thread Louis lol. I'll re-open it now since it still says closed.

It said I re-opened it. Weird. Oh well, so long as it's fixed. Thanks Andrea.

[Todd]

n00b :lol:

[Jeff]

n00b :lol:

Wurd :cool:

[.Amanda.]

[/thread derailed]

[Louis]

Anyway, getting back on topic:

Amanda, do you know if there is going to be any sort of event at the school in honor of his memory or something like that?

[Jeff]

Anyway, getting back on topic:

Amanda, do you know if there is going to be any sort of event at the school in honor of his memory or something like that?

Yeah, I hope there will be.

[Dean]

Well, it sucks terribly that the guy died that way whatever the circumstances and it really was upsetting to hear, and my sincerest condolences go out to him and everyone who's been affected badly by what happened. Just thought I'd say that after all the arguing.

[Todd]

What these two people did are terrible, but everyone (not necessarily on the LPA) who is calling for them to be locked away for life and whatever needs to realize that there just simply aren't the laws there to prosecute them with. There was a case here in St. Louis a few years back that probably made national headlines....some mother created a fake MySpace account of a teenage boy and used it to bully someone who went to her daughter's school - starting up a relationship with her and then eventually saying horrible things, and then the girl killed herself. The mother who did that is a sick fuck and a worthless waste of space on this planet. And people were calling for her to get the death penalty (and the DP is a whole 'nother argument I'm not getting in to), or to get life with no parole, stuff like that. But ultimately, she got charged with some obscure law in relation to the MySpace account, something like unauthorized use of a computer account, which carried a small penalty like probation and a fine, and eventually a judge overturned the conviction because even charging her with that crime was a stretch. And I fully support that, because if the law's not there, it's not there, and you can't just make up a law to prosecute someone with. And I imagine that will be the case here, they'll get charged with invasion of privacy, and maybe spend a few months in jail and go on probation, but that's going to be it. I'm sure there will be a civil suit for wrongful death, and that's another matter, but criminally, there's not much to charge them with.

But look on the bright side...in jail, they'd have 3 meals a day, a place to sleep, and some sort of protection from the outside world. But with little or no jailtime, they're for sure getting kicked out of Rutgers. They're not likely to be accepted into any other college. Their names and faces are plastered all over the news. They probably won't be able to get a job, no landlord will want to rent to them, and hopefully their family will tell them to fuck right off when they come for help, and their friends, well, if their friends had half a brain, they're no longer their friends. I think that could be almost as bad as jail.

[Theazninvasion68]

Poor Fella. Rest In Peace.

As probably said within the last few pages, A prank is one thing, but to intentionally humiliate a person is disgusting. Honestly, I can't even conceive anything funny about this prank.

I hope his family is doing okay.

[cstebila]

What these two people did are terrible, but everyone (not necessarily on the LPA) who is calling for them to be locked away for life and whatever needs to realize that there just simply aren't the laws there to prosecute them with. There was a case here in St. Louis a few years back that probably made national headlines....some mother created a fake MySpace account of a teenage boy and used it to bully someone who went to her daughter's school - starting up a relationship with her and then eventually saying horrible things, and then the girl killed herself. The mother who did that is a sick fuck and a worthless waste of space on this planet. And people were calling for her to get the death penalty (and the DP is a whole 'nother argument I'm not getting in to), or to get life with no parole, stuff like that. But ultimately, she got charged with some obscure law in relation to the MySpace account, something like unauthorized use of a computer account, which carried a small penalty like probation and a fine, and eventually a judge overturned the conviction because even charging her with that crime was a stretch. And I fully support that, because if the law's not there, it's not there, and you can't just make up a law to prosecute someone with. And I imagine that will be the case here, they'll get charged with invasion of privacy, and maybe spend a few months in jail and go on probation, but that's going to be it. I'm sure there will be a civil suit for wrongful death, and that's another matter, but criminally, there's not much to charge them with.

But look on the bright side...in jail, they'd have 3 meals a day, a place to sleep, and some sort of protection from the outside world. But with little or no jailtime, they're for sure getting kicked out of Rutgers. They're not likely to be accepted into any other college. Their names and faces are plastered all over the news. They probably won't be able to get a job, no landlord will want to rent to them, and hopefully their family will tell them to fuck right off when they come for help, and their friends, well, if their friends had half a brain, they're no longer their friends. I think that could be almost as bad as jail.

While I'm very tired so I'm not going to bother looking it up, I remember reading articles written by most of the mainstream media seeing a few laws were broken. One of them included filming someone during sex without them knowing. Without a doubt there will be mulitples law's broken, and if I remember correctly they face up to 5 years jail time.

[Paul]

Though it's tragic news, I don't feel like anyone should be held accountable for someone committing suicide.

[travz21]

Wtf happened in this thread?

Was it even confirmed that Tyler was in fact kissing or having sex with anyone, much less a guy? It never says in the article. It only shows us what the roommate said on his Twitter account. My friends say stuff like that all the time as jokes about their straight friends. Was Tyler even gay? That little article was pretty poorly written.

And I'm sorry if I offended people who've considered suicide. But I didn't mention anything about it being stupid to consider suicide. Only to commit it. So don't take things the wrong way.

[Louis]

What these two people did are terrible, but everyone (not necessarily on the LPA) who is calling for them to be locked away for life and whatever needs to realize that there just simply aren't the laws there to prosecute them with. There was a case here in St. Louis a few years back that probably made national headlines....some mother created a fake MySpace account of a teenage boy and used it to bully someone who went to her daughter's school - starting up a relationship with her and then eventually saying horrible things, and then the girl killed herself. The mother who did that is a sick fuck and a worthless waste of space on this planet. And people were calling for her to get the death penalty (and the DP is a whole 'nother argument I'm not getting in to), or to get life with no parole, stuff like that. But ultimately, she got charged with some obscure law in relation to the MySpace account, something like unauthorized use of a computer account, which carried a small penalty like probation and a fine, and eventually a judge overturned the conviction because even charging her with that crime was a stretch. And I fully support that, because if the law's not there, it's not there, and you can't just make up a law to prosecute someone with. And I imagine that will be the case here, they'll get charged with invasion of privacy, and maybe spend a few months in jail and go on probation, but that's going to be it. I'm sure there will be a civil suit for wrongful death, and that's another matter, but criminally, there's not much to charge them with.

But look on the bright side...in jail, they'd have 3 meals a day, a place to sleep, and some sort of protection from the outside world. But with little or no jailtime, they're for sure getting kicked out of Rutgers. They're not likely to be accepted into any other college. Their names and faces are plastered all over the news. They probably won't be able to get a job, no landlord will want to rent to them, and hopefully their family will tell them to fuck right off when they come for help, and their friends, well, if their friends had half a brain, they're no longer their friends. I think that could be almost as bad as jail.

I do believe Minus posted the link to that very story. It was either Minus or Casey. Someone with a yellow username.

But you make a very good point. With you on this one.

[.Amanda.]

Let me begin by saying that it was confirmed that e was in fact having sex with another male student (who is now on suicide watch per request of his friends) when the feed was being streamed.

Also, tomorrow at the front of Brower Commons Dining Hall at 10:00AM EST there will be a memorial service for Tyler. All students and civilians are invided to attend. We will all be wearing black.

Tonight at choir rehersal we dedicated the entire night to Tyler. We sang the best I have heard us sing. It was so powerful...

[cstebila]

Let me begin by saying that it was confirmed that e was in fact having sex with another male student (who is now on suicide watch per request of his friends) when the feed was being streamed.

Also, tomorrow at the front of Brower Commons Dining Hall at 10:00AM EST there will be a memorial service for Tyler. All students and civilians are invided to attend. We will all be wearing black.

Tonight at choir rehersal we dedicated the entire night to Tyler. We sang the best I have heard us sing. It was so powerful...

Now that's what I call progression in society. As of some 20 years ago anti-gay sentiment would have been much stronger and you wouldn't see such a reaction from the community at large.

[.Amanda.]

Now that's what I call progression in society. As of some 20 years ago anti-gay sentiment would have been much stronger and you wouldn't see such a reaction from the community at large.
Unfortunately, I have heard rumour that there will be a protest at the service.
It's sad that people feel the need to bring personal agenda and beliefs into a moment of community grieving.
It's a shame.

[cstebila]

Unfortunately, I have heard rumour that there will be a protest at the service.
It's sad that people feel the need to bring personal agenda and beliefs into a moment of community grieving.
It's a shame.

Now THAT is sad. Extremely sad actually, and very maddening.

[Todd]

It's probably the God Hates Fags assholes. They're happy about this. Worthless pieces of shit.....

[cstebila]

It's probably the God Hates Fags assholes. They're happy about this. Worthless pieces of shit.....

I know Westboro all too well :(

[.Amanda.]

I know Westboro all too well :(
Actually going to a counter-protest against them in November in NORTH Brunswick which is right new RU.

[cstebila]

Actually going to a counter-protest against them in November in NORTH Brunswick which is right new RU.

I've read numerous articles by them online, watched their videos, their interviews, and protests, and they make me nothing but sad and angry. That's great about the counter-protest btw!

[travz21]

What I want to know is how people draw the line between hating gay people or African Americans or Latinos, etc. How can you hate some people that are different from you but not everyone? Is it that hard to just view people as people and not categorize them? I feel lucky to view the world as a whole and not in separate pieces.

[Todd]

What I want to know is how people draw the line between hating gay people or African Americans or Latinos, etc. How can you hate some people that are different from you but not everyone? Is it that hard to just view people as people and not categorize them? I feel lucky to view the world as a whole and not in separate pieces.

Sane people know that hating gay people is just as bad as hating African Americans or Latinos. It's the insane ones who think it's OK.

[minuteforce]

It's probably the God Hates Fags assholes. They're happy about this. Worthless pieces of shit.....
Ugh. >.< Frigging Westboro ...

[Todd]

Actually going to a counter-protest against them in November in NORTH Brunswick which is right new RU.

I really think that counter-protesting the Westboro assholes is the wrong thing to do. They thrive on attention, and a huge counter protest across the street gets them the attention and media coverage. I bet if everyone ignored them, didn't cover them in the media, didn't counter protest, and pretended they didn't exist, they would stop doing this shit.

[+ / –]

I really think that counter-protesting the Westboro assholes is the wrong thing to do. They thrive on attention, and a huge counter protest across the street gets them the attention and media coverage. I bet if everyone ignored them, didn't cover them in the media, didn't counter protest, and pretended they didn't exist, they would stop doing this shit.

You can't count on irrational people like WBC acting rationally to rational actions. They'd still do it, and sadly there's nothing we can do about it.

[Rocky]

I'm gonna have to say that even though Helions was banned, he was right on the money. Same with Travz21

I don't care who the hell you are and what the hell somebody did to you, but you have to have really shitty self-esteem to go hang yourself or jump off a bridge because you don't listen to the "sticks and stones" saying, or if you think a sex tape is the end of the world for you.

I remember being 17 and really thought of ODing because my dad was a dick and thought I was a complete failure. I was a teenager. At that time it felt like the fucking end. I'm 23, and I see dumb ass shit like this and can't help but be mad because I've been bullied, I've been abused, homeless, had anxiety, depression, and so many problems, and through all of that shit, I'm here. I'm the reason here. And if I would have offed myself it would've been my fault also.

It also makes me shake my head that everything is a hate-crime. If you're white and the victim is black? hate crime. Oh, they're gay? Jewish? Asian? hate crime.

This dude must've totally hated gays while he taped two guys getting it on. Being a dick and being a homophobe is totally different.

[Derek The Infamous]

Well apparently it wasn't just a dude who taped it, one of the culprits was a woman, which to me was even more surprising as I've found women to be less intolerant then men on a lot of things.

And sure you're strong Rocky, and yes you may be able to handle the abuse...but we don't know how this kid was feeling. We don't know if he had a bad childhood like you did, or even worse...what he went through in school. He may also have been mentally unstable which is why he killed himself so quickly after the fact. Not everyone can handle abuse the same. Some people (like me) are subjected to physical abuse and mental/emotional pain during school and take it just fine...others snap and shoot up an entire school. Not everyone responds to the pain the same way. Am I saying he was right to kill himself, or that the school shooters were justified? No. Suicide/violence is never the right way out of anything. However, people can't criticize or judge the kid just because they wouldn't have handled it the same way. Everyone's different.

[+ / –]

I'm gonna have to say that even though Helions was banned, he was right on the money. Same with Travz21

I don't care who the hell you are and what the hell somebody did to you, but you have to have really shitty self-esteem to go hang yourself or jump off a bridge because you don't listen to the "sticks and stones" saying, or if you think a sex tape is the end of the world for you.

I remember being 17 and really thought of ODing because my dad was a dick and thought I was a complete failure. I was a teenager. At that time it felt like the fucking end. I'm 23, and I see dumb ass shit like this and can't help but be mad because I've been bullied, I've been abused, homeless, had anxiety, depression, and so many problems, and through all of that shit, I'm here. I'm the reason here. And if I would have offed myself it would've been my fault also.

It also makes me shake my head that everything is a hate-crime. If you're white and the victim is black? hate crime. Oh, they're gay? Jewish? Asian? hate crime.

This dude must've totally hated gays while he taped two guys getting it on. Being a dick and being a homophobe is totally different.

You should read the wall of text post I wrote in here. Stop judging.

[Derek The Infamous]

You should read the wall of text post I wrote in here. Stop judging.

http://www.lpassociation.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32249&p=995138&viewfull=1#post995138

Linked for Minus.

[+ / –]

http://www.lpassociation.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32249&p=995138&viewfull=1#post995138

Linked for Minus.

Thank you. I complete forgot to do that.

I've been scrolling through the news and found that this is the 4th teen suicide related to LGBT in the past month. Very disheartening.

[Derek The Infamous]

Thank you. I complete forgot to do that.

I've been scrolling through the news and found that this is the 4th teen suicide related to LGBT in the past month. Very disheartening.

Read that too. Intolerance is something that bothers me greatly. Despite my ethnicity (I'm white), and the fact I'm straight...it's still something that angers me and bothers me to the core. Maybe I was raised to be fair, but I cannot see why someone's choice of sexuality...or the way they look/dress is fair reason to judge them or put them through such humiliation. It angers me that after all the civil rights battles that have been waged in this country over the past 100 plus years, that racism/homophobia is still present in today's society. You'd think that as a country we'd learn to get past this, given the past. It's just disgusting.

[.Amanda.]

The service this morning was nice. It poured. The protesters never showed.
It was huge. All of College Ave was blocked off.

[Rocky]

You should read the wall of text post I wrote in here. Stop judging.

I read your gigantic post about your depression yesterday. It has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. If I'm judging, I'm certainly not judging clinically depressed people. I'm judging your average teenagers. Did you read that thing about the fact that I HAVE BEEN DEPRESSED AND ONCE TRIED TO OVERDOSE WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER?

People don't seem to understand that the people in this case and recent suicide cases are teenagers, and the mindset of teenagers are NOT the same as adults. If Tyler were 23, there'd be a good chance he would be alive. I don't know how old you are, but I'm sure plenty of people can say that when they were 13-20, they were pretty much kids. They thought like a kid. His room-mate thought being so boldly disrespectful was just an awesome prank, while Tyler obviously thought it was the end of the world for him. It's immaturity.

And to Derek... I really wasn't very strong. And I know that not everyone is the same, but even though these things make me sad, I feel sad because these kids didn't see the reason to live. I feel like they should be here, and this would have made them a stronger person. Like, this shit is REALLY disheartening to me.
As much as I believe that we should teach kids about tolerance and respect more often, I also believe that we should teach kids about confidence and self-esteem as much as we teach kids not to do drugs. I think that would help kids a hell of a lot.

[.Amanda.]

If Tyler were 23, there'd be a good chance he would be alive.

You cannot POSSIBLY make a claim like that. Depression can strike anyone of any age.

Also, from what I understand from his closer friends his parents were very strictly religious (Roman Catholic) and if they ever found out about his orientation he would have been cut off entirely. Music was his life and if he could no longer afford to study here, that was it for him.

Imagine losing your family and the one thing you cling to in life in the same day?

To him, death was the only way out.

[Rocky]

You cannot POSSIBLY make a claim like that. Depression can strike anyone of any age.

Also, from what I understand from his closer friends his parents were very strictly religious (Roman Catholic) and if they ever found out about his orientation he would have been cut off entirely. Music was his life and if he could no longer afford to study here, that was it for him.

Imagine losing your family and the one thing you cling to in life in the same day?

To him, death was the only way out.

then let me say that there would be a better chance. Not a "good" chance

[Derek The Infamous]

I've never told anybody on LPA about this before...not except some of my closest friends. Many of you probably never knew this happened to me, and even some staff are probably unaware about this.

However, to truly help people understand how bullying can affect someone, you need to know what happened to me. This is the closest I ever got to feeling like that kid, and feeling like I had no way out. However, thankfully I had a very loving family and small circle of friends who pulled me through and made me who I am today. I owe everything to them.

Written when I was only 15 (pre-LPA and almost 10 years ago):

I guess you could say the negative side of life shined its ugly face on me since the day I hit the 5th grade. I never did fit in all too well; something about my personality and the way I was, seemed to bother people. At times it would seem my very existence got under their skin and irritated them until they felt the need to lash out at me in the form of insults, taunts and even at times, with their fists. Even teachers got involved in the teasing, at times making a public mockery out of me in the middle of class. At one time I felt like getting up out of my seat and punching the teacher right in the face, but I bit my lip and just put my head down, pretending I wasn't even in the room as it all went on.

I wasn't a strong kid mostly, I didn't finish first in the mile and emotionally I was as weak as a twig. I grew up not knowing that people could treat others so negatively. I never knew someone could find such joy in making someone else's life such a living hell, which is why I guess you could say I never quite did take not fitting in, all that well. People who took the time to know me, knew me as a charismatic and highly misunderstood individual. I had some friends, not many but I held tight to the circle of friends I had to keep me sane inside.

The abuse from my peers managed to get to me on several occasions, twice I can remember physically and emotionally breaking down inside and losing it right there, once actually breaking down in class and having to go to therapy for a few weeks because I was so fucked up. I remember when I had to find a metaphor to describe myself I said "I feel like I'm trapped inside a dark box, unable to get out." it was clear I wasn't happy with how people thought of me and it was slowly tearing me down inside.

I went through the chaotic bullshit for the next two years after sixth grade until the end of the 8th grade school year. I remember it all so well. I sat down in my seat on the bus, heading home from a field trip from a science museum. I was aware that my biggest enemy Steven Rutter was behind me, but I purposely did not give him the satisfaction of even acknowledging he was there. I tried to ignore his taunts about how much of a loser I was and the various names he felt like calling me. I ignored it as several people joined in on the taunts, calling me the worst things imaginable, and probably every name in the book.

It was then that I felt it, that sharp pain in the back of my shoulder that I will never forget. The coward had punched me as hard as he could in the back of my shoulder bone. Bam, I felt it again, only this time much harder and painful then the last. Biting my lip because it hurt so bad, I braced myself for the next hour as he relentlessly punched me in the back, sometimes punching me more then 5 times in a single minute, until the total amount of punches reached well over fifty.

I tried calling out to the teachers at the front of the bus, doing anything I could to stop this but nothing happened. I felt them smear food and Bengay (muscle cream) in my hair dumping food on me and doing whatever they could to fuck me up. The person sitting next to me told me I should tell the teachers but there was nothing I could do to fix it, I sat there helplessly as I felt myself get punched repeatedly, watching them take my lunch bag only to have it smacked back in my face. I held back the tears, as I didn't want to seem weak, although the pain was so horrible it felt like I was bleeding from my shoulder.

After an hour of torment, relief was found, my school was on the horizon and after the bus stopped I rushed off the bus as fast as I could, running to the bathroom because I felt I was going to throw up. They had taken my pride away from me, they had stripped me down of any feeling until the point I was numb to my surroundings. As I sat in the school office, on direct orders not to get anywhere near Steven or anyone who beat me up, I found myself asking why god had let this happen to me, as I had temporarily lost all function in my left arm from the attacks. As much as I tried to move it I found it was just too much and I collapsed back in my seat, running out of the school as fast as I could when the bell rang.

It was there waiting for my dad to pick me up that I cried over this for the first time, I blew off anyone who asked me what was wrong as at the time I felt they could seriously care less what was wrong with me. They hadn't for the 2 years I was in Junior High School why would they now? I heard the loud exhaust of my dad's RX-7, and I rushed into the car, not responding to any questions he had about how my day went, the day's conversation going uncomfortably silent.

It was about 3 minutes before I managed to even blurt the fact that I had been physically abused by the kids in my school. I knew he wouldn't be happy to hear about it, so once I told him he angrily slammed on the brakes speeding in reverse to the cop car at the top of the hill so I could tell them what had happened to me exactly.

The next few months we're eventful. My dad pulled me out of school and placed me into home school having heard from the principal of my school that there was no way they could protect me on school grounds or hire security, which I believe was bullshit. The first day I went back to school after the incident (since it had happened in May) was hard as most kids didn't care that I had gone through an emotional crisis, but instead managed to find joke in the fact that I 'got my arm broken', which led me to bitch towards some people who seriously didn't deserve it, but who was I to care anymore? Two more days and then I'd be gone for good.

Summer flew by slowly and it was by the end of that I would find out that Steve had received many hours of community service, a police escort to school and a huge mark on his record. Meaning that in the event he'd screw up again, he would be going to a juvenile correction facility. Which is just about the best thing for that son of a bitch.

[Jeff]

Damn.

I remember being the school target back in Jr. High. That was probably the worst time in my life. That and the abuse I got at home from my siblings. Pretty much fucked my self esteem for good. :/

[Todd]

I've never told anybody on LPA about this before...not except some of my closest friends. Many of you probably never knew this happened to me, and even some staff are probably unaware about this.

However, to truly help people understand how bullying can affect someone, you need to know what happened to me. This is the closest I ever got to feeling like that kid, and feeling like I had no way out. However, thankfully I had a very loving family and small circle of friends who pulled me through and made me who I am today. I owe everything to them.

Written when I was only 15 (pre-LPA and almost 10 years ago):

Wow...never knew you went through anything like that. It's tough. I was bullied quite a bit in elementary school, it really is horrible and those who haven't been through it don't know what it's like. Perhaps the most liberating thing for me was finally growing the balls to defend myself, and that I did. End up breaking some kid's arm in self defense, this is the gods honest truth. Didn't face one day of suspension and it was the most liberating thing ever in school and ever since that much of the bullying stopped and by high school I was fine. Sadly, kids these days don't even have that luxury with this zero tolerance for fighting bullshit where all parties get equal punishment (few days suspension usually) even if some poor kid is acting in self defense.

Also, for the Rutgers student who killed himself, anyone criticizing him or needs to remember something. He was a freshman in college. This is his first time in a hard school, his first time away from home for a long period of time. He's in a strange place, starting over making new friends. And some of the freshman courses can be some of the hardest classes you'll take in your first 4 years of college (they're called weed out classes, to force the ones aren't capable to drop out). Even without this whole mess with the video, it is very, very tough and it does drive some people to suicide, or to have a mental breakdown and do crazy things....I've seen it. When I was in college, a student had a breakdown and ended up taking a knife and a bag of powdered sugar into one of the campus buildings and claimed it was anthrax and threatened everybody. We all laughed it off then, especially because they locked down campus and we got the day off, but in all seriousness, the kid was going through some extremely tough times (nevermind the fact that he was from India and was in rural Missouri, halfway around the world from his family, the only people who might be able to give him comfort), and he was probably trying to do suicide by cop (he ended up getting arrested and subsequently sent back home to India to hopefully get the help he needs). When people get stressed out beyond their means like that, they'll do anything to make the stress go away. He was already dealing with the huge amount of stress that being a freshman in college brings, and the video just made it even worse.

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Bullying is hard for anyone who is a victim of it, regardless what their age may be. But it's up to you, the victim, to do something about it, tell someone, do something like don't associate yourself with them anymore, or be like me and just move town if you think it's that extreme. I've seen some extreme bullying in my years in high school and I can say now, I can totally see why this student did what he did.

[cstebila]

Derek,

I didn't know any of that, and honestly I'm very happy you shared it. I've been going through horrible times recently, and I'm hoping I can use your story to help inspire me. I hope I never come across too opinionated here, as sometimes I'm a bit over analytical. I'm kinda a fragile person myself, and am attempting to put back together broken pieces of a life. Your story and courage has inspired me.

Thank you for being you,

Camaren

[Dean]

Bullying is hard for anyone who is a victim of it, regardless what their age may be. But it's up to you, the victim, to do something about it, tell someone, do something like don't associate yourself with them anymore, or be like me and just move town if you think it's that extreme. I've seen some extreme bullying in my years in high school and I can say now, I can totally see why this student did what he did.
Not saying you're wrong, but unfortunately it's not always easy to open up about problems in general, not just bullying. I'm not sure how easy it is for everyone to just up and leave either. If you can do that though then yeah, great.

[Derek The Infamous]

Derek,

I didn't know any of that, and honestly I'm very happy you shared it. I've been going through horrible times recently, and I'm hoping I can use your story to help inspire me. I hope I never come across too opinionated here, as sometimes I'm a bit over analytical. I'm kinda a fragile person myself, and am attempting to put back together broken pieces of a life. Your story and courage has inspired me.

Thank you for being you,

Camaren

I don't know why, but this whole tragedy has personally affected me in a really deep way. It's like...despite being straight, and not knowing how it's like to be gay and persecuted for who I want to be with, I just really feel hurt for this kid and the other kids who have taken their lives this month for similar reasons.

People just don't understand how much it hurts to be made fun of. They don't understand how alone you can feel when it seems like nobody in the world really cares about you and that everyone finds you worthless, unfuckable, a freak, or stupid.

It's a horrible thing to do to a person, and I'm glad my post is opening eyes.

[cstebila]

I don't know why, but this whole tragedy has personally affected me in a really deep way. It's like...despite being straight, and not knowing how it's like to be gay and persecuted for who I want to be with, I just really feel hurt for this kid and the other kids who have taken their lives this month for similar reasons.

People just don't understand how much it hurts to be made fun of. They don't understand how alone you can feel when it seems like nobody in the world really cares about you and that everyone finds you worthless, unfuckable, a freak, or stupid.

It's a horrible thing to do to a person, and I'm glad my post is opening eyes.

Anderson Cooper has been doing some pretty extensive coverage on both the story and bullying. Watching his show last night brought tears to my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgxNItGmiC4

[Derek The Infamous]

Anderson Cooper has been doing some pretty extensive coverage on both the story and bullying. Watching his show last night brought tears to my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgxNItGmiC4
Didn't Anderson Cooper come out a little while ago? I imagine this must be really tough for him.

[cstebila]

Didn't Anderson Cooper come out a little while ago? I imagine this must be really tough for him.

Not sure, from last I heard his sexuality was kept relatively quiet (the masses always assumed he was gay since he wouldn't talk about it) I've heard random discussions saying he lives with another guy, at the same time, he could be bi-sexual, for all we know. I believe Out magazine issued their "honors" to him of some sort, so it's probably safe to say he isn't heterosexual.

I can easily understand his desire to keep the issue away from the spotlight, as its a potential hurt, especially here in the U.S. While I don't see sexuality as a wholesale defining characteristic, just another part of the make up that is the individual (i'm bi, but i'm also an ex-christian) I think its cool to know about a person (if and only if they choose to disclose it) as it helps to understand who they indeed are.

Its likely this could have meant more to him then his general audience because of his potential preferences but at the same time he's covering the issue of bullying with great insight. This coming week I believe he's dedicating a large portion of his program to the issue (not just homophobic bullying).

this segment is different then the previous URL (i believe this one here was pre-taped and will air this coming week)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm0Numi1PzM

[minuteforce]

^ It's been taken down. ;x

[Gloomy Mushroom]

Not saying you're wrong, but unfortunately it's not always easy to open up about problems in general, not just bullying. I'm not sure how easy it is for everyone to just up and leave either. If you can do that though then yeah, great.

I consider being in an abusive relationship a high form of bullying and decent grounds for me to leave the town. God that brings back some tears.

I think I remember telling LPA what Daniel was doing to me....

[Dean]

I consider being in an abusive relationship a high form of bullying and decent grounds for me to leave the town. God that brings back some tears.

I think I remember telling LPA what Daniel was doing to me....
I wasn't doubting that, I was just saying that one way or another not everyone is going to have the means to do it.

[cstebila]

^ It's been taken down. ;x

Hmm, they work for me. Odd...

[Benjamin]

Thank you so much for sharing that story. I myself am going through High School as we speak. It can be tough at times, but I try to stay strong. Like Camaren, I will use this as an inspiration for the future.

Ben

[Derek The Infamous]

Thank you so much for sharing that story. I myself am going through High School as we speak. It can be tough at times, but I try to stay strong. Like Camaren, I will use this as an inspiration for the future.

Ben

I'm not sure if that was directed towards me, but if it was...you're welcome :). I can only hope my story helps people stay strong and convinces those who bully to stop and think again before saying words of hate.

[Benjamin]

I'm not sure if that was directed towards me, but if it was...you're welcome :). I can only hope my story helps people stay strong and convinces those who bully to stop and think again before saying words of hate.

Yes, it was directed to you:lol:

[Dean]

Hmm, they work for me. Odd...
Unfortunately it seems to be blocked outside the USA.

[cstebila]

Found out sad updates on the story. Tyler posted on a very popular gay message board (which hosts adult content so I will NOT be linking) the following:

"so the other night i had a guy over. I had talked to my roommate that afternoon and he had said it would be fine w/him. I checked his twitter today. he tweeted that I was using the room (which is obnoxious enough), AND that he went into somebody else's room and remotely turned on his webcam and saw me making out with a guy. given the angle of the webcam I can be confident that that was all he could have."

"I guess what he was doing was...he was in another person's room, with other people... and so I feel like it was 'look at what a fag my roommate is' ... and the fact that the people he was with saw my making out with a guy as the scandal whereas i mean come on...he was SPYING ON ME....do they see nothing wrong with this?"

a new updated CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/30/new.jersey.student.suicide/index.html?hpt=Sbin (where the following information came from)

[Derek The Infamous]

Found out sad updates on the story. Tyler posted on a very popular gay message board (which hosts adult content so I will NOT be linking) the following:

&quot;so the other night i had a guy over. I had talked to my roommate that afternoon and he had said it would be fine w/him. I checked his twitter today. he tweeted that I was using the room (which is obnoxious enough), AND that he went into somebody else's room and remotely turned on his webcam and saw me making out with a guy. given the angle of the webcam I can be confident that that was all he could have.&quot;

&quot;I guess what he was doing was...he was in another person's room, with other people... and so I feel like it was 'look at what a fag my roommate is' ... and the fact that the people he was with saw my making out with a guy as the scandal whereas i mean come on...he was SPYING ON ME....do they see nothing wrong with this?&quot;

a new updated CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/30/new.jersey.student.suicide/index.html?hpt=Sbin (where the following information came from)

Heartbreaking. :(

[cstebila]

That day, Ravi posted to his 148 Twitter followers, "Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 and 12. Yes it’s happening again," the New Jersey Star-Ledger reported.

This may help reveal the intentions of the suspects, as the use of the phrase "dare you" suggests they find the videostream repulsive.

He said he'd mention the incident to his RA before writing, "and yah, revenge never ends well for me, as much as I would love to pour pink paint all over his stuff.....that would just let him win....."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39456960/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ (source)

[Derek The Infamous]

This was definitely done hatefully after reading that post. I say the kids get charged with involuntary manslaughter (since they didn't kill him, but pushed him to that point) and on hate crimes charges. These assholes need to pay.

[Rocky]

This was definitely done hatefully after reading that post. I say the kids get charged with involuntary manslaughter (since they didn't kill him, but pushed him to that point) and on hate crimes charges. These assholes need to pay.

I'm iffy on the hate-crime charges still. Unless they can prove that he HATES GAYS instead of not liking his gay room-mate, you can't say much...but the "fag" comment will get him either way. Still, Tyler's death is still Tyler's fault. He had time to think about jumping off of a bridge, getting to the bridge, and still thinking it's a good idea to do it. He may have been in one crazy ass emotional state. Some people would have gone into that same state and would murder instead of commit suicide, but if Tyler would have killed Dharun people would be saying "Yeah that was fucked up, but he shouldn't have killed him. He could have thought it over".
Who would be saying "Dharun pushed him to that point by completely embarrassing him and potentially ruining his life"?. Suicide or murder it would still be a sad story, Dharun is an asshole and both of their lives would be ruined.