Sexuality.

[cstebila]

Thoughts? Its that simple.

(If you need more of a catalyst you can discuss subjects such as whether or not sexuality is something that is fluid or static, whether children should or should not be raised by same sex couples, or your personal opinions on it in general.)

I'll start with a question: do you believe sexuality to be something one is born with, or is developed over time?

Also, understanding its a somewhat delicate topic as it quickly turns to debates, lets keep it clean and respectful.

[Dean]

Broadly speaking I would say it's biological and determined early on.

[travz21]

I don't believe people are born gay. I think there are a lot of outside influences that can change a person's sexuality. Things like sexual abuse as a child or bad relationships with the opposite sex could very likely shape a person's preference.

From a scientific standpoint, it seems counterproductive as a species to be born homosexual.

[Snackman]

I don't believe people are born gay. I think there are a lot of outside influences that can change a person's sexuality. Things like sexual abuse as a child or bad relationships with the opposite sex could very likely shape a person's preference.

From a scientific standpoint, it seems counterproductive as a species to be born homosexual.

I totally agree with you.

[Theazninvasion68]

I don't believe people are born gay. I think there are a lot of outside influences that can change a person's sexuality. Things like sexual abuse as a child or bad relationships with the opposite sex could very likely shape a person's preference.

From a scientific standpoint, it seems counterproductive as a species to be born homosexual.

Bingo!

[Dean]

I don't believe people are born gay. I think there are a lot of outside influences that can change a person's sexuality. Things like sexual abuse as a child or bad relationships with the opposite sex could very likely shape a person's preference.

From a scientific standpoint, it seems counterproductive as a species to be born homosexual.
As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong because this isn't my area of expertise), if it isn't solely a genetic trait whether or not it's good for the species doesn't necessarily come into it. If there is a single overriding factor it hasn't been found yet in any case, but for what it's worth most scientists seem to think it comes down to a variety of mainly biological and anatomical factors, and to me that seems to make as much sense as anything.

[Hellions]

I don't believe people are born gay. I think there are a lot of outside influences that can change a person's sexuality. Things like sexual abuse as a child or bad relationships with the opposite sex could very likely shape a person's preference.


This is basically how I see it. I think you can't be "born gay" or "choose" to be gay. I think we're all born with basically a clean slate with no preference, essentially asexual. As we come to an age of sexual maturity and start recognizing people as attractive, depending on any number of influences that are pretty much random chance variables through life they may be of a different sex, the same sex, or both. There's really nowhere you can pinpoint it to and that's just how it is.

[travz21]

As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong because this isn't my area of expertise), if it isn't solely a genetic trait whether or not it's good for the species doesn't necessarily come into it. If there is a single overriding factor it hasn't been found yet in any case, but for what it's worth most scientists seem to think it comes down to a variety of mainly biological and anatomical factors, and to me that seems to make as much sense as anything.


I don't really get what you're trying to say. If you're born homosexual it goes against a species' sole purpose, which is to reproduce.

[Hellions]

I don't really get what you're trying to say. If you're born homosexual it goes against a species' sole purpose, which is to reproduce.

I don't really get the labeling of reproduction as "purpose". That's a man-made decision about a natural, abstract concept. Yeah, it's definitely in a species' best interest to keep itself going, but that doesn't make it its "purpose". Especially not in the case of man kind, in which case it's not only unnecessary but likely detrimental to continue to reproduce at the rate we do, even with variables such as homosexuality.

[Gitsnik]

I'm with Dean for this one.

[travz21]

But it is its main purpose. That's all any species is made to do. That's how evolution works. Species evolve into ways that make it easier for them to survive and reproduce, not into ways to live a more meaningful life. I'm not saying a consciously aware species (humans) are only out to get some tail, but it is hardwired into our brains. If we weren't intelligent beings, we'd be making babies as often as we could.

[Theazninvasion68]

As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong because this isn't my area of expertise), if it isn't solely a genetic trait whether or not it's good for the species doesn't necessarily come into it. If there is a single overriding factor it hasn't been found yet in any case, but for what it's worth most scientists seem to think it comes down to a variety of mainly biological and anatomical factors, and to me that seems to make as much sense as anything.

Homosexual Males exhibit, Anatomically, Similar parts of the Female brain. Such as a larger Anterior Commissure ( The Brain has a left/right Hemisphere, connected by a Corpus Callosum and a Anterior Commissure ) Females and Homosexual males possess similar size (Larger than Straight males.) Not only that, but also the Amygdala as well.

There isn't conclusive evidence to say "Yeah, they've got this gene, therefore, they're going to be homosexual." I don't know enough about the genetics of it though. But a sexual orientation is dependent on Biological (Genes/Predisposition), Psychological (Life experiences/Parenting), and Social ( Interactions ) influences throughout a life-time (...Err...well, up til a point where the person will decide)

The reason why I think Straight Male Brains and Homosexual Male Brains can change is due to Brain Plasticity. (Thus, enabling them to be anatomically different/similar to females).
I'll take a guess that for Homosexual Females, It would be kinda Similar to a Straight Males Brain.



!! TL;DR !!

So yeah. I'm with Travz21. / Dean :lol:

[minuteforce]

If there is a single overriding factor it hasn't been found yet in any case, but for what it's worth most scientists seem to think it comes down to a variety of mainly biological and anatomical factors, and to me that seems to make as much sense as anything.
^ Yeah, I agree with this. :)

[Todd]

I don't believe people are born gay. I think there are a lot of outside influences that can change a person's sexuality. Things like sexual abuse as a child or bad relationships with the opposite sex could very likely shape a person's preference.

From a scientific standpoint, it seems counterproductive as a species to be born homosexual.

It's counterproductive as a species to be born with any other number of things...disability, mental retardation, sterility, etc, but people are.

I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay. Why would anyone choose to be a part of the most discriminated against minority in the US and other countries? It's something they're born with.

[Harlz]

I think, to some degree anyone and everyone has the potential for either heterosexuality or homosexuality. Some are just more heavily (biologically and socially) influenced one way or the other.

After all, sexual pleasure is sexual pleasure. (I say that as a straight male though :lol:)

[Dean]

I don't really get what you're trying to say. If you're born homosexual it goes against a species' sole purpose, which is to reproduce.
What Todd said, I guess. It doesn't necessarily matter because there are plenty of other things you can say the same about, but that doesn't mean they don't happen, and a lot of them come down to things that can happen before birth.

[Louis]

There have been studies proven in mice that when a certain gene was removed they had homosexual tendencies. That, to me, makes it sound like homosexuality (anything apart from being heterosexual, really) is something that is, for the most part, genetically brought on.

I do, however, believe that environmental factors can play a role in someone's sexuality. Certain circumstances can change the way one looks at people in terms of sexual attraction. However, I do not believe that people in this world make the conscious decision to be gay or lesbian or bi or tran or anything. It's something that happens.

Now the question of its development over time is a tricky one, but I really do believe that it's something determined very early on, it's just that that person may not realize it until later in their life, when they truly become aware of who they are attracted to. I had a recent encounter with this because I was actually pursuing this girl and I asked her on a date, and then she confessed to me that she was a lesbian, and she sort of explained to me how it happened over time and how at first she couldn't really believe it but she has come to accept it and knows it is a part of her and who she is.

Sexuality is such a complicated issue particularly because of how everyone looks at it, but I think it's fair to say that it's something people can't help. Whether the majority of its existence in a person has to do with genetics or environment or whatever, I insist that it's not conscious decision. I could never decide that for a day or a year or for the rest of my life that I am going to be gay, because I could never deny to myself that I am not attracted to males and that I am attracted to females.

And even the fact that I separate homosexuality as something existing in people is wrong and I shouldn't say that. Some people are gay, some people are not, and some people are bi and transexual, and that's all there is to it. Everyone is a person no matter what their sexual orientation, and it should not define their personality nor should it alter anyone's view of them.

That's all I've gotta say.

[travz21]

I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay. Why would anyone choose to be a part of the most discriminated against minority in the US and other countries? It's something they're born with.

I don't think it's a conscious choice, obviously, which doesn't really make it a choice at all. It just happens. And there's nothing wrong with being gay. Just because they are discriminated against doesn't mean it's worse to be them.

[Nick]

There have been studies proven in mice that when a certain gene was removed they had homosexual tendencies. That, to me, makes it sound like homosexuality (anything apart from being heterosexual, really) is something that is, for the most part, genetically brought on.

I do, however, believe that environmental factors can play a role in someone's sexuality. Certain circumstances can change the way one looks at people in terms of sexual attraction. However, I do not believe that people in this world make the conscious decision to be gay or lesbian or bi or tran or anything. It's something that happens.

Now the question of its development over time is a tricky one, but I really do believe that it's something determined very early on, it's just that that person may not realize it until later in their life, when they truly become aware of who they are attracted to. I had a recent encounter with this because I was actually pursuing this girl and I asked her on a date, and then she confessed to me that she was a lesbian, and she sort of explained to me how it happened over time and how at first she couldn't really believe it but she has come to accept it and knows it is a part of her and who she is.

Sexuality is such a complicated issue particularly because of how everyone looks at it, but I think it's fair to say that it's something people can't help. Whether the majority of its existence in a person has to do with genetics or environment or whatever, I insist that it's not conscious decision. I could never decide that for a day or a year or for the rest of my life that I am going to be gay, because I could never deny to myself that I am not attracted to males and that I am attracted to females.

And even the fact that I separate homosexuality as something existing in people is wrong and I shouldn't say that. Some people are gay, some people are not, and some people are bi and transexual, and that's all there is to it. Everyone is a person no matter what their sexual orientation, and it should not define their personality nor should it alter anyone's view of them.

That's all I've gotta say.

What he said.

[F-ck Casey]

the answers in this thread really surprise me. people still think other people choose to be homosexual? this really just blows my mind. and that's all i'm going to say on this subject.

[Theazninvasion68]

To choose to be Homosexual is kinda weird. Todd Is right, Why would you choose to be part of the most discriminated minority? I wouldn't say Born with. It'd make more sense if people accepted what sexual orientation they are.

But choosing to be is something that'd make not alotta sense if you'd ask me :lol:

[travz21]

Nobody said they consciously choose. We said we don't think they're born with it.

[El Muerto]

It's counterproductive as a species to be born with any other number of things...disability, mental retardation, sterility, etc, but people are.


So you agree that homosexuality is an illness?

[Louis]

So you agree that homosexuality is an illness?

That's clearly not what he said at all.

What Todd means is that, in terms of reproduction, it is counterproductive for an individual of any species to be born with things like disability, mental retardation, sterility, etc. He's definitely not making the statement that homosexuality is an illness.

So, yeah, don't put words in his mouth.

[Todd]

So you agree that homosexuality is an illness?

No...I did not say that. Louis basically said what I was thinking.

I would consider something that reduces quality of life to be an illness, like down syndrome or other diseases. Being gay isn't unhealthy, it doesn't reduce your quality of life, or shorten your lifespan, or anything of that sort. It's not an illness.

[El Muerto]

That's clearly not what he said at all.

What Todd means is that, in terms of reproduction, it is counterproductive for an individual of any species to be born with things like disability, mental retardation, sterility, etc. He's definitely not making the statement that homosexuality is an illness.

So, yeah, don't put words in his mouth.

He listed illnesses and compared them to homosexuality and I asked them if he thoguht it was an illness too. What's wrong with that? So you don't put words in my mouth.

When American Psychiatric Association's removed homosexuality from their list of disorders, 50 something percent was in favour of the decission and 40 something still thought it was an illness. So if the leading experts in that field can't come to a general concensus about the issue, how the hell can I or you or anybody else know for sure if that's an illness or not?

[Louis]

He listed illnesses and compared them to homosexuality and I asked them if he thoguht it was an illness too. What's wrong with that? So you don't put words in my mouth.

When American Psychiatric Association's removed homosexuality from their list of disorders, 50 something percent was in favour of the decission and 40 something still thought it was an illness. So if the leading experts in that field can't come to a general concensus about the issue, how the hell can I or you or anybody else know for sure if that's an illness or not?

Yes, 'cause everyone who is gay or bisexual or transexual doesn't just happen to be sexually oriented differently than me, but they're sick and I'm not. I'm pretty sure it's not an illness. But, that's my personal viewpoint.

With that said, to even say it's an illness is, in my opinion, narrow-minded and stupid.

[F-ck Casey]

Nobody said they consciously choose. We said we don't think they're born with it.

I don't believe in the "theory" you present, which is apparently situations throughout a person's early to middle life shapes whether they like penis or vagina, or both. What about all of these normal, boring, homosexuals that haven't had a single dark, bad thing happen to them? Some people just naturally swing opposite of the wind, if you get what I mean.

You're born with it. You're never going to convince me different. Scenarios in life don't shape sexuality.

[Switchback]

You're born with it.

Paedophiles can claim the same thing.

[Dean]

Paedophiles can claim the same thing.
wat

[Switchback]

wat
If homosexuals can say they are born that way, paedophiles can say they're born that way, too.

[Dean]

If homosexuals can say they are born that way, paedophiles can say they're born that way, too.
Yeah, I figured you were saying as much. I'm not sure what the point of making that comparison is though.

[F-ck Casey]

Paedophiles can claim the same thing.

Good for them.

[Todd]

Paedophiles can claim the same thing.


...except they're not.

One can say anything, but there's plenty of science behind sexual orientation being something you're born with. Not so much for pedophilia.

[travz21]

It just comes down to the nature vs. nurture argument. There's not really much else to discuss.

[Switchback]

...except they're not.

One can say anything, but there's plenty of science behind sexual orientation being something you're born with. Not so much for pedophilia.

But, they involve the same thing.

[El Muerto]

but there's plenty of science behind sexual orientation being something you're born with.

But that's exactly what I was telling you, there's not as much science behind it as you think. Just google it and see what real experts say on the issue and not politicians and lobbyists.

It's still around 50-50 among doctors and scientists and either there's something so difficult to figure out about homosexuality or one side has some political or whatever other motivation to claim what they are claiming.

[Dean]

But, they involve the same thing.
No. Paedophilia is widely considered to be a psychiatric disorder. Homosexuality isn't. And even if they do have similar causes, the morals are completely different anyway, so whatever the cause is the comparison is kind of a non-starter.


But that's exactly what I was telling you, there's not as much science behind it as you think. Just google it and see what real experts say on the issue and not politicians and lobbyists.

It's still around 50-50 among doctors and scientists and either there's something so difficult to figure out about homosexuality or one side has some political or whatever other motivation to claim what they are claiming.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homosexuality

There's a good article with plenty of links and sources. You're welcome.

[Meryl_]

Scenarios in life don't shape sexuality.
Hum no. There are examples of women who would turn 'lesbians' after being raped. I mostly agree with you - that you can be born gay - but I also believe that for some people their sexuality had been influenced by scenarios and relationships they had as a kid, teenager, etc. Another woman being raped, won't turn to women after that, so it's hard to make assumptions about who is right or wrong here.

[Switchback]

No. Paedophilia is widely considered to be a psychiatric disorder. Homosexuality isn't. And even if they do have similar causes, the morals are completely different anyway, so whatever the cause is the comparison is kind of a non-starter.


Because it isn't widely considered to be a disorder? It was, before.
The morals are different, of course. However, it would be hypocritical to say one without the other.

[F-ck Casey]

Hum no. There are examples of women who would turn 'lesbians' after being raped. I mostly agree with you - that you can be born gay - but I also believe that for some people their sexuality had been influenced by scenarios and relationships they had as a kid, teenager, etc. Another woman being raped, won't turn to women after that, so it's hard to make assumptions about who is right or wrong here.

It was in their DNA, genes, whatever, from birth to be that way. It just took a "traumatic" event for, what appears to be a transformation, on the surface, to take place. But, it's really not a transformation at all, because more often times than not you hear these same people recall later in life, "oh, well, i think i've always been this way", etc etc.

In conclusion. Scenarios in life don't shape sexuality. Not in my mind. Sorry guy/girl.

[Dean]

Because it isn't widely considered to be a disorder? It was, before.
The morals are different, of course. However, it would be hypocritical to say one without the other.
Yeah, people used to believe lots of things. That doesn't prove anything. I'm still not completely sure what the point of comparing it to paedophilia in particular was.

[Meryl_]

It was in their DNA, genes, whatever, from birth to be that way. It just took a "traumatic" event for, what appears to be a transformation, on the surface, to take place. But, it's really not a transformation at all, because more often times than not you hear these same people recall later in life, "oh, well, i think i've always been this way", etc etc.

In conclusion. Scenarios in life don't shape sexuality. Not in my mind. Sorry guy/girl.

Well maybe they were bi at the beginning, I can give you that.

[11:54]

You are not born with homosexuality, and that's my opinion.

[Switchback]

Yeah, people used to believe lots of things. That doesn't prove anything. I'm still not completely sure what the point of comparing it to paedophilia in particular was.

I know, but as you were stating it's not considered a disorder, therefore doesn't count. But, since it once was, and these things can change, we can't use that as a basis of reasoning.

I'm not aiming to change anyone's views, I was just pointing out it would be hypocritical to say you're born homosexual, and then refute paedophiles who may claim the same thing. It involves the same mechanisms and thought processes.

[Meryl_]

It involves the same mechanisms and thought processes.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
I'm sorry but wanting to have sex with someone who has the same gender as you, and being excited with pictures of little kids nudes and raped doesn't involved the same mechanism and thought processus. Have you really thought about what you just wrote here?

[travz21]

They don't involve the same thought processes, but they are both out of the norm. That's why gays get a bad rap. People think because it's not their version of "normal", that something must be wrong with them. It's happened throughout history with all different kinds of labels on people. Slaves, Jews, American Indians, etc.

Some people are about as narrow-minded about that stuff as LP's new cd.

[Switchback]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
I'm sorry but wanting to have sex with someone who has the same gender as you, and being excited with pictures of little kids nudes and raped doesn't involved the same mechanism and thought processus. Have you really thought about what you just wrote here?

I meant regarding sexual desires. I probably used the wrong wording.

[Dean]

I meant regarding sexual desires. I probably used the wrong wording.
That doesn't automatically mean that they always have the same/similar causes though. For want of a better way of putting it, paedophilia is a fetish for children. You aren't born with a fetish, and you don't instinctively form the absolute basis of your sexuality on one. They're two different things, and as has already been posted there is much more evidence to suggest that you can actually be born homosexual, whereas paedophilia generally does seem to be more about your mental state, personal experiences, stuff like that.

[Harlz]

You are not born with homosexuality, and that's my opinion.

It's not an illness.
You aren't born with homosexuality because it isn't an illness.

Just nitpicking..

[Theazninvasion68]

It just comes down to the nature vs. nurture argument. There's not really much else to discuss.

!!!!

DUDE.

Spot on.

This is why there's a Division of Scientists and Clinical Psychologists to come to a majority agreement.

It can't 100% be something a person is born with. Why? All the Science behind it is correlative. It isn't factual though. For say, a person with a gene but only has half that specific gene, and lets say it contributes 35% more homosexual/ other gender habits, then whats to be made of the rest? We don't know yet.

It also can't be 100% be something that can be developed. A Male / Female is essentially hardwired for the opposite sex. It takes a significant, damaging, trauma to completely turn someone's preference.

Either way you put it, a person has to be biology predisposed, and Psychologically primed by young age, and Socially influenced.

[Louis]

It's not an illness.
You aren't born with homosexuality because it isn't an illness.

Just nitpicking..

That doesn't make any sense. You don't have to be born with an illness, so because homosexuality isn't an illness, why can't you be born with it? Your argument does not make any sense at all.

I'm not saying that the environment doesn't have anything to do with one's homosexuality but it's not something that just turns up spontaneously in human beings. It's kinda like I said where they did studies on mice and when they removed certain genes they had homosexual tendencies.

Pretty sure this shit is genetic.

[Timothy]

You haven't lived until you've had a face-to-face conversation with someone who truly believes gay people conspire to convert young Americans via Hollywood-assisted-Brokeback-Mountain propaganda.

UN. FUCKING. REAL.

[Louis]

You haven't lived until you've had a face-to-face conversation with someone who truly believes gay people conspire to convert young Americans via Hollywood-assisted-Brokeback-Mountain propaganda.

UN. FUCKING. REAL.

It's a sad world out there, isn't it.

[cstebila]

You haven't lived until you've had a face-to-face conversation with someone who truly believes gay people conspire to convert young Americans via Hollywood-assisted-Brokeback-Mountain propaganda.

UN. FUCKING. REAL.

Or have a father who went / tried to recruit you into an ex-gay conference, went himself and brought back propaganda, on how to convert you.

[minuteforce]

It's a sad world out there, isn't it.
Very much so. :x

[Harlz]

That doesn't make any sense. You don't have to be born with an illness, so because homosexuality isn't an illness, why can't you be born with it? Your argument does not make any sense at all.

I'm not saying that the environment doesn't have anything to do with one's homosexuality but it's not something that just turns up spontaneously in human beings. It's kinda like I said where they did studies on mice and when they removed certain genes they had homosexual tendencies.

Pretty sure this shit is genetic.

I just had issues with the way it was worded.
Maybe you can be born as a homosexual, but you can't be born with homosexuality. That makes it sound like a disease, that's all I'm saying

[Louis]

I just had issues with the way it was worded.
Maybe you can be born as a homosexual, but you can't be born with homosexuality. That makes it sound like a disease, that's all I'm saying

Oh, alright. Yeah, that definitely makes more sense.

[Puresque]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I, personally, don't like this whole kind of discussion about being gay/lesbian or not. This opinion of course has nothing to do with science or medicine or whatever, I just think that it shouldn't be about loving genders, but about loving people. And if you happen to like people that have the same sex as you.. well, so who cares? I get that you're not discussing about if its wrong or not, but I just personally think, that it shouldn't matter if you're born with it or not. Until NOW I've been attracted to men and not to women at all, but if I suddenly meet a woman that just blows me away, then I think its because of her personality and not because she's male or female. And I think that would have nothing to do with going through any traumatic experience or something like that. Considering ONLY sexual desire.. I can't answer if you're born with a preference or not. So consider my answer to only cover the question about pure feelings without sexual attraction itself, though this for sure belongs together in some way. At least most of the time.

[lpboarder]

I think this discussion truly shows how much we do not know about the human brain. My belief (or theory) is that we are hardwired to a certain extent but once we are born it is the environmental factors that shape us from there. Maybe that is nature v nurture as someone else posted but humans are complex animals and without true knowledge and understanding of how the human brain functions then we have few datapoints of information to use as a key in how one's sexuality is determined. We know trauma (PTSD, for example) can affect behavior so that is a factor but I think there is just so much we do not understand about the brain right now to know for sure how/when our sexual identity is formed for each and every one of us.

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/twocents.gif

[Todd]

I just don't think it's nurture. Of all the gay people I know, none of them were brought up in an environment that would have anything that would make them gay, and it doesn't explain why siblings who were raised in the same household are straight. And a few gay people I know were brought up in religious households that taught that homosexuality was a sin and all gay people were going to hell - that's not exactly the kind of nurturing that would make one gay.

Now, whether one chooses to act on their homosexual desires is another thing. I think someone raised by religious and bigoted parents might stay closeted and force themselves to date the opposite sex, yet deep down know they're gay, versus someone raised by loving parents who couldn't care less would probably come out and be openly gay. But they're both gay - one is just lying about being straight.

[travz21]

You're still making it sound like it's a choice kind of.

[Todd]

You're still making it sound like it's a choice kind of.

How so?

It's a choice if you want to come out of the closet or not, but even those who choose to hide it and stay in the closet are still gay and still know they're gay. They can lie and say they're straight just like I can lie and say I'm gay, even though I'm straight. But I'm still straight, and didn't choose to be straight, and neither did you.

[travz21]

And a few gay people I know were brought up in religious households that taught that homosexuality was a sin and all gay people were going to hell - that's not exactly the kind of nurturing that would make one gay.

They aren't choosing to be gay. For all we know, that kind of upbringing could have been part of the reason for them being homosexual.

I feel I should kind of edit my older posts all in one. I think there are some people, no matter what happens to them in their lives, that will always be straight. But there are some people, maybe even most people, that are born more prone to being gay when they grow up. There could just be something in their brains that make it easier for the environment to influence them. But you don't come out of the chute a predetermined homosexual.

[Louis]

But you don't come out of the chute a predetermined homosexual.

You don't know that. Although, I can agree that sometimes the environment might play a role. However, if you can be born heterosexual, why *can't* you be born homosexual?

[travz21]

Maybe you're not born anything. Maybe you're born with a clean slate and go from there. I don't know. I'd rather talk about something more scientific lol. There's too many opinions regarding this subject.

[Louis]

Maybe you're not born anything. Maybe you're born with a clean slate and go from there. I don't know. I'd rather talk about something more scientific lol. There's too many opinions regarding this subject.

As much as I'd like to discuss scientific things too, it's hard to do that since we're not all scientific experts on the subject. :lol:

[.Amanda.]

Having grown up as a young, bisexual woman in a New Jersey suburb I can say that I have heard a lot of arguments about sexuality that have tweaked my nerves to one extent or another. I have been persecuted, excommunicated, taunted, and even beaten for my sexuality.

I've been told that I am going through a "phase".
I've been told that "bisexuality isn't real" and that I am faking it for attention.
I've been told that the devil has entered me.
I've been told that I made this "decision" because of my past sexual experiences.

I can offer up this to all of you, and you can take it for what it's worth:
I have been with men that I have loved. I have been with women that I have loved. I didn't fall in love with their hair, their eyes, or (of most importance to this thread) their gender. I fell in love with their souls.
I can't tell you what makes the LGBTQ community the way they are. I can't tell you why any of us fall in love with the people we fall in love with. But the question I always find myself asking is: "Why does it matter?"

[Louis]

Having grown up as a young, bisexual woman in a New Jersey suburb I can say that I have heard a lot of arguments about sexuality that have tweaked my nerves to one extent or another. I have been persecuted, excommunicated, taunted, and even beaten for my sexuality.

I've been told that I am going through a "phase".
I've been told that "bisexuality isn't real" and that I am faking it for attention.
I've been told that the devil has entered me.
I've been told that I made this "decision" because of my past sexual experiences.

I can offer up this to all of you, and you can take it for what it's worth:
I have been with men that I have loved. I have been with women that I have loved. I didn't fall in love with their hair, their eyes, or (of most importance to this thread) their gender. I fell in love with their souls.
I can't tell you what makes the LGBTQ community the way they are. I can't tell you why any of us fall in love with the people we fall in love with. But the question I always find myself asking is: "Why does it matter?"

:) This thread needed a post like yours.

[travz21]

Short answer: It doesn't matter.

[cstebila]

.in.the.shadows.

oh how are stories are similar. was raised in a very conservative christian home, brought up (brainwashed mind you) that christianty was inherently the end all, the entire purpose of life. around 17 realized i was bi-sexual, didn't accept it until late 19. turned 21 in january, and what may seem cliche to say, i cannot tell you how incredibly terrible my experience has been.

. was hanging out with a friend (his mom thought i may be bi-sexual, had the audacity to call him while we were hanging out and tell me to leave, i called her later asking why, it was entirely related to being bi-sexual, she called it a sin and of the devil)

. dad went to an "ex-gay" conference where they taught him all sorts of propoganda which he brought back to me. he returned with a book on how to overcome my sexuality, thought its been about 2 years since i've told him he still doesn't really except it, the other day semi-exploded at me asking "do you really like kissing guys?" (i didn't even know what to say)

. my former pastor took me out to taco bell and wanted to know about it

. i don't define myself by my sexuality in anyway, its literally just another part of me as much as my enjoyment of taco bell and linkin park, however everyone seems to want to insist it be my definition

. (all this hence why i created this thread)

in other words, you're not alone.

[travz21]

Religion needs to just go away.

[.Amanda.]

Religion needs to just go away.
You see, now here is where I would have to disagree,
Religion, in and of itself, is not inherently a bad thing. In fact, I believe that some people take a lot of comfort in their religion and is has the ability to work well in their lives.
However, corruption and personal agendas od certain figure heads of some religions can make things difficult...

[Theazninvasion68]

You see, now here is where I would have to disagree,
Religion, in and of itself, is not inherently a bad thing. In fact, I believe that some people take a lot of comfort in their religion and is has the ability to work well in their lives.
However, corruption and personal agendas od certain figure heads of some religions can make things difficult...

This.
+ your last post :lol:

[travz21]

Since this isn't a religion thread, I won't get into it haha.

[Harlz]

Oh, alright. Yeah, that definitely makes more sense.

I don't know if that was sarcasm :lol:

It doesn't matter, I'm just being picky.

[Dean]

Morally I don't think there's anything wrong with it either way, for the simple reason that it's not really your place to tell people what to do sexually or romantically if it isn't causing any harm.

[cstebila]

Morally I don't think there's anything wrong with it either way, for the simple reason that it's not really your place to tell people what to do sexually or romantically if it isn't causing any harm.

Or maybe you don't believe in morality... OOO

[Dean]

Or maybe you don't believe in morality... OOO
If I didn't I wouldn't be able to say it isn't immoral. :P

[cstebila]

If I didn't I wouldn't be able to say it isn't immoral. :P

No no, I was referring to my beliefs, lol. I believe "love" transcends traditional morality, as even the most moral among us the "preachers" "politicians" etc are all hypocrites. I don't really believe in a static morality is what I was getting at. :P

[Dean]

No no, I was referring to my beliefs, lol. I believe "love" transcends traditional morality, as even the most moral among us the "preachers" "politicians" etc are all hypocrites. I don't really believe in a static morality is what I was getting at. :P
Oh haha. In that case I think I pretty much agree with you.