View Full Version : "Illegal" Downloads
OkamiSensei
07-22-2010, 08:19 AM
What is your opinion on downloading (normally bought) music, programs, etc. for free?
El Muerto
07-22-2010, 10:39 AM
Piracy all the way
Jesse
07-22-2010, 01:31 PM
File Sharers Buy More
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...-customers.ars
Well, according to that they do.
Source: Communications & Strategies
Van Eijk's conclusions appear in a recent paper for the journal Communications & Strategies (PDF), one coauthored with Joost Poort and Paul Rutten. While van Eijk doesn't deny that specific industries (like recorded music) have been in decline, he paints a more complicated picture of the content industries as a whole.
For instance, Sweden has long been regarded as a worldwide piracy hub—it's home to The Pirate Bay, the VPN IPRedator, and it sent a member of the Pirate Party to the European Parliament. But van Eijk draws on 2009 research showing that "total revenues [in Sweden] from recorded music, live concerts and collecting societies remained roughly stable between 2000 and 2008."
That doesn't help the recording industry, however, unless music labels get a cut of revenues from live music and merchandise. That's exactly what has started to happen via so-called "360 deals" over the last few years, where labels will invest in recording and promotion budgets for bands, but only when they benefit from all parts of the band's revenue stream.
Van Eijk sees this as a necessary business model change in response to file-sharing, but he argues that far more innovation is needed. And he blasts the music industry in particular for acting out of fear. Labels tried to "stem the tide of unlicensed music file sharing with their conservative strategy of abstaining from innovation, promoting legal measures against supposed offences, and digital rights management," he wrote.
"This strategy resulted in the current backlash, providing space for a new entrant establishing a major brand in the online music business: Apple's iTunes. Reinvention of the business model looks like the only way out for the traditional players in the music industry."
If you attend music industry conferences, you never have wait long for someone to say that we have entered an age in which people are unwilling to pay for content; that is, traditional business models are dead.
Van Eijk still sees life left in direct content sales, but he notes that current prices are far out of line with consumer expectations. When file-sharers were surveyed about what a "reasonable" price would be for an album, a movie, and a video game, the answers were surprising. A full 75 percent of file-sharers thought €8 was appropriate for an album—not too far off from current pricing
also
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-10-423
and don't forget this old gem
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2347/125/v
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ippd-dppi.nsf/eng/h_ip01456.html
So far it's only been about albums and such but what about hardware.
What did Sony have to say about it at least?
“It sometimes fuels the growth of hardware sales, but on balance we are not happy about it,”
They admit it helps yet the still scrutinize it. It's kind of unfathomable, really...
http://www.destructoid.com/sony-admits-that-psp-piracy-fuels-the-growth-of-hardware-sales--91340.phtml
and book sales (albeit this is a little unfair considering it's only one author. But on the other hand he is a multi million dollar author.
The multi-million selling author Paulo Coelho has demonstrated that online book piracy has increased sales of his books in hard copy.
One of Coelho's fans posted a Russian translation of one of his novels online and sales of his books increased from 3,000 to 100,000 to 1m in three years, claims a report in The Guardian.
"This happened in English, in Norwegian, in Japanese and Serbian," Coelho said. "Now when the book is released in hard copy, the sales are spectacular."
However, Coelho ran into a spot of bother with his US publisher, HarperCollins, when the company's ex-boss Jane Friedman pulled him up on a supposedly unauthorised version of one of his books that the author had linked to from his own website.
The problem? The unauthorised version was found to contain Coelho's own author's notes!
Not digital versus print
A workable compromise was reached between the author and his publisher and readers can now read a different Coelho novel each month for free via HarperCollin's online reader.
While Coelho is fully aware of the possibility of new technologies (he Twitters, he blogs, he encourages his readers to submit their thoughts on developing stories – or their pictures to Flickr) The Guardian notes that "he still believes in print."
The key here is that this: "isn't a matter of print v digital. It's a question of what comes when you add digital to print.
"What does it bring him? "It gives me a lot of joy," he said, "because writing is something you do alone."
Read more: http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/paulo-coehlo-piracy-boosts-book-sales-441677#ixzz0uPi6cV8G
You can also read further into this debate as you head over to http://freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=286471&highlight=file+sharinghttp://freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=286471&highlight=file+sharing
Minus
07-22-2010, 01:32 PM
I will download an album to know what I'm getting myself into. If I end up digging it, I'll purchase it.
There are a great deal of artists that I would've never discovered without piracy.
minuteforce
07-22-2010, 02:24 PM
It's an arbitrary thing to me. If something means a lot to me, if I think something's really good, I'll inevitably pay money for it. That's what it comes down to for me, what it should always come down to; if I feel it's worth my money, then I'll pay money.
Last month, I bought a physical copy of an album, one of my favourites ever, that I discovered by illegally downloading MP3's five years ago.
I might download or stream something that I find I don't like at all, and, then, I'd obviously be very thankful that I didn't waste my money buying it.
Reznor has the right idea offering his recent releases for free download and letting his fans judge whether it's worth paying money for.
OkamiSensei
07-22-2010, 07:32 PM
Okay, interesting views, everyone! :) (By the way, thanks for the links Jesse. Quite interesting!)
Here's my opinion on the whole thing:
I think listening to a couple of songs from an album (be it by YouTube or a download) that you're interested is fine. If you really enjoy it, I think you should buy the songs and support the artist. Same goes with software. Most companies offer free trials of whatever program you want. Get the trial, and buy the full version if you like it. And yes, while downloads may help sales, they still take money away one way or the other.
So yeah, call me hypocritical...:lol:
the enigma
07-22-2010, 07:41 PM
There are quite a few artists, Linkin Park included, that don't care if their albums are pirated. They understand the business aspect of being musicians today, but still want to expand their audience and get their music out to the masses. In a perfect world, we'd be sensitive to what the artists want.
But, in the real world, you've got kids going to prison for this. Not a 5 star resort prison. A federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. For what? Something that takes just a few minutes to download?
Yeah, downloading things you didn't pay for can in some instances be piracy, but governments and corporations need to get the stick out of their ass and address the issue by talking to the people who do the downloading, rather than acting butthurt.
OkamiSensei
07-22-2010, 07:46 PM
There are quite a few artists, Linkin Park included, that don't care if their albums are pirated.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but...please don't tell me you're basing that on the "download that shit" quote.
There are quite a few artists, Linkin Park included, that don't care if their albums are pirated. They understand the business aspect of being musicians today, but still want to expand their audience and get their music out to the masses. In a perfect world, we'd be sensitive to what the artists want.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but...please don't tell me you're basing that on the "download that shit" quote.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. I'm pretty sure Linkin Park don't like their albums being pirated at all. The "download that shit" quote has got to be the most overused, out of context argument for people justifying pirating LP's music. They said that a long time ago under completely different circumstances from where they are now.
El Muerto
07-22-2010, 07:57 PM
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. I'm pretty sure Linkin Park don't like their albums being pirated at all. The "download that shit" quote has got to be the most overused, out of context argument for people justifying pirating LP's music. They said that a long time ago under completely different circumstances from where they are now.
So they supported free download when they were poor and were getting almost no money from being in a band, but now that they're millionaires they changed their minds and don't won't people to steal their music and money. How nice.
kidOhri
07-22-2010, 08:04 PM
i agree with all of you, who download stuff and then buy it when they think it's worth the money... i just find that fair, cause i don't want to spend nearly 20€ on an album that sucks ass. sorry, but i don't have a gold mine at home (unfortunately^^). so i'm downloading some songs before buying a cd. i'll never hesitate to spend my money on the bands/music i really love though.
also i'm not buying whole albums, when i only like one song...
So they supported free download when they were poor and were getting almost no money from being in a band, but now that they're millionaires they changed their minds and don't won't people to steal their music and money. How nice.
Agree.
I don't buy an artist album because I have heard a couple of songs and "liked it". If I have the money, then why no contribute to the cause? It also depends which artist though (and this might seem ignorant) but I'm not going to go to best buy and walmart to buy a CD from Miley Cirus or Britney Spears; they already have other 20 million people do that for me. I rather buy something from someone who I think it's worth it, and that I want for them to grow/nurish in the business. Whatever I can't afford, I download it.
So they supported free download when they were poor and were getting almost no money from being in a band, but now that they're millionaires they changed their minds and don't won't people to steal their music and money. How nice.
So people aren't allowed to change their opinions?
They said that when they were trying to make a name for themselves and never said it in relation to any studio album. It's a different story when they're signed to a major label unfortunately. Maybe they don't really mind, I don't know I'm not LP, but if it was me, I'd hate that I worked so hard an album and it leaks early and people get to download it before they have a chance to buy it and experience it as it was intended, which unfortunately, seems to be the case nowadays.
OkamiSensei
07-22-2010, 08:11 PM
Agree.
I don't buy an artist album because I have heard a couple of songs and "liked it". If I have the money, then why no contribute to the cause? It also depends which artist though (and this might seem ignorant) but I'm not going to go to best buy and walmart to buy a CD from Miley Cirus or Britney Spears; they already have other 20 million people do that for me. I rather buy something from someone who I think it's worth it, and that I want for them to grow/nurish in the business. Whatever I can't afford, I download it.
Isn't your last sentence contradicting everything else you just said? You want to support the artist, but if you can't afford it, you'll get it for free?
So people aren't allowed to change their opinions?
They said that when they were trying to make a name for themselves and never said it in relation to any studio album. It's a different story when they're signed to a major label unfortunately. Maybe they don't really mind, I don't know I'm not LP, but if it was me, I'd hate that I worked so hard an album and it leaks early and people get to download it before they have a chance to buy it and experience it as it was intended, which unfortunately, seems to be the case nowadays.
Exactly this.
Timothy
07-22-2010, 08:12 PM
What did Sony have to say about it at least?
They admit it helps yet the still scrutinize it. It's kind of unfathomable, really...
Console manufacturers make very little money from selling hardware; most of their profits come from games.
As for music piracy, yes, I download music. A lot. I'm not exactly proud of it, but that hasn't stopped me. On the flipside, downloading has exposed me to bands and artists I otherwise would've ignored. Shit, I wouldn't listen to three quarters of the bands I do now had I not had the opportunity to sample their music beforehand.
And, like Minus, if I like what I hear from an artist, I'll happily plunk down the cash for their music.
Sway DaSafo
wOdvmjsn4tc
[Chorus]:
People Dont Wanna Pay For C.D's
Now Every Other House Holds Got P.C's,
They Download On Mp3's,
People Please Be Reasonable (Yeah)
How Am I Gonna Make My G's,
If You Got My Album Before The Release,
The Qualitys Rubbish And There Aint No Sleaves,
Do You Deem That Feesable?
IMO Sway is the best UK rapper out there at the moment!
Isn't your last sentence contradicting everything else you just said? You want to support the artist, but if you can't afford it, you'll get it for free?
.
I worded it wrong.
If I do like an artist, then yes I would buy it, and I'm willing to do the same for all other artirts that suck just because... they still gotta pay bills; its their job regardless & I can always give it to someone else who wants it. But if I don't have the money for the people that I DONT like then yeah I will highly download it
El Muerto
07-22-2010, 08:20 PM
So people aren't allowed to change their opinions?
They said that when they were trying to make a name for themselves and never said it in relation to any studio album. It's a different story when they're signed to a major label unfortunately. Maybe they don't really mind, I don't know I'm not LP, but if it was me, I'd hate that I worked so hard an album and it leaks early and people get to download it before they have a chance to buy it and experience it as it was intended, which unfortunately, seems to be the case nowadays.
You sound like someone from Warner haha. "Experience it as it was intended"? It's a meaningless expression of bands who are desperately trying to get money out of people. What is there to experience, it'a bounch of songs, the only way to experience them is to turn on your speakers and play them in your music player. The songs will sound the same whether I pay 20e for them or download them from torrent.
kidOhri
07-22-2010, 08:22 PM
You want to support the artist, but if you can't afford it, you'll get it for free?
i personally am thinking exactly like that... it might seem contradicting. but sometimes music is just too expensive for me... and often times, i can't really understand the prices.
El Muerto
07-22-2010, 08:28 PM
Isn't your last sentence contradicting everything else you just said? You want to support the artist, but if you can't afford it, you'll get it for free?
You must be really really rich when you even ask questions like this..
OkamiSensei
07-22-2010, 08:30 PM
You must be really really rich when you even ask questions like this..
Wow. Don't assume I'm rich just because I want to pay an artist back for their hard work.
You must be really really rich when you even ask questions like this..
my thoughts exactly :lol:
You sound like someone from Warner haha. "Experience it as it was intended"? It's a meaningless expression of bands who are desperately trying to get money out of people. What is there to experience, it'a bounch of songs, the only way to experience them is to turn on your speakers and play them in your music player. The songs will sound the same whether I pay 20e for them or download them from torrent.
Maybe I am. :shifty: ... but seriously, taking one point out of my whole post doesn't justify what you originally said, which was basically that LP are hypocrites if they were to not support illegal downloading now, which I don't agree with. As for me saying "as it's intended", could relate to a number of things, and not just exactly how you "listen" to it. The method of intent could mean waiting until release day to experience it, whether that's through CD or a paid service like iTunes. Downloading leaked versions often hinder the quality (in most cases, unless you wait for a CD / FLAC rip), and besides this you don't get the experience of holding the hard copy and looking at the effort and hard work put into the artwork etc, which a lot of the time nowadays, you even get that electronically if you buy through iTunes.
Sure they're just songs, but with an artist of LP's standards, I already know I like them and will always support them if I have the chance.
My opinion is if you truly love an artist then support their work by buying it.
OkamiSensei
07-22-2010, 09:05 PM
My opinion is if you truly love an artist then support their work by buying it.
Luke is thread winner for making it simple. :lol:
kidOhri
07-22-2010, 09:14 PM
My opinion is if you truly love an artist then support their work by buying it.
word. :)
and honestly... i love holding a real cd in my hands and looking through the booklet... reading the lyrics while listening to the music for the first time... THAT'S music experience!
OkamiSensei
07-22-2010, 09:16 PM
word. :)
and honestly... i love holding a real cd in my hands and looking through the booklet... reading the lyrics while listening to the music for the first time... THAT'S music experience!
This! Especially when you get to appreciate the art AND music together.
All true, but who are you going to blame for piracy? Technology?
It's like telling people in YouTube, "heeeey, don't post videos".
Unfortunately, piracy is a world wide issue, not just here in USA or myself & even though I do appreciate art and music, we are not in the 18th Century anymore.
Shit, for all we know, the whole internet is filled with piracy (illegal downloads of songs, movies, tv shows, even essays).
Derek The Infamous
07-22-2010, 09:31 PM
I know exactly what Joe is saying. A lot of early leaks or rips are of a very low quality, and often hinder the experience of listening to the song for the first time. A good example is Eminem's recent "Recovery" album. When that album leaked a few weeks prior to release, the rips that came out were very low quality and as a result I didn't enjoy the album on the first listen because the sound was muddled and I couldn't make out what Eminem was saying.
Unless it's FLAC you're ALWAYS going to miss something in the music. An Mp3 is a compressed audio file, meaning that some quality was lost in the encoding. This quality can be enough to mask hidden nuances in the sound, or very light samples in the music that you would only hear if you bought the CD or had it in flac.
So Joe's exactly right. If it aint the CD or FLAC, you aren't hearing it right. And seeing as 90% of modern leaks are never flac...leaks ruin the album and prevent them from being heard the way they should be. You don't have to be an label exec to know mp3s are shit.
kidOhri
07-22-2010, 09:40 PM
as i'm reading this thread, i realize how damn complex this issue is... i could agree with all of you. but actually some of the opinions would be contradictions, if i put them into one post.
fact is: nobody will ever be able to stop all piracy going on in the world... otherwise, we'd be all living in jail.
Disturbedthoughts
07-22-2010, 09:43 PM
It helps and hinders all in one go. Music will reach people that would never get it other wise, and in turn you will get more fans. On the flip side you lose revenue and don't have an accurate representation of the public opinion. If only a medium could be found.
Luke is thread winner for making it simple. :lol:
At the end of the day it is that simple. My analogy on this argument is this: If you walk through a hall of paintings with an option of buying whichever ones you want, you're not going to buy the paintings you don't like or the ones you think are just okay. You're going to buy the ones that move you and the pictures that make you think and feel good emotions. But when it comes down to it, that doesn't necessarily mean that the artists of each painting didn't put in equal effort.
Jordan
07-23-2010, 01:18 PM
I download all my music, only buy records from bands that are DIY as fuck. Only download FLAC nowadays, and I don't care about album art, so I'm not losing anything. If I'm into a band enough I'll go see them when they play here, and buy a tshirt if they have cool designs.
The fact is, even if I couldn't download all this music, I wouldn't buy much music anyway. So no one's losing anything.
I download music, and if the music I download is great - then I will go out a buy the album even if I already have a good quality downloaded on my computer.
Minus
07-23-2010, 03:33 PM
If I REALLY want to support an artist, I'll put money down where it will actually make a difference: merch and tickets to concerts.
Here's a CD. It costs 20 dollars. Money from the CD goes to executives, producers, promotional teams, the manufacturer, and a billion in between people. How much does an artist get from one CD? A dollar. Maybe two. If that.
If I go to a concert held by said band, they get significantly more.
And Derek, I don't know where you get your music, but I ONLY get my music in FLAC. Always have for the past 2-3 years. And if it is mp3, it's pretty damn clear. I don't know what leaks YOU'RE listening to, but damn. Wait it out of the quality is THAT bad.
Suddenly MP3's are bad? I will have to try FLAC files out.
El Muerto
07-23-2010, 04:45 PM
Mp3's work pretty fine for me
esaul17
07-23-2010, 05:02 PM
Yeah, MP3s are high quality compression, I think it would be interesting to see how many people out of a thousand or so could tell the difference between a 320kb/sec MP3 and a FLAC file.
Also, wasn't the "download that shit" comment in reference to Hybrid Theory when it was already 3 or so years old and they were promoting Meteora? My memory is fuzzy, but I thought that was the timeframe. I am almost certain they were in the least already on a major label.
From what I recall Mike said he disliked when a new CD (especially if unfinished) was leaked out after they put so much work into it. Not sure if that is really contradictory to his statement about how if something has already been out for years and you are a recent fan to download some of the back catalog.
You must be really really rich when you even ask questions like this..
Haha, I know that wasn't directed at me but I'm hardly rich as it is and I still try to pay for music where I can.
Yeah, MP3s are high quality compression, I think it would be interesting to see how many people out of a thousand or so could tell the difference between a 320kb/sec MP3 and a FLAC file.
Also, wasn't the "download that shit" comment in reference to Hybrid Theory when it was already 3 or so years old and they were promoting Meteora? My memory is fuzzy, but I thought that was the timeframe. I am almost certain they were in the least already on a major label.
From what I recall Mike said he disliked when a new CD (especially if unfinished) was leaked out after they put so much work into it. Not sure if that is really contradictory to his statement about how if something has already been out for years and you are a recent fan to download some of the back catalog.
I thought it was supposed to be in reference to a rarer song that wasn't actually on any of their albums. So, assuming I've got it right, if someone uses it to say that Linkin Park are pro-piracy they are basically quote mining.
esaul17
07-23-2010, 05:46 PM
Haha, I know that wasn't directed at me but I'm hardly rich as it is and I still try to pay for music where I can.
I thought it was supposed to be in reference to a rarer song that wasn't actually on any of their albums. So, assuming I've got it right, if someone uses it to say that Linkin Park are pro-piracy they are basically quote mining.
I seen, it's probably been 7 years or so since I heard it on Much Music so my memory could easily be failing :).
the enigma
07-23-2010, 08:42 PM
My statement had nothing to do with what Mike said in relation to And One. Actually...it was around the time of Minute to Midnight or Meteora that I read a quote from Mike. I've failed to find said quote, but he said something along the lines of not minding if someone downloads the music without paying for it. I believe he was meaning if you can't afford the music, or it isn't available where you live.
If I REALLY want to support an artist, I'll put money down where it will actually make a difference: merch and tickets to concerts.
Here's a CD. It costs 20 dollars. Money from the CD goes to executives, producers, promotional teams, the manufacturer, and a billion in between people. How much does an artist get from one CD? A dollar. Maybe two. If that.
If I go to a concert held by said band, they get significantly more.
I was thinking this the entire time. A CD will cost $15.00 off the shelf at a Wal-Mart. A Special Edition CD/DVD will cost $20.00. There are so many hands in that pot, the band would be lucky to get a buck a CD. Sure, with LP, they sell millions and can make some decent money for the band, but then you divide whatever that is by six members...too much of the money is going elsewhere.
F-ck Casey
07-23-2010, 09:23 PM
why would I plop down $15 to $20 for a CD? Why would I pay 99 cents for a single song? If iTunes and Napster and all of this shit existed back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc., you better believe Rush fans would have been shutting down torrent websites when "Moving Pictures" leaked. I definately hate the way alot of people make this out to be like the music fans of my generation don't care about the artists because we download the shit out of everything. That's just not true. I'm an AVID music lover, I have near 200 gigs of music, 60% of it your every day regular Joe has never heard of.
I'm not going to through a bunch of bullshit at anyone like "I buy the albums I like". The last album I looked for in stores, a few weeks ago actually, was the How to Destroy Angels EP, and guess what? Not one copy. I don't buy albums, unless I'm head over heels in love with the band (Nine Inch Nails). I like to buy vinyl, but that's for entirely different purposes, and even then, I buy at flea markets and things like that.
These people don't need MY personal support. If I download a Nickelback album, are they really going to be crying themselves to sleep at night because one dude in Tennessee didn't burn $20 over their latest shitty album? No, they'll go back to bangin' groupies and rockin' out every night, and snorting coke with their million dollar label deal contract. The bands that care about the money are usually the ones that aren't worth supporting (oh hai gene simmons).
Go to shows. Buy t-shirts and albums at said shows. Go to music festivals. Support DIY bands. Burn the record labels to the ground, and the fake millionaire rockstars that cling onto them like a newborn baby onto a tit.
the enigma
07-23-2010, 09:33 PM
why would I plop down $15 to $20 for a CD? Why would I pay 99 cents for a single song? If iTunes and Napster and all of this shit existed back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc., you better believe Rush fans would have been shutting down torrent websites when "Moving Pictures" leaked. I definately hate the way alot of people make this out to be like the music fans of my generation don't care about the artists because we download the shit out of everything. That's just not true. I'm an AVID music lover, I have near 200 gigs of music, 60% of it your every day regular Joe has never heard of.
I'm not going to through a bunch of bullshit at anyone like "I buy the albums I like". The last album I looked for in stores, a few weeks ago actually, was the How to Destroy Angels EP, and guess what? Not one copy. I don't buy albums, unless I'm head over heels in love with the band (Nine Inch Nails). I like to buy vinyl, but that's for entirely different purposes, and even then, I buy at flea markets and things like that.
These people don't need MY personal support. If I download a Nickelback album, are they really going to be crying themselves to sleep at night because one dude in Tennessee didn't burn $20 over their latest shitty album? No, they'll go back to bangin' groupies and rockin' out every night, and snorting coke with their million dollar label deal contract. The bands that care about the money are usually the ones that aren't worth supporting (oh hai gene simmons).
Go to shows. Buy t-shirts and albums at said shows. Go to music festivals. Support DIY bands. Burn the record labels to the ground, and the fake millionaire rockstars that cling onto them like a newborn baby onto a tit.
A bit angrier than I would have liked, but I can agree. A decent example of a band that would burn with the labels is probably Hinder. The album cover for "Take It To The Limit" is asinine at best.
Harlz
07-26-2010, 07:20 AM
It's an arbitrary thing to me. If something means a lot to me, if I think something's really good, I'll inevitably pay money for it. That's what it comes down to for me, what it should always come down to; if I feel it's worth my money, then I'll pay money.
Last month, I bought a physical copy of an album, one of my favourites ever, that I discovered by illegally downloading MP3's five years ago.
I might download or stream something that I find I don't like at all, and, then, I'd obviously be very thankful that I didn't waste my money buying it.
Reznor has the right idea offering his recent releases for free download and letting his fans judge whether it's worth paying money for.
You.
minuteforce
07-26-2010, 11:06 AM
If I download a Nickelback album, are they really going to be crying themselves to sleep at night because one dude in Tennessee didn't burn $20 over their latest shitty album? No, they'll go back to bangin' groupies and rockin' out every night, and snorting coke with their million dollar label deal contract. The bands that care about the money are usually the ones that aren't worth supporting (oh hai gene simmons).
This is good ... but, then, if everyone has the same mindset as you do, said band is screwed. :)
F-ck Casey
07-27-2010, 05:47 AM
And that's perfectly fine with me.
Jordan
07-27-2010, 06:33 AM
This is good ... but, then, if everyone has the same mindset as you do, said band is screwed. :)
That's pretty much the point, means bands that are actually good and working hard are getting some attention/money while shitty generic radio rock bands are taking the fall. It all works out well as far as I'm concerned.
Theazninvasion68
07-27-2010, 07:34 AM
What my opinion about this is?
Youtube for the music. If you want to sample music, it's a free and fine way to totally sample music. I'm sure you could scratch some cash for a CD if you honestly liked the band.
For Software, such as Photoshop, or whatever, look for open-source or cheaper alternatives. If you really enjoy using software so much, then do save money to purchase it.
What if a band is good, but they aren't worth the $20? Well, Itunes has the ability to purchase a song invidually.
Trial Demo's exist to test software to see if you really need and enjoy using it.
Illegal downloading is Illegal, no matter how much injustice the band you like suffers from the recording label and etc.
@Luke: :lol: Pretty much.
What about FLAC quality rips?
If you've purchased the album, or songs already, I guess this would be up to the person. I personally say "Hey, you just want a HD version you already have."
Jordan
07-27-2010, 10:42 AM
Youtube for the music? I'd rather not listen to horrible youtube encoded 96kb/s songs thank you very much. Though I'm probably misinterpreting your point. Also, sometimes even (or pretty much all the time) when a band isn't worth $20 I want the whole album though, not individual tracks.
It being illegal doesn't bother me at all, I believe the RIAA (though I'm not in America, they give out most of the fines and such) have stopped going out for individuals and are focusing more on large torrent trackers etc.
Theazninvasion68
07-27-2010, 11:58 PM
There'll also other places, like playlist.com, etc etc.
Youtube was the first thing to come to mind :lol:
Jesse
07-28-2010, 12:15 AM
Listening to songs on Youtube/any of site that have not been uploaded by the band or the label is still pirating no matter how you look at it. It's music you don't pay for, accessible just about any time you'd like. To support the same results you get Youtube and not torrent-p2p sites, doesn't make any sense. It's still pirating music.
Benjamin
07-28-2010, 12:59 AM
I'm not a fan of downloading music that is easily accesible on itunes. I suppose I can see it being ok if your just a little low on money but when you have enough you BUY the album. And as everyone is saying, the "download that shit quote" is way overused. He was talking about the song And One, which wasn't on the album. I downloaded No Roads Left, Step up, and the LOATR remix. I eventually got In the End live and rare so now i don't have to feel guilt for getting step up. NRL is only available on the M2M tour addition which is some what hard to find and costs like 70 bucks. And the LOATR remix didn't even release in the U.S.
Darkspine Sonic
07-28-2010, 05:05 AM
I won't pay for a download of an album unless it's a case where the artist only released the album as a download. I prefer having physical copies of albums. Actually, I just recently downloaded A7X's newest album but I have every intent of getting the physical copy of the album in the near future.
adam.posey
07-28-2010, 09:45 PM
In the case of music I find that I spend more on a band if I just download what I want and then buy tickets later, and I get a better experience for it. I would never have spent $215 on tickets to see Iron Maiden (front row) if I hadn't first been able to download everything they've done. Same thing goes for Linkin Park.. I spend a lot of money on this band, and I do buy the albums but I'm also not ashamed to download the instant it becomes available. I got into the band because someone decided to put In The End to some dragon ball z clips, which is a massive copyright violation.
Hellions
08-05-2010, 09:59 PM
Putting "illegal" in quotes is something I'm not sure I agree with. I'm a very frequent pirate and I'm not ashamed of it, but I do know it's basically and undeniably illegal. It's the stigma and punishments attached to it that I disagree with.
First, I don't think of it as "stealing". If you buy some DVD's they're prefaced with a PSA about how "You wouldn't steal a car", "You wouldn't steal a purse" etc. saying you shouldn't steal movies or presumably music etc. as well. The thing is, grabbing a DVD, case and all off of a shelf isn't the same thing as downloading it off the internet. Think of it this way- You're not stealing a car, you're making an exact duplicate of that car with no harm or disturbance of the owner. Piracy isn't theft, it's making and sharing a copy of an original, typically legitimately purchased item.
I also think it's sickening the way people are slapped with hundreds of thousand dollar lawsuits over a modest amount of downloaded mp3's or movies. Companies like the RIAA are stuck in times where if you took a tape and duplicated it or otherwise manually copied an album it was probably a bigger deal. With the internet as prevalent as it is now and as rapidly as it's grown these past ten years it's impractical to pursue copyright in such a manner. Any file is a few clicks a way to any person and to fine and imprison every person that's ever pirated would be staggering and unrealistic. The best thing to do would be to introduce a business model that incorporates the new ways we look at and use media, not stubbornly oppose it. I'm all for protecting one's intellectual property as a musician and artist myself, but when you're suing elderly women for hundreds of thousands over a handful of songs their grandchildren downloaded, what are we supposed to honestly believe you're protecting?
Shark Attack
08-18-2010, 06:56 AM
I apologise if me downloading without paying for a musicians album means he can't afford the full price private jet, but some of us keep our money for necessities...
South Park hit the nail on the head with the piracy issue...
Trish
08-24-2010, 06:20 AM
I never used to buy cds ever, with the ease of downloading entire albums in 15 minutes without costing you a cent - who would go to the effort of walking into a cd store and spending your hard earned cash on something that could possibly be a waste?
Now for me its about availabilty, I live in a town that had one independent cd store, which has since shut down and we are left with one shop from the chain, Sanity
They dont have alot of alternative stuff in there, they keep the top 50 and then a few albums from each genre and as much as I like Slipknot and Cradle of Filth, sometimes thats not what I am after
Being an avid death metal/black metal fan, some of the titles I am looking for are not and probably will never be on the shelves of Sanity. Sometimes they can order them in for me, sometimes they arent even available in Australia!
I asked about ordering a Within Temptation cd about 5 years ago and they told me it would cost $65 and take 6 weeks to arrive....why wouldnt I download?
Saoberlinwaves
08-24-2010, 06:35 AM
I buy hard copies of my favorite seven or eight bands' material... I'll purchase a well over a hundred dollars a year in music on itunes on top of that, and I go to a ton of concerts and buy a lot of merch. I download a lot on top of that, but put it this way... I saw Saosin on Projekt Rev in 2007, I didn't know who they were at the time, and I went home and Limewired a few of their songs... To this day, they are one of my favorite bands, I've spent at least a hundred dollars on their merchandise, I've been to two of their headlining shows since then, and I own two hard copies of both of their studio albums. Moral of the story? If I hadn't gone home that night and downloaded a few Saosin songs that night, I probably never would have gotten into them in the first place and spent money on the band other ways. Similar things have happened with other bands as well, where I'll download a song or two and then really get into them and end up purchasing a shirt or going to their concerts, and buying their music in the future.... I think at the end of the day it evens out.
While downloading music does have its advantages, for me, it doesn't have the same effect as buying the CD itself, instead of getting it for free. I download torrents every now and then, on artists that are new, or their CD is hard to find/too expensive if found, but other than that, I love having hard copies of music. It adds on to my physical collection.
Now when it comes to programs, I am all for downloading torrents on them. I really don't think it is necessary to spend 1000 dollars on ONE application, just for recreational use. It seems kind of ludicrous that these companies charge an arm and a leg, just so you can add a simple border to your text.
Now with that said, downloading too much can get you in a LOT of trouble. The RIAA and the FCC seem to have a stick up their ass when it comes to things like "illegal" downloading, and have means of monitoring too much activity like that.
LinkinJunior
09-12-2010, 09:43 AM
I will download an album to know what I'm getting myself into. If I end up digging it, I'll purchase it.
There are a great deal of artists that I would've never discovered without piracy.
There are quite a few artists, Linkin Park included, that don't care if their albums are pirated. They understand the business aspect of being musicians today, but still want to expand their audience and get their music out to the masses. In a perfect world, we'd be sensitive to what the artists want.
But, in the real world, you've got kids going to prison for this. Not a 5 star resort prison. A federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. For what? Something that takes just a few minutes to download?
Yeah, downloading things you didn't pay for can in some instances be piracy, but governments and corporations need to get the stick out of their ass and address the issue by talking to the people who do the downloading, rather than acting butthurt.
I absolutely agree. Easily accessible media promotes discovery, and is an overall benefit for all.
I am all for "download, then get album" if the album or artist I download is realllly good. I can go on with ALL the albums and artists I have on my iPod that I will not mind buying at all.
I downloaded the ATS leak and no doubt I am going to pay $11 dollars for the whole physical copy of the album when it comes on Tuesday.
Louis
09-13-2010, 04:18 AM
I absolutely agree. Easily accessible media promotes discovery, and is an overall benefit for all.
Holy crap where have you been?
And honestly, I rarely download. I love the feeling of buying CDs.
cloudscream
09-15-2010, 02:29 PM
I download, and I buy lots of CDs.
morsedog
09-21-2010, 08:16 PM
I might download a song (http://www.chacha.com/category/song-lyrics) if I can't find it on Itunes or a music store. I know LP has enough money but I just feel like it is bad karma to be not supporting the band you enjoy.
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