Legalizing Marijuana

[11:54]

Just want to see how everyone feels about this. I was reading a thread about this very subject on another forum and I figured I could bring it here. Apparently, the Vice Chairman (sorry, do not have a name) of the Palm Beach County (Florida) Commissioners has proposed decriminalizing & allowing the recreational use of marijuana. He said it will lower the county budget by cutting out the cost for arrest, prosecution, & housing of offenders, but has not mentioned anything about taxing the drug.

I edited a quote from the other forum I got this from, so that's why it's a little sketchy.

Thoughts?

[Babali]

I think it's a good idea and should be done all over the place. It hasn't even been illegal for one hundred years, you know. Creating myths and fear around it has allowed the government to get to where they are right now with it, and I have a feeling the ridiculous, completely laughable prohibition(although it's not very funny if you've looked in to how much damage it has caused) will be over soon as people realize they've been lied to about it, for the most part.

It's less intoxicating than most prescription drugs, is a lot safer than alcohol(doesn't intoxicate you to the point of not being able to control yourself) and is actually known to have many benefits.

I'll finish my post with this quote from Bill Hicks: 'Why is pot against the law? It wouldn't be because anyone can grow it, and therefore you can't make a profit off it, would it?'

[Disturbedthoughts]

I love that quote. I agree Babali. Should be legal. Doesn't mean I smoke it or even will, but I don't see harm in legalizing it. Vastly different from the harm I see with it being illegal.

[Nick]

I strongly believe it should be legalized, as does my mother. Besides all the positive facts about it (and yes there always negative) I still believe that it is no where near dangerous enough to be illegal. It's something that is very socially relaxing for people, taboo for some, and stress relieving for most who do it.

And yes, another Bill Hicks quote because everything he said I happen to agree with.

"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit... unnatural? You know what I mean? It's nature. How do you make nature against the fucking law?"

[think i'm a fire engine]

While I neither use marijuana nor advocate its use, its prohibition is a major and unjustified infringement on civil liberties.

[Minus]

I ask this to anybody I meet who thinks that pot is bad:

"Who would you rather see on the road, a high driver or a drunk driver?"

[Luke]

I'm undecided on this one. On one hand I think each to their own, I even smoke a spliff hear and there. On the other hand I can see what it's done to people who have become addicted including my own brother.

He started doing weed aged 14 and did it for roughly 10 years. By doing weed, like so many other people, the enjoyable buzz opened the door for him to experiment with other drugs. I wont go into which ones he was on but I do know other people that have used weed as a gateway to move on to much harder drugs. My brother has only very recently stopped doing weed and for the first few months he quit he got severe withdrawel anxiety to the point where he would sweat and go into insane moodswings.

I can understand the argument that it's a product of nature and less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes, but you can't just sit there and say it won't fuck you up if you get addicted to it. Marijuana can cause paranoia, panic attacks, short-term memory loss and various other problems. I guess I wouldn't really mind if it was legalised or not though. It's easy enough to get hold of even if it is illegal so I don't see a big problem either way.

[Jordan]

I ask this to anybody I meet who thinks that pot is bad:

"Who would you rather see on the road, a high driver or a drunk driver?"

Hardly a good argument. Most people would rather see neither on the road.

[Timothy]

I think it's ironic that marijuana is still so controversial in a country where oxycodone and hydrocodone are two of the most prescribed drugs.

[Minus]

Hardly a good argument. Most people would rather see neither on the road.

You haven't seen me drive. Speed limits are always followed, turn signals always used well in advance. As opposed to swerving, speeding, killing people...

The point of my argument was that marijuana is BY FAR a lot safer than alcohol.

You can die of too much alcohol.

If you find a way to die from smoking too much weed, then you're supremely rich and blessed and deserve to move on.

Also, I don't see marijuana as a gateway drug. I've definitely stuck to MJ over the years like my name was Peter Parker (no Gwen Stacy, shaddap). Also, it's non-habit forming. Actually, this video explains nicely:

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[Babali]

He started doing weed aged 14 and did it for roughly 10 years. By doing weed, like so many other people, the enjoyable buzz opened the door for him to experiment with other drugs. I wont go into which ones he was on but I do know other people that have used weed as a gateway to move on to much harder drugs. My brother has only very recently stopped doing weed and for the first few months he quit he got severe withdrawel anxiety to the point where he would sweat and go into insane moodswings.

Some people have addictive personalities, and that's not really marijuana's fault. Your brother was most likely going to try those drugs eventually, marijuana or not. I think the problem was more psychological and a deep-rooted thing than marijuana addiction. True, some people can become addicted to it(you can become addicted to anything - internet, video games, sex), but it is not addictive like truly addictive drugs are, like heroin, cocaine or methamphetamine. Or, like someone mentioned, hydrocodone, oxycodone, or xanax.

Just because one can become addicted to it and ruin lives does that mean it should be illegal to everyone? Then we could make sex illegal, the internet illegal, etc. Most people can handle those things just fine without mindless self-indulgence. You need to be taught to create balance in life.


I first tried marijuana when I was sixteen, and it did not affect my driving whatsoever. I was never pulled over, I was never really intoxicated, just really happy and giggly. When I first drank I was seventeen and I nearly died from that several times, have had several nights where I passed out from alcohol poisoning, etc. Alcohol is extremely easy to overdose on. I have never had nights like that with marijuana.

[Dr. Octogonapus]

Legalizing marijuana is something that should have been done 40 years ago, if not more.

[Babali]

Or never done at all. In the 30's when it was outlawed it was pretty much 'Scary Dirty Mexican Marihuana Makes You Go Crazy and Rape And Kill!!!' Literally. Which was just shockingly racist, BS propaganda that all the complete extremist conservative people in the states, always fearful of the Mexican(and Blacks, Gays, Muslims, Indians etc, basically anybody unique or different), fell for.

Lives continue to be destroyed over the pointless prohibition. It's just one of those bizarre primitive things about society today that I have hope will go away, over time, with more education. We're still young and still have a long way to go.

[esaul17]

Just want to throw a couple things out there.

1) Saying "You haven't seen me drive high" isn't really a convincing argument. I am sure some drunks think they're "fine" when driving smashed.

2) Marijuana is not chemically addictive. Yes some people get psychologically addicted to it and it screws up they're lives, but you can be psychologically addicted to sex or video games or food too- and we can't ban all of those.


Regardless, I support cannabis legalization.

[11:54]

Comparing marijuana to alchohol is like comparing apples to oranges.

Anything that makes you impaired in any fashion should be publicly illegal.

[Babali]

Anything that makes you impaired in any fashion should be publicly illegal.

I don't agree with this. We need more people educated about the levels of intoxication of all these substances and how to be safe in the world, not banning things out of fear.

[11:54]

I don't agree with this. We need more people educated about the levels of intoxication of all these substances and how to be safe in the world, not banning things out of fear.

So EDUCATE them. Don't just give them the stuff to get high or drunk in public. What kind of stupid logic is that?

[[TDWP] Jacob]

I wouldn't smoke it either way
I mean I use to but no point in doing it
whether they should legalize it or not...mehh
Could go either way
I don't care much either way

[Christopher]

"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit... unnatural? You know what I mean? It's nature. How do you make nature against the fucking law?"

Against it. Don't think it should be encouraged.

Then again, I think cigerattes and maybe even alcohol should be illegal as well...

"... As long as I do not harm another human being on this planet." That's hardly the case.

"How do you make nature against the fucking law?" Violence is natural as well. Human beings differ from animals, because they're cultured.

Then again, I do realise there are huge issues concerning law inforcement.

[Theazninvasion68]

Ask any highly educated pharmacist about the effects of marijuana and see about what he'd say.

Ask any long term drug dealers, ask about what type of people come to him and how they change.

Ask any police officer how annoying, pathetic and sad it is that they, by law, must arrest users (when conditions for arrest for drug use or possession is fulfilled). They just see young bright kids go off to downtown.

In any case, however, I support the recreational use of it.
In any case, as well, I don't support what it does to people. ( as in I don't like what it does to people)

[Dean]

So EDUCATE them. Don't just give them the stuff to get high or drunk in public. What kind of stupid logic is that?
No one said anything about just handing it out willy-nilly, or that education and legalisation would be mutually exclusive.

[F-ck Casey]

there are receptors in the brain that are designed specifically for the inhalation of marijuana, or a synthetic form of marijuana. if that doesn't speak volumes to someone about marijuana and it's intended place and use on this planet, then i guess you'll just never "get it".

as for it being a "gateway drug", it's really not. i know 50 year old men that are giatric, hip-bone breaking fucks, but they've never dropped acid, rolled, shot up heroin, nothing. they just stuck to pot. i don't know who said it earlier in this thread, but chances are if someone goes from weed to something like cocaine, chances are they had thought about doing it before. no one smokes a blunt, then immediately decides, "hey, i want some crack. will you drive me to the ghetto?" wanting to experiment with drugs is natural, in my opinion, and is in no way influenced by marijuana. i guess if i like beer, then eventually i'm going to try hard liquor and become an alcoholic. drug use is dependent strictly on the person and their natural inclinations towards certain things... what came first, the druggie or the drugs? you have to have an interest to even get involved in this culture.

when you get right down to it, marijuana is illegal for a number of reasons, but it's not for the reasons the government wants you to think. Doctors prescribe patients in pain all these nasty, fucked up pain killers and sedatives, but a natural growing plant with the same benefits is illegal? it's because hemp has more uses than just to intoxicate. you can make rope, paper, etc. out of it, it's healthy to eat (hemp seeds), but in general it's something that scares the government and can put alot of people out of business.

legal or not, it won't get rid of drug deals. there's always going to be a market for cheaper product. but, what legalizing it will do, is cut down on the violence over drugs. notice i said "cut down", not "wipe out", because it won't. it's naive to think otherwise. you can legalize everything and anything in this world, and people will still bitch and moan and stab someone over it, there's no way around it.

show me someone's life that was ruined solely by marijuana, and i'll show you hundreds of people that have greatly benefited from the drug, and had some killer times while smoking JUST weed, never killing or harming a single soul.

marijuana is beautiful. i'm a passionate stoner.

[Luke]

Some people have addictive personalities, and that's not really marijuana's fault. Your brother was most likely going to try those drugs eventually, marijuana or not. I think the problem was more psychological and a deep-rooted thing than marijuana addiction. True, some people can become addicted to it(you can become addicted to anything - internet, video games, sex), but it is not addictive like truly addictive drugs are, like heroin, cocaine or methamphetamine. Or, like someone mentioned, hydrocodone, oxycodone, or xanax.

Just because one can become addicted to it and ruin lives does that mean it should be illegal to everyone? Then we could make sex illegal, the internet illegal, etc. Most people can handle those things just fine without mindless self-indulgence. You need to be taught to create balance in life.


I first tried marijuana when I was sixteen, and it did not affect my driving whatsoever. I was never pulled over, I was never really intoxicated, just really happy and giggly. When I first drank I was seventeen and I nearly died from that several times, have had several nights where I passed out from alcohol poisoning, etc. Alcohol is extremely easy to overdose on. I have never had nights like that with marijuana.

So according to you my brother would have said one day out of the blue "wow, I'm bored today, I think I'll go try some MDMA or Cocain" had he not been smoking marinjuana? That's BS as far as I'm concerned. Fair enough, pretty much anything can be addictive, but only in rare cases will a sex addiction lead someone to committing some sort of sexual crime or any other addiction lead someone to breaking the law or endangering human life. Weed on the other hand is the gateway that leads many people (mostly young I might add), whether it be a minority of marijuana users or not, down the path of hard drugs.

Whether my brother's addiction was psychological or not, it's still an addiction that quite frankly wouldn't have happened if people actually took the time to seriously educate the masses on the issue as opposed to practically branding it taboo.

Also, I don't know about here in America, but back in the UK the same laws and punishments apply for smoking weed and driving as drink driving. The government wouldn't uphold that law if there wern't some negative, possibly life endagering effects of smoking weed while driving.

[F-ck Casey]

marijuana is a kind of pandora's box. once it's opened, it's very hard to shut it closed again. it's very addicting, but the key to all of this is that it's not a physical addiction, like meth, where the body completely shuts down and starts to destroy itself. it's more of a mental addiction, i suffer from it too. i've been smoking since 9th grade (have been graduated for about 2 1/2 years now), been arrested for it, etc. i've run the gamut with this drug, it's basically been by my side ever since i was a teenager. so, i guess, in a way, i can relate to what your brother went through. i've tried just about every drug there is, but that's due to me wanting to try them, not because weed didn't do the job anymore or something, which btw, is the common excuse for the "gateway users".

i smoke weed to calm down and just relax, i drop acid and eat mushrooms to better understand the world around me and this infinite universe, and i eat rolls to heighten my sensitivity to pleasure, sounds, tastes.. quite frankly, if you take a drug and you aren't looking to better your immediate situation, or your perception, then you shouldn't be taking them at all in my opinion. it's not drugs to me, it's a journey.

EDIT:
The government wouldn't uphold that law if there wern't some negative, possibly life endagering effects of smoking weed while driving.

:lol: your faith in your government disturbs me.

[Christopher]

I never understood why marijuana being "natural", a plant, made up for the unnatural behaviour of lighting it on fire and sucking up the smoke.

Or how drugs "enhance" your perception, they distort your senses, that's deterioration.

More valid reasons to take drugs, to me, are: it's fun, it makes me feel good, it makes me feel cool, ...

[F-ck Casey]

I never understood why marijuana being "natural", a plant, made up for the unnatural behaviour of lighting it on fire and sucking up the smoke.

Or how drugs "enhance" your perception, they distort your senses, that's deterioration.

and that's also entirely your opinion, as flawed as i think it may be. the way you think drugs make people, that's how i feel when i'm sober. when i'm high, i comprehend things much better. my world isn't "distorted" or "deteroiated" when i'm high, it's... normal. it feels right. i'm sorry if the Dateline NBC special on weed you saw conflicts with what an actual user is telling you, but that's how it is for me.

i do enjoy this thread though, kudos to the thread maker. i always get a kick out of anti-marijuana people. rawr rawr drugs are bad.

EDIT: :lol: :lol: :lol:

so, a legit reason to take drugs, like actually wanting to drop acid and go on a spiritual journey through my mind... that's not a good reason. but, fuck it, if i just want to fit in with the cool kids and get totally fucked up, man... that's a good reason, for sure!

that's the dumbest thing i've ever read on this forum. thank you.

[Christopher]

Spiritual journeys are bullshit. An average teenager wanting to belong is reality, even if no one will admit it.

I guess, I'll never understand why people get into drugs. It makes no sense to me.

edit: Dateline NBC... I don't even live in the US, our media isn't as flawed as yours.

[esaul17]

I have to say, cannabis is not "intended for anything" and receptors in our brains were not "designed". Evolution just happened, there is no goal or underlying purpose. I support it's legalization, but not because that is how some ambiguous entity "intended" it to be.

And "natural" also means nothing. There are tonnes of natural poisons.

[F-ck Casey]

Spiritual journeys are bullshit. An average teenager wanting to belong is reality, even if no one will admit it.

I guess, I'll never understand why people get into drugs. It makes no sense to me.

edit: Dateline NBC... I don't even live in the US, our media isn't as flawed as yours.

yeah, and why exactly is it bullshit? i'm sorry if my reasoning for doing psychedelic drugs aren't up to par with what you believe, but quite frankly that's wrong. but, please, explain to me why that's bullshit, i'm dying to hear that.

Dateline BBC, then? Whatever, you still got the jist of what I was trying to say, but I guess that's lost on you.

EDIT: @esaul: geez, i didn't realize i had to be anal about what words i chose to include in what i say. i thought most people on this board would get what i'm trying to explain, but i guess not.

[Timothy]

Then again, I think cigerattes and maybe even alcohol should be illegal as well...

But the reality is alcohol and tobacco are legal, which makes marijuana's illegality so confounding. Why is marijuana -- which, unlike alcohol and tobacco, does have positive uses outside of recreation -- so demonized? Why are doctors allowed to prescribe synthetic heroin for pain relief but not a plant?

[Christopher]

But the reality is alcohol and tobacco are legal, which makes marijuana's illegality so confounding. Why is marijuana -- which, unlike alcohol and tobacco, does have positive uses outside of recreation -- so demonized? Why are doctors allowed to prescribe synthetic heroin for pain relief but not a plant?

That's simple, tradition and money.

[F-ck Casey]

That's simple, tradition and money.

way to completely ignore the actual question at hand and give the most simple response imaginable.

[think i'm a fire engine]

The thing I don't like about the marijuana debate is that so often people who think it's good to use marijuana think it should be legal, and people who don't approve of using it think it should be illegal. The "is weed good or bad?" debate is not really the most relevant issue. It doesn't really matter if you're straight edge or a huge stoner in the grand scheme of things. To me, it's much more a debate on what the role of government should be in the lives of individual citizens. How much power should the government have to control what one does privately? At what point does the government need to step in for the protection of its citizens? If one doesn't draw that line at marijuana, what about crack? And if one does think the government should protect the public from marijuana, how much further should that be allowed to go?

[Babali]

@Luke: I don't know how your brother got in to those drugs, but I'm just saying marijuana is not to blame, it's most likely a deeper psychological problem that your brother needs to deal with. Marijuana has never been proven to be a gateway drug. That's propaganda. Any drug use might lead to more drug use. That's just common sense. You need to be old enough and educated about these things.

@11:55: People are trying to educate others about it. Obviously many people have become educated or they wouldn't be decriminalizing it all over the nation.

@Christopher: Spiritual journeys are not bullshit. There is actually a lot more to our brains than it seems like you think, and we can actually use other substances to access different parts of the subconscious mind and you really can learn things. It's amazing.

[esaul17]

EDIT: @esaul: geez, i didn't realize i had to be anal about what words i chose to include in what i say. i thought most people on this board would get what i'm trying to explain, but i guess not.

If you take out the idea of nature having intent, and take out the idea of natural = good, then your argument simply boils down to "Cannabis has a specific effect on the brain- therefore we should use it!". You needed the other stuff for the argument to work, which is why I refuted it. It wasn't just semantics.

[F-ck Casey]

it's not just an effect, it's a receptor in the brain that is ONLY triggered by cannabis.

or something, i'm no brain expert.

[Jesse]

What is natural? Is eating steak un-natural because people cook it? I don't think so. So, saying that lighting up a joint is un-natural is too far a stretch I'd say.

Do I smoke weed? No.
Do I think others shouldn't smoke it? No.
Do I think it should be legalized? Yes.

As long as they set up restrictions like they have cigarettes, I'm all for it. Really, I can't stand cigarette smoke. It gets me coughing really badly. It makes my eyes water. It makes me gag, but if people don't smoke near me, I'll live.

[Jen]

Comparing marijuana to alchohol is like comparing apples to oranges.

Anything that makes you impaired in any fashion should be publicly illegal.

So you are essentially saying that prescription drugs such as pain killers, anti-anxiety drugs, tranquilizers etc should be illegal? They all impair your judgment.

Anyway, I smoke pot, and I have a prescription to do so to relieve my anxiety. I don't believe its a gateway drug, if anything, I have found that more people that use Ritalin as children tend to get into more hard drug use than people that have smoked pot. I have also used other drugs, but I did that long before I ever smoked my first joint.

Living where I do, I fully believe it should be legal, as during and right after harvest season, the crime rate here increases a lot, with people breaking into other peoples homes and robbing them at gun point for their marijuana. Its grown in mass quantities in the forests that surround the county I live in and most of the others in Northern California, and its actually dangerous to be in certain areas throughout the year, because people go hiking and stumble upon a grow site, and often aren't seen or heard from again. Illegal large scale grows like that are not only dangerous, but often the sites are environmentally damaged in some way after the harvest is done, and its not a good situation no matter how you look at it. Legalizing marijuana would eliminate the problems that are prevalent with the pot for profit mentality.

I say legalize it and tax it. The State of California has this as a idea to generate revenue for the state, but as long as its still illegal on the federal level, its not eligible for taxation.

[11:54]

No one said anything about just handing it out willy-nilly, or that education and legalisation would be mutually exclusive.

He was basically saying the way we should educate people on drugs is to legalize it and have everyone try it. At least that's what I got from it.

[Nick]

I would just like to point out that pretty much everything Casey and Jen have said, are my opinions as well.

That is all.

[Babali]

He was basically saying the way we should educate people on drugs is to legalize it and have everyone try it.
What on Earth???!!! I never said anything close to that. People just need to be better educated about drugs, especially prescription drugs. You need to know what it is, what it's harms are, what it's benefits are, what it might do to your body. That's what I mean about being educated about drugs.

[11:54]

What on Earth???!!! I never said anything close to that. People just need to be better educated about drugs, especially prescription drugs. You need to know what it is, what it's harms are, what it's benefits are, what it might do to your body. That's what I mean about being educated about drugs.

Must I?

I said:

Anything that makes you impaired in any fashion should be publicly illegal.

In reply, you said:

I don't agree with this. We need more people educated about the levels of intoxication of all these substances and how to be safe in the world, not banning things out of fear.

So, from what I gather, you're saying we make it legal so that people can be educated better by how drugs work. I never said we should 'ban things out of fear', I simply said drugs that make you impaired should be publicly illegal. Everything that already makes you publicly impaired and keeps you from functioning normally is already illegal. Get high or drunk off ANYTHING and go out in public. Walk, drive, ride a bike, cut some grass on a riding mower, get caught, and your ass is grass.

When I said 'publicly illegal', I'm referring to whatever it is that you do in your own home with drugs or alcohol is your business. If you can maintain sobriety in public areas, then it shouldn't matter if you're getting hammered in your own home.

[Babali]

Must I?
Must you what? I don't know where in your post you explained how you thought I meant everybody should try drugs to be educated about them[I don't know how you got that from the quote you highlighted]. Banning out of fear means banning because people ate up the propaganda that marijuana makes you go crazy and rape and kill. Everyone has tried drugs(I'm including drugs that the doctor gives you, tobacco, caffeinated beverages, etc.), most people just aren't very educated about them or educated on how to live a balanced life and not rely on something like drugs, sex, tv, video games, message boards, etc. to make you feel good.

The thing is, marijuana just doesn't intoxicate you enough that a police officer is going to notice. The only way a police officer can really detect it is if you smell like it.

[Luke]

@Luke: I don't know how your brother got in to those drugs, but I'm just saying marijuana is not to blame, it's most likely a deeper psychological problem that your brother needs to deal with. Marijuana has never been proven to be a gateway drug. That's propaganda. Any drug use might lead to more drug use. That's just common sense. You need to be old enough and educated about these things.

While I agree with you to a certain extent I also tend to believe what I see with my own eyes. As I said in a previous post I know of several people that have gone down a darker route after initiating the recreational use of Marijuana. While authorities do use propaganda to turn people away from drugs, there is a reason why and I've seen it for myself. Minority or not, it doesn't mean to say that it doesn't happen.


I never understood why marijuana being "natural", a plant, made up for the unnatural behaviour of lighting it on fire and sucking up the smoke.

Quoted for the absolute truth.

I love how Marijuana supporters throw the whole ''it's a natural herb'' thing into the mix because it's such a foolish argument. Tobacco is a natural herb aswell but it's only dangerous to our health when people grind it up and smoke it. Same rules apply for Weed.

As I've said before though, I'm not necessarily against it and every now and then I blaze a little bit myself. In moderation anything is fine with me as long as people have the willpower to say when enough is enough.

[F-ck Casey]

"Tobacco is a natural herb aswell but it's only dangerous to our health when people grind it up and smoke it."

sorry sir, that's wrong. it's all the chemicals they put into cigarettes that really fuck your health over.

[Luke]

"Tobacco is a natural herb aswell but it's only dangerous to our health when people grind it up and smoke it."

sorry sir, that's wrong. it's all the chemicals they put into cigarettes that really fuck your health over.

So you're trying to say that by smoking the tobacco leaf by itself you're not increasing your risk of cancer? Sure enough the chemicals vastly increase how unhealthy cigarettes are (in fact I was going to mention that in the post you quoted) but smoking tobacco by itself is bad for you, there's no denying that.

[F-ck Casey]

smoking anything is unhealthy, our lungs aren't meant to handle smoke. you can take the most healthiest thing on this planet, and burn it and inhale the fumes and breathe smoke, and it will be extremely bad for your health most likely. this is a mute point, cigarettes and alcohol are already legal, and that will never change. those two things kill more americans than marijuana (because pot doesn't kill anyone), yet the seemingly "safer" drug is illegal? explain that to me, please. any of you that are debating this issue with me, Babali and Timothy, PLEASE explain to me why something that has never caused a single death is illegal.

[11:54]

I'm sure someone high from pot has caused a death SOMEWHERE.

[Babali]

I'm sure someone high from pot has caused a death SOMEWHERE.
Yeah, but more people kill others while talking on their cellphones. Obviously being intoxicated on the road is extremely dangerous. Usually marijuana is not that intoxicating, but if you do get intoxicated you're still in control of yourself to make that decision to go out and drive.

[Nick]

I'm sure someone high from pot has caused a death SOMEWHERE.

But even this, like.. When you have to LOOK and find the bad because the good is overshadowing the bad. I would think think people would just accept it for the bad and the good. I'm sure people also commit suicide, people kill other people in accidents with no drugs involved at all, people kill other people.

Either way, people still die everyday. I just beleive that YES, while this is terrible and we need to take precautions to make us safe, I don't know a single soul (in real life) who feels threatened by Marijuana in the slightest bit. So to have it legalized seems like it would do more good than bad.

But I also do agree that, it really is up to the individual. To have the will power and control yourself. I do, I smoke Mary whenever I am with some of my friends. I love it, I have never lost control of myself. I see things more clearly, I can function better throughout the day and I can even be more sociable. I've been a much happier person ever since I started smoking it and it has done nothing but good for my life.

That's my opinion, anyone can say "Yes, but." and I will respect any of that, But I think this argument is a little pointless anyway. I bet you have a 90% chance of NOT changing the other person's opinion. Theres no need to get upset about things.

[F-ck Casey]

I'm sure someone high from pot has caused a death SOMEWHERE.

I bet someone high on fucking caffeine somewhere has caused a death, but I'm not up in arms mad at Coca-Cola.

[Jordan]

Can someone tell me something they've learnt on one of these spiritual journeys? I'm sure you had fun, and everything seemed to make sense etc. etc., but do you remember shit? Personal experiences please.

[Nick]

Can someone tell me something they've learnt on one of these spiritual journeys? I'm sure you had fun, and everything seemed to make sense etc. etc., but do you remember shit? Personal experiences please.

Well of course you remember what happened. I wouldn't go as far to call it a "Spiritual Journey" I don't think Pot really gives much of that unless you are a heavy thinker.

But If you want to know a short quick experience I had, It was semi-recently, about a month now? I can't remember. But right after my ex broke up with me. Theres a dirt road me and my friend go down after school, just to drive down it because the trees overhang and from the outside all you can see is a tunnel of darkness. Well I pulled an all-nighter and smoked with him and I was GONE due to lack of sleep and the combination of that, plus good weed. Anyways, we go down the road, and this was when the leaves were all changed in color but hadn't fallen. We drove down the road and their was this beautiful GORGEOUS sunset and we stopped the car, got out and I just stood there standing, everything felt like it was a photograph, like time would never end and I could stand there forever, and I was happy and would have gladly done so. I realized these little things like sunsets or the leaves on a tree mean something more to me than being upset about "some girl that didn't work out." My entire being was at peace, truly.

Now i'm not saying this can't happen when you're sober, of course it can, but I'm saying I was having a terrible day and it definitely helps bring out the good of the day.

[Iain]

I'm sure someone high from pot has caused a death SOMEWHERE.

Come on, you can't be arguing with that.

Marijuana isn't the kind of drug that makes you act violent. Sure, some people get paranoid. But that paranoia, more often than not, causes them to retreat from people, not lash out at them. And the effects on your health have never (read: NEVER) been proven to be detrimental. As a matter of fact, there are chemicals in marijuana that actually kill off cancerous cells in the lungs. The brain damage thing has never, ever been conclusively proven, and probably never will be proven.

Cell phones and alcohol have lead to more deaths than pot has, I'm willing to bet.

[Dr. Octogonapus]

In the 30's when it was outlawed it was pretty much 'Scary Dirty Mexican Marihuana Makes You Go Crazy and Rape And Kill!!!' Literally.

I'm surprised the Bush administration never did a "SMOKING MARIJUANA MAKES YOU A TERRORIST!!!!" campaign.

[Timothy]

Can someone tell me something they've learnt on one of these spiritual journeys? I'm sure you had fun, and everything seemed to make sense etc. etc., but do you remember shit? Personal experiences please.

If you're looking for spiritual journeys, pot really isn't the way to go. Unless by "spiritual journey" you mean eating an entire box of chocolate donuts and giggling at stupid shit.

[Jordan]

I was more talking about psychedelics rather than pot sorry. It was completely unrelated for the most part, i forget what my thinking was earlier lol, but, someone here (too busy too check, i'll just guess it was Casey :P) said something about these spiritual journeys that give them a better understanding of the world. Was just questioning this.

Well anyway, I don't have too much of a view on legalising marijuana, It's easy as fuck to get without it being legal and i don't smoke it, so i don't really care at all. But, i think, at the moment, at least in Australia, the anti-marijuana campaigns are fucking HORRIBLE, and do hardly anything productive to stop people from using it, it's all kind of pointless, they probably should give up and make it legal.

[Babali]

If you're looking for spiritual journeys, pot really isn't the way to go. Unless by "spiritual journey" you mean eating an entire box of chocolate donuts and giggling at stupid shit.
Stereotype, stereotype, stereotype.

Usually you go on spiritual journeys because you look within yourself. I guess I must just be one of those heavy thinkers, though, because I go on spiritual journeys without marijuana, I just find that it slightly enhances the experience.

Getting giggly and eating a ton of shit is a typical teenage stoner stereotype, but hundreds of thousands of other people use it for real worthwhile reasons.

edit: To explain my definition of a spiritual journey:

A spiritual journey for me are those times where I can pinpoint bad things about my psychology, my personality, and I can work out flaws, I can figure out things that have been bothering me, in the end I can get more things accomplished than previously, etc.

[11:54]

Come on, you can't be arguing with that.

Marijuana isn't the kind of drug that makes you act violent. Sure, some people get paranoid. But that paranoia, more often than not, causes them to retreat from people, not lash out at them. And the effects on your health have never (read: NEVER) been proven to be detrimental. As a matter of fact, there are chemicals in marijuana that actually kill off cancerous cells in the lungs. The brain damage thing has never, ever been conclusively proven, and probably never will be proven.

Cell phones and alcohol have lead to more deaths than pot has, I'm willing to bet.

I'm not "arguing" with that. I said it because Casey said weed has never killed anyone.


PLEASE explain to me why something that has never caused a single death is illegal.

Either way, there are a lot of biased opinions here. Though, I didn't expect anything less. It happens everywhere. Not one person has really gave a really, really good legit reason as to why it should be legal.

[Babali]

Yes they have. It should be legal because it's never proven to do any harm and no one should be able to control what you do with your own body as long as you don't hurt another human being. How is that not a legit reason?

[F-ck Casey]

and not one person has given a good explanation as to why it's illegal and should remain that way. also, weed has never killed anyone. if someone smoking marijuana killed someone, i'm willing to bet you there's either something wrong with the person, or they're on a more violent drug, like PCP. weed itself has never caused someone to keel over and die.

[11:54]

So what? It impairs your ability to function normally. I wouldn't want people driving high just as much as I wouldn't want them driving drunk. There's no point in making it legal anyway. The government would tax the hell out of it and people would still but it from the streets anyway. So what's the point of making it legal? Tell me, what is the point?

[Paul]

He started doing weed aged 14 and did it for roughly 10 years. By doing weed, like so many other people, the enjoyable buzz opened the door for him to experiment with other drugs. I wont go into which ones he was on but I do know other people that have used weed as a gateway to move on to much harder drugs. My brother has only very recently stopped doing weed and for the first few months he quit he got severe withdrawel anxiety to the point where he would sweat and go into insane moodswings.

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, but I have been smoking weed for about 3 years now and never once have I had the tempatation to try another drug. The only other drug I have done besides marijuana is Aderal and that was because I needed a kick to pull off an all nighter.

But back to the subject, yes I think weed should be legalized. The government could make millions off it.

[Dean]

Let's see, why pot should be legal...

- As has been stated, various things that are at least as dangerous are legal whereas pot isn't. At the very least, there's a flawed principle in place there.
- Again as has already been stated, legalisation wouldn't be mutually exclusive from still having certain restrictions in place. If anything, that would make it easier to regulate.
- As demonstrated here whenever the government has flip-flopped over its classification, the closer it is to being legal the less people attempt to go through the necessary channels to posess/use/buy it illegally.
- A heck of a lot of money could be made from it.
- With due respect to Luke, I'm pretty sure that in the majority of cases it isn't a gateway drug. I know one person who's gone on to have problems with harder drugs and, well, he was a fucking idiot anyway. It's not like the first time a spliff touched his lips he decided he was going to get hooked on heroin and drop out of school. He already had it within himself to become what he is now.

[Iain]

Let's see, why pot should be legal...

- As has been stated, various things that are at least as dangerous are legal whereas pot isn't. At the very least, there's a flawed principle in place there.
- Again as has already been stated, legalisation wouldn't be mutually exclusive from still having certain restrictions in place.
- As demonstrated here whenever the government has flip-flopped over its classification, the closer it is to being legal the less people attempt to go through the necessary channels to buy it illegally.
- A heck of a lot of money could be made from it.
- Banning anything that can impair people mentally would be a total fallacy.
- With due respect to Luke, I'm pretty sure that in the majority of cases it isn't a gateway drug. I know one person who's gone on to have problems with harder drugs and, well, he was a fucking idiot anyway. It's not like the first time a spliff touched his lips he decided he was going to get hooked on heroin and drop out of school. He already had it within himself to become what he is now.

I couldn't have phrased it any better.

[Jen]

So what? It impairs your ability to function normally. I wouldn't want people driving high just as much as I wouldn't want them driving drunk. There's no point in making it legal anyway. The government would tax the hell out of it and people would still but it from the streets anyway. So what's the point of making it legal? Tell me, what is the point?

I can't find the figure that I wanted to use in my argument, but the amount of money that is spent annually on marijuana eradication is in the millions. The state of California has its own specialized police force that deals solely with finding large scale illegal grows and destroying them. Now, with as fucked up as our national economy is, that money could be better spent on much more important things, and if the government would pull their heads out of their collective asses and legalize and tax it, that's even more money that this country could have that would help to solve our economic crisis.

[Timothy]

Stereotype, stereotype, stereotype.

I wasn't being completely serious, good sir. :P


Let's see, why pot should be legal...

- As has been stated, various things that are at least as dangerous are legal whereas pot isn't. At the very least, there's a flawed principle in place there.
- Again as has already been stated, legalisation wouldn't be mutually exclusive from still having certain restrictions in place. If anything, that would make it easier to regulate.
- As demonstrated here whenever the government has flip-flopped over its classification, the closer it is to being legal the less people attempt to go through the necessary channels to posess/use/buy it illegally.
- A heck of a lot of money could be made from it.
- Banning anything that can impair people mentally would be a total fallacy.
- With due respect to Luke, I'm pretty sure that in the majority of cases it isn't a gateway drug. I know one person who's gone on to have problems with harder drugs and, well, he was a fucking idiot anyway. It's not like the first time a spliff touched his lips he decided he was going to get hooked on heroin and drop out of school. He already had it within himself to become what he is now.

Also:

- It has numerous medicinal purposes.
- Like Casey said, hemp is pretty much a wonder crop with a minimal environmental impact.
- Double standards are horseshit (I know Dean already said that, but it bears repeating).
- Arresting people for possessing small amounts of marijuana is a tremendous waste of time and resources.
- Drug prohibition hasn't benefited society in any way, as far as I can see.

[Luke]

I'd be interested to see a trial run of it legalised and see what the positive and negative effects would be then. I'm guessing to the majority of people it isn't a gateway drug as people have argued here but we'd soon find out if it was legalised.

[Christopher]

I'd be interested to see a trial run of it legalised and see what the positive and negative effects would be then. I'm guessing to the majority of people it isn't a gateway drug as people have argued here but we'd soon find out if it was legalised.

It's legal in Holland, they're a good "test" case, I'm sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

Quite interesting how there's no real connection between the amount of usage and whether it's legal or not.

Also, legalizing the drug doesn't mean the government will spend less money on prevention, the opposite seems to be the case.

However, growing it is still illegal and should be left to people abroad... so it's not like the "farmers" will benefit at all from legalization.

http://12.media.tumblr.com/9cyPFQbgCpk4qsrkCE2MUxZBo1_500.gif

[F-ck Casey]

I'm completely and utterly done with this conversation, but on a closing note I'd like to urge everyone to watch "American Drug War: the Last White Hope". If you have movie channels in America, it's on Showtime. For nearly 2 hours I watched this documentary, and I laughed, cried, cursed at the tv... and thought of this thread the entire time.

Find it on YouTube in parts, watch it on Showtime, buy the DVD, download it through a torrent, I don't care, but everyone that has commented in this thread needs to watch it, regardless of their stance on marijuana and other drugs.

I now also have a craving for mushrooms. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyuBuT_7I4

[Dean]

http://12.media.tumblr.com/9cyPFQbgCpk4qsrkCE2MUxZBo1_500.gif
Oh, you.

[Christopher]

Nothing will ever make me want to do drugs more than The Breakfast Club.

@Dean: <3

[Jesse]

The strange thing about this is, my dad just this morning confessed to me that he once did acid and cocaine.. and I have no idea why. But he agreed the government could make money if they legalized Marijuana

[linkinlovprk]

Well I can see why to legalize it, and why not to legalize it.

In my personal opinion I don't think it should be legalized, it has ruined way too many of my friends lives. Maybe I picked bad friends? Maybe they just let it control them. They've spent countless dollars.. Going oh well, the moneys for weed. Why should someone spend so much money on a plant that makes them happy for a little bit? Video games may be addicting, but at least your paying 20-60 dollars for something that lasts? Same goes for internet. I can't say a whole lot about cigs or drinking, as I don't really have an opinion over them, I do think there should be some restriction with the two though.

Now for the other side.
Weed should be legalized. To each their own, IF they're causing no others harm. If you wanna just smoke a doobie and relax, that's your decision. Honestly the government kinda owes us one, so why not legalize it? Some people could argue that "stress from the government" made them smoke, ya know? There's so many arguments supporting the legalization of weed, and so little against it. I'm positive the U.S. government will legalize it. I wouldn't be surprised if it also prohibited it again.

[Miko]

Im going to agree with the weed be legal it would save so much money and keep people out of jail i have a better arguement but i dont have the time to lol