Global Warming

[El Muerto]

Staff edit: We moved the bickering from the news post about Live Earth Tokyo to the Global Warming thread, and as a result JJ87's intro post was moved down the page because the debate had started in that thread before this one had been created. Just carry on despite the chaotic sequencing of the posts.

The effects actually are showing in our lifetime.

[Derek The Infamous]

The effects actually are showing in our lifetime.

Exactly. We're having unusual weather patterns (this is going to be the busiest hurricane season in years) and nobody cares. They think global warming is just BS made by scientists.

[arbaks]

all I have to say is WOW my respect for the band is deteriorating now

there are people that are so ignorant and unaware about the real world

this must be another brainless teen that only thinks about getting laid...

[blueeye]

all I have to say is WOW my respect for the band is deteriorating now
Because of the ignorant people like you, the world is like it is today. Sad.

I hope you`ll think about it again and maybe change your mind.

[El Muerto]

Exactly. We're having unusual weather patterns (this is going to be the busiest hurricane season in years) and nobody cares. They think global warming is just BS made by scientists.

I think this was one of the warmest winter here in last 100 years. I almost forgot what snow is.

On the other hand, I was doing some reading about global warming couple of weeks ago for my classes, and I found out the things considering global warming and glasshouse effect are much better now that 10 years ago. So if they're not lying the improvement has been made. Hopefully events like this could only raise the awarenees a bit more and make governmens pass the laws about not letting out freons and other shit into the atmosphere.

LP ftw.

[JJ]

we all no about it, and and force-fed the scientists views on the news and such. just wondered what your views on this topic are. with LP set to play Live Earth to raise awareness about 'global warming' and thought it would be a good topical thread to start..

personally i dont think we are suffering from global warming. yes pollution isnt going to help the situation but in the past we, the world, have been in this predicament before.

i havent got the stats and figures to baffle you all with but when i was doing my geography A-Level at college this was something we disscussed in great detail. however that was two yars ago so my explanation maybe a little sketchy. simply put - the world is going through a 'warm phase' this has happened several times before, and temperatures have fluctuated throughout time. i said simply put. this time round we have tonnes of pollution in our skies - some parts worse than others across the world with deforestation and such things playing a huge part in - that wasnt a facture in years gone by. even tidal parterns play a roll in this. as you can see - there are many factors and something needs to be done. but part of this is just nature i believe.

we cant just blame whats happening on 'global warming' - its many things.

[El Muerto]

Global warming is a myth.

[Mark]

Global warming is a myth.

You're probably giving people the wrong impression with that comment.

An Inconvenient Truth is a great movie to pick up if you want to learn more about global warming. Many of the statistics in the movie are very scary. I mean, 13 of the hottest recorded summers in history have been since 1990. That's got to tell you something.

[Todd]

Something's wrong when I had to drive with the A/C on in the beginning of March....

[Louis]

My city's temperature went up from the 70's to the 90's in less than 2 weeks in April. That's kind of unusual. I mean, Arizona is naturally a hot state and we're going through a drought, but I've never seen such drastic changes.

[kev]

Winter is much shorter in Alaska. The permafrost is melting up in the arctic. I'd say it's happening right now.

[El Muerto]

You're probably giving people the wrong impression with that comment.


Yeah, maybe.. but I said pretty much everything in that live earth thread and I was too lazy to type it again.

On topic, there's almost nothing we as individuals can do about the greenhouse effect at the moment. It's all up to governments i.e. to the USA government. The best we can do is to use public transport when we can instead of driving cars all the time. :)

[Dean]

Yeah, maybe.. but I said pretty much everything in that live earth thread and I was too lazy to type it again.

On topic, there's almost nothing we as individuals can do about the greenhouse effect at the moment. It's all up to governments i.e. to the USA government. The best we can do is to use public transport when we can instead of driving cars all the time. :)
Pretty much. That's what I meant in the news thread when I said “as if no one knows”.

People could be doing much more productive things than Live Earth. Even Bob effing Geldof thinks so.

[mikhailpreda]

Brainless teen concerned about getting laid? Did it ever occur to you that there are other opinions besides yours? Global Warming is not my concern at all and if we all die because of it or what not OH WELL

[Arlene]

Excuse my french, but global warming is a bunch of bullshit.

I mean, think about it. The earth warms up and cools down, it's just phases that it goes through. And oh em gee we're such bad people driving our SUV's and hurting the Earth and depleting the ozone layer and melting all the ice caps, while on Mars, they have found evidence that the ice caps are melting there too. I don't see anyone driving SUV's on Mars, does anyone else? Exactly. Global warming is a phase that the Earth has always gone through, for example, we went through an ice age, and it warmed up considerably afterwards. So, yeah.

[El Muerto]

Yeah, it happened before, but this time people are here to make even worse ;)

[Arlene]

:lol: I know I'm going to get flamed eventually for my post, but it's my opinion. And I still think it's bull shit. Period.

[Christopher]

Yeah, maybe.. but I said pretty much everything in that live earth thread and I was too lazy to type it again.

On topic, there's almost nothing we as individuals can do about the greenhouse effect at the moment. It's all up to governments i.e. to the USA government. The best we can do is to use public transport when we can instead of driving cars all the time. :)

I don't agree, are you saying it's the USA that's the most harmfull country to global warming, because that's not true, you shouldn't forget about China and a lot of other countries that are putting just as much CO2 in the air as the US.

Or are you saying the USA has to "fix" this because they're the ones that always try to "fix" stuff that's wrong in the world?

Global Warming is happening now and people should care about it, but it's up to the governments to promote a greener life, they're the only ones that can influence people to change.

[El Muerto]

I don't agree, are you saying it's the USA that's the most harmfull country to global warming, because that's not true, you shouldn't forget about China and a lot of other countries that are putting just as much CO2 in the air as the US.

Or are you saying the USA has to "fix" this because they're the ones that always try to "fix" stuff that's wrong in the world?

Global Warming is happening now and people should care about it, but it's up to the governments to promote a greener life, they're the only ones that can influence people to change.

What I meant was that USA are the most influental country in the world at the moment and if they do something huge about it, like bringing some new laws for example, everyone else will follow their example and do the same.

[Joeykat]

Excuse my french, but global warming is a bunch of bullshit.

I mean, think about it. The earth warms up and cools down, it's just phases that it goes through. And oh em gee we're such bad people driving our SUV's and hurting the Earth and depleting the ozone layer and melting all the ice caps, while on Mars, they have found evidence that the ice caps are melting there too. I don't see anyone driving SUV's on Mars, does anyone else? Exactly. Global warming is a phase that the Earth has always gone through, for example, we went through an ice age, and it warmed up considerably afterwards. So, yeah.

I totally agree andanother factor that is warming up the planet is a completely natural one, the sun. The suns emits solar flares into space and of course they will comes towards earth and other planets.

[El Muerto]

And does the sun make holes in ozone layer?

[Joeykat]

And does the sun make holes in ozone layer?

It could do if the flares were strong enough I suppose, but I do think that greenhouse gases don't help the ozone layers current condition

[.Amanda.]

You're probably giving people the wrong impression with that comment.

An Inconvenient Truth is a great movie to pick up if you want to learn more about global warming. Many of the statistics in the movie are very scary. I mean, 13 of the hottest recorded summers in history have been since 1990. That's got to tell you something.
That movie was nothing more than a popularity ploy. Do you really trust a man who believes that he invented the internet to give you any factual information?

Global warming can't be stopped. It's the Earth renewing itself. There was global warming after the ice age too and there were no factories then.

Are we contributing? Yes. Are we the cause? No. Can we stop it? No.

GLOBAL WARMING IS NATURAL. IT'S THE EARTH CYCLING. SCIENCE FTW.

[Arlene]

But nowadays, let's just blame EVERYTHING on global warming. And then blame it on our president. It gets out of hand because people have their heads up their asses. Global warming is total bullshit. I mean, yes the temperature of the earth has increased, but it's natural, it's supposed to do that. And anyone who blames global warming on the government or the president...hm...that's just ridiculous. That's like blaming, i don't know, women having a menstrual cycle on the president. It's natural. And that's just how it is.

[Todd]

That movie was nothing more than a popularity ploy. Do you really trust a man who believes that he invented the internet to give you any factual information?


http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Do I trust someone who can't get her goddamn facts straight? Hell no.

[Friskey™]

But nowadays, let's just blame EVERYTHING on global warming. And then blame it on our president. It gets out of hand because people have their heads up their asses. Global warming is total bullshit. I mean, yes the temperature of the earth has increased, but it's natural, it's supposed to do that. And anyone who blames global warming on the government or the president...hm...that's just ridiculous. That's like blaming, i don't know, women having a menstrual cycle on the president. It's natural. And that's just how it is.

I love you :lol:

[Andrea]

That's like blaming, i don't know, women having a menstrual cycle on the president. It's natural. And that's just how it is.

I lol'd. :lol:

[Arlene]

I love you :lol:

Oh, I'm flattered. :lol: I'm glad some people are agreeing with me...I'm afraid I'm going to get totally flamed, :lol:

[Omar]

If anything the world is getting colder.

[Arlene]

If anything the world is getting colder.

Was that meant to be metaphorical? :lol: Because it almost sounded that way, :D.

[Friskey™]

Was that meant to be metaphorical? :lol: Because it almost sounded that way, :D.

He's pretty much speaking as it is. Yeah, we had 40 degree temperatures and snow showers in middle of April. Yeah, global warming's fucking happening. :lol:

[Luke]

Here in England we get crazy fucked up weather regardless of Global warming. In fact this past week is a classic example. Between Monday and Thursday we got temperatures up to 29 degrees whereas today it was fucking freezing with rain and gale force winds. :lol:

Anyhoo I do think that Global Warming is very over-exagerated. I think it's a natural occurance that we partially contribute to. I mean cars and other pollution wern't around in the ice age and yet that melted itself out.

[Derek The Infamous]

Brainless teen concerned about getting laid? Did it ever occur to you that there are other opinions besides yours? Global Warming is not my concern at all and if we all die because of it or what not OH WELL

No, but it has occured to us though that based on this post, you're highly immature, (most likely) unintelligent and probably under the age of 18.

If you don't like the way people talk about you, then stop being ignorant. Bottom line.

It's amazing just how childish some of the new kids are on this board =).

[.Amanda.]

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Do I trust someone who can't get her goddamn facts straight? Hell no.
Wow. NOW who's the one who can't take a joke?

Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ on a stick.

[Todd]

Wow. NOW who's the one who can't take a joke?

Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ on a stick.

Because your post just screams "Look at me, I'm a joke!" :rolleyes:

[Derek The Infamous]

Wow. NOW who's the one who can't take a joke?

Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ on a stick.

Wow. NOW who's the one who is taking things too seriously?

Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ on a stick!

Word of advice dear Amanda? When you put a joke in a serious sounding post, and offer absolutely no "jk" to go along with it, more than often people are going to take what you say seriously and think that you were really stupid enough to insinuate that you believed that rumor about Al Gore.

For someone who claims to be an expert on debating, I hate to say that you don't do it very well, nor understand the concept of it either.

To summarize: If you're debating the existence of global warming do not put a joke about Al Gore in the same post. More than likely its going to come off like you are using that as part of your arguement.

My advice? Relax. If you keep flipping out like this, I promise you that you're going to be warned for it. Freedom of speech or not, you have an attitude problem.

[Jalie]

Brainless teen concerned about getting laid? Did it ever occur to you that there are other opinions besides yours? Global Warming is not my concern at all and if we all die because of it or what not OH WELL

May sound a bit harsh, but why don't people like you found a suicide club? You don't really seem to care about this life and would leave this world to those people who want to live, who want to fight. But with people like you still living, the concerned people have more problems to repair the damages you cause.
But I guess you're too dead to kill yourself.

[Jammist]

LoL, all the fighting is amusing. This will be a good chance for LP to showcase their new album for sure. As for global warming, it is a problem...ask any conservation biologist how its affecting wildlife.

In the class I just took we learned how the seal population in Canada is receding because the layers of ice over the water have thinned out so much that seal pups cant sit on them without causing them to crack... so they end up drowning because they are not strong enough to swim for more than a few minutes. Interesting, yet depressing stuff :cry:

[Xenogenesis]

Brainless teen concerned about getting laid? Did it ever occur to you that there are other opinions besides yours? Global Warming is not my concern at all and if we all die because of it or what not OH WELL

I hope your children end up suffering from the consequences you've laid out for them. Have a nice day sir.

[Mark]

That movie was nothing more than a popularity ploy. Do you really trust a man who believes that he invented the internet to give you any factual information?

When he provides credible scientific information to back up his claims, why not?


Global warming can't be stopped.

Are we contributing? Yes. Are we the cause? No. Can we stop it? No.
You're right about that. But we can stop feeding it and slow it down by being more energy and pollution concious.

Human activity is a major cause of the factors attributing to global warming. That's common knowledge.


GLOBAL WARMING IS NATURAL. IT'S THE EARTH CYCLING. SCIENCE FTW.Care to elaborate? I think I know what you're talking about, but I'm not entirely sure if you actually do because you don't really explain any of your points.

If you truly meant "science for the win", you'd be listening to the thousands of scientists crying out about this crisis.

[Mark]

May sound a bit harsh, but why don't people like you found a suicide club?

While I agree with the argument about global warming you're trying to make, I'm going to have to warn you for that comment. That's over the line. There's better ways to voice disagreement. Thank you. :)

[esaul17]

I hope your children end up suffering from the consequences you've laid out for them. Have a nice day sir.

Because we all know punished children for the acts of their parents is a good thing to do.

[Jalie]

While I agree with the argument about global warming you're trying to make, I'm going to have to warn you for that comment. That's over the line. There's better ways to voice disagreement. Thank you. :)

I already wondered, if this comment is going to be approved. But why did you approve it, if it's over the line? Since I'm a Nubi, I thought you have the power to erase my first 50 posts. :unsure:

And of course I need to defend myself a little bit: While I admit that I said what I said in a cynical way, it is kind of the truth taken to another level. It actually is suicide to not care and to destroy himself by not caring. And even worse than suicide, it's murder. I think we have to consider that. And to make people think about something, you need to take messages to different levels to convey them. Everybody doesn't react to the same things. Some people try it this (Grow up, m*therf***er!) or that (Think about your children!) way, I tried to bring in another possibly effective way to say that. But I guess you are aware of all that.
Thank you for approving the post anyway.

To finally contribute something to the topic: I hope LP doesn't play some time in the morning. In the European morning, I mean. But I guess so...

[Arlene]

I already wondered, if this comment is going to be approved. But why did you approve it, if it's over the line? Since I'm a Nubi, I thought you have the power to erase my first 50 posts. :unsure:

And of course I need to defend myself a little bit: While I admit that I said what I said in a cynical way, it is kind of the truth taken to another level. It actually is suicide to not care and to destroy himself by not caring. And even worse than suicide, it's murder. I think we have to consider that. And to make people think about something, you need to take messages to different levels to convey them. Everybody doesn't react to the same things. Some people try it this (Grow up, m*therf***er!) or that (Think about your children!) way, I tried to bring in another possibly effective way to say that. But I guess you are aware of all that.
Thank you for approving the post anyway.

To finally contribute something to the topic: I hope LP doesn't play some time in the morning. In the European morning, I mean. But I guess so...

Are you saying that global warming is "murder"? *looks in disbelief*

[esaul17]

Murder implies intent. At best (worst?) Global Warming could be manslaughter. I mean, unless this guy opened his refrigerator door and thought "Excellent, the whole planet is now DOOMED!".

[Arlene]

Murder implies intent. At best (worst?) Global Warming could be manslaughter. I mean, unless this guy opened his refrigerator door and thought "Excellent, the whole planet is now DOOMED!".

:lol: I like the fridge thing, that was amusing. But global warming in no way can be compared to "manslaughter" or "murder." That's just ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[Jalie]

:lol: I like the fridge thing, that was amusing. But global warming in no way can be compared to "manslaughter" or "murder." That's just ridiculous. :rolleyes:

It can indeed be compared to murder. Let's compare global warming to a Damokles sword above our heads. There are people, who try to strengthen the string which holds the sword and there are people who weaken the string by their ignorance, and they know that they weaken the string. Thus, when the Damokles sword falls and kills us, it's clearly the fault of those, who didn't try to strengthen the string and who weakened the string by their ignorance.
So they killed you, they knew that they would kill you and you don't want to call it murder? Well, I want to.

Just because the persons who do you/us harm are not standing directly in front of you/us, they can kill you/us anyway. And just because the weapons are different and used with different intentions, CO² still is kind of a weapon, who can kill and where people know that it can kill.

Agree or disagree with my comparisons, I know that no judge in the world would ever call it murder, but you definitely understand what I mean and that's the way I feel about it.

[Spike]

Well,if i was you,i would take a second thought in the whole global warming thing...I mean,sure we do a lot damage to the nature,and i believe global warming is real,but,you all know about the "hole of ozon" (i dont know if thats what they say it in english)...well,scientists have said it is real...but at the same time,i think 1 year ago,info leaked by scientists again,that the "hole of ozon" doesnt exists and it is just something said on purpose for some reasons i dont remember...so,we have either 1 truth and 1 lie,or 2 bull@its at the same time?noone knows,so you cant say for sure what is real and what is not ^_^...Also lets not forget that Ice Age was a hell of a change of the climate at a period that mankind didnt exist...and i doubt that dinosaurs pissed gasoline or breathed toxic gasses :P,so we cant take any change as a result of global warming...

As for the show,i think LP are doing great for participating,even if global warming is false...I wont be able to see them,but i guess thats the price i pay for living in Greece :P...anyway, GL to them!!!

[The One And Only....]

ya i dont believe in global warming. i just don't because i don't trust Al Gore, and for two i'm sure that this has happend in the past as well, you know, how the weather changes drastically. i don't really trust science anyways because alot of what they are "trying" to prove isn't plausible...

[Zak]

Because we all know punished children for the acts of their parents is a good thing to do.

Psalm 109:10!



I guess everyone can have their own opinion. I think it's something we should obviously be concerned about.

I don't know about the comment about hottest winter, though. I mean, we got hit with a HUGE ice storm here. I thought that was something definitely in favor of Global Warming, though. While we're less protected from the heat, it also isn't trapped to keep us warm as well during those winter months.

I'm proud of Linkin Park for doing things like this. I think it's good!

[Arlene]

It can indeed be compared to murder. Let's compare global warming to a Damokles sword above our heads. There are people, who try to strengthen the string which holds the sword and there are people who weaken the string by their ignorance, and they know that they weaken the string. Thus, when the Damokles sword falls and kills us, it's clearly the fault of those, who didn't try to strengthen the string and who weakened the string by their ignorance.
So they killed you, they knew that they would kill you and you don't want to call it murder? Well, I want to.

Just because the persons who do you/us harm are not standing directly in front of you/us, they can kill you/us anyway. And just because the weapons are different and used with different intentions, CO² still is kind of a weapon, who can kill and where people know that it can kill.

Agree or disagree with my comparisons, I know that no judge in the world would ever call it murder, but you definitely understand what I mean and that's the way I feel about it.

I understand what you mean, but it just doesn't make any sense to call it murder. Yes, the earth has warmed up, but it's a cyclic thing that the Earth has always gone through and always will.

And what you were saying, that people who think global warming is bullshit or people who ignore it, are pretty much murdering other people? I don't want to offend, but that's just stupid...it makes absolutley no sense whatsoever.

[Jalie]

Funny that my suicide/murder comment gets such an response: But here we go:

@ Spike: Ozone depletion isn't real? I was so stunned by your comment, that I started to inform myself and checked different sources. This is what I found out: It is real. Please tell me your sources or go check for yourself about ozone depletion. I think you could need it.

@Qwerty10: Yes, a climatic cycling is indeed natural, and it is partly a natural thing right now in reference to the last Ice Age. But it is obvious that a drastic change of climate and environment began in the 19th century during the industrial revolution. It was more visible in the environment, for example in Britain trunks of trees turned black. But at this time, greenhouse gases and aerosols were equally pumped in the air. Because of the cooling effect of aerosols the warming effect was diminished. But in the 1960-70 the amount of greenhouse gases increased drastically again, the equilibrium has been destroyed and global warming has started to take place. Are you even aware of the masses of gases that are being pumped into the air? Where do you think they go? How could they not cause any harm?
We shouldn't paint things black and white. It is humanity AND the Ice Age.

As for my murder-example, I don't think you understood me properly, because you throw two different cases together: I only talked about people who know it or believe in global warming. If there are people, who found reasonable reasons (theoretically) to not believe in this theory, they just don't know better.
Another example: A girl wants to swallow a pill, which you know will kill her (she doesn't know and there's for some reason no possibility she could). You could act and smash the pill out of her hand to save her. But if you don't do it, she will die. I would call it you killing her. Or what would you blame the pill? Or the producer? Or no one? Then again, if you have reasons to not believe that this pill is deadly, you don't do anything wrong by letting her swallow it. You just don't know better, thus it's not your fault.

Are you getting now what I mean? And just saying "it makes no sense" and calling my words stupid is pretty lazy. It would be more helpful if you point out the logical mistakes. Oh, and I know, the examples don't fit exactly 1:1 to global warming. So please don't come up with small things which don't touch the basis of arguments.

Thanks!

[Arlene]

Funny that my suicide/murder comment gets such an response: But here we go:

@ Spike: Ozone depletion isn't real? I was so stunned by your comment, that I started to inform myself and checked different sources. This is what I found out: It is real. Please tell me your sources or go check for yourself about ozone depletion. I think you could need it.

@Qwerty10: Yes, a climatic cycling is indeed natural, and it is partly a natural thing right now in reference to the last Ice Age. But it is obvious that a drastic change of climate and environment began in the 19th century during the industrial revolution. It was more visible in the environment, for example in Britain trunks of trees turned black. But at this time, greenhouse gases and aerosols were equally pumped in the air. Because of the cooling effect of aerosols the warming effect was diminished. But in the 1960-70 the amount of greenhouse gases increased drastically again, the equilibrium has been destroyed and global warming has started to take place. Are you even aware of the masses of gases that are being pumped into the air? Where do you think they go? How could they not cause any harm?
We shouldn't paint things black and white. It is humanity AND the Ice Age.

As for my murder-example, I don't think you understood me properly, because you throw two different cases together: I only talked about people who know it or believe in global warming. If there are people, who found reasonable reasons (theoretically) to not believe in this theory, they just don't know better.
Another example: A girl wants to swallow a pill, which you know will kill her (she doesn't know and there's for some reason no possibility she could). You could act and smash the pill out of her hand to save her. But if you don't do it, she will die. I would call it you killing her. Or what would you blame the pill? Or the producer? Or no one? Then again, if you have reasons to not believe that this pill is deadly, you don't do anything wrong by letting her swallow it. You just don't know better, thus it's not your fault.

Are you getting now what I mean? And just saying "it makes no sense" and calling my words stupid is pretty lazy. It would be more helpful if you point out the logical mistakes. Oh, and I know, the examples don't fit exactly 1:1 to global warming. So please don't come up with small things which don't touch the basis of arguments.

Thanks!

You definitley make a good argument, I'll give you that, probably much better than I can offer, :lol: I've never been good at debating. There isn't really much more I can say, besides the fact that I don't believe in global warming to be a huge factor that's going to prove deadly to us, because I believe it to be a cyclic manner that will always be there but will eventually equal itself out. I mean, we can go on and on and debate this, but neither of us can really be proven right or wrong. There's proof to back up what you think and proof behind what I think. So, I think we kinda worked this out well, I think we fully understand what the other means, although I give a sucky argument because confrontation isn't my thing. :lol:

[esaul17]

It [global warming] can indeed be compared to murder.

Murder implies intent, as I already said. So you can compare it, but only to say "Hm... I compared global warming to murder and found out they aren't the same thing."

As I said, manslaughter at worst. But really, I would not even go that far. I mean, our actions may indirectly lead to the death of another individual some time between now and hundreds of years in the future. That is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.

Also, there is a difference between letting someone die and kill them. Lastly, to make your example more valid you have to remember it is more similar to 2 billion pills being in front of the girl. Even if you swat your away from her, there are so many people there it is likely enough will let her have the pill so she still dies anyway. And if it greatly inconveniences you to swat the pill away, and it will likely be for nothing, then there is less of a reason to swat it away in the first place.

[Anya]

Global Warming is very evident in Florida IMO. We've had over 200 brush fires recently because of a drought we're having. Weather is absolutely chaotic here. It was hot for a long period during the winter even, and don't even get me started on our mess with hurricanes.

[esaul17]

Global warming is definitely happening. The debate is simply about how at fault we are.

[Jalie]

You definitley make a good argument, I'll give you that, probably much better than I can offer, :lol: I've never been good at debating. There isn't really much more I can say, besides the fact that I don't believe in global warming to be a huge factor that's going to prove deadly to us, because I believe it to be a cyclic manner that will always be there but will eventually equal itself out. I mean, we can go on and on and debate this, but neither of us can really be proven right or wrong. There's proof to back up what you think and proof behind what I think. So, I think we kinda worked this out well, I think we fully understand what the other means, although I give a sucky argument because confrontation isn't my thing. :lol:

Oh, you're not good at debating?! Weird, because you've actually said a lot concerning that topic. I'm just the first one that confronts you with knowledge and arguments, but that compromise you try to work out right here isn't going to work. It would be wrong if it worked.
Once again: Yes, a climatic cycle is natural, but this nature is negativly affected by greenhouse gases, especially since the greenhouses gases have a higher percentage than aerosols. Easily said: Aerosols cool the air, greenhouse gases heaten up the air. Fact.
Since the industrial revolution, ways and amount of emitting particles into the air changed and the climate and environment always responded to it. You could draw a parallel timeline. Fact.
Billions of tons of gases and particles are pumped into the air. Fact. How do you come to the conclusion that these amounts of artificially produced chemical substances CAN NOT have an impact on the climate? How? This is simple math, it's simple chemistry. And the history of this planet, which indeed shows temperature fluctuation.
As I said, we can't only point the finger on the ice age or on humanity, both are known factors.

Do you still want to say that I can't be proven right? Oh yeah, of course I can't know if I'm right. It's like Darwin's theory of evolution. You can't prove it for 100%, but the natural and scientific indicators are so strong, that everything else turns out just stupid. I will always stay open for counter arguments, but I already knew that Ice Age has an impact on the climate as well in our time and I know enough, and I've said enough, to make it clear that humanity is partly responsable for what is happening right now. And for what will happen.

PS: I always sound so serious in debates. I'm sorry for that. I'm quite nice in reality. But if you come up with that Mars comparison you mentioned in another post, I'll tear you apart :lol: :mellow:

esaul 17 said: Murder implies intent, as I already said. So you can compare it, but only to say "Hm... I compared global warming to murder and found out they aren't the same thing."

As I said, manslaughter at worst. But really, I would not even go that far. I mean, our actions may indirectly lead to the death of another individual some time between now and hundreds of years in the future. That is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.

Also, there is a difference between letting someone die and kill them. Lastly, to make your example more valid you have to remember it is more similar to 2 billion pills being in front of the girl. Even if you swat your away from her, there are so many people there it is likely enough will let her have the pill so she still dies anyway. And if it greatly inconveniences you to swat the pill away, and it will likely be for nothing, then there is less of a reason to swat it away in the first place.

And as I already said, I know that no judge would call it murder. Call it "state of death which could have been prevented by human action", if you like to. Say it in any jurisdictional language you want. It gets my point across. It was just a stylistic device, a little exaggeration I used. Sorry if I confused anyone.

And as you said, our actions may indirectly lead to the death of some individual in the future. Yes, and it is everything but right not to try to prevent this. And we should add that, if we are going to see worse consequences of global warming, "some individual" is certainly an understatement.

And yes, there is a difference between killing someone and letting someone die, as well as there is a difference between lying and not telling the truth. But if these actions, let them be passive or active, result in the same negative consequences for the victim, does the difference between that really matter?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your try to crash my example correctly. Do you want to convey the message: There's no sense in doing something good, because too many people are bad?
To make it more clear: The girl represents the passive part, the whole humanity as a victim of possible consequences. You, the person, represent the active part of humanity, the one who has the power to act and to avoid negative consequences. The pill represents the danger as a whole.
In other words: If we act, we can save ourselves fron negative consequences.

[esaul17]

And yes, there is a difference between killing someone and letting someone die, as well as there is a difference between lying and not telling the truth. But if these actions, let them be passive or active, result in the same negative consequences for the victim, does the difference between that really matter?

Yeah, morally at least. Here's an analogy.

Situation 1: a small child accidentally pulls the trigger of a gun he thought was a toy and kills his classmate

Situation 2: a criminal escapes from jail and runs into the school and shoots the aforementioned classmate


The same result in both situation (the classmate dies) but the different circumstances cause the moral value of each action to differ.

And, in reference to your example, my point was this. Your example makes it seem like someone can do a very small, easy thing to surely save the life of another. In reality, a person has to inconvenience themself a decent amount to contribute very slightly to the saving of lives. Just showing this difference.

I don't necessarily disagree with you as a whole, just found a few points you mentioned that seemed they could be expanded upon.

[Arlene]

Once again: Yes, a climatic cycle is natural, but this nature is negativly affected by greenhouse gases, especially since the greenhouses gases have a higher percentage than aerosols. Easily said: Aerosols cool the air, greenhouse gases heaten up the air. Fact.
Since the industrial revolution, ways and amount of emitting particles into the air changed and the climate and environment always responded to it. You could draw a parallel timeline. Fact.
Billions of tons of gases and particles are pumped into the air. Fact. How do you come to the conclusion that these amounts of artificially produced chemical substances CAN NOT have an impact on the climate? How? This is simple math, it's simple chemistry. And the history of this planet, which indeed shows temperature fluctuation.
As I said, we can't only point the finger on the ice age or on humanity, both are known factors.

Do you still want to say that I can't be proven right? Oh yeah, of course I can't know if I'm right. It's like Darwin's theory of evolution. You can't prove it for 100%, but the natural and scientific indicators are so strong, that everything else turns out just stupid. I will always stay open for counter arguments, but I already knew that Ice Age has an impact on the climate as well in our time and I know enough, and I've said enough, to make it clear that humanity is partly responsable for what is happening right now. And for what will happen.

PS: I always sound so serious in debates. I'm sorry for that. I'm quite nice in reality. But if you come up with that Mars comparison you mentioned in another post, I'll tear you apart :lol: :mellow:


To start off, I never said that you COULDN'T be proven right, I just don't think the same as you. Yes, there is fact behind what you think, and I've already said this numerous amounts of time that neither of us can truly be proven correct. And I assume that you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution? I do not. I'm Christian and I'm proud of it. But that's off topic.
I agree with what esaul17 posted about the intent/murder thing. He posed a good example.
And the main reason why I said that I didn't feel like debating this any longer is because there really isn't much more to be said, both you and I are both beginning to sound like broken records, "cyclic manner" "aerosols and greenhouse gases" :lol:
But still, I've already said this numerous amounts of time, and personally I think that global warming is a cyclic thing that will always happen, always has, and has always evened it's self out eventually.
And sure, I'll bring up the Mars thing again. :lol: Let's see what we have to debate about that. Now, I don't have my sources on this, I heard it from my dad, and he's quite up to date about stuff in the news, the thing about Mars' ice caps melting. And if you come back and say something like "we're affecting Mars with our toxins in the air" I might have to tear you apart :lol:
But anywho, same as you said, I dunno if I'm coming off as a bitch, but I hope I'm not! I'm really just a sweet ballerina *bats eyelashes* Haha, but I have to go to school now so...Peace

[Spike]

[QUOTE=Jalie;658758]Funny that my suicide/murder comment gets such an response: But here we go:

@ Spike: Ozone depletion isn't real? I was so stunned by your comment, that I started to inform myself and checked different sources. This is what I found out: It is real. Please tell me your sources or go check for yourself about ozone depletion. I think you could need it.


QUOTE]

You missed my point Jalie,i never said i dont believe in the hole ozon thing,i just say that you never know...have you seen it yourself?just because some scientists said that it means its true?and i would gladly give you my sources if i remembered them...but lets forget the ozon thing,climate changes have happened before,you cant blame global warming for it,a phenomenon that you dont know if its real...im not being absolute with anything.."global warming is/is not real,grow up kids!!"...you cant say that,thats just wrong...and i am not refering only to you,i am refering to everyone here that makes this kind of statements...i hope i made my point clear now :)...

[Jalie]

Yeah, morally at least. Here's an analogy.

Situation 1: a small child accidentally pulls the trigger of a gun he thought was a toy and kills his classmate

Situation 2: a criminal escapes from jail and runs into the school and shoots the aforementioned classmate


The same result in both situation (the classmate dies) but the different circumstances cause the moral value of each action to differ.

And, in reference to your example, my point was this. Your example makes it seem like someone can do a very small, easy thing to surely save the life of another. In reality, a person has to inconvenience themself a decent amount to contribute very slightly to the saving of lives. Just showing this difference.

I don't necessarily disagree with you as a whole, just found a few points you mentioned that seemed they could be expanded upon.

Of course there is a difference in moral concerning the situation you have just given. But your example seems a little too far away from what we are discussing. Situation 1 describes a person that doesn't know better, but I talk about people who do know better. And I already said in a post before, that I don't blame people who found honest reasons to not believe in global warming. Their actions can't be considered as morally wrong if they don't know better. But in general, to me, killing someone and letting someone die doesn't make a morally difference. Of course there are exceptions, like if I would have to sacrifice my life to save an other person (depends on who it is), but in general it is the same for me. Perhaps it is worth discussing that.

And of course everything is harder and more complicated than my example has put it. But that's why there are examples: To make something more simple to convey the argumentative basis in an easier way. So I know: In reality there are much more people and it's not that easy to save them/us.


To start off, I never said that you COULDN'T be proven right, I just don't think the same as you. Yes, there is fact behind what you think, and I've already said this numerous amounts of time that neither of us can truly be proven correct. And I assume that you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution? I do not. I'm Christian and I'm proud of it. But that's off topic.
I agree with what esaul17 posted about the intent/murder thing. He posed a good example.
And the main reason why I said that I didn't feel like debating this any longer is because there really isn't much more to be said, both you and I are both beginning to sound like broken records, "cyclic manner" "aerosols and greenhouse gases" :lol:
But still, I've already said this numerous amounts of time, and personally I think that global warming is a cyclic thing that will always happen, always has, and has always evened it's self out eventually.
And sure, I'll bring up the Mars thing again. :lol: Let's see what we have to debate about that. Now, I don't have my sources on this, I heard it from my dad, and he's quite up to date about stuff in the news, the thing about Mars' ice caps melting. And if you come back and say something like "we're affecting Mars with our toxins in the air" I might have to tear you apart :lol:
But anywho, same as you said, I dunno if I'm coming off as a bitch, but I hope I'm not! I'm really just a sweet ballerina *bats eyelashes* Haha, but I have to go to school now so...Peace

Take a look at your first passage:"I never said that you COULDN'T be proven right" and then "I've already said this numerous amounts of time that neither of us can truly be proven correct".
So you say: I could be proven right, but neither of us can be proven right? Is it just me or is their a little logical mistake?

I was just being nice saying "it's not 100%", but actually you just need to know a few facts and effects of gases and particles. Greenhouse gases have certain characteristics, and it IS proven that one of these characteristics are, that they store the warmth of the sun inside the atmophere. Ever heard of greenhouse effect? Logical next step: The more gases are pumped into the air, the more heat will be stored. Is that so hard to understand? How the hell could it have no effect? Tell me, how? I only said, not 100% proven, because people and scientists have difficulties on pointing the finger on global warming, you can't make a photo of it. But with a little knowledge of facts and factors and effects, everybody should be able to realise that global warming is real.
You are a christian? Die-hard at least? Then it should be hard for you to believe in an ice age, because the present one started approximately 2.7 million years ago. And as you know, god created the earth within the last 10000 years. And he made us woman out of a rib. Oh man...

Considering that Mars thing: Yes, I know that the ice caps on mars are melting. The comparison between Mars and Earth just didn't make sense, because the situation and the environment of those two planets are totally different.

[QUOTE=Spike;658888 You missed my point Jalie,i never said i dont believe in the hole ozon thing,i just say that you never know...have you seen it yourself?just because some scientists said that it means its true?and i would gladly give you my sources if i remembered them...but lets forget the ozon thing,climate changes have happened before,you cant blame global warming for it,a phenomenon that you dont know if its real...im not being absolute with anything.."global warming is/is not real,grow up kids!!"...you cant say that,thats just wrong...and i am not refering only to you,i am refering to everyone here that makes this kind of statements...i hope i made my point clear now :)...[/QUOTE]

Yes, I've seen it. Ozone depetion is visible on images made by satellites.

As for global warming, you seem to share the same opinion ( it's really hard to call it opinion and not something worse) as Qwerty10. It's very hard to discuss with three people at once, so please read the stuff I just posted for Qwerty10.

[esaul17]

You missed my point Jalie,i never said i dont believe in the hole ozon thing,i just say that you never know...have you seen it yourself?just because some scientists said that it means its true?and i would gladly give you my sources if i remembered them...but lets forget the ozon thing,climate changes have happened before,you cant blame global warming for it,a phenomenon that you dont know if its real...im not being absolute with anything.."global warming is/is not real,grow up kids!!"...you cant say that,thats just wrong...and i am not refering only to you,i am refering to everyone here that makes this kind of statements...i hope i made my point clear now :)...

Well, it is pretty arrogant to just say "All the scientists are wrong, and I know better then all of them with no evidence."

I mean, look at new information critically, but don't ignore scientific evidence without having your own to fall back on.

[Arlene]

Well, it is pretty arrogant to just say "All the scientists are wrong, and I know better then all of them with no evidence."

I mean, look at new information critically, but don't ignore scientific evidence without having your own to fall back on.

He never said that all scientists are wrong, he just said that there is a possibility that scientists could be wrong. I mean, maybe I'm wrong and other people are wrong and global warming is a big deal, but it may not be. Not trying to sound like I'm telling you off or anything, but you totally twisted what that person said, saying that they said that all scientists were wrong. ^_^

[esaul17]

Well, almost all scientists in the field believe in evolution.

[The One And Only....]

Well, almost all scientists in the field believe in evolution.

ummm....no. you can't say that ALMOST ALL scientists beleive in evolution because that isn't true....unless you can bring me a realistic survey taken by scientists that they beleive in evolution then i will admit that you are right. but the thing is, there isn't. just because some scientist found out about evolution, doesn't mean all scientists beleive in it. to me, evolution is just another silly thing like global warming to promote and finance for the greater good of higher people. It's just another thing to scare people, just like Y2K, which everyone beleive in, and in the end, it was tottaly bogus.

[Mark]

to me, evolution is just another silly thing like global warming to promote and finance for the greater good of higher people. It's just another thing to scare people, just like Y2K, which everyone beleive in, and in the end, it was tottaly bogus.

Global warming is a scare tactic used by higher-ups for their own financial and powerful means? That's absurd, especially considering the US gov't hasn't acknowledged the real threat of Global Warming. Ever wonder why? I'll give you a hint, it's not because "all the science isn't in".

Government, meet vehicle and oil industry. Vehicle and oil industry, meet government. These two institutions are very closely linked to one another and feed off each others' wealth and influence. If the US gov't was to acknowledge global warming and begin to take steps towards reducing emissions and pollution, guess who gets the shaft? The vehicle and oil industry.

You're caught up in the spin machine of the conservatives and US gov't and are just repeating the same stuff you've been fed by the administration and Fox News. Become informed!

[esaul17]

ummm....no. you can't say that ALMOST ALL scientists beleive in evolution because that isn't true....unless you can bring me a realistic survey taken by scientists that they beleive in evolution then i will admit that you are right. but the thing is, there isn't. just because some scientist found out about evolution, doesn't mean all scientists beleive in it. to me, evolution is just another silly thing like global warming to promote and finance for the greater good of higher people. It's just another thing to scare people, just like Y2K, which everyone beleive in, and in the end, it was tottaly bogus.


"The follow-up study reported in "Nature" reveals that the rate of belief is lower than eight decades ago. The latest survey involved 517 members of the National Academy of Sciences; half replied. When queried about belief in "personal god," only 7% responded in the affirmative, while 72.2% expressed "personal disbelief," and 20.8% expressed "doubt or agnosticism.""

Source: http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Here, only 7% of the scientists surveyed believe in God. While I am not saying a disbelief in God means a belief in evolution, you must admit most Creationists do have some form of a spiritual belief.


While most US scientists think humans are simply smarter apes, at least 4 in 10 believe a creator "guided" evolution so that Homo sapiens are ruled by a soul or consciousness, a new survey shows. Scientists almost unanimously accept Darwinian evolution over millions of years as the source of human origins. But 40% of biologists, mathematicians, physicians, and astronomers include God in the process.

Source: http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/rncse_content/vol17/5319_many_scientists_see_god39s__12_30_1899.asp

This shows even theist scientists still believe in evolution.


"Scientists do not debate whether evolution occurred; evidence from biochemistry, geology, anthropology, geochronology, biology, medicine and other scientific disciplines shows emphatically that it has. That is why [virtually all scientific organizations] all name evolution as a unifying concept of science and note that sciences such as geology, biology and anthropology 'cannot be taught with integrity if evolution is not emphasized.'"

Source: http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/evo.tchng.survey.html

The scientific community as a whole is not undecided. Evolution is strongly supported. We shouldn't continue this, as it is kind of off topic, but you should be aware that evolution is not still greatly doubted by scientists in the appropriate field.

[Mark]

The scientific community as a whole is not undecided. Evolution is strongly supported. We shouldn't continue this, as it is kind of off topic, but you should be aware that evolution is not still greatly doubted by scientists in the appropriate field.

Kind of off-topic? Completely off-topic! Back to Global Warming, you two.

[Arlene]

You're caught up in the spin machine of the conservatives and US gov't and are just repeating the same stuff you've been fed by the administration and Fox News. Become informed!

Fox News is the only reliable news that you can watch/listen to nowadays, if you want to get truthful information that isn't biased.

[esaul17]

Fox News is the only reliable news that you can watch/listen to nowadays, if you want to get truthful information that isn't biased.

Prepare to be flamed?

[Arlene]

.

Take a look at your first passage:"I never said that you COULDN'T be proven right" and then "I've already said this numerous amounts of time that neither of us can truly be proven correct".
So you say: I could be proven right, but neither of us can be proven right? Is it just me or is their a little logical mistake?

I was just being nice saying "it's not 100%", but actually you just need to know a few facts and effects of gases and particles. Greenhouse gases have certain characteristics, and it IS proven that one of these characteristics are, that they store the warmth of the sun inside the atmophere. Ever heard of greenhouse effect? Logical next step: The more gases are pumped into the air, the more heat will be stored. Is that so hard to understand? How the hell could it have no effect? Tell me, how? I only said, not 100% proven, because people and scientists have difficulties on pointing the finger on global warming, you can't make a photo of it. But with a little knowledge of facts and factors and effects, everybody should be able to realise that global warming is real.




Heh, at the very beginning, about the
:"I never said that you COULDN'T be proven right" and then "I've already said this numerous amounts of time that neither of us can truly be proven correct".
Eh, it was worded funny. What I mean by that is that it's hard for either of us to be proven correct, but we could be with more evidence to back it up. That's what I meant. And don't knitpick stuff like that, it seems that you are just trying to say as much as you possibly can to lengthen your post. And I've already said it in probably about 4 posts by now what I think, andso have you. So I really don't understand why you keep repeating yourself over and over again. I'm not trying to be a bitch, but seriously, you've posted the same thing over and over, slightly re-worded about 3 times by now, and I have as well just to respond. So yeah.
But I'll say it just once more, I don't believe global warming to be a big deal. The earth naturally does it, and it will even itself out. Yes, the earth has warmed up, and the crap we put into the atmostphere probably has something to with it, but I don't think it's something that the earth won't fix itself.

And at Esaul17 *headdesk* why do I voice my opinion anymore? :lol: Sure...why not?

And ah jeez, Jalie, I just read over that post a few times after posting it, and I sound like a major bitch. :lol: I don't mean to, I swear!! *hides*

[Todd]

Fox News is the only reliable news that you can watch/listen to nowadays, if you want to get truthful information that isn't biased.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME, RIGHT?

[Mark]

Fox News is the only reliable news that you can watch/listen to nowadays, if you want to get truthful information that isn't biased.

That is the most hilarious statement of the century! :lol:

No wonder you're against the premise of Global Warming!

Brit Hume? Is that you? :lol:!

[Arlene]

That is the most hilarious statement of the century! :lol:

No wonder you're against the premise of Global Warming!

Brit Hume? Is that you? :lol:!

*shrug* At least I've got the balls (errr not literally :lol:) to state my opinion.

[Mark]

*shrug* At least I've got the balls (errr not literally :lol:) to state my opinion.

Didn't you just shy away from debating a few short posts ago?

I've been sharing my opinion this entire thread. Only mine has been backed up by thousands of scientists worldwide.

[Arlene]

Didn't you just shy away from debating a few short posts ago?

I've been sharing my opinion this entire thread. Only mine has been backed up by thousands of scientists worldwide.

I attempted to, but I still did defend myseld, but I've been repeating myself because I don't have anything else to say. That's why I wanted to get out of it. *headdesk* It's simply my opinion and what I think and I really can't say much more about it. I think I'm going to stop visiting the global warming thread because noone agrees with me and I'm getting my ass kicked :lol: But I'm not going to do something drastic like damn you all to hell for disagreeing with me. :lol:

[Mark]

I attempted to, but I still did defend myseld, but I've been repeating myself because I don't have anything else to say. That's why I wanted to get out of it. *headdesk* It's simply my opinion and what I think and I really can't say much more about it. I think I'm going to stop visiting the global warming thread because noone agrees with me and I'm getting my ass kicked :lol: But I'm not going to do something drastic like damn you all to hell for disagreeing with me. :lol:

It's hard to argue when you don't know what you're talking about, isn't it? ;)

Just a tip for the future, don't base your opinion on what Fox News tells you. Delve deeper. Find the truth. Because they're certainly not spreading it. :)

[esaul17]

I attempted to, but I still did defend myseld, but I've been repeating myself because I don't have anything else to say. That's why I wanted to get out of it. *headdesk* It's simply my opinion and what I think and I really can't say much more about it. I think I'm going to stop visiting the global warming thread because noone agrees with me and I'm getting my ass kicked :lol: But I'm not going to do something drastic like damn you all to hell for disagreeing with me. :lol:

You have opinions of things like whether Spiderman 3 was a good movie, or Linkin Park is a good band. Opinions mean nothing in science. A scientific theory is not an opinion, and as such you can be wrong and not everyone has to respect your opinion. Don't act like I am unfairly treading on your opinion, you said something and it was pretty much flat out wrong. You asked for sources, so I provided them to the best of my ability. Things pretty much went like this:

I say "X"
You say "Show me sources supporting X and I will admit you're right"
I provide sources
You say "Why do I even voice my opinion anymore?"

Just saying.

[Chris Luke]

just so everyone knows, global warming occured a few years back. sup @ chu ice age.

but it is a issue since it's not supposed to occur this fast, but we can't prevent the ice caps melting and getting so cold that our great great great great great great great great great great great grandchild's balls will be gagging from going up and down.

we can delay it, but not stop it, it's going to happen.

[Snail]

I remember reading that in about 80 years' time, due to global warming, most of the world will face famine. North America will be less likely to be affected as harshly. I would try to find the article that discusses upon this topic but...too lazy. Ta ta.

I feel sorry for our grandchildren =T.

[Jalie]

Heh, at the very beginning, about the
:"I never said that you COULDN'T be proven right" and then "I've already said this numerous amounts of time that neither of us can truly be proven correct".
Eh, it was worded funny. What I mean by that is that it's hard for either of us to be proven correct, but we could be with more evidence to back it up. That's what I meant. And don't knitpick stuff like that, it seems that you are just trying to say as much as you possibly can to lengthen your post. And I've already said it in probably about 4 posts by now what I think, andso have you. So I really don't understand why you keep repeating yourself over and over again. I'm not trying to be a bitch, but seriously, you've posted the same thing over and over, slightly re-worded about 3 times by now, and I have as well just to respond. So yeah.
But I'll say it just once more, I don't believe global warming to be a big deal. The earth naturally does it, and it will even itself out. Yes, the earth has warmed up, and the crap we put into the atmostphere probably has something to with it, but I don't think it's something that the earth won't fix itself.


I'm not even sure if you will visit this thread again, but I decided to change my style and just ask you a few questions. The main question is: What is it, that you don't believe in?

Don't you believe in greenhouse gases?
Don't you believe in their effects?
Don't you believe that they are being pumped into the air?
Don't you believe in the greenhouse effect?
Don't you believe in what history has already proven (I mean that the earth is not able to repair a destroyed equilibrium)?

And to say I just repeat myself is pretty mean. Yes, I used the same facts as the basis, but tried different styles of conveying my arguments to you. I wanted to discuss, but how could we make progress, if you just keep on saying; I don't believe it, because of the ice age. It's a fact, that the ice age is an important influence, but where are the facts behind the belief, that it is JUST the ice age?

@ Spike: Wow, you did a great job. It's really worth discussing with you.

Now I need to take a break from LPA, because tomorrow I will be at ROCK AM RING and see LP friday!!! :D

[Spike]

How many times do i need to say that im not being absolute?im only sayin "what if?..."...seriously,u call me arrogant for saying that MAYBE scientists lie about a phenomenon??come on...and tell me where did i say that i know better than them?i know nothin,i just say a perfectly normal thing,that they MAYBE say it on purpose...MAYBE the ozon depletion hasnt happened,but CAN happen,and scientists say that it has already happened just to do get us concerned and try to prevent it from happening...and that is completely natural and i would be happy if they told a lie just to protect humanity...the same can be for global warming...so i dodnt know what you mean by arrogant,but im just looking at both sides,i dodnt think this is arrogance...i respect everyones opinion,so please,next time you want to post something for anything i said,read my post carefully,or else,dont post lies....

[Mark]

How many times do i need to say that im not being absolute?im only sayin "what if?..."...seriously,u call me arrogant for saying that MAYBE scientists lie about a phenomenon??come on...and tell me where did i say that i know better than them?i know nothin,i just say a perfectly normal thing,that they MAYBE say it on purpose...MAYBE the ozon depletion hasnt happened,but CAN happen,and scientists say that it has already happened just to do get us concerned and try to prevent it from happening...and that is completely natural and i would be happy if they told a lie just to protect humanity...the same can be for global warming...so i dodnt know what you mean by arrogant,but im just looking at both sides,i dodnt think this is arrogance...i respect everyones opinion,so please,next time you want to post something for anything i said,read my post carefully,or else,dont post lies....

If you want anyone to take your points seriously, you might want to consider proper punctuation, sentence structure, and the usage of periods instead of commas. That's damn near impossible to read. It's just a block of letters.

[Daniel]

:lol: I know this is supposed to be a SERIOUS Chat thread, but I thought this was just a fun light-hearted take on the whole global warming situation:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Global_Cooling

[Spike]

You are right,my punctuation was indeed wrong,bad habbit from other forums ;).Anyway,if anyone has problems reading it put 1 dot in the place of the 3 dots that i put and it will be more readable friendly :).

Jalie i hope you were not being ironic by saying that you enjoyed our discussion.Anyway,i enjoyed this conversation!My first time to post here and im glad that it was about such a serious theme ^_^

Id like to say some last things though in case i was misunderstood:
1)when i wrote my first post,i wasnt refering to you jalie,i was talkin in general ^_^

2)I believed that both phenomenos were real,but since i read about 2 speeches by universities(also one of them happened in my country and my mother was there and she heard it),i began to have doubts,thats all,i dont know better than scientists,its what the scientists said that splitted my opinion in half ;).

3)Im proud of linkin park for participating in such a concert
^_^

Anyways,im not gonna right any more,so see ya in another thread!

[The One And Only....]

i still dont believe in global warming, don't call me arrogant, but until i have full blown proof on such a huge thing, i just won't believe it, they haven't 100% proven it yet either. and yes FOX is a good thing to watch for news because it does keep updated, what other kinds of stuff are you supposed to watch or read on the internet? all the other stuff is probably biased and most likely fake. and the reason i brought that whole "religion" thing in was because it was in another post and i was just putting in my opinion on the whole thing which still doesn't prove much....

[Mark]

i still dont believe in global warming, don't call me arrogant, but until i have full blown proof on such a huge thing, i just won't believe it, they haven't 100% proven it yet either. and yes FOX is a good thing to watch for news because it does keep updated, what other kinds of stuff are you supposed to watch or read on the internet? all the other stuff is probably biased and most likely fake. and the reason i brought that whole "religion" thing in was because it was in another post and i was just putting in my opinion on the whole thing which still doesn't prove much....

You hear that?

That was your credibility getting thrown out the window.

How does one go about 100% proving Global Warming? Is there a percentage you can apply to it? Thousands upon thousands of our top scientists, people with degrees who know what they're talking about, have published thousands upon thousands of articles linking greenhouse gases and feedback processes to global warming. They're directly linked! This isn't some conspiracy theory to get electric cars into the mainstream: it's a real threat that is causing devastating current weather phenomena that will only continue to get worse as the years progress!

A man trips and goes face first into the sidewalk, breaking his nose. Would you say the sidewalk was the cause of the broken nose? Of course you would, because it's directly linked!

Your children and grandchildren will not be thanking you for such ignorance.

[The One And Only....]

You hear that?

That was your credibility getting thrown out the window.

How does one go about 100% proving Global Warming? Is there a percentage you can apply to it? Thousands upon thousands of our top scientists, people with degrees who know what they're talking about, have published thousands upon thousands of articles linking greenhouse gases and feedback processes to global warming. They're directly linked! This isn't some conspiracy theory to get electric cars into the mainstream: it's a real threat that is causing devastating current weather phenomena that will only continue to get worse as the years progress!

A man trips and goes face first into the sidewalk, breaking his nose. Would you say the sidewalk was the cause of the broken nose? Of course you would, because it's directly linked!

Your children and grandchildren will not be thanking you for such ignorance.

no, i still won't believe it! there have been too many scientific screw ups that make me caution what i believe what they tell us! also if a man tripped and broke his nose, i wouldn't say it was the sidewalks fault i would say it was the object/his fault for not watching what he was tripping over. if it was a rock, then it is the rocks fault, if it was his shoe, his fault for not tying it!!!:D

[esaul17]

no, i still won't believe it! there have been too many scientific screw ups that make me caution what i believe what they tell us! also if a man tripped and broke his nose, i wouldn't say it was the sidewalks fault i would say it was the object/his fault for not watching what he was tripping over. if it was a rock, then it is the rocks fault, if it was his shoe, his fault for not tying it!!!:D

I really hope you don't believe in God.

[Mark]

no, i still won't believe it! there have been too many scientific screw ups that make me caution what i believe what they tell us! also if a man tripped and broke his nose, i wouldn't say it was the sidewalks fault i would say it was the object/his fault for not watching what he was tripping over. if it was a rock, then it is the rocks fault, if it was his shoe, his fault for not tying it!!!:D

If we're going to invent alternate storylines to my hypothetical situation, he wouldn't have broken his nose if he had caught himself in time, or fallen into a mound of pillows. The point of contact was the reason he broke his nose.

But that's off-topic. I didn't expect that to progress further than that one mentioning. Back to matters:

"Too many scientific screw ups?" Do you believe the Earth is flat or something? That unwillingness to believe in concrete facts just goes to prove you should not be discussing topics like this in Serious Chat. An open mind is essential to debating, so please come back when you have one.

[Dr. Faust]

I don't get how you can't believe this.

[Rahat]

Neither do I there are scientists worldwide worried about this so i don't get why people chose to ignore this.

[The One And Only....]

im not ignoring this, im just saying i don't believe it is as big of a deal as they are saying it is, this has happend in the past, and it will most definatley happen in the future. and no i dont think the world is flat i just think that scientists have screwed up too much for me to completly rely on them with something to this magnitude. and yes i do believe in god, and yet, i dont see how that has to do with anything....and i was just kidding about the whole breaking his nose thing, notice how i have a smiley face? yes that is why i put it there, otherwise i wouldn't have. just trying to bring some life and humour into this thread.....so it doesn't get so dull.

[Todd]

and yes i do believe in god, and yet, i dont see how that has to do with anything

Because there have been enough religious screwups to make you caution what you believe

[Dedicated]

I don't think that global warming is a myth however I do feel it may be being blown out of proportion. I also think that people are getting the wrong message from the information they are being handed, for instance I know someone who thinks that the ice caps will melt and that we'll all drown because of it. I mean, that's completely stupid. Yes, the ice caps will melt but due to most of the ice being underwater, we won't notice as much of a water rise as you'd think. People don't understand that the problems concerning the ice caps are to do with the cooling of the Gulf stream, etc.

Also, I feel that our generation is being blamed far too much for all of this. I mean, it's not really us that's done anything. Infact, we're the ones trying to solve the problems. Considering that carbon emissions have been cut dramatically in recent years means that no one can really go on at us for causing global warming. Surely?

[Theazninvasion68]

I believe it's happening.

From what I can tell, It's hotter and hotter every summer in this valley, and theres so much more smog then there was 4 years ago. Heck i can barely see the mountains and before, I could see them crystal clear.

[Mark]

and no i dont think the world is flat i just think that scientists have screwed up too much for me to completly rely on them with something to this magnitude.

Like what? When has modern science ever been wrong on something of this magnitude? And don't just Google scientific screw-ups.

You're turning a blind eye to this because you want to, not because there's information out there to support your decision.


just trying to bring some life and humour into this thread.....so it doesn't get so dull.

This is a serious discussion, humour's not meant to be brought into it.

[markb777]

yes researchers have discovered why the ice caps were melting...it was once thought that increasing CO2 levels were the cause by global warming...but this photo has been taken proving without a doubt that polar bears having too many BBQs was the real reason the ice caps were melting...
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bgmark_quik/bear1.gif

[The One And Only....]

I don't think that global warming is a myth however I do feel it may be being blown out of proportion. I also think that people are getting the wrong message from the information they are being handed, for instance I know someone who thinks that the ice caps will melt and that we'll all drown because of it. I mean, that's completely stupid. Yes, the ice caps will melt but due to most of the ice being underwater, we won't notice as much of a water rise as you'd think. People don't understand that the problems concerning the ice caps are to do with the cooling of the Gulf stream, etc.

Also, I feel that our generation is being blamed far too much for all of this. I mean, it's not really us that's done anything. Infact, we're the ones trying to solve the problems. Considering that carbon emissions have been cut dramatically in recent years means that no one can really go on at us for causing global warming. Surely?

agreed....


yes researchers have discovered why the ice caps were melting...it was once thought that increasing CO2 levels were the cause by global warming...but this photo has been taken proving without a doubt that polar bears having too many BBQs was the real reason the ice caps were melting...
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bgmark_quik/bear1.gif

lol:D

[Penny]

Check this site:
http://www.climatehotmap.org/index.html

It has map which illustrates the consequences of global warming.

[Colonel Sanders]

we must act like right now yo

[Penny]

Something must happen about global warming and not only in stupid papers which none country follows up.We must DO something!!!