Linkin Park vs. George Bush

[Todd]

Split from this thread (http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24556).


Linkin Park's gone anti Bush? I think I'm a fan again :lol:

[Luke]

Linkin Park's gone anti Bush? I think I'm a fan again :lol:

Leave it to you to say that. :lol:

[Derek The Infamous]

This song is DEFINITELY about Bush and I love it.

Linkin Park, you rule. I voted (and even fought/debated) for Bush and it was the worst and most regretted decision of my life.

[Detri]

This song is DEFINITELY about Bush and I love it.

Linkin Park, you rule. I voted (and even fought/debated) for Bush and it was the worst and most regretted decision of my life.

Same here. He was just at the time the better option... Kerry = joke but Bush = murderer

[Derek The Infamous]

Same here. He was just at the time the better option... Kerry = joke but Bush = murderer

I never thought I'd go with Bush = Murderer remarks, but I have to admit you're right. Every US Soldier we've lost in Iraq to me is murder since that war has gone on TOO long.

[mikhailpreda]

I saw on here people thought no more sorrow was about Bush, its most likely about hillary clinton

[Todd]

I saw on here people thought no more sorrow was about Bush, its most likely about hillary clinton

thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard

[Ant]

I never thought I'd go with Bush = Murderer remarks, but I have to admit you're right. Every US Soldier we've lost in Iraq to me is murder since that war has gone on TOO long.
IMO, I could partially see what people who say that in regards to Iraqi civilians, but to say U.S. soldiers is asinine. I don't think you can call it that since they enlisted. Whether or not they agree with the war doesn't matter, they signed up for service. There's no draft anymore. I definitely support them being there, especially if they disagree with the war, however. I don't know that I'd be able to do that.

[Rosh]

Sigh, I hope this doesn't turn into a political anti-Bush thread.

[esaul17]

IMO, I could partially see what people who say that in regards to Iraqi civilians, but to say U.S. soldiers is asinine. I don't think you can call it that since they enlisted. Whether or not they agree with the war doesn't matter, they signed up for service. There's no draft anymore. I definitely support them being there, especially if they disagree with the war, however. I don't know that I'd be able to do that.

Well, they enlisted to fight for their country. Not to be thrown into a war that doesn't really concern them for politicians greed. I mean, I guess you could argue that, when they enlisted they should have known they'd become tools of the government, but I still think it is a little unfair to say "they enlisted, this is what they get."

[Paul]

Enough with this political talk...

The Serious Chat message board is this way...

--------------------------------------->

[Todd]

Well, they enlisted to fight for their country. Not to be thrown into a war that doesn't really concern them for politicians greed. I mean, I guess you could argue that, when they enlisted they should have known they'd become tools of the government, but I still think it is a little unfair to say "they enlisted, this is what they get."

Agreed. When you enlist, you expect that if in the rare chance you're going to war, you're going for valid reasons, not some lies fabricated by a greedy, trigger happy president

[Friskey™]

Note to all of the bands out there in America...

SHUT UP AND SING! I'm fine hearing your political views and stuff, but I hate it when it's dipped into my music.

[Louis]

Note to all of the bands out there in America...

SHUT UP AND SING! I'm fine hearing your political views and stuff, but I hate it when it's dipped into my music.

Thank you, my brother. Thank you.

[Detri]

Note to all of the bands out there in America...

SHUT UP AND SING! I'm fine hearing your political views and stuff, but I hate it when it's dipped into my music.

While I at one point would have agreed with you, the current president has completely ruined every shred of hope I ever had for a somewhat decently ran government. He handled 9/11 well, but everything beyond that was a catastrofuck. If I was to start a band right now, I would name it "Buck Fush".

[Todd]

He handled 9/11 well

I'm not sure that ignoring intelligence stating that there will be an attack, and then when the attack happens, sitting there for over 7 minutes reading My Pet Goat because you don't know what to do because you're an incompetent moron could be considered "well"

[My Violent Heart]

I'm not sure that ignoring intelligence stating that there will be an attack, and then when the attack happens, sitting there for over 7 minutes reading My Pet Goat because you don't know what to do because you're an incompetent moron could be considered "well"
That was a lmfao.

[Joeykat]

I'm not sure that ignoring intelligence stating that there will be an attack, and then when the attack happens, sitting there for over 7 minutes reading My Pet Goat because you don't know what to do because you're an incompetent moron could be considered "well"

LOL! That made my morning :lol:

Doesn't help that he has blair for his personal ass licker >_< So Blair has driven the UK into the ground and Bush America :mellow:

I love 'No More Sorrow' because it is beautifully made and the lyrics are just WOW! :lol:

[Chris(tmas)]

I never thought I'd go with Bush = Murderer remarks, but I have to admit you're right. Every US Soldier we've lost in Iraq to me is murder since that war has gone on TOO long.
..by Iraqi people. Not by George Bush.

[Derek The Infamous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYrchJaoHK0

Since it says thanks to The Bing Bing Wizard, I assume an LPAer made this. I got it offa LPU. It's very powerful.

[Arhaz]

I'm not sure that ignoring intelligence stating that there will be an attack, and then when the attack happens, sitting there for over 7 minutes reading My Pet Goat because you don't know what to do because you're an incompetent moron could be considered "well"

He wasn't even reading it. The book was upside down...:lol:

[Harlz]

LOL! That made my morning :lol:

Doesn't help that he has blair for his personal ass licker >_< So Blair has driven the UK into the ground and Bush America :mellow:



yea, and John Howard (Australian Prime minister and biggest wanker of all time)

Can't wait for the election next year, all we need is for Peter garret to become labour leader...


PG 4 PM already!!

:cloud:

[Klootzak]

He wasn't even reading it. The book was upside down...:lol:
hehe... rofl!
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5208/upsidedownlo0.jpg

Isn't LP a little to late to make anti-Bush songs? He already is at the end of his term.

[El Muerto]

omg I can't believe it was really upside down :mellow:

[Joeykat]

Most of the countries that are involved in the Iraq war are going to pot. Blair has been in power in the UK for 10 years almost now, and he is still blaming things that have gone wrong on the Conservatives. Well I'm sorry Blair but I am voting them back in because they want to give responsibilty back to the citizens when labour took it away and made us depend on them; look what happened.. :rolleyes:


The book was upside down?? :blink: I think all Presidents and PMs should pass a literacy, common sense and IQ test before electing themselves to govern a country...

[Ant]

Agreed. When you enlist, you expect that if in the rare chance you're going to war, you're going for valid reasons, not some lies fabricated by a greedy, trigger happy president
It doesn't matter what you expect, it matters what you sign up for. You can expect to be paid a million dollars working at Target all you want, it doesn't mean that's what's going to happen.

And please, esaul17, don't put words in my mouth. In no way did I say "they enlisted, this is what they get," so don't tell me that's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, when you enlist, you enlist no matter what the consequences. I would never say what you're claiming, as I have numerous relatives involved in the military, including a brother. Don't tell me what I'm saying. I understand your point and respect it, but please don't speak for me.


Note to all of the bands out there in America...

SHUT UP AND SING! I'm fine hearing your political views and stuff, but I hate it when it's dipped into my music.
I don't mind political songs when they are slightly vague and can last the test of time. For example, if "No More Sorrow" is indeed about the current President (and it seems it is), I don't mind it at all.

[goodbyetonight]

Note to all of the bands out there in America...

SHUT UP AND SING! I'm fine hearing your political views and stuff, but I hate it when it's dipped into my music.


Agreed 100%. I love LP to death, and I have for about 5 years now, but if they keep making songs like that they're definitely gonna have trouble keeping me as a fan.

[mikhailpreda]

um if hes so blood thirsty why did Kerry support it, Hillary support it, hell most of the big democrats all jumped on the "patriotic" bandwagon

[Todd]

um if hes so blood thirsty why did Kerry support it, Hillary support it, hell most of the big democrats all jumped on the "patriotic" bandwagon


Because they thought the president might actually tell the truth about something. At least Kerry and Hillary are capable of admitting that they have made a mistake, unlike dubya who thinks he's perfect and would never screw up

[Derek The Infamous]

The book upside down is a false urban legend:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/bushbook.asp

But yes Bush is still stupid.

[Luke]

Most of the countries that are involved in the Iraq war are going to pot. Blair has been in power in the UK for 10 years almost now, and he is still blaming things that have gone wrong on the Conservatives. Well I'm sorry Blair but I am voting them back in because they want to give responsibilty back to the citizens when labour took it away and made us depend on them; look what happened.. :rolleyes:


The book was upside down?? :blink: I think all Presidents and PMs should pass a literacy, common sense and IQ test before electing themselves to govern a country...

The thing is, I hate Tony Blair. I can remember when I was just a little kid he was cocking up and going back on the things he said. Nothings changed since. However in saying that I do feel that people are too harsh on him sometimes. I mean America is our biggest ally, I don't think any other Prime Minister from any other party would have said no to going to war in Iraq because of that.

The thing I hate is that Blair has dented the very fabric of what makes Britain Britain by becoming a lap dog to the biggest liar and most evil son of almost equally bigger bitch.

So I don't entirely blame Blair (even though I hate him with a passion), I blame Bush. There are no words to describe what an absolute demon he is.

[Ant]

Because they thought the president might actually tell the truth about something. At least Kerry and Hillary are capable of admitting that they have made a mistake, unlike dubya who thinks he's perfect and would never screw up
With all due respect, the same could be said about Bush -- you could say he thought the information given to him was accurate. It just depends on what you're willing to believe, and which side you sway to. I personally think he would have gone in either way, and I personally think Kerry and Hillary would have supported it either way as long as the public supported it.

[Joeykat]

The thing is, I hate Tony Blair. I can remember when I was just a little kid he was cocking up and going back on the things he said. Nothings changed since. However in saying that I do feel that people are too harsh on him sometimes. I mean America is our biggest ally, I don't think any other Prime Minister from any other party would have said no to going to war in Iraq because of that.

The thing I hate is that Blair has dented the very fabric of what makes Britain Britain by becoming a lap dog to the biggest liar and most evil son of almost equally bigger bitch.

So I don't entirely blame Blair (even though I hate him with a passion), I blame Bush. There are no words to describe what an absolute demon he is.

Well said :)

But I still hate Blair with a vengeance, when the time comes to vote I am voting Conservative back in because I agree with their policy. :)

[Rather Red]

Sometimes I don't know if Bush is being an idiot or being a liar. It's probably a little of both, and you have to be an idiot to be so evil to lie to your nation anyway.

As for LP bashing Bush, I think it's funny that Chester says he's grown up, so only now he cares about current issues. Sounds like he was more of an idiot before than apathetic. I think the real reason they're saying this now is because Warner is giving them more room to breathe now, even if it is "cool" to Bush-bash now. BTW in reference to Bush-bashing, I love this quote from Rolling Stone:

"'That's the most punk-rock thing you can do in L.A.: say "George Bush is f*cking awesome" instead of talking about how lame it is that he's fighting for oil,' says Parker. 'The only way to be more hardcore than everyone else is to tell the people who think they're the most hardcore that they're p*ssies, to go up to a tattooed, pierced vegan and say, "Whatever, you tattooed f*ggot, you're a pierced f*ggot and whatever." '' He looks very pleased with himself. 'That's hardcore.'"
-Trey Parker

[Joeykat]

As I said in another thread kind of related to this.

No More Sorrow doesn't have to be just related to Bush, it can be about any political leader, a couple of example could include; Blair, Hitler and Saddam. Because most political leaders lie to get support from their constituents and the fact that a lot of money and lives have been lost in the Iraq war kind of sucks. Doesn't help that I heard yesterday on the news that Bush said no to a veto and he still wants troops in the frontline. At least Blair is slowly letting British troops come home; very slowly might I add.

But as I said, this song doesn't just have to be about the current leaders :)

[minuteforce]

i'd just say "anti-government", it's not really "anti-bush" specifically, to me. :rolleyes:

[Derek The Infamous]

I suggest you all go to google video and look up a documentary called "Loose Change". Make sure you get the newest one thats an hour and a half long or so (2nd Edition Recut).

I believe it will completely change your opinion on this administration and even September 11th. Infact after watching it, I no longer trust most of Washington right now.

[Joeykat]

Watching it now :)


Well er was until it suddenly stopped >.<

[Dean]

It's sad that Labour are actually the best of our first parties. I'd vote Green if it wouldn't essentially be wasting my vote.

[Joeykat]

Hmm, it was polling day today. Did I get my polling card in the post? Nope.

I think Labour did it on purpose so they won't lose :P

[Ant]

Derek: I've already seen it, and it didn't really change my opinion. It's good for entertainment value, but that's about it, I think. Just my opinion, but if a movie or documentary -- any movie or documentary -- can change your beliefs, you're easily influenced. It's good that you're trying to expand your knowledge, but I highly suggest looking to both sides of a situation and looking at more than movies, which are normally over-exaggerations meant to sway those on the fence on an issue, as most people would rather watch a movie than actually read information.

After hearing the clip for "Hands Held High," there's no doubt that song will be politically motivated in nature far more than "No More Sorrow."

[goodbyetonight]

I wish they'd STFU about politics....they're really starting to make me dislike them. If Chester hates the country so much, he should just leave. I'm sure we'll survive.

[11:54]

I wish they'd STFU about politics....they're really starting to make me dislike them. If Chester hates the country so much, he should just leave. I'm sure we'll survive.

I hope you don't listen to the album.

Good review, I pretty much agree with it.

[Mark]

Or perhaps if you hate the music so much, you could stop listening to it.

It's the same thing.

[Rather Red]

whoever couldn't interpret "the little things give you away" themselves really needs to get the hell out of their cave and keep up on the world around them.

i'm dissapointed mtv made "hands held high" sound like an immature argument (like the gas prices and bush's stupidity) when really the argument was about the unjustified war and cheney's shady ties to halliburton (look it up... probably need to if you couldn't understand TLTGYA).

[Rather Red]

I wish they'd STFU about politics....they're really starting to make me dislike them. If Chester hates the country so much, he should just leave. I'm sure we'll survive.

oh yeah that's a mature argument. let me guess, you're either 10 years old, or an uninformed conservative. same intellectual level anyway.

if you don't like the lyrics, either ignore them or stop listening.

[Gitsnik]

I think it's rather interesting that they begin writing about politics.
Nice interview.

[goodbyetonight]

Ahh...bashing because of politicial affiliation.....I'd say that makes you the immature one.

And I'm NOT listening to the political songs on the album, I'm listening to the others, which I enjoy every much.

[EagleMorph]

Ahh...bashing because of politicial affiliation.....I'd say that makes you the immature one.

And I'm NOT listening to the political songs on the album, I'm listening to the others, which I enjoy every much.

My question for you is this:

Do you not listen to the sociio-political songs because you disagree with them or because you don't think that bands should address society and politics in music? Or both?

[lpcrawling]

Ahh...bashing because of politicial affiliation.....I'd say that makes you the immature one.

And I'm NOT listening to the political songs on the album, I'm listening to the others, which I enjoy every much.

I think the only reason why conservatives are so defensive these days is because they know they are wrong. Obviously everything they've done to this point is absolutely retarded. But hey it's America's fault. Somehow we elected Bush a second time.

[Rather Red]

Ahh...bashing because of politicial affiliation.....I'd say that makes you the immature one.

And I'm NOT listening to the political songs on the album, I'm listening to the others, which I enjoy every much.

weird that you can't get past your supposed affiliation so much as to listen to a song. that's not very open-minded now is it.

let's see, you told the band to "STFU" about their views because it makes you "dislike" them. it's what inspires them, in case you didn't read the article. they've contributed to the katrina effort, to live 8, etc. and they want to sing about what they've learned from it, and you won't even listen to music because those views are too "liberal"? the album title itself is political, which probably means these views pervade the entire album.

you skip over songs, not because their musicality is bad or the poetry of the lyrics is poor, or it's not catchy and fun, but because you have a political disagreement with the lyrics. if that's not closed-minded i don't know what is.

i normally can find a common ground with conservatives because i can sometimes see where they're coming from and understand it's what they've learned. but it's this stubborn, closed-minded, covering your ears and shouting "i'm not listening!" approach to any views opposite to yours, even insofar as to completely ignore pieces of music from your (presumably) favorite band, that disturbs me.

[Will]

I suggest you all go to google video and look up a documentary called "Loose Change". Make sure you get the newest one thats an hour and a half long or so (2nd Edition Recut).

I believe it will completely change your opinion on this administration and even September 11th. Infact after watching it, I no longer trust most of Washington right now.

That's one of the worst documentaries that's been made about this whole situation, and I strongly oppose the current government.

[LP Tekkie]

oh yeah that's a mature argument. let me guess, you're either 10 years old, or an uninformed conservative. same intellectual level anyway.

if you don't like the lyrics, either ignore them or stop listening.

Wow. What a mature stance. I'm a pretty staunch conservative, yet I wouldn't consider myself uninformed. I have a BS in Political Science and am working on my Master's in Public Administration. I'd think twice about calling names...

[Rather Red]

Wow. What a mature stance. I'm a pretty staunch conservative, yet I wouldn't consider myself uninformed. I have a BS in Political Science and am working on my Master's in Public Administration. I'd think twice about calling names...

it wasn't about conservatives, who i can usually get along with. i go to pepperdine... it's conservative central. laura bush was our commencement speaker last week. i was just pretty disgruntled about that kid hating on LP for their political stance and their newfound voice. he was saying it wasn't their place to talk about politics when it clearly is (with all they've done for katrina, live 8). i was just saying he shouldn't tell them to "STFU" about it when he's most likely less informed than they are. the latter bit was a snide remark :)

edit: you all are assuming i meant all conservatives are uninformed. i'm sorry if it seemed that way, but if i said "an uninformed conservative" that isn't making a generalization, it's singling the person out.

[catfish24]

I think the only reason why conservatives are so defensive these days is because they know they are wrong. Obviously everything they've done to this point is absolutely retarded. But hey it's America's fault. Somehow we elected Bush a second time.
I'm a conservative and I hate President Bush. I think you're semi-right. I look at it this way: Most conservatives don't want to admit they were wrong because they're scared what other people will think of them.

[Christopher]

..by Iraqi people. Not by George Bush.

I thought just the same thing... in a War people die and you can't blame one person for that.

Linkin Park is a little late with this song and it's rather unnessessary, but it's a pretty decent song so...

[LP Tekkie]

I understand. Just don't call names. I've listened to LP for six years and knew that they would become a bit political when they got a little bit older. They're entitled to their opinions and they're entitled to incorporate them into their music. I don't agree with them mocking the leader of our country, but I respect their freedom to do so, because it's the same freedom that allows me to say that I don't agree with their opinion on this issue. Either way, the songs are good.

[CureForTheSession]

I really hate how much people hate on the war. Look, I understand that you don't like it and it should be over now, but there's two things that every person needs to understand.

1. If you got a sheet on your paper saying "A very reliable source has told us that Iraq has or will soon have weapons of mass destruction and will launch them at the United States soon," would you just say "Ah, I doubt it's reliable information. Don't worry about it."? No, I'd say most people would do something about it. Whether or not he should have gone to war is somewhat debatable, but just because he did doesn't mean he's "trigger happy"

2. True, this war has gone on for long enough, but it could end sooner if the left wing would just stop trying to set a freaking time table to get out and, oh I don't know, give us an exit strategy. Let us send some more troops over to finish the job faster and get out. Constantly trying to set completely unrealistic timetables to get out of there will accomplish nothing and only make things worse. It may have been Bush's call to go to war, but the left has done NOTHING in the last 2 or 3 years to help the situation, which makes the problem worse. Stop complaining and try to be civil about it and stop being stubborn jackasses and compromise a bit.

With ALL that said, I really do like Hands Held High and TLTGYA is sooooo amazing. Though I do think the "studdering and mumbling" statement in HHH was a cheap shot. A lot of people do that.

Oh well. I'm buying the special edition no matter what LP's political status is.

[Todd]

1. Your theory might work if the bush administration didn't fabricate evidence showing that there were WMDs and a link between Iraq and Al Quaeda. But instead, the son of a bitch lied and now we have 3,000 troops dead, hundreds of thousands of civilians dead, and a civil war destroying what was once a soverign, somewhat civilized (at least more than it is now) nation.

2. Who's been in complete control of the government up until January 2007? Oh yeah, that's right, the republicans. Don't blame this mess on the Democrats. It was all of those fucking conservatives who allowed this war to escalate to the mess it has become. For 4 years the republicans were in charge of this. The Democrats were given the job of polishing a turd, which we all know is impossible, so don't blame this on them. The best thing for us, the soldiers and the middle east would be to flush that turd and end any involvement with it. Let the Iraqis fight their own god damn war, we shouldn't be a part of it. Timetables aren't unrealistic, sending in more of our soldiers to get killed is.

[Rube Ranter]

Note to all of the bands out there in America...

SHUT UP AND SING! I'm fine hearing your political views and stuff, but I hate it when it's dipped into my music.

What are they suppose to write about? Stuff they don't believe in? People often write music from things that inspire them. Chester felt so strongly about Katrina that it drove him to write a song about it. Same with Mike and if No More Sorrow is about that, then so be it. This is a politcally inspired album and since their last, their's a lot of stuff that's gone down. They have an awful lot that might have moved them or touched them in some way.

I'd rather have these political songs at this point rather then see Chester scream "Don't turn your back on me, I won't be ignored" or "Shut up when I'm talking to you" for another 12 songs and call it an album. These lyrics have meaning and depth, and for me, makes the music more interesting.

You write about things that inspire you, move you. Thats what these guys did. If you don't like it, don't support their album, don't listen to their music. The Dixie Chicks learned the hard way.

[CureForTheSession]

The administration didn't fabricate the evidence. the idiot who gave the information did. As for the whole Al Quaeda and Saddam link, I honestly haven't done enough research to make any response to that one, so I'll just stay away from it. And you can't honestly say the world isn't a better place with Saddam Hussein dead. The war might not have been totally about killing him, but he died because of it, and the world is a much better place with him gone. Iraq might be temporarily worse, but that will most likely change in the next few years.

Just gotta say one thing before I continue this argument. I am in no way saying those 3000 lives mean nothing. I know many people that have been personally affected by this war and who have expierienced terrible losses. War isn't a pretty thing. That said, in the civil war, we lost over 600,000 people, with over 200,000 of those being military members. And that was also in about four years. There have been greater losses. Again, no disrespect to those who have fallen, but the amount of lives lost has been extremely over publicized. Plus, there could have been less dead if we could get some agreement on BOTH sides on Capital Hill.

As for the right being in power for those four years, that's an unfair argument for a simple reason: For probably the first 3 years of that period, most of America was just waiting to see how the war was going to pan out. It wasn't like everyone back then was saying "This war needs to stop now! End it!" like they are now. As we entered the fourth year, yeah, more resistance began to surface, but it didn't really boil over until a little before election time. Agreement was not reached, and I have a feeling it won't be reached until oh, say, February 2009. Nothing will be done with a Senate controlled by the left and a white house controlled by the right. That's another thing that could have been resolved with a little less "wahhhh, stop the war!" by the democrats, and a little more "Let's figure out what we can do to keep the right happy and still reach most of our goals." But I guess that's just a little too big of a concept for those amazing thinkers on Capital Hill to grasp, eh?

[Todd]

So in other words, give in to the republicans because they're the holy, undeniable leaders of this country and it's a crime to go against them? This isn't a dictatorship, we don't have to agree with the party in power. And the fact that only 28&#37; of the country supports this asshole means that he needs to stop being so stubborn and give in to the Democrats who represent a clear majority of what the people want. The right (or should I say wrong?) shouldn't be kept happy because of who they are, that turns us into the same kind of dictatorship you claim you're trying to fight in Iraq.

[catfish24]

1. Your theory might work if the bush administration didn't fabricate evidence showing that there were WMDs and a link between Iraq and Al Quaeda. But instead, the son of a bitch lied and now we have 3,000 troops dead, hundreds of thousands of civilians dead, and a civil war destroying what was once a soverign, somewhat civilized (at least more than it is now) nation.

2. Who's been in complete control of the government up until January 2007? Oh yeah, that's right, the republicans. Don't blame this mess on the Democrats. It was all of those fucking conservatives who allowed this war to escalate to the mess it has become. For 4 years the republicans were in charge of this. The Democrats were given the job of polishing a turd, which we all know is impossible, so don't blame this on them. The best thing for us, the soldiers and the middle east would be to flush that turd and end any involvement with it. Let the Iraqis fight their own god damn war, we shouldn't be a part of it. Timetables aren't unrealistic, sending in more of our soldiers to get killed is.
I'll have to agree with you. The US needs to stop acting as a Peace-Maker.

[CureForTheSession]

"t's a crime to go against them?"

Please, don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not saying that they need to completely given into them. Neither side should ever do that. What I'm saying is that, no matter what the country currently thinks, the people in power need to get things done, and if that takes compromise, then do it. Both sides need to compromise. I wish the right wasn't so set on "stay the course!" but I wish that the left wasn't so set on getting out of there within a year. Neither argument will go anywhere. Without compromise, no argument goes anywhere. That's something everybody in the world, and especially Captial hill (republicans included), needs to learn. That's all I'm saying

[Todd]

There's no middle ground to compromise on. You either stay or you go. And when two thirds of the country wants to go, it's a great injustice to the people you're supposed to represent to tell them that they're wrong, turn your back on them and do things your way. The Democrats are trying to do what we elected them to do: get the hell out of Iraq. You can't blame them for trying to uphold promises they made right before the election. I know that's unheard of in this country, but they're trying to do that and are failing because of our stubborn chimpanzee of a president

[CureForTheSession]

Yes, there is a middle ground. It's called a realistic time table to get out of there and some help doing it. I'm sure you know that we can't just jet out of there because then, honestly, the country would be left worse than we found it. That would be an absolute shame for both sides, because even some democrats voted for the war, which makes them just as responsible. I'm not saying give them three years. I'm saying give them something more than "Begin to phaze the military of Iraq now and have them all gone by the end of the year." Something more realistic is send over a few more soldiers and weapons temporarily in order to gain better control of the situation, and slowly start to send soldiers home at the beginning of 2008, with complete control being handed over to the Iraqis by the end of 2008. A few extra dollars spent and a few lives sacrificed now could save many dollars and many lives later on.

I'm not asking for the democrats to kiss the republican's feet. I'm asking for them to meet them half way.

Oh, and I gotta say, I admire them for living up to their promise. I just wish it was a bit bigger trend on both sides of the political spectrum.

[Todd]

I believe that was the timetable the Democrats proposed. Troops begin getting out in spring 2008.

[CureForTheSession]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/02/AR2007050201517.html

...that would have required U.S. forces to begin withdrawing as early as July.

Apparently not. However, if they did propose that kind of timetable, I'd be all for it. I don't enjoy this war any more than any democrat does. I just think we need to be realistic about how quickly we get out of there.


On a totally non related note, may I ask you....is your post count real? And if so....do you ever get off the computer? :P

[orangemangoes]

this sums your arguements up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mCCYLC-4xA

haha.

[DJRavok]

Just because a majority of people think that troops should be taken out of Iraq..does not make them right. Opinions matter, but they also don't. If we pull troops out of Iraq at this time right now...we are open to attack all over again. The enemy has not been found..that being the reason why we are still over there. I think that deployment could be handled differently. Troops have been away from family too long...I think they should alternate. But seriously, this gas prices and too many people dying is crap. Even Linkin Park's opinion about the billions of dollars spent on war doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. We HAVE to spend billions for troops to give them supplies they need and to keep them fed. I don't know, honestly I think all politics are stupid to begin with. I was just..saying what I felt, not trying to bash anyone. I think this album will be great though, I can't wait to hear the demos and watch the DVD! :blink:

[Todd]

We're more open to attack now than we would be if our troops are home, protecting us here. What good is a military if you have them all overseas? If there was an attack here, we'd be fucked.

We had a terrorist threat at my college in February. Distraught student, bomb threat, and white powder. It took them 14 hours to determine that white powder was powdered sugar and not anthrax. 14 hours to determine that the powder came off a shelf from the neighborhood grocery store and wasn't a biological weapon. 14 fucking hours was how long some people spent in quarantine wondering if they were infected with anthrax or a tasty condiment used on french toast. My coworker and I were talking about it the day after and I had mentioned that I can't believe it took so long for them to figure it out. He said the truest words I've ever heard...."Because all of our good guys are over in Iraq fighting this damn worthless war"

So what if this would have been a genuine attack? Real bombs, real anthrax, real terrorism. Leave it up to the local rent-a-cops who don't do shit except pull people over for going 5 miles over the limit? Let the university meter maids handle it? Wait 14 hours until we can get the experts in and just hope the timer on that bomb doesn't run out? We're more vulnerable now than we ever before.

But people like you have this illusion that the only place terrorists come from is the middle east, and as long as we're fighting them over there, nothing bad will ever happen. But that isn't true, bad people come from all over the world, and some don't come from anywhere and were born and raised here, just like Timothy McVeigh. We can't focus on Iraq, because Iraq isn't the root of terrorism. We're wasting time, money and lives fighting terrorism that we created, when the real key to protection is keeping our protectors close to home, not halfway around the world fighting this unjust war.

[Tomi]

We're more open to attack now than we would be if our troops are home, protecting us here. What good is a military if you have them all overseas? If there was an attack here, we'd be fucked.

We had a terrorist threat at my college in February. Distraught student, bomb threat, and white powder. It took them 14 hours to determine that white powder was powdered sugar and not anthrax. 14 hours to determine that the powder came off a shelf from the neighborhood grocery store and wasn't a biological weapon. 14 fucking hours was how long some people spent in quarantine wondering if they were infected with anthrax or a tasty condiment used on french toast. My coworker and I were talking about it the day after and I had mentioned that I can't believe it took so long for them to figure it out. He said the truest words I've ever heard...."Because all of our good guys are over in Iraq fighting this damn worthless war"

So what if this would have been a genuine attack? Real bombs, real anthrax, real terrorism. Leave it up to the local rent-a-cops who don't do shit except pull people over for going 5 miles over the limit? Let the university meter maids handle it? Wait 14 hours until we can get the experts in and just hope the timer on that bomb doesn't run out? We're more vulnerable now than we ever before.

But people like you have this illusion that the only place terrorists come from is the middle east, and as long as we're fighting them over there, nothing bad will ever happen. But that isn't true, bad people come from all over the world, and some don't come from anywhere and were born and raised here, just like Timothy McVeigh. We can't focus on Iraq, because Iraq isn't the root of terrorism. We're wasting time, money and lives fighting terrorism that we created, when the real key to protection is keeping our protectors close to home, not halfway around the world fighting this unjust war.
Well said, Todd.

[Dart]

Just because a majority of people think that troops should be taken out of Iraq..does not make them right. Opinions matter, but they also don't. If we pull troops out of Iraq at this time right now...we are open to attack all over again. The enemy has not been found..that being the reason why we are still over there. I think that deployment could be handled differently. Troops have been away from family too long...I think they should alternate. But seriously, this gas prices and too many people dying is crap. Even Linkin Park's opinion about the billions of dollars spent on war doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. We HAVE to spend billions for troops to give them supplies they need and to keep them fed. I don't know, honestly I think all politics are stupid to begin with. I was just..saying what I felt, not trying to bash anyone. I think this album will be great though, I can't wait to hear the demos and watch the DVD! :blink:


"if we pull our troops out of iraq we are open to attack all over again.the enemy hasn't been found yet"-wrong...and true..firstly,you are looking in the wrong place...it is afganistan your troops would have to look in...

"We HAVE to spend billions for troops to give them supplies they need and to keep them fed."-you wouldn't have to give them supplies if they were home with their families...

i don't get iraq war supporters...i mean that war is so fucking long that people even forgot why they are there...to find alledged bio weapons and to catch saddam... there are no bio weapons in the first place and you have catched saddam...so what are they still doing there?trying to restore peace?i don't think they are so good at it...and it has been 4 years...osama bin laden is in afganistan...at least you think he is in afghanistan...

[DJRavok]

"if we pull our troops out of iraq we are open to attack all over again.the enemy hasn't been found yet"-wrong...and true..firstly,you are looking in the wrong place...it is afganistan your troops would have to look in...

"We HAVE to spend billions for troops to give them supplies they need and to keep them fed."-you wouldn't have to give them supplies if they were home with their families...

i don't get iraq war supporters...i mean that war is so fucking long that people even forgot why they are there...to find alledged bio weapons and to catch saddam... there are no bio weapons in the first place and you have catched saddam...so what are they still doing there?trying to restore peace?i don't think they are so good at it...and it has been 4 years...osama bin laden is in afganistan...at least you think he is in afghanistan... Then you are saying we don't need a military? I am not supporting the war itself, but I think it would be a bad idea to pull troops out so suddenly. It's all about planning and obviously, all of the people complaining are not THE PRESIDENT. They don't know how to handle all of this, nor do I. As far as the college attack, what the hell is a military personnel going to do with determining anthrax? They signed up to fight, not be scientists. The fact that Osama Bin Laden is not KNOWN to be dead is causing this too. We have been attacked so many times before from him, I think it's time he is found. I never found violence as an answer but unfortunately, the government does. It is the people that decide for our government to be the way it is, not Bush. If we REALLY cared so much about it, we could overpower the government, and that is not made up..that is FACT. War will never end and people will never agree. It's how it is and will be until the end. (Unless people do something about it)

[Voltage]

This right here is exactly why George Washington was against political parties

[Dart]

Then you are saying we don't need a military? I am not supporting the war itself, but I think it would be a bad idea to pull troops out so suddenly. It's all about planning and obviously, all of the people complaining are not THE PRESIDENT. They don't know how to handle all of this, nor do I. As far as the college attack, what the hell is a military personnel going to do with determining anthrax? They signed up to fight, not be scientists. The fact that Osama Bin Laden is not KNOWN to be dead is causing this too. We have been attacked so many times before from him, I think it's time he is found. I never found violence as an answer but unfortunately, the government does. It is the people that decide for our government to be the way it is, not Bush. If we REALLY cared so much about it, we could overpower the government, and that is not made up..that is FACT. War will never end and people will never agree. It's how it is and will be until the end. (Unless people do something about it)

i was just saying that you attacked and ocupied the wrong country for no reson...except illegal free oil...everyone knows why bush has sent his troops to iraq...oil,oil and purely oil...no bullshit bioweapons,no saddam no peace mission or threat to america...but that's another story...if he wanted to fight terrorism he would attack the taliban regime...he did,actually,but so shortly that it had no effect...you can't fight terrorists by attacking only one countr...you need an international network of antiterrorist units...something on the basis of interpol,just not for crime but for terrorism...

[Nikki]

This is not a debate about The War! I am lost!

Let's put this back on topic now, kids..

[DJRavok]

i was just saying that you attacked and ocupied the wrong country for no reson...except illegal free oil...everyone knows why bush has sent his troops to iraq...oil,oil and purely oil...no bullshit bioweapons,no saddam no peace mission or threat to america...but that's another story...if he wanted to fight terrorism he would attack the taliban regime...he did,actually,but so shortly that it had no effect...you can't fight terrorists by attacking only one countr...you need an international network of antiterrorist units...something on the basis of interpol,just not for crime but for terrorism... It's not for oil..but it is rather for something else that started long ago. I don't know too much fact on how come it's happening but someone might be able to explain. Something relating to gulf war 1. As far as no threat to America? I believe Osama was mentioned a few times. He is still a great threat. The reason we deployed in the first place was to find him. Looking in Afghanistan shouldn't be our only limits. He "fled"..he could be anywhere. I never said Bush was a perfect person but I am fed up with people blaming him just to blame him. You can't believe "everything" the media tells you. The majority of things blamed on him are not even his fault. I'm done arguing now because the only thing that happens is this goes in a continuing circle until someone just starts flaming..which is where the argument ends..and honestly it shouldn't be that way. Like I said before, we have a choice for our government, if we don't like it let's change it! Farewell.

[Dart]

It's not for oil..but it is rather for something else that started long ago. I don't know too much fact on how come it's happening but someone might be able to explain. Something relating to gulf war 1. As far as no threat to America? I believe Osama was mentioned a few times. He is still a great threat. The reason we deployed in the first place was to find him. Looking in Afghanistan shouldn't be our only limits. He "fled"..he could be anywhere. I never said Bush was a perfect person but I am fed up with people blaming him just to blame him. You can't believe "everything" the media tells you. The majority of things blamed on him are not even his fault. I'm done arguing now because the only thing that happens is this goes in a continuing circle until someone just starts flaming..which is where the argument ends..and honestly it shouldn't be that way. Like I said before, we have a choice for our government, if we don't like it let's change it! Farewell.

it's for oil...believe me...but still,this ain't the topic for that so i'll just stop here

[catfish24]

I agree that we should start heading out of Iraq, but I don't think that troops would neccesarily stop an attack from happening. I mean terrorist are going to do what ever they have to do to accomplish an attack. It's similar to the VT shootings. The guy was so set on shooting people that hardly anything would have been able to stop him.

Also, I think that the FBI, CIA, and other government agenices are the guy's who stop terrorist attacks, not the military. I could understand if the attacks consisted of countries actually coming to the US with millions of people in their military, but other than that, the troops wouldn't really be of much help. I don't think the military would be the ones stopping attacks such as 9/11 from happening, that job would go to the people who investigate such attacks.

Then again, I'm sure any country could decide to bring their military over here and start attacking us meaning we would be in deep trouble. Although that wouldn't be considered a terrorist attack. It would be considered a war.
So in conclusion I can see where you're coming from, but I think if we're purely talking about terrorist attacks, the military wouldn't be of much help.

[Harlz]

Before America gets out of Iraq, the other countries who got dragged in there with them need to be able to leave.

it was nothing to do with Australia, then Bush pulled the whole ANZUS treaty thing on us, and our dipshit of a Prime Minister just does what he says. This whole situation is stupid, the world needs a rival superpower, so that everyone can stop sucking up to America, and theres can be a bit of balance in the world.

[Nikki]

Strike 2, kids.

Next time this is being closed. Can we please stop talking out of our arses now?

[Dart]

what happened to the freedom of speech

[Nikki]

What happened to staying on topic? ;)

[minuteforce]

:rolleyes: it flew south for the winter.


anyway, what's happening in iraq, i'd say, isn't much of a war anymore. it's just ... soldiers being dumped there for no good reason. what are they trying to achieve? and how far have they gotten?