View Full Version : 9/11 Painful Deceptions
Andrea
03-25-2006, 08:37 PM
I was viewing 911truth.org (http://www.911truth.org) and reading various articles about the conspiracy of September 11th and I came across the multimedia section that links to 911busters.com (http://911busters.com/911_new_video_productions/index.html) video section. I watched the video titled "Painful Deceptions" and it provides logical opinions and valid points about what happened that day and how the government is covering it up.
This may be old news and some of the information you've already heard before, but I think it's worth a view.
Please watch.
Opinions? Comments?
The best site for information like this is www.infowars.com
No doubt in my mind that the US government is fully behind it.
Dedicated
03-25-2006, 08:57 PM
I actually found a video yesterday that I started watching about 9/11. It's actually really interesting and gets you thinking.
The link to it is:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=911
And yeah, I'm guessing it's old xD
F-ck Casey
03-25-2006, 09:45 PM
I don't think Bush and his regime were behind 9/11, but I do believe that Bush did try (and was successful) at capitalizing on the tragedy, what with the war in Iraq and capture of Saddam.
MorningGlory1985
03-26-2006, 04:07 AM
I hate Bush as much as anyone and would support formal impeachment charges for misleading the nation on Iraq and the many number of other things his administration has done wrong, but you have to take everything with a grain a salt and review all the evidence after 9/11. Could he of prevented the attacks? Probably, was the government directly responsible for them? Unlikely. I consider myself pretty far leftist, but the majority of the nation wouldn't buy into any theories of 9/11 being planned by the Bush administration, we can't even get him impeached on other grounds.
Are you going to ignore that Al Qaida exists and the evidence of the hijackers? What about Afganistan and the other solid facts.
He has taken advantage of his powers and has used Iraq as a way to pursue his own personal vendetta in that region, but I don't buy into many conspiracy theories. If this kind of hate and energy are put into the 2006 elections and beyond, we won't have to worry about an administration like this next time; and if you don't vote (and are able), your opinion doesn't matter anyway, no matter if you're on the left or right.
Louis
03-26-2006, 06:01 AM
Thank you for showing me that video. That was actually really interesting.
I don't know what to say though. But whoever made that film though must have put a lot of time and effort and I give props to them. That gives me a totally wider perspective of 9/11.
NickelNine
03-26-2006, 07:04 AM
Wow. I never questioned 9/11 before and its been over 4 years. I watched both videos and it made me start to think. I'm not sure how much support this idea has or for how long but I think it's safe to assume that this will gain a lot more support in the future.
Evan™
03-26-2006, 02:57 PM
Dedicated's video was really interesting and disturbing in away...wow...its so...mind thinking....man....
Dedicated's video was really interesting and disturbing in away...wow...its so...mind thinking....man....
The guy did put alot of effort into making his point however compared to the mass amount of information there is regarding cover ups and military opperations involved with 9/11 he mearly hit the tip of the iceburg.
The only thing about September 11th that bothers me is the fact that they claim a Boeing 747 hit the Pentagon when there's absolutely no possible way a Boeing 747 could've made a hole that small. The wings would've done more damage to the outside of the structure than they did. And if the plane went in sideways, then the wings would've gorged the ground and they didn't. That's about the only thing I've got a problem with regarding 9/11. But then again some airplane nut is going to come in here and tell me I'm wrong.
Christopher
03-26-2006, 05:57 PM
The only thing about September 11th that bothers me is the fact that they claim a Boeing 747 hit the Pentagon when there's absolutely no possible way a Boeing 747 could've made a hole that small. The wings would've done more damage to the outside of the structure than they did. And if the plane went in sideways, then the wings would've gorged the ground and they didn't. That's about the only thing I've got a problem with regarding 9/11. But then again some airplane nut is going to come in here and tell me I'm wrong.
I'm not an airplane nut but I watched something on Geographic Channel and well I guess the Pentagon is a really strong building and I doesn't seem logical to me that the plane made hole that small but there was an explanation for that ... like there is to everything.
Dedicated
03-26-2006, 07:24 PM
I'm not an airplane nut but I watched something on Geographic Channel and well I guess the Pentagon is a really strong building and I doesn't seem logical to me that the plane made hole that small but there was an explanation for that ... like there is to everything.
You mean like, 3 planes disappearing completely even though there are definite parts of the planes which would not have 'disintergrated' upon hitting the buildings and could not possibly melted due to the heat of the burning?
Personally, I think the scariest of all the images is the one where you can see a woman peering out of the hole the plane made in the South Tower... At least I think it was the South one, my memory sucks ass.
I think the scariest image is the cloud that looks like a skull.
Dr. Octogonapus
03-27-2006, 02:33 AM
And people don't believe me when I tell them 9/11 was a huge conspiracy...good to know that I'm not the only person with enough knowledge of chemistry to know that there's no possible way fire could have caused the Twin Towers to collapse.
Evan™
03-27-2006, 09:57 AM
yeah, thats really unusual, not to mention they were the first to collaspe due to fire...its too unrealistic
Of course! Santa and the Easter Bunny were fighting over the tooth fairy, and crashed into the pentagon! :O
Of course! Santa and the Easter Bunny were fighting over the tooth fairy, and crashed into the pentagon! :O
That's got to be the most fucking wierd post I've seen on LPA :lol:
So I guess when Al Queda, terrorists that HATE the US claimed to take full responsibility, that was just a typo.
You do know that evidence that proves things other than the fact that the US was behind it mean absolutely nothing. Its all propaganda.
Example - If I make a website, and post information about children joining the HJ in the 40s and how it helped them make friends, and picked out little other things that maybe Hitler did that were good, I could make people believe that it was the US that forced the Jews into concentration camps.
Think about what you're listening to, they're saying that Bush's family is linked to Nazis, and I guess that's enough evidence for some people to believe that the US is behind 911. Remember, people liked the Nazi party before they went crazy. Adolf Hitler was Time's man of the year at one point.
I base my opinions on the facts presented about the events that took place around the time surrounding 9/11, not who Bush's family is associated with. I really wouldn't be surprised if he was somehow linked to Hitler or something but that doesn't influence my opinions on 9/11.
I don't think Bush and his regime were behind 9/11, but I do believe that Bush did try (and was successful) at capitalizing on the tragedy, what with the war in Iraq and capture of Saddam.
Same here.
No offense, but I think some people are just stretching things a little bit with this kind of stuff. Is it impossible? No, of course not. It's a possible event. But it is also a highly improbable event. It's not that I just think people are being silly -- I've seen all the videos, I just don't agree with them. Everyone's entitled to their own beliefs, though. But if you look hard enough for anything like this and you'll find something to back you up somehow.
Can someone please point me towards good hard evidence that the Bush adminstration or the US was behind 9/11. And no posting conspiracy theory movies. Oh wait, you can't. Because the US didn't do it.
Here we go with the "That's what they want you to believe!!!" comments...
I could quite possibly argue that instead of telling me to produce evidence that the US was behind 9/11 you should all produce evidence that it wasn't...however I'm not going to waste my time arguing because half the people here don't even take the opinions of others into consideration.
Hmmm well....
Al Queda took responsibility. Known Al Queda terrorists were seen entering the airport...gah fuck it. I won't even try because you have your head so content on being wrapped around mindless propaganda.
NickelNine
04-11-2006, 06:05 PM
Haha!
Neil, think what you want about the WTC buildings because that is a touchy subject but what do you think happened to the Pentagon? I'm very curious to know.
My other point is, just because someone took responsibility for something doesn't mean they did it. I'm sure you can relate to that in some way with events in your own life.
Hmmm well....
Al Queda took responsibility. Known Al Queda terrorists were seen entering the airport...gah fuck it. I won't even try because you have your head so content on being wrapped around mindless propaganda.
:lol:
There's such a thing as an opinion Neil, how about you go find a dictionary and find out what that means instead of disregarding everyone elses opinions and theories. ;)
I'll remind you that the BBC reported that some of the 'terrorists' that were said to have hijacked the planes are alive and well living in various countries throughout the middle-east. Now correct me if my head's 'so content on being wrapped around mindless propaganda' but wouldn't they be dead if they really hijacked the planes?
Or perhaps they all have evil twins.
Oh right I forgot. Bush just happened to decide that he was going to crash some fucking planes into a building so that he could justify what most people are calling a 'grab for oil' or an 'unjustified war'. Everyone's just so sick of hearing the same old story about what happened, so all of a sudden it's more exciting to believe that the US planned and executed 9/11.
And regarding what the BBC said, they were suspects, not necessarily the people who took the plane and crashed it into the building whilst yelling "JIHAD!".
Unless you forgot, these crazy motherfuckers, Al Queda are the largest and most ruthless terrorist organization in the Middle East.
Unless you forgot, these crazy motherfuckers, Al Queda are the largest and most ruthless terrorist organization in the Middle East.
And? That proves absolutely nothing that they were the cause of it. And despite alot of their actions being horrible and what some would call unjustified you can't call them crazy. They're doing what they do because it's what they feel is right no matter what we think, hell, they probably think the western world are crazy motherfuckers.
Not that I condole any of their actions.
lpboarder
05-02-2006, 03:56 AM
This is absolutely the most hilarious/assinine thread about 9/11 I have read since that day. Sorry to be a jerk but everyone who believes it was a conspiracy take a deep breath and read all these posts again. To sit there and believe, for fact, that the government was behind this slaughter of innocent Americans should sicken me. But because it is so ridiculous, I have to laugh. I'm sorry to offend those of you who have all the hard hitting evidence that it was a cover up but come on, stop drinking the liberal look-aid and wake up. Yes it happened on Bush's watch, but you want to blame someone blame Clinton or the UN, hell even blame that worthless human Jimmy Carter but it is not 100% George Bush's fault.
If you want to really study how this all unfolded, dont go back just 5 years, try 10, 20 or even 60 years ago. All of us, Europe, the former USSR and the US had a hand in creating this scourge of violence and hate. Iraq and Afghanistan were pawns long before the current war. The liberal media machine doesnt want you to think that far back because it erodes their theories. And remember, they are all theories, not fact. If 9/11 is a cover up then I suppose all terrorist related attacks against the US have been cover ups as well, right?
Wake up!
wow that really does make you think about 9/11, it is a very strong argument also.
Evan™
05-04-2006, 12:41 PM
but we'll never really know in the end right? i mean most conspiracy theorists aren't taken seriously but at the same time there is this small possibility that they maybe right because the Government keeps away important evidence etc. away from the public which makes them consider the possibility of a conspiracy in the first place...
This is absolutely the most hilarious/assinine thread about 9/11 I have read since that day. Sorry to be a jerk but everyone who believes it was a conspiracy take a deep breath and read all these posts again. To sit there and believe, for fact, that the government was behind this slaughter of innocent Americans should sicken me. But because it is so ridiculous, I have to laugh. I'm sorry to offend those of you who have all the hard hitting evidence that it was a cover up but come on, stop drinking the liberal look-aid and wake up. Yes it happened on Bush's watch, but you want to blame someone blame Clinton or the UN, hell even blame that worthless human Jimmy Carter but it is not 100% George Bush's fault.
If you want to really study how this all unfolded, dont go back just 5 years, try 10, 20 or even 60 years ago. All of us, Europe, the former USSR and the US had a hand in creating this scourge of violence and hate. Iraq and Afghanistan were pawns long before the current war. The liberal media machine doesnt want you to think that far back because it erodes their theories. And remember, they are all theories, not fact. If 9/11 is a cover up then I suppose all terrorist related attacks against the US have been cover ups as well, right?
Wake up!
So you arrive at LPA and immeadiatly insult people's intelligence...well done.
I blame Bush, whether or not Al Quaeda carried out the attacks or not. Intelligence received by the dumbass in August showed that terrorists were going to hijack planes and what not. BUSH IGNORED THOSE WARNINGS AND LET 9/11 HAPPEN! Maybe the entire thing was a conspiracy, maybe it wasn't. Either way, Bush knew about it and let it happen, and I place 100% of the blame on him regardless.
rosanna
05-04-2006, 09:39 PM
AND everyone should have known when they tried to blow up the world trade center the first time and it didn't work out that they would try again.
Evan™
05-05-2006, 03:08 PM
I blame Bush, whether or not Al Quaeda carried out the attacks or not. Intelligence received by the dumbass in August showed that terrorists were going to hijack planes and what not. BUSH IGNORED THOSE WARNINGS AND LET 9/11 HAPPEN! Maybe the entire thing was a conspiracy, maybe it wasn't. Either way, Bush knew about it and let it happen, and I place 100% of the blame on him regardless.
amen to that
nice one million posts btw...
rosanna
05-05-2006, 04:10 PM
i don't think it was a conspiracy, but i do think that if the government was paying more attention to bin laden and al quaeda we would hav been more prepared for this. it has almost happened before, and i don't understand why they just let it go. maybe because the plan didn't work and nowhere near as many people died? i don't know. but they should have realized then that this would happen again.
lpboarder
05-07-2006, 05:12 AM
So you arrive at LPA and immeadiatly insult people's intelligence...well done.
I'm entitled to my opinion like anyone else. Maybe I felt insulted with all the far fetched theories and conspiracies that are being brought up. If I remember correctly, people did die and lives were changed forever. Trying to blame it on Bush only is ridiculous.
Theazninvasion68
05-07-2006, 05:24 AM
I'm entitled to my opinion like anyone else. Maybe I felt insulted with all the far fetched theories and conspiracies that are being brought up. If I remember correctly, people did die and lives were changed forever. Trying to blame it on Bush only is ridiculous.
Not everoyne is entittled to speak there side.
(luckly, it is here ^_^)
anyway, whats your side?
I'm entitled to my opinion like anyone else. Maybe I felt insulted with all the far fetched theories and conspiracies that are being brought up. If I remember correctly, people did die and lives were changed forever. Trying to blame it on Bush only is ridiculous.
So you dont think Bush should be blamed at all when he completely ignored warnings about terrorists planning to hijack planes?
I'm entitled to my opinion like anyone else. Maybe I felt insulted with all the far fetched theories and conspiracies that are being brought up. If I remember correctly, people did die and lives were changed forever. Trying to blame it on Bush only is ridiculous.
I'm not saying you're not entitled to an opinion however I felt that your attitude of joining on LPA and then basicly say that other people's opinions are wrong was bad. It's obvious to me that your ignorant on the the topic because you have yet to state a valuable fact in your argument and instead just insult people's intelligence.
So you dont think Bush should be blamed at all when he completely ignored warnings about terrorists planning to hijack planes?
Todd is right, every way you look at it Bush IS responsable in some way.
Bush ignored warnings about when those planes were hijacked, end result was many people died because he ignored warnings, seems to be his fault to me.
lpboarder
05-12-2006, 03:42 AM
So you dont think Bush should be blamed at all when he completely ignored warnings about terrorists planning to hijack planes?
Sure he should have some blame, but all of it, no. Had our intelligence community worked together it could have been prevented. None of us really know who knew what and when. Bush was not in a winning position because no matter what he did or didnt do, he was criticized. If he had ordered extra security checks for Arab or Muslim looking people at the airport, he could have prevented it but.....he would labeled a racist. And people would be calling it a conspiracy against Islam instead of a conspiracy against the real enemy....Islamofacists! It doesnt matter what he does, Bush will always be labeled something bad in the eyes of liberal thinking people.
lpboarder
05-12-2006, 04:00 AM
I'm not saying you're not entitled to an opinion however I felt that your attitude of joining on LPA and then basicly say that other people's opinions are wrong was bad. It's obvious to me that your ignorant on the the topic because you have yet to state a valuable fact in your argument and instead just insult people's intelligence.
Todd is right, every way you look at it Bush IS responsable in some way.
1979
Nov. 4, Tehran, Iran: Iranian radical students seized the U.S. embassy, taking 66 hostages. 14 were later released. The remaining 52 were freed after 444 days on the day of President Reagan's inauguration.
1982–1991
Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.
1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 Marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html
These are facts, no? Undisputed evidence of terrorist aggression towards the US. The only connection between these facts and others' "theories" is that they are both on the Internet. And that is where it stops.
If the 9/11 disaster should be blamed on anyone, it should be blamed on Clinton's administration. What did he do after the first WTC bombing? Nothing. Did he really think OBL would just give up and not try again? After the USS Cole bombing? Nothing (he was leaving office, why bother at that point). Oh yes, after the twin bombings of the African embassies he did tomahawk an aspirin factory in Sudan and a few tents in Afghanistan (during his impeachment no less). That showed them not to mess with us! These are facts but because it was before Bush.....some people seem to forget, I did not.
Okay, now that I have cured everyone's pre-9/11 amnesia, educate me how Bush is soley responsible for 9/11.
Evan™
05-12-2006, 09:25 AM
Bush is responsible because he had warnings and as you showed us yourself that even a US destroyer got hit! but what does Bush do to try and protect the States? Nothing! Thats why he is responsible...
Christopher
05-12-2006, 12:08 PM
Bush is responsible because he had warnings and as you showed us yourself that even a US destroyer got hit! but what does Bush do to try and protect the States? Nothing! Thats why he is responsible...
Yeah, ofcourse he's responsible. He's a president ... he'll always be to blame even if he has nothing to do with it. It's his country he should do everything he can to protect it, which he didn't at all.
lpboarder
05-13-2006, 04:05 AM
Bush is responsible because he had warnings and as you showed us yourself that even a US destroyer got hit! but what does Bush do to try and protect the States? Nothing! Thats why he is responsible...
That particular incident (USS Cole bombing) was a direct a result of our own trusting of locals during port visits or refuel stops. I know this because I am ex-Navy and now there are steps taken so boats cannot approach US warships unmolested. Sad but true.
Let me do some quick math for you though....Clinton had how many bombings versus US targets during his Presidency? 5 is the number you are looking for....including one on US soil! As I stated before you cannot blame it soley on Bush, your favorite draft dodging, pot smoking, hillbilly of a Prez is just as responsible. If you cannot admit that much then you have no leg to stand on for this subject. :wave:
Theazninvasion68
05-13-2006, 04:54 AM
That particular incident (USS Cole bombing) was a direct a result of our own trusting of locals during port visits or refuel stops. I know this because I am ex-Navy and now there are steps taken so boats cannot approach US warships unmolested. Sad but true.
Let me do some quick math for you though....Clinton had how many bombings versus US targets during his Presidency? 5 is the number you are looking for....including one on US soil! As I stated before you cannot blame it soley on Bush, your favorite draft dodging, pot smoking, hillbilly of a Prez is just as responsible. If you cannot admit that much then you have no leg to stand on for this subject. :wave:
It's bush's and....
....well, who else do you say?
lpboarder
05-13-2006, 10:57 PM
It's bush's and....
....well, who else do you say?
Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, the French govt and anyone who thinks terrorism isnt evil.
Linja
05-14-2006, 08:31 AM
The French government?
If he had ordered extra security checks for Arab or Muslim looking people at the airport
It sounds to me like you think that most arabs are dangerous.
You know, I am muslim and I would be extremely offended if I were pulled aside by airport security because I looked muslim. Yeah, so what if someone wears an abaya or dishdasha?
lpboarder
05-14-2006, 09:17 AM
The French government?
It sounds to me like you think that most arabs are dangerous.
You know, I am muslim and I would be extremely offended if I were pulled aside by airport security because I looked muslim. Yeah, so what if someone wears an abaya or dishdasha?
I dont think most Arabs are dangerous but I do know it was a group of Muslim extremists who hijacked and crashed 4 planes on 9/11. This country is too PC and instead of looking at the obvious we decide to check everyone, including children and grandmas in wheelchairs. I feel so much safer that old ladies are searched, dont you? You feel offended, how about everyone non-Muslim or non-Arab? What group of people have been bombing US targets for 3 decades now? Maybe it is too simple, but screening everyone only delays the inevitable of a bigger act being carried out. The problem with this procedure is it only prevents people from feeling profiled instead of focusing on the bigger picture, something worse than 9/11.
Linja
05-14-2006, 09:36 AM
I am not offended right now. I would feel offended if I were pulled aside on the basis of my looks.
Would you mind explaining what you meant by the french government or were you just giving examples?
Evan™
05-14-2006, 03:00 PM
i agree with mali, i would be bloody pissed if someone pulled me aside just becasue i look asian, and just because it happens to be middle-eastern peopl who have been bombing the US, it is still unfair that they are the only ones pulled aside
lpboarder
05-15-2006, 12:56 AM
I am not offended right now. I would feel offended if I were pulled aside on the basis of my looks.
Would you mind explaining what you meant by the french government or were you just giving examples?
It was an example but I have a reason or two for it. One, they sell most, if not all, of their missile, radar and jet technology to the Middle East (Same could be said of China too, i.e. silkworm missiles). And second, they just seem to oppose us at every turn when it comes to foreign policy in the Middle East. But as we have seen during the last year, the policy of appeasing the Arab immigrants in their own country has backfired on the French. This should be a warning flag about the immigration problem in this country but that is a subject for a different thread.
In addition, I believe they opposed the sanctions against Iraq following the first Gulf War and were caught up in the "Oil-for-food" scandal during said sanctions. Personally, they dont even deserve to be on the UN Security Council as a permanent member. And lest I forget, they wouldnt allow our jets to fly over France during the bombing of Libya back in 1986.
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