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The Outsider
08-15-2005, 07:03 AM
Do u think its fair that the catholic church recognises suicide as a mortal sin?

I dont..
arT saveS
08-15-2005, 05:08 PM
If I understand right, the Catholic church recognizes anything, besides praying, a mortal sin.

I love A Perfect Circle by the way.
Danielle
08-15-2005, 07:49 PM
It can't really be unfair because its their opinion and just because you don't like it doesn't mean its wrong.
Chris(tmas)
08-15-2005, 08:42 PM
I dont know if the word "fair" can be used here.
Glenn
08-15-2005, 10:12 PM
This is a strange question because people can't go to the corpse and go "shame on you." It doesn't work.
The Outsider
08-16-2005, 05:07 AM
it shouldnt be considered a mortal sin because its of free will....is that a sin ? free will? personal choice?
Link04
08-16-2005, 09:38 PM
Well, with an "all knowing god", free will doesn't logically exist anyhow.

If god knows literally everything, present, past, and future, we can't have free will. If he knows what I had for breakfast this morning, what I'm thinking at this instant, and when I'm going to buy my next pair of shoes, then I don't have any will to change HIS will. It may seem like I have an option, like a red or blue shirt the next day, but if god already KNOWS what I'm going to choose, does that mean I literally have a choice? No, it doesn't, it means that I'm adhering to a figurative script, something that he already is 100% certain will occur. If I were to somehow do something he hadn't known would happen, he wouldn't have perfect knowledge, and if he did know, I have no free will.
Seb
08-16-2005, 11:29 PM
Did you know that if you're Catholic and you commit suicide, you can't have a Catholic burial? Such bullshit. I'm not planning on converting (I'm Catholic) but I wish the Catholic church would become more liberal. The church doesn't even allow priests to marry.

Btw A Perfect Circle is kickass. My second favorite band (right behind LP)
I Don't Need No Accuser
08-17-2005, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Link04@Aug 16 2005, 09:38 PM
Well, with an "all knowing god", free will doesn't logically exist anyhow.

If god knows literally everything, present, past, and future, we can't have free will. If he knows what I had for breakfast this morning, what I'm thinking at this instant, and when I'm going to buy my next pair of shoes, then I don't have any will to change HIS will. It may seem like I have an option, like a red or blue shirt the next day, but if god already KNOWS what I'm going to choose, does that mean I literally have a choice? No, it doesn't, it means that I'm adhering to a figurative script, something that he already is 100% certain will occur. If I were to somehow do something he hadn't known would happen, he wouldn't have perfect knowledge, and if he did know, I have no free will.
Logic traps are silly.

Just because he knows what's going to happen, doesn't mean he's choosing for you or choosing it. He knows what you're going to do, but that doesn't mean he's choosing it for you.
bennylp
08-17-2005, 04:01 AM
anything that breaks the ten rules, or commandtents or wateva they are is a sin. but as if i'd break the sunday holy day thing

all i do on sunday is sleep, and play ps2 ;) :teehee:
The Outsider
08-17-2005, 05:15 AM
cos im atheist anyone else here?
Weezy
08-17-2005, 06:17 AM
Like arT saveS said, the Catholic church seems to deem almost everything as a sin.

and Outsider, I'm an atheist. :)
Omar A
08-17-2005, 07:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
sariia
08-17-2005, 02:33 PM
I support the catholic church on that aspect. If you believe in life after death than there's no point in commiting suicide. If you commit suicide it's like running away from your problems instead of facing them and perhaps even solving them. Killing yourself won't make the situation better.

Ok, if you didn't get what I was saying just watch the movie "What Dreams may come". It's really good and taught me alot.
Holiday
08-17-2005, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by arT saveS@Aug 15 2005, 10:08 AM
If I understand right, the Catholic church recognizes anything, besides praying, a mortal sin.

I love A Perfect Circle by the way.
:lol:

you're great.
palingenesis
08-17-2005, 08:39 PM
it is a way of life, a very committed one in fact and that i respect. all their views and beliefs i may disagree with sometimes but i still respect them and sometimes them admire them.
Link04
08-17-2005, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser+Aug 17 2005, 02:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser @ Aug 17 2005, 02:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Aug 16 2005, 09:38 PM
Well, with an "all knowing god", free will doesn&#39;t logically exist anyhow.

If god knows literally everything, present, past, and future, we can&#39;t have free will. If he knows what I had for breakfast this morning, what I&#39;m thinking at this instant, and when I&#39;m going to buy my next pair of shoes, then I don&#39;t have any will to change HIS will. It may seem like I have an option, like a red or blue shirt the next day, but if god already KNOWS what I&#39;m going to choose, does that mean I literally have a choice? No, it doesn&#39;t, it means that I&#39;m adhering to a figurative script, something that he already is 100% certain will occur. If I were to somehow do something he hadn&#39;t known would happen, he wouldn&#39;t have perfect knowledge, and if he did know, I have no free will.
Logic traps are silly.

Just because he knows what&#39;s going to happen, doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s choosing for you or choosing it. He knows what you&#39;re going to do, but that doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s choosing it for you. [/b][/quote]
He doesn&#39;t have to choose, it&#39;s already done&#33; And you&#39;re left with a pitiful illusion of choice, that&#39;s already pre-determined. At the instant he created the universe, with his boundless knowledge, he made every choice you "thought" you made (and will make) for you.
I Don't Need No Accuser
08-18-2005, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Link04+Aug 17 2005, 11:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Aug 17 2005, 11:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser@Aug 17 2005, 02:49 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Aug 16 2005, 09:38 PM
Well, with an "all knowing god", free will doesn&#39;t logically exist anyhow.

If god knows literally everything, present, past, and future, we can&#39;t have free will. If he knows what I had for breakfast this morning, what I&#39;m thinking at this instant, and when I&#39;m going to buy my next pair of shoes, then I don&#39;t have any will to change HIS will. It may seem like I have an option, like a red or blue shirt the next day, but if god already KNOWS what I&#39;m going to choose, does that mean I literally have a choice? No, it doesn&#39;t, it means that I&#39;m adhering to a figurative script, something that he already is 100% certain will occur. If I were to somehow do something he hadn&#39;t known would happen, he wouldn&#39;t have perfect knowledge, and if he did know, I have no free will.
Logic traps are silly.

Just because he knows what&#39;s going to happen, doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s choosing for you or choosing it. He knows what you&#39;re going to do, but that doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s choosing it for you.
He doesn&#39;t have to choose, it&#39;s already done&#33; And you&#39;re left with a pitiful illusion of choice, that&#39;s already pre-determined. At the instant he created the universe, with his boundless knowledge, he made every choice you "thought" you made (and will make) for you. [/b][/quote]
Because it&#39;s already &#39;&#39;done&#39;&#39; doesn&#39;t mean you don&#39;t make that decision is the point I&#39;m trying to get across. Your original post was about god knowing what you&#39;re going to do. And in your mind that means that it&#39;s already pre-determined what you&#39;re going to do, and yea in a way it is. But I&#39;m saying that just because he knows, doesn&#39;t mean that he&#39;s made the decision or that you didnt make the decision. He just knows already what you&#39;re going to do ahead of time.
Link04
08-18-2005, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser+Aug 18 2005, 12:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser @ Aug 18 2005, 12:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Link04@Aug 17 2005, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by -I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser@Aug 17 2005, 02:49 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Aug 16 2005, 09:38 PM
Well, with an "all knowing god", free will doesn&#39;t logically exist anyhow.

If god knows literally everything, present, past, and future, we can&#39;t have free will. If he knows what I had for breakfast this morning, what I&#39;m thinking at this instant, and when I&#39;m going to buy my next pair of shoes, then I don&#39;t have any will to change HIS will. It may seem like I have an option, like a red or blue shirt the next day, but if god already KNOWS what I&#39;m going to choose, does that mean I literally have a choice? No, it doesn&#39;t, it means that I&#39;m adhering to a figurative script, something that he already is 100% certain will occur. If I were to somehow do something he hadn&#39;t known would happen, he wouldn&#39;t have perfect knowledge, and if he did know, I have no free will.
Logic traps are silly.

Just because he knows what&#39;s going to happen, doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s choosing for you or choosing it. He knows what you&#39;re going to do, but that doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s choosing it for you.
He doesn&#39;t have to choose, it&#39;s already done&#33; And you&#39;re left with a pitiful illusion of choice, that&#39;s already pre-determined. At the instant he created the universe, with his boundless knowledge, he made every choice you "thought" you made (and will make) for you.
Because it&#39;s already &#39;&#39;done&#39;&#39; doesn&#39;t mean you don&#39;t make that decision is the point I&#39;m trying to get across. Your original post was about god knowing what you&#39;re going to do. And in your mind that means that it&#39;s already pre-determined what you&#39;re going to do, and yea in a way it is. But I&#39;m saying that just because he knows, doesn&#39;t mean that he&#39;s made the decision or that you didnt make the decision. He just knows already what you&#39;re going to do ahead of time. [/b][/quote]
Is there a difference? I don&#39;t think you&#39;re fully seeing the implication of "perfect knowledge."

If you&#39;re at a fork in the road, the "choice", quotes because the term is incorrect, is already decided. There is, in actuality, no choice to be made. You may be presented with an illusion of a choice, but, again, at the instant God snapped his fingers and created the universe, he knew in his absolute knowledge that when you reached this fork, you would go left. It&#39;s done, right there, the act WILL happen. If it didn&#39;t, God wouldn&#39;t be perfect. There is no decision for you to make&#33; You think there is of course, and you ponder long and hard. But it&#39;s already been made in a script that is just being played out.

If there&#39;s anything I can do to make this more clear to you, tell me. There is no real "choice" involved because you, in reality, according to this script, have no other option BUT to go the way that is written.
+ / –
08-18-2005, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 01:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
Since people decided to recognize free will.

But the United States has been low on free will, so I see why a lot of people don&#39;t like suicide.
Omar A
08-18-2005, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Minus Xero+Aug 17 2005, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Minus Xero @ Aug 17 2005, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 01:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
Since people decided to recognize free will.

But the United States has been low on free will, so I see why a lot of people don&#39;t like suicide. [/b][/quote]
wow this is like saying "its a free will to go out and kill someone" :rolleyes:
Tom
08-18-2005, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by arT saveS@Aug 15 2005, 05:08 PM
If I understand right, the Catholic church recognizes anything, besides praying, a mortal sin.
:lol: yeah one of my friends is catholic and just about everything i do he says
&#39;&#39; Tom why do you sin so much&#39;&#39; dav
&#39;&#39; wtf but i didn&#39;t&#39;&#39; - Me
&#39;&#39;there you go again *shakes head*&#39;&#39; Dav
&#39;&#39;*sigh*&#39;&#39; Me

anyhow , i don&#39;t belive it is.
Link04
08-18-2005, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Omar A+Aug 18 2005, 07:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Omar A @ Aug 18 2005, 07:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Minus Xero@Aug 17 2005, 10:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 01:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
Since people decided to recognize free will.

But the United States has been low on free will, so I see why a lot of people don&#39;t like suicide.
wow this is like saying "its a free will to go out and kill someone" :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
Not really.

I&#39;m the only one that owns myself. I own myself wholly, no questions asked. Why should anyone try to restrict me from ending myself, if I see it fit? It&#39;s not like I&#39;m killing something that doesn&#39;t belong to me (anyone else).
+ / –
08-18-2005, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Omar A+Aug 18 2005, 01:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Omar A @ Aug 18 2005, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Minus Xero@Aug 17 2005, 10:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 01:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
Since people decided to recognize free will.

But the United States has been low on free will, so I see why a lot of people don&#39;t like suicide.
wow this is like saying "its a free will to go out and kill someone" :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
We&#39;re talking about ending yourself, not other lives.
The Outsider
08-19-2005, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 07:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
well im saying suicide shouldnt be recognised as a mortal sin, because then u would be saying depression would be a sin.
I Don't Need No Accuser
08-19-2005, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by The Outsider+Aug 19 2005, 05:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Outsider @ Aug 19 2005, 05:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 07:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
well im saying suicide shouldnt be recognised as a mortal sin, because then u would be saying depression would be a sin. [/b][/quote]
How would that make depression a sin? Being depressed isn&#39;t an excuse to kill yourself. Everyone gets depressed at some point in their lives.

And Minus:

Omar said it&#39;s &#39;&#39;like&#39;&#39; killing other people. And I agree with him. If you think that suicide not being accepted is because the U.S. is &#39;&#39;low&#39;&#39; on free will, that&#39;s ridiculous. Who would ever let some one they know kill themselves?
The Outsider
08-19-2005, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser+Aug 19 2005, 05:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser @ Aug 19 2005, 05:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -The Outsider@Aug 19 2005, 05:20 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 07:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
well im saying suicide shouldnt be recognised as a mortal sin, because then u would be saying depression would be a sin.
How would that make depression a sin? Being depressed isn&#39;t an excuse to kill yourself. Everyone gets depressed at some point in their lives.

And Minus:

Omar said it&#39;s &#39;&#39;like&#39;&#39; killing other people. And I agree with him. If you think that suicide not being accepted is because the U.S. is &#39;&#39;low&#39;&#39; on free will, that&#39;s ridiculous. Who would ever let some one they know kill themselves? [/b][/quote]
well depression is a cause of suicide.
Omar A
08-19-2005, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by The Outsider+Aug 19 2005, 12:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Outsider @ Aug 19 2005, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 07:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
well im saying suicide shouldnt be recognised as a mortal sin, because then u would be saying depression would be a sin. [/b][/quote]
Religion doesn&#39;t have lawyers who just sit in a room and make up laws.
Link04
08-19-2005, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by The Outsider+Aug 19 2005, 05:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Outsider @ Aug 19 2005, 05:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser@Aug 19 2005, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by -The Outsider@Aug 19 2005, 05:20 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 07:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
well im saying suicide shouldnt be recognised as a mortal sin, because then u would be saying depression would be a sin.
How would that make depression a sin? Being depressed isn&#39;t an excuse to kill yourself. Everyone gets depressed at some point in their lives.

And Minus:

Omar said it&#39;s &#39;&#39;like&#39;&#39; killing other people. And I agree with him. If you think that suicide not being accepted is because the U.S. is &#39;&#39;low&#39;&#39; on free will, that&#39;s ridiculous. Who would ever let some one they know kill themselves?
well depression is a cause of suicide. [/b][/quote]
I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser: That&#39;s completely true, but in the end, it&#39;s their body, it&#39;s their decision. It may be an utter shame, and a horrible thing in your mind, which it is, but we can display that opinion by simply not killing ourselves. I know it&#39;s rough, I&#39;ve talked people down from suicide before, but the one thing I always tell them is that they&#39;re in the drivers seat. Ultimately, it&#39;s their choice.

Outsider: But depression itself is NOT suicide. They&#39;re two different things. And, I think the point he&#39;s trying to make, people don&#39;t choose to suffer from depression.
iamrighthereandnow
08-19-2005, 05:15 PM
Is priest God to know what a mortal sin is? in science you have to back up your claims. how does a priest back up that he knows the will of God?

So who says suicide is mortal sin? God? Catholic Church is the Church of Christ right.... Christ is said to have said that God is Love. how can all loving, omniscient being demand guilt? makes no sence.

by making people guilty, you get them on their knees and therefore you get away with becoming the biggest property owner on the earth and have immesuarable amounts of health while those whom you subject to beating themselves alive for sins live in poverty. that to me is more sinful then terminating one&#39;s life.

terminating one&#39;s life is between one&#39;s own conscience, not between church or anybody proclaiming it sinful.
The Outsider
08-20-2005, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Link04+Aug 19 2005, 02:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Aug 19 2005, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -The Outsider@Aug 19 2005, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by -I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser@Aug 19 2005, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by -The Outsider@Aug 19 2005, 05:20 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Omar A@Aug 17 2005, 07:13 AM
WTF? since when did people start to defend suicide?
well im saying suicide shouldnt be recognised as a mortal sin, because then u would be saying depression would be a sin.
How would that make depression a sin? Being depressed isn&#39;t an excuse to kill yourself. Everyone gets depressed at some point in their lives.

And Minus:

Omar said it&#39;s &#39;&#39;like&#39;&#39; killing other people. And I agree with him. If you think that suicide not being accepted is because the U.S. is &#39;&#39;low&#39;&#39; on free will, that&#39;s ridiculous. Who would ever let some one they know kill themselves?
well depression is a cause of suicide.
I Don&#39;t Need No Accuser: That&#39;s completely true, but in the end, it&#39;s their body, it&#39;s their decision. It may be an utter shame, and a horrible thing in your mind, which it is, but we can display that opinion by simply not killing ourselves. I know it&#39;s rough, I&#39;ve talked people down from suicide before, but the one thing I always tell them is that they&#39;re in the drivers seat. Ultimately, it&#39;s their choice.

Outsider: But depression itself is NOT suicide. They&#39;re two different things. And, I think the point he&#39;s trying to make, people don&#39;t choose to suffer from depression. [/b][/quote]
okay, but in most cases depression in extreme cases suicide is an outcome.
if u were a catholic and the church declared a loved one of urs as death of suicide and didnt give that friend a proper funeral wouldnt u be angry (if r religious..or if ur not..just imagine it)
Link04
08-20-2005, 04:00 PM
Is it? Do you have any sort of reference or percentage?
The Outsider
08-21-2005, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by Link04@Aug 20 2005, 04:00 PM
Is it? Do you have any sort of reference or percentage?
its a well known fact.
i&#39;ve experienced suicide of friends myself cos of depression and that really hurts, seeing not them being buried the way they wanted cos they committed suicide.
imagine it...everyone...
I Don't Need No Accuser
08-21-2005, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by The Outsider+Aug 21 2005, 05:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Outsider @ Aug 21 2005, 05:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Aug 20 2005, 04:00 PM
Is it? Do you have any sort of reference or percentage?
its a well known fact.
i&#39;ve experienced suicide of friends myself cos of depression and that really hurts, seeing not them being buried the way they wanted cos they committed suicide.
imagine it...everyone... [/b][/quote]
If they committed suicide and that&#39;s not the way they wanted to be buried...then why did they do it?
iamrighthereandnow
08-21-2005, 09:20 AM
possibly because if you are so desperate as to kill yourself, the last thought you&#39;re gonna give is to how to be burried. its hard to be practical- go to the church, get oneself of their believers list whatever, go to the solicitors and make will, whatever way you wanna be dealt with after death and its in a will, YOUR WILL HAS TO BE DONE. but as i said if you are about to kill yourself, you may not operate in practical terms.
I Don't Need No Accuser
08-21-2005, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by iamrighthereandnow@Aug 21 2005, 09:20 AM
possibly because if you are so desperate as to kill yourself, the last thought you&#39;re gonna give is to how to be burried. its hard to be practical- go to the church, get oneself of their believers list whatever, go to the solicitors and make will, whatever way you wanna be dealt with after death and its in a will, YOUR WILL HAS TO BE DONE. but as i said if you are about to kill yourself, you may not operate in practical terms.
Okay, I really don&#39;t think anyone has a preferred way to be buried. :lol:

But to me...killing yourself is just not worth it. We live in a world where almost anyone can make something of themselves.

Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people ages 15 to 24. In 2001, 3,971 suicides were reported in this group (Anderson and Smith 2003).

Most of those kids are feeling things they haven&#39;t felt before. And they don&#39;t know how to deal with them. So they think in the moment, and think suicide is the only option. That&#39;s my only problem. That they don&#39;t realize that &#39;&#39;high school is not who you are for the rest of your life.&#39;&#39;
iamrighthereandnow
08-21-2005, 06:29 PM
Okay, I really don&#39;t think anyone has a preferred way to be buried.

you&#39;d be suprised, as people get older they do start considering the options, does one want to donate organs, does one want to be burried, or cremated or thrown into sea?

We live in a world where almost anyone can make something of themselves.

are you talking about the famous american dream? as it says its a dream, its a dream of winners and loosers and it sucks. that&#39;s why its called american dream and not american reality. go say that to the people in the ghetto, say that to chicano and asians, say that to the people on who are discriminated agaisnt.. if you&#39;re privilidged and have no clue of poverty and the system that feeds of the poor and the way it operates to keep the rich richer and the poor poorer, then which planet are we talking about? I]We live in a world where almost anyone can make something of themselves.[/I] this is not Earth. this is elitist and middle class, privilidged lie to the poor masses to keep them opiated with delusions so they don&#39;t rise up.

its got to do more then high school problems. it&#39;s a loss of identity in a world that dictates your role within it or simply not belonging or alienation or living a lie. not all people can sedate themselves with the world of consumerism, television, sex and vast amount of drugs and alcohol pumped to numb our pain of living in society based on deceit, profit of stolen labor of the working class by the elites and mass slaughter of the people your government proclaims &#39;the enemy&#39; because the war machine makes the rich people richer. military spending is what got america thru the great depression and now usa faces economic crises, same tricks are pulled yet again and the vast exploitation of third world countries, where your Nike mistreats the workers confining them to sick working conditions and your Coca Cola murdering trade union leaders in Colombia. people know more about lives of fictional characters in televisions then dare to care what&#39;s going thru the emotions of the kid next door. we are displaced, homeless, exploited, alienated from each other, made to live pointless life so the rich can be the vampiric vultures they are and told we are worthless and thought how to hate ourselves and each other. some people can&#39;t take it, some people choose drastic measures. and untill the world changes, that will be the reality.

if you don&#39;t want them to do it, then don&#39;t just sit there, get on the streets, get informed what goes on in the world you live in, not on television and the official media that broadcast lies after lies after lies. go look out for the truth, go and join the fight for freedom so the world we live in is the world people have their place, their honor and when human beings can co- operate with each other rather then compete.
Link04
08-21-2005, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by The Outsider+Aug 21 2005, 05:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Outsider @ Aug 21 2005, 05:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Aug 20 2005, 04:00 PM
Is it? Do you have any sort of reference or percentage?
its a well known fact.
i&#39;ve experienced suicide of friends myself cos of depression and that really hurts, seeing not them being buried the way they wanted cos they committed suicide.
imagine it...everyone... [/b][/quote]
I know that depression can lead to suicide, but I was asking how many depressed persons commited suicide? Do you have any proof or any data?
The Outsider
08-22-2005, 05:42 AM
i dont have the statistics on me right now but its a well known fact.