Music and Labels: A Mini-Rant.

[User Name]

Originally posted by SolXfyR@Jul 10 2005, 06:55 PM
That's a good Christian rock mini-compilation. Nicely done.
To call bands like Project 86, blindside, and Anberlin 'Christian rock', not only are you putting them in a box, but you're also applying a religion to music. Music is not human; it cannot hold a faith. Think of how ridiculous it would sound if someone said that the note, B flat, was Muslim.

A faith can have an influence in what you write, but do you ever see it jump and down and say "Hey look! I'm Christian!"? Let me just put it this way: You'd have a better chance at winning the lottery than to see that happen.

In fact, the whole idea of genres is completely absurd. Putting a name on a band just makes them seem so one-dimensional, you know? What do you guys think?

[Doctor Manhattan]

Originally posted by Cameron+Jul 10 2005, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cameron @ Jul 10 2005, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SolXfyR@Jul 10 2005, 06:55 PM
That's a good Christian rock mini-compilation. Nicely done.
To call bands like Project 86, blindside, and Anberlin 'Christian rock', not only are you putting them in a box, but you're also applying a religion to music. Music is not human; it cannot hold a faith. Think of how ridiculous it would sound if someone said that the note, B flat, was Muslim.

A faith can have an influence in what you write, but do you ever see it jump and down and say "Hey look! I'm Christian!"? Let me just put it this way: You'd have a better chance at winning the lottery than to see that happen. [/b][/quote]
What about gospel music?

[User Name]

Falls under the same category. It's spiritually influenced.

[Minus Xero]

Originally posted by Vismund Cygnus+Jul 10 2005, 09:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vismund Cygnus @ Jul 10 2005, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Cameron@Jul 10 2005, 10:01 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SolXfyR@Jul 10 2005, 06:55 PM
That's a good Christian rock mini-compilation. Nicely done.
To call bands like Project 86, blindside, and Anberlin 'Christian rock', not only are you putting them in a box, but you're also applying a religion to music. Music is not human; it cannot hold a faith. Think of how ridiculous it would sound if someone said that the note, B flat, was Muslim.

A faith can have an influence in what you write, but do you ever see it jump and down and say "Hey look! I'm Christian!"? Let me just put it this way: You'd have a better chance at winning the lottery than to see that happen.
What about gospel music? [/b][/quote]
I was about to comment about genres and how the whole aspect is ridiculous, but Casey's offcomment just shot this mini-rant to shit (the whole religious aspect, at least).

EDIT: Gospel music is all about praising God, from what I know. "Praise the Lord" and all that jazz.

Music ABOUT the religion... hmm.

[Doctor Manhattan]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 10 2005, 10:12 PM
Falls under the same category. It's spiritually influenced.
But it doesn't talk about anything else but religion. Yeah it does play a role in the music, but religion is practically the music to that genre.

[Atsuzen]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 11 2005, 11:01 AM
Think of how ridiculous it would sound if someone said that the note, B flat, was Muslim.

:lol:


I just don't get the idea of how people can label a band under 'Christian Rock'. Yeah, sometimes their song writing do get influenced by their faith/ religion and stuff, but conclude that they're a Christian band?

As for genres, well ... it helps me sort my music better. :whistle:

[Sylar]

I was going to say something but I still don't entirely get what you mean.

When someone calls Project 86 a Christian Band, it isn't necessarily because they're music has Christian beliefs in it but the band follows Christian beliefs.

Other than that...Project 86, Pillar, and Anberlin are all in the Christian section at every FYE I've been to...though I don't understand why.

[Minus Xero]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 10 2005, 09:01 PM
Think of how ridiculous it would sound if someone said that the note, B flat, was Muslim.
Well, to counter-point (not really, but hey), a lot of chord progressions and scales have been associated with ethnicity. Like a lot of Japanese, Chinese, and Southern Asian music are on the same major, minor, etc. scale, and progress the same.

[User Name]

Originally posted by Vismund Cygnus+Jul 10 2005, 08:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vismund Cygnus @ Jul 10 2005, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cameron@Jul 10 2005, 10:12 PM
Falls under the same category. It's spiritually influenced.
But it doesn't talk about anything else but religion. Yeah it does play a role in the music, but religion is practically the music to that genre. [/b][/quote]
So, say that someone talked about Islam for a awhile; explained their beliefs, origins, who their leader was, whatever. Now, replace the whole idea of music in your post with an actual person. Under your logic, that person must be Islamic, but he/she is not. See what I'm trying to get at?

When someone calls Project 86 a Christian Band, it isn't necessarily because they're music has Christian beliefs in it but the band follows Christian beliefs.

Christian's in a band. Believe me, this definition makes a lot more sense.

[Minus Xero]

Originally posted by Cameron+ Jul 11 2005, 02:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cameron @ Jul 11 2005, 02:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>So, say that someone talked about Islam for a awhile; explained their beliefs, origins, who their leader was, whatever. Now, replace the whole idea of music in your post with an actual person. Under your logic, that person must be Islamic, but he/she is not. See what I'm trying to get at? [/b]
Here are some Gospel lyrics for you.

Originally posted by Amazing Grace+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amazing Grace)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>When we've been there ten thousand years,
bright shining as the sun,
we've no less days to sing God's praise
than when we first begun. [/b]

<!--QuoteBegin--Have Thine Own Way@ Lord
Have thine own way, Lord! Have thine own way!
Thou art the potter, I am the clay.
Mold me and make me after thy will,
while I am waiting, yielded and still. [/quote]

<!--QuoteBegin--Jesus Loves Me
Jesus loves me! This I know,
for the Bible tells me so.
Little ones to him belong;
they are weak, but he is strong. [/quote]

Now tell me Gospel music isn't religious. :lol:

EDIT: Oh, and further evidence. I did a search for 10 Gospel songs and you know what my results were?

Jesus Loves Me
Amazing Grace
Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus
We Gather Together
Anointing Fall on Me
Awesome God
Have Thine Own Way, Lord
Holy, Holy, Holy
I Am Thine, O Lord
I Need Thee Every Hour

[User Name]

The only thing that it's really showing me Minus is that the writers of those songs were heavily influenced by their faith. A song doesn't automatically become religious because of that; it can't.

[Joe]

Alter Bridge are not a "christian" band. ;) If you can find any links to the christian faith and this band BuriedxTragedy i'd like to see them.

[Louis]

I do agree with the whole idea of how if a band's songs are influenced by religion, it doesn't necessarily make them fit under the category of Christian Rock or Muslim Rock or Jewish Rock or anything.

But genre's are made not to judge a band, it's more or less to minorly define a band's music. For example, a band like...let's see, The Killers. They play Indie Rock music, but they aren't necessarily considered to be a downright Indie Rock band.

But Cameron, genre's are not neccesarily to put a name on a band, it's more or less to put a name on the band's music. That's how I view it.

When someone calls Project 86 a Christian Band, it isn't necessarily because they're music has Christian beliefs in it but the band follows Christian beliefs.

Exactly it, my friend.

So, I agree with Cameron, but you've got it a bit wrong. It doesn't put a name on the band, it puts a name on the music they make.

EDIT: But you also mention that music does not have beliefs, obviously true. Oh God, now I sound like I keep changing my point...

*sigh*

Of course, music does not have beliefs, but saying a certain type of music is Christian Rock or Rap, it's sort of correct. I mean, if it involves Christianity, by all means, it's Christian. Now, it'd be more right to say it's Christianity-involved, but it's the label they have for it.

[Sylar]

Originally posted by Uncle_Raj@Jul 11 2005, 06:11 AM
Alter Bridge are not a "christian" band. ;) If you can find any links to the christian faith and this band BuriedxTragedy i'd like to see them.
Alright, If you're going to be that way about it...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/gli...dayremains.html (http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/glimpses/2005/onedayremains.html)

Wind-Up claims that they're not a Christian band but even a Christian website (Christian magazines and such are usually very critical of bands) says that their lyrics seem highly faith-based.

[Joe]

Originally posted by BuriedxTragedy+Jul 11 2005, 05:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BuriedxTragedy @ Jul 11 2005, 05:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Uncle_Raj@Jul 11 2005, 06:11 AM
Alter Bridge are not a "christian" band. ;) If you can find any links to the christian faith and this band BuriedxTragedy i'd like to see them.
Alright, If you're going to be that way about it...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/gli...dayremains.html (http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/glimpses/2005/onedayremains.html)

Wind-Up claims that they're not a Christian band but even a Christian website (Christian magazines and such are usually very critical of bands) says that their lyrics seem highly faith-based. [/b][/quote]
:lol: That is ridiculous, it's picked out a few lines from songs and related them to christianity, you could do that to any bands lyrics if you tried. It's all about interpretation, and i don't interpret their lyrics as being christian at all, that site was just looking for links between the lyrics and the christian faith, and your bound to find some if you're trying to.

The best part about that article is the way they try to influence the reader into thinking they're a christian band because they "thank God a couple of times in the linear notes", that made me laugh, a lot of bands thank god, that doesn't automatically make them a christian band. ;)

That article is nothing but speculation & interpretation, and is in no way proof that they are a "christian band".

[Ant]

Originally posted by BuriedxTragedy+Jul 11 2005, 04:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BuriedxTragedy @ Jul 11 2005, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Uncle_Raj@Jul 11 2005, 06:11 AM
Alter Bridge are not a "christian" band. ;) If you can find any links to the christian faith and this band BuriedxTragedy i'd like to see them.
Alright, If you're going to be that way about it...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/gli...dayremains.html (http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/glimpses/2005/onedayremains.html)

Wind-Up claims that they're not a Christian band but even a Christian website (Christian magazines and such are usually very critical of bands) says that their lyrics seem highly faith-based. [/b][/quote]
Christian websites like to say that about everything...

...oh, since this song seems to be abstractly related to religion, it's a Christian band! Oh,

...oh, since that movie has a gun in it, it's satanic!

Alter Bridge aren't a Christian band. The members are Christian, but it's not Christian music.

[Sylar]

Originally posted by Ant+Jul 11 2005, 02:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ant @ Jul 11 2005, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -BuriedxTragedy@Jul 11 2005, 04:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Uncle_Raj@Jul 11 2005, 06:11 AM
Alter Bridge are not a "christian" band. ;) If you can find any links to the christian faith and this band BuriedxTragedy i'd like to see them.
Alright, If you're going to be that way about it...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/gli...dayremains.html (http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/glimpses/2005/onedayremains.html)

Wind-Up claims that they're not a Christian band but even a Christian website (Christian magazines and such are usually very critical of bands) says that their lyrics seem highly faith-based.
Christian websites like to say that about everything...

...oh, since this song seems to be abstractly related to religion, it's a Christian band! Oh,

...oh, since that movie has a gun in it, it's satanic!

Alter Bridge aren't a Christian band. The members are Christian, but it's not Christian music. [/b][/quote]
Hence forth, why I would call them a Christian Band. Because the Band themselves, are Christians. Like I stated in my earlier post, just because the band is labelled a Christian band, it doesn't mean they're labelling the music.

[Odaton]

I think labels are dumb, but genres are not. All music (or literature, for that matter) follows a set of conventions, and each genre has different conventions...I mean jazz and rap are very different: jazz focuses on improvisation and is usually very sophisticated musically/harmonically; rap is fairly simple, if not minimal in this department. The structures of the songs, the mood, and the instruments that are used are very different, as well. I think we need genres like this to be able to categorize different conventions, just like we say that such-and-such a book is romance and another is a suspense novel.

I see your point when you talk about labels like Christian rock though. There's a fine line as to what Christian rock is (as there can be many interpretations of it) and many of these labels come with some really dumb stereotypes (such as saying System of A Down is bad because they are "nu-metal" another dumb label/stereotype). All in all, I think that is how are mind works, but I think some people are really pigeonholed into a specific way of thinking with labels.

[savetomorrow]

Originally posted by GiriosXeni@Jul 11 2005, 12:20 PM
I do agree with the whole idea of how if a band's songs are influenced by religion, it doesn't necessarily make them fit under the category of Christian Rock or Muslim Rock or Jewish Rock or anything.


Jewish Rock would be so awesome.

Barmitzvah Heights - Jerusalem Is For Lovers

[Ant]

Originally posted by BuriedxTragedy+Jul 11 2005, 07:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BuriedxTragedy @ Jul 11 2005, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Ant@Jul 11 2005, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by -BuriedxTragedy@Jul 11 2005, 04:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Uncle_Raj@Jul 11 2005, 06:11 AM
Alter Bridge are not a "christian" band. ;) If you can find any links to the christian faith and this band BuriedxTragedy i'd like to see them.
Alright, If you're going to be that way about it...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/gli...dayremains.html (http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/glimpses/2005/onedayremains.html)

Wind-Up claims that they're not a Christian band but even a Christian website (Christian magazines and such are usually very critical of bands) says that their lyrics seem highly faith-based.
Christian websites like to say that about everything...

...oh, since this song seems to be abstractly related to religion, it's a Christian band! Oh,

...oh, since that movie has a gun in it, it's satanic!

Alter Bridge aren't a Christian band. The members are Christian, but it's not Christian music.
Hence forth, why I would call them a Christian Band. Because the Band themselves, are Christians. Like I stated in my earlier post, just because the band is labelled a Christian band, it doesn't mean they're labelling the music. [/b][/quote]
No, actually, calling a band a "Christian Band" normally is indicative of the music.

[Ander]

"Band of Christians" would be indicative of the actual members of the band.

[Minus Xero]

Originally posted by Ander@Jul 11 2005, 06:14 PM
"Band of Christians" would be indicative of the actual members of the band.
Yes but in today's world, people are too lazy to be politically correct. :lol:

[Ander]

Originally posted by Minus Xero+Jul 11 2005, 04:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Minus Xero @ Jul 11 2005, 04:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ander@Jul 11 2005, 06:14 PM
"Band of Christians" would be indicative of the actual members of the band.
Yes but in today's world, people are too lazy to be politically correct. :lol: [/b][/quote]
RESPECT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, BOY! :lol:

[Minus Xero]

Originally posted by Ander+Jul 11 2005, 06:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ander @ Jul 11 2005, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Minus Xero@Jul 11 2005, 04:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Ander@Jul 11 2005, 06:14 PM
"Band of Christians" would be indicative of the actual members of the band.
Yes but in today's world, people are too lazy to be politically correct. :lol:
RESPECT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, BOY! :lol: [/b][/quote]
Oh yeah?

CHRISTIAN BAND CHRISTIAN BAND CHRISTIAN BAND. :P

But seriously, since when has being called a Christian Band been indicative of the music?

If calling a band a Christian Band means they 'play Christian music' apparently, what do we say about Big Bands?

Now Christian Bands are okay with me. Because that in itself is describing the band.

Saying Christian Rock, on the other hand, as this topic was first focused on, is kinda dumb.

That's the point I was going to make before, but Casey then pulled out the Gospel music stunt. :lol:

EDIT: I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. I think I may have inadvertantly switched sides on the issue. :lol:

[Sylar]

Originally posted by Ant+Jul 11 2005, 08:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ant @ Jul 11 2005, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -BuriedxTragedy@Jul 11 2005, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by -Ant@Jul 11 2005, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by -BuriedxTragedy@Jul 11 2005, 04:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Uncle_Raj@Jul 11 2005, 06:11 AM
Alter Bridge are not a "christian" band. ;) If you can find any links to the christian faith and this band BuriedxTragedy i'd like to see them.
Alright, If you're going to be that way about it...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/gli...dayremains.html (http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/glimpses/2005/onedayremains.html)

Wind-Up claims that they're not a Christian band but even a Christian website (Christian magazines and such are usually very critical of bands) says that their lyrics seem highly faith-based.
Christian websites like to say that about everything...

...oh, since this song seems to be abstractly related to religion, it's a Christian band! Oh,

...oh, since that movie has a gun in it, it's satanic!

Alter Bridge aren't a Christian band. The members are Christian, but it's not Christian music.
Hence forth, why I would call them a Christian Band. Because the Band themselves, are Christians. Like I stated in my earlier post, just because the band is labelled a Christian band, it doesn't mean they're labelling the music.
No, actually, calling a band a "Christian Band" normally is indicative of the music. [/b][/quote]
Not always.

[Ant]

Which is why I said "normally." :)

[McLovin]

I had no idea my ignorance would incite a thread. My bad.

I see what you're getting at, Cameron, that the sound of the music can change without changing the beliefs behind it whatsoever. I just realized that the first three bands on the mix-cd you posted have gone on tours that are sponsored by churches and by Effect Radio, and that they speak of God a lot in their lyrics. I like the ideas they promote through their music, but I also realize there is no specific sound or style associated with "Christian Rock." So, in short, I think Christian Rock bands write music through inspiration in God and speak of God many times in their lyrics, and I thought that you may have enjoyed that aspect of the music and/or lyrics because you posted many of these bands, but I realize that the label "Christian Rock" cannot define much of the sound and style that the band uses.

Enjoyable forms and styles of art will always inspire those interested in it to create new genre names to describe the kind of thing they tend to enjoy. Yet "Christian Rock," as I realize now more fully, is not a label name that is specific in the sound and style of the music and melodies it describes, but rather it describes the lyrics in the songs, as well as the goals and beliefs of the artists.