Bush Targets Iran

[Chris Luke]

(CBS/AP) Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Seymour Hersh says President Bush and his national security advisers had been "conducting secret reconnaissance missions inside Iran at least since last summer" for the purpose of gathering intelligence and targeting information.

Hersh writes in Monday's edition of The New Yorker magazine that he had repeatedly been told by intelligence and military officials on condition of anonymity that "the next strategic target was Iran."

Hersh reports the goal is to locate three dozen or more targets that could be destroyed in quick strikes and commando raids. He quotes a government consultant with close ties to the Pentagon as saying, "The civilians in the Pentagon want to go into Iran and destroy as much of the military infrastructure as possible."

American operatives have worked with Pakistan to plant nuclear detection devices in Iran, and are sharing information with Israel, Hersh quotes a former intelligence official as saying.

The United States has alleged that the Iranians may be testing high-explosive components for a nuclear weapon, using an inert core of depleted uranium as a dry run for how a bomb with fissile material would work.

The goal of the attacks would be not only to disrupt the Iranian nuclear program, but to topple the religious leadership that is blocking Iran's reform movement, the government consultant tells Hersh. Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz share that aim, the consultant said.

Hersh reports that much of this work is being done by the Pentagon so it will not have to submit to Congressional oversight, unlike the Central Intelligence Agency.

President Bush's communications director, Dan Bartlett, when questioned about the Hersh article during a broadcast interview, said he had read excerpts.

"I think it's riddled with inaccuracies. And I don't believe that some of the conclusions he's drawing are based on fact," the White House spokesman said.

The White House wants to resolve Iran's nuclear file through negotiation, primarily by relying on European allies and the International Atomic Energy Agency, said Bartlett. But he added that Mr. Bush has not ruled out resolving the issue militarily.

"No president at any juncture in history has ever taken military options off the table. That is known. But what President Bush has shown (is) that he believes we can emphasize the diplomatic initiatives that are under way right now," Bartlett said Sunday.

Mr. Bush has accused Iran of being part of an "axis of evil" with North Korea and prewar Iraq.

The U.N. nuclear watchdog had been pressing Tehran for months to be allowed to inspect the Tehran-area Parchin complex, long used to research ammunition, missiles and high explosives.

Source (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/29/world/main646227.shtml)

[F-ck Casey]

Hmm, I didn't think World War III would approach this fast.

[lpsk8er]

again with this bush crap.

[Matt]

Just when we thought things were going to be okay again.

[Kate]

Originally posted by Personal Jesus@Jan 17 2005, 05:57 PM
"I think it's riddled with inaccuracies. And I don't believe that some of the conclusions he's drawing are based on fact."
I like that. Bush and his weapons of mass destruction/explosives...psssht.

[Whimsicality]

I really, really hope that article is bull.

[Friskey™]

Please, I am getting sick and tired of this crap as well

[Jila]

ugh, i dont even know what to say about bush anymore. hes even more sick than i thought he was, and i do think hes a pretty evil person.

[Ryan]

Yah i figured this would happen at some point.

[Matt]

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK@Jan 17 2005, 05:57 PM
ugh, i dont even know what to say about bush anymore. hes even more sick than i thought he was, and i do think hes a pretty evil person.
Not evil, just really misguided and ignorant.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by _Matt_+Jan 17 2005, 10:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (_Matt_ @ Jan 17 2005, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jan 17 2005, 05:57 PM
ugh, i dont even know what to say about bush anymore. hes even more sick than i thought he was, and i do think hes a pretty evil person.
Not evil, just really misguided and ignorant. [/b][/quote]
Agreed.

[Jila]

sorry, but i think killing people for a stupid reason is evil. and im not just talking about the war.

[TeMpEsT]

Would you like to bomb Iran?

I&#39;m Saddam. Saddam I am.
I do not like you, Uncle Sam.

Would you like to bomb Iran?

We&#39;ll sell you weapons, despite the ban.
I would not like to bomb Iran&#33;
Praise be to Allah, and Koran&#33;

Those weapons are against convention...
Nevermind Geneva, pay no attention&#33;

We hate Iran, it&#39;s our contention.
We have no qualm, no apprehension&#33;
I&#39;ll give this task to Ibrahim.
He&#39;ll make a plan&#33;
He&#39;ll plot a scheme&#33;

Business as usual with your regime.
My inner circle is full of turds.
Is it any surprise that we&#39;d gas the Kurds?
We knew you gassed them in &#39;88.
We weren&#39;t concerned &#39;til you raided Kuwait.
You caused my invasion to be abated,
I&#39;m now on your list of most hated.

Alright, you win I&#39;ll withdraw.
I&#39;ll also kill my son-in-law.

With so little blood spilled on your soil,
your plot was much too easy to foil.


Could this war have been for oil?
What is this sound?
What is this treason?
Don&#39;t mind me, I&#39;m the voice of reason.

Now you&#39;ve started another war,
in time for the election of 2004.

We won this war without a hitch&#33;

You hippies have no right to bitch&#33;
But won&#39;t this war make Bechtel rich?
Who would you hire to repair Iraq?
Germany? Russia? Or Jacques Chirac?
This debate is tedious and may go on forever.
To document it in rhyme is a tremendous endeavor.
Perhaps it&#39;s best to let it die.

Justification is in the beholder&#39;s eye.
What will the media report without a war?

Real news is such a dreadful chore.
Shark attacks, SARS, invasion from Mars.

Terrorism, sports cars, and Hollywood stars.
Until we declare war on North Korea,
we&#39;ll have to settle for this journalistic diarrhea.
This discourse could go on, but what&#39;s the use?
It&#39;s just a tribute to Dr. Seuss

Would you like to bomb Iran? (http://www.maddox.xmission.net/bomb_iran.html)

[Link04]

Originally posted by Casey@Jan 18 2005, 12:07 AM
Hmm, I didn&#39;t think World War III would approach this fast.
I don&#39;t think this will become one. Iran, Iraq, and the countries in the middle east spend so little money on their militaries in comparison to the United States, it&#39;s just going to be another prolonged ordeal in which people will defend their land with anything any by any way possible. What&#39;s worse is that the world is going to let us do it. No one will stand up to the big bad United States.

[Shade]

Well people will stand up against us, but we&#39;ll be sure to quickly disown them. This isn&#39;t a surprise. I just hope the UN is smart enough to refuse to assist in any preemptive strikes that our coward president insists are necesssary. I wonder how many innocent casualties it will take before people realize voting for Bush was a mistake. Not that it matters now.

[Aaron]

I&#39;m probably the only one that thinks this, but hell, if Bush is going for Iran, I support him.

As much as I hate the guy, as much as I wish he were never re-elected, I would love to see if just wipe Iran off the face of the earth.

Every single time you turn on the news you get the same bullshit about some suicide bomber. It&#39;s been going on for years on end and will never stop. The sooner somebody steps in and stops it, the sooner we will have to stop hearing about the same daily routine about a man running in with shoe bombs and killing 3 people and injuring 30.

Sure we would have to put up with some crap about the events of it, but that would only be for so long. We&#39;d eventually just forget about it.

Once again, I hate Bush, I hope he rots, but I have been waiting for so long to see the United States of America just step on in and stop this war.

If that isn&#39;t one thing that Bush manages to do, then to bloody hell with him.

(And mind you, if I am not thinking of the right countries I am A. tired B. Tired. C. Lazy and D. Tired)

You can start bashing me on my opinion now, but I still hate Bush. Plain and simple.

[Mark]

The vast majority of all the suicide bombings in the middle-east are happening in Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. They are carried out by Al-Qaeda terrorists, Iraqi insurgents, and palestinian holy warriors. The bombers are not specific, nor do they portray the people of one country, especially Iran, and thus why the people of Iran shouldn&#39;t be punished simply for being muslims or living in the middle-east.

[F-ck Casey]

I&#39;m waiting for when Bush declares war on Canada. Or Mexico.

Shh, you know it&#39;s bound to happen.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Casey@Jan 21 2005, 10:57 PM
I&#39;m waiting for when Bush declares war on Canada. Or Mexico.

Shh, you know it&#39;s bound to happen.
...or Alaska.



What, you think he realizes it&#39;s part of the USA? Pfft.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Aaron@Jan 21 2005, 07:19 PM
I&#39;m probably the only one that thinks this, but hell, if Bush is going for Iran, I support him.

As much as I hate the guy, as much as I wish he were never re-elected, I would love to see if just wipe Iran off the face of the earth.

Every single time you turn on the news you get the same bullshit about some suicide bomber. It&#39;s been going on for years on end and will never stop. The sooner somebody steps in and stops it, the sooner we will have to stop hearing about the same daily routine about a man running in with shoe bombs and killing 3 people and injuring 30.

Sure we would have to put up with some crap about the events of it, but that would only be for so long. We&#39;d eventually just forget about it.

Once again, I hate Bush, I hope he rots, but I have been waiting for so long to see the United States of America just step on in and stop this war.

If that isn&#39;t one thing that Bush manages to do, then to bloody hell with him.

(And mind you, if I am not thinking of the right countries I am A. tired B. Tired. C. Lazy and D. Tired)

You can start bashing me on my opinion now, but I still hate Bush. Plain and simple.
1. Terrorists just don&#39;t come from Iran, they come from many middle east countries, including Saudi Arabia, who is supposidley one of our best allies. We&#39;ll never go after Saudi Arabia though. Why? One word: oil

2. You can&#39;t punish many for the actions of the few. Thats the logic behind the Iraq and Afghanistan war, and that logic sucks. Bush thinks its OK to kill millions of innocent people to grab a handful of terrorists, well it&#39;s not OK. If there was a murderer in your neighborhood, it wouldn&#39;t be right to execute everyone in the neighborhood, same principle here.

3. Bush made a mistake in Iraq. He lied about the WMDs, and we still haven&#39;t found them. How can we trust this douchebag the second time?

[Theazninvasion68]

let bush fight his own war
is he choses to make a suiside for america
were all doomed
al because he&#39;s going to start WWIII at the end of his carreer
i just know it have a really bad feeling for it
and one more things

bush dont rely on drafts too much

[linkin park psycho]

bush is the worst president ever..........

[TeMpEsT]

Originally posted by Whimsicality+Jan 21 2005, 10:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Whimsicality @ Jan 21 2005, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Casey@Jan 21 2005, 10:57 PM
I&#39;m waiting for when Bush declares war on Canada. Or Mexico.

Shh, you know it&#39;s bound to happen.
...or Alaska.



What, you think he realizes it&#39;s part of the USA? Pfft. [/b][/quote]
:lol:

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Todd+Jan 22 2005, 03:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jan 22 2005, 03:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Aaron@Jan 21 2005, 07:19 PM
I&#39;m probably the only one that thinks this, but hell, if Bush is going for Iran, I support him.

As much as I hate the guy, as much as I wish he were never re-elected, I would love to see if just wipe Iran off the face of the earth.

Every single time you turn on the news you get the same bullshit about some suicide bomber. It&#39;s been going on for years on end and will never stop. The sooner somebody steps in and stops it, the sooner we will have to stop hearing about the same daily routine about a man running in with shoe bombs and killing 3 people and injuring 30.

Sure we would have to put up with some crap about the events of it, but that would only be for so long. We&#39;d eventually just forget about it.

Once again, I hate Bush, I hope he rots, but I have been waiting for so long to see the United States of America just step on in and stop this war.

If that isn&#39;t one thing that Bush manages to do, then to bloody hell with him.

(And mind you, if I am not thinking of the right countries I am A. tired B. Tired. C. Lazy and D. Tired)

You can start bashing me on my opinion now, but I still hate Bush. Plain and simple.
1. Terrorists just don&#39;t come from Iran, they come from many middle east countries, including Saudi Arabia, who is supposidley one of our best allies. We&#39;ll never go after Saudi Arabia though. Why? One word: oil

2. You can&#39;t punish many for the actions of the few. Thats the logic behind the Iraq and Afghanistan war, and that logic sucks. Bush thinks its OK to kill millions of innocent people to grab a handful of terrorists, well it&#39;s not OK. If there was a murderer in your neighborhood, it wouldn&#39;t be right to execute everyone in the neighborhood, same principle here.

3. Bush made a mistake in Iraq. He lied about the WMDs, and we still haven&#39;t found them. How can we trust this douchebag the second time? [/b][/quote]
I told you I got my countries mixed up. It&#39;s Isreal and Palistine or wherever.

The Middle East is so confusing. All their countries are small, look the same, and all have these really messed up names that you mix up.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Mark@Jan 22 2005, 02:55 AM
The vast majority of all the suicide bombings in the middle-east are happening in Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. They are carried out by Al-Qaeda terrorists, Iraqi insurgents, and palestinian holy warriors. The bombers are not specific, nor do they portray the people of one country, especially Iran, and thus why the people of Iran shouldn&#39;t be punished simply for being muslims or living in the middle-east.
Are happening. How many were happening before we invaded? Not nearly as many. This is especially the case in Iraq. Insurgency is vastly different from terrorism. These people are guerrilla fighters trying to protect their homeland from who they see as imperialistic oppressors. They are different from "terrorists." But if you want to get techincal, we are no better.

But I was just pointing something out. I agree.


And (directed to everyone) I think it&#39;s literally inhumane to support Bush in a war in Iran, or any other country, and wish to "wipe them off the face of the earth." Absolutely sick. What you hear in the news is possibly hundreds of terrorist attacks a year, but what you don&#39;t see is the millions of the majority every day who live in absolute poverty, filth, and disease from day to day, who are just trying to survive. Is that who you want to eradicate?

[hybrid_soldier]

Originally posted by Aaron@Jan 22 2005, 01:19 AM
I&#39;m probably the only one that thinks this, but hell, if Bush is going for Iran, I support him.

As much as I hate the guy, as much as I wish he were never re-elected, I would love to see if just wipe Iran off the face of the earth.

Every single time you turn on the news you get the same bullshit about some suicide bomber. It&#39;s been going on for years on end and will never stop. The sooner somebody steps in and stops it, the sooner we will have to stop hearing about the same daily routine about a man running in with shoe bombs and killing 3 people and injuring 30.

Sure we would have to put up with some crap about the events of it, but that would only be for so long. We&#39;d eventually just forget about it.

Once again, I hate Bush, I hope he rots, but I have been waiting for so long to see the United States of America just step on in and stop this war.

If that isn&#39;t one thing that Bush manages to do, then to bloody hell with him.

(And mind you, if I am not thinking of the right countries I am A. tired B. Tired. C. Lazy and D. Tired)

You can start bashing me on my opinion now, but I still hate Bush. Plain and simple.
Iran is probably the last place were the terrorists come from..so fiirst of all gets your god damn facts right before u piss off iranians like me, understand? what you said had no backing what so ever. let me give you a advice think before you speak.

[Luke]

I really hate to say it american&#39;s (and I do love your country but I really would love to see your leader and vice president dead) but sooner or later your president is gonna do something crazy and the world will turn on you in a revolution.Its inevitable...

[Todd]

Originally posted by hellflame Prophecy@Jan 24 2005, 01:38 PM
I really hate to say it american&#39;s (and I do love your country but I really would love to see your leader and vice president dead) but sooner or later your president is gonna do something crazy and the world will turn on you in a revolution.Its inevitable...
Im American and I would like to see it happen, but it won&#39;t. The US army is too powerful and could put down any rebellion or attempted takeover. But there&#39;s nothing I&#39;d love more than to be watching Bush&#39;s funeral on TV. If that happens within the next 4 years, party at my place.

[Dean]

If this is true I hope Tony Blair doesn&#39;t get involved again.

[Luke]

Originally posted by Discordant@Jan 25 2005, 01:37 PM
If this is true I hope Tony Blair doesn&#39;t get involved again.
Tony Blair is just scared that if he doesn&#39;t kiss Bush&#39;s ass then Bush will turn on England

@Todd
True your countrys military force is way way way strong but its no match for a world force...

[Dean]

Originally posted by hellflame Prophecy+Jan 26 2005, 03:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hellflame Prophecy @ Jan 26 2005, 03:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Discordant@Jan 25 2005, 01:37 PM
If this is true I hope Tony Blair doesn&#39;t get involved again.
Tony Blair is just scared that if he doesn&#39;t kiss Bush&#39;s ass then Bush will turn on England [/b][/quote]
That&#39;s why I&#39;m worried.

[Kate]

If Bush actually does go after Iran, he&#39;ll just be wasting his time. North Korea is posing more of a problem at this point. And that Axis of Evil speech was pure bullshit, at least as far as Iran was concerned. The Iranians were actually trying to move forward and join the First World countries, but once they were labeled "evil" by Bush that went down the tubes.

I can feel my blood pressure rising, so I think I&#39;ll stop.

[Luke]

Well had you american&#39;s voted Kerry/Edwards this wouldn&#39;t of happened -_- :lol: ........Ok that was an unfair cheap shot but it is kinda true,why the fuck would you want this bastard running your country?

[Kate]

Originally posted by hellflame Prophecy@Jan 26 2005, 12:08 PM
Well had you american&#39;s voted Kerry/Johnson this wouldn&#39;t of happened -_- :lol: ........Ok that was an unfair cheap shot but it is kinda true,why the fuck would you want this bastard running your country?
No shit that was a cheap shot, if you had read many of the threads in this forum you would understand that a lot of us DID vote for Kerry--and his running mate was Edwards, not Johnson. Anyway, Bush won because of his mudslinging campaign and hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage, plus voting fraud and other shady issues. Some people want this bastard running our government because the conflict in Iraq is some sort of "holy war" and because gay marriage and abortion are immoral, and therefore should be banned.

I hope that that answers your question, and that you refrain from criticizing us because we&#39;ve got a dumbass for a president. In the words of Green Day, "Down with the moral majority."

[Link04]

Originally posted by fairladykate@Jan 26 2005, 05:13 PM
If Bush actually does go after Iran, he&#39;ll just be wasting his time. North Korea is posing more of a problem at this point. And that Axis of Evil speech was pure bullshit, at least as far as Iran was concerned. The Iranians were actually trying to move forward and join the First World countries, but once they were labeled "evil" by Bush that went down the tubes.

I can feel my blood pressure rising, so I think I&#39;ll stop.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on what side your on, it&#39;s our foreign economic policies that help prevent them from coming into the First World.

[Razan]

Originally posted by fairladykate+Jan 26 2005, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fairladykate @ Jan 26 2005, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Jan 26 2005, 12:08 PM
Well had you american&#39;s voted Kerry/Johnson this wouldn&#39;t of happened* -_-* :lol: ........Ok that was an unfair cheap shot but it is kinda true,why the fuck would you want this bastard running your country?
No shit that was a cheap shot, if you had read many of the threads in this forum you would understand that a lot of us DID vote for Kerry--and his running mate was Edwards, not Johnson. Anyway, Bush won because of his mudslinging campaign and hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage, plus voting fraud and other shady issues. Some people want this bastard running our government because the conflict in Iraq is some sort of "holy war" and because gay marriage and abortion are immoral, and therefore should be banned.

I hope that that answers your question, and that you refrain from criticizing us because we&#39;ve got a dumbass for a president. In the words of Green Day, "Down with the moral majority." [/b][/quote]
Didn&#39;t he just win because of the evangalists (sp?) or strict Christian vote?

My dentist voted for Bush, :argh: he said: "Better the devil we know, than someone we don&#39;t"
What kind of reason is that?

Thank all of you who didn&#39;t vote for Bush.

@ Aaron: Do me a favour, never post again when you&#39;re tired and don&#39;t know which countries you&#39;re talking about, please.
The countries with suicide bombers are: Israel and Palestine (Hamas and Hagana), Iraq (because of war), Saudi (very recently) and Afganistan (Al Qaeda). NOT IRAN&#33;
Suicide bombers are horrible and disgusting but they do it for a reason: to stop war.
They fail extremly miserably but they think: If we kill other people from the other side we&#39;re going to help....NO&#33;

[lpassailant]

Todd is a freakin&#39; genious, took the words right outa my mouth, thank you. as for bush&#39;s campaign rally: Terrible things are happeneing&#33; *re-reads invasion list* It seems that...whats that say? Eeh-rahn? no? Aye-Rain? Iran, ehem, Iran is conducting illegal activity and forming potential weapons to harm our country, vote for me, I can save the american peolpe from Ay-run. I&#39;ve made Suddamn pay for 9/11, now we must stop Oh-rin before it is too late. and also...*glances around* Gay people are getting married? you know what this means?? Men, and other men, women and other women, are getting married&#33;? Proposterous&#33; free will in America? I won&#39;t stand for it&#33; *marches off stage* - God I hate that man, as much as I&#39;d love to see him fuck up so I have joke material, I hope, I pray, I cry at night, because I hope this idiot does a good job... I DO like how he speant 40 million on an inaguration party while our troops are recuesting better supplies and are out there, dieing in the feilds fighting a war we are nearly losing, a good start indeed. All we can hope for now, is that Iran takes it like a bitch. (What am i saying? *gun to head*) the truth hurts ladies and gentlemen

[Luke]

Originally posted by fairladykate+Jan 26 2005, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fairladykate @ Jan 26 2005, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Jan 26 2005, 12:08 PM
Well had you american&#39;s voted Kerry/Johnson this wouldn&#39;t of happened* -_-* :lol: ........Ok that was an unfair cheap shot but it is kinda true,why the fuck would you want this bastard running your country?
No shit that was a cheap shot, if you had read many of the threads in this forum you would understand that a lot of us DID vote for Kerry--and his running mate was Edwards, not Johnson. Anyway, Bush won because of his mudslinging campaign and hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage, plus voting fraud and other shady issues. Some people want this bastard running our government because the conflict in Iraq is some sort of "holy war" and because gay marriage and abortion are immoral, and therefore should be banned.

I hope that that answers your question, and that you refrain from criticizing us because we&#39;ve got a dumbass for a president. In the words of Green Day, "Down with the moral majority." [/b][/quote]
I read the majority of threads thanks ;) .My point was that if everyone thinks that Bush is an asshole then why is he in power?

And I know my statement was unfair to the core and I did orginaly get Edwards messed up with Kerry but are we seriously gonna just sit on our asses and let Bush lead yours and my country into yet another war?

[Kate]

Originally posted by hellflame Prophecy+Jan 27 2005, 10:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hellflame Prophecy @ Jan 27 2005, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -fairladykate@Jan 26 2005, 06:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Jan 26 2005, 12:08 PM
Well had you american&#39;s voted Kerry/Johnson this wouldn&#39;t of happened* -_-* :lol: ........Ok that was an unfair cheap shot but it is kinda true,why the fuck would you want this bastard running your country?
No shit that was a cheap shot, if you had read many of the threads in this forum you would understand that a lot of us DID vote for Kerry--and his running mate was Edwards, not Johnson. Anyway, Bush won because of his mudslinging campaign and hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage, plus voting fraud and other shady issues. Some people want this bastard running our government because the conflict in Iraq is some sort of "holy war" and because gay marriage and abortion are immoral, and therefore should be banned.

I hope that that answers your question, and that you refrain from criticizing us because we&#39;ve got a dumbass for a president. In the words of Green Day, "Down with the moral majority."
I read the majority of threads thanks ;) .My point was that if everyone thinks that Bush is an asshole then why is he in power?

And I know my statement was unfair to the core and I did orginaly get Edwards messed up with Kerry but are we seriously gonna just sit on our asses and let Bush lead yours and my country into yet another war? [/b][/quote]
You completely missed what I was getting at.

My point was NOT everyone thinks that Bush is an asshole. Obviously, there are a lot of people out there who like Bush. You can&#39;t judge the entire electorate of the U.S. on what some kids on a message board think. For one thing, the majority of the users here aren&#39;t of age to vote, and for another, we&#39;re a pretty narrow sampling anyway. The way it seems, we&#39;re a bunch of middle-class under-thirties, and that&#39;s not a realistic picture of what the population of the United States is.

Also, please understand that I am not just sitting on my ass and letting Bush lead us into this war. I&#39;ve written many a letter to my congressman, and participated in many anti-war rallies. It&#39;s been said that you "cannot punish the many for the actions of the few", well, I think that works conversely, too: You cannot punish the few for the actions (or ignorance) of the many.

You&#39;re jumping to conclusions, and you&#39;re not looking any smarter because of it.

[Mark]

I know I&#39;m going to get backlash for this, but Hitler was all about racial purification and he invaded countries to acheive it. Bush is doing the exact same thing. I know nothing Bush did can come close to Hitler (genocide, camps, etc), but it&#39;s the same principles. Bush has no consideration for other races and is just invading each muslim-based middle-eastern country to "whipe out terorrists" while hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dying. Is it really worth it to kill a thousand terrorists and have another 100,000 innocent civilians die? No. There&#39;s no justification in that. And invading more countries will only create more hate, more terrorists. Don&#39;t they see that what they&#39;re doing is just going to backlash into a huge catastrophe?

I know Bush isn&#39;t that much of a racist, so don&#39;t give me shit about how much worse Hitler was than Bush, because I already know it.

[Luke]

Originally posted by fairladykate+Jan 27 2005, 07:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fairladykate @ Jan 27 2005, 07:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -hellflame Prophecy@Jan 27 2005, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by -fairladykate@Jan 26 2005, 06:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Jan 26 2005, 12:08 PM
Well had you american&#39;s voted Kerry/Johnson this wouldn&#39;t of happened* -_-* :lol: ........Ok that was an unfair cheap shot but it is kinda true,why the fuck would you want this bastard running your country?
No shit that was a cheap shot, if you had read many of the threads in this forum you would understand that a lot of us DID vote for Kerry--and his running mate was Edwards, not Johnson. Anyway, Bush won because of his mudslinging campaign and hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage, plus voting fraud and other shady issues. Some people want this bastard running our government because the conflict in Iraq is some sort of "holy war" and because gay marriage and abortion are immoral, and therefore should be banned.

I hope that that answers your question, and that you refrain from criticizing us because we&#39;ve got a dumbass for a president. In the words of Green Day, "Down with the moral majority."
I read the majority of threads thanks ;) .My point was that if everyone thinks that Bush is an asshole then why is he in power?

And I know my statement was unfair to the core and I did orginaly get Edwards messed up with Kerry but are we seriously gonna just sit on our asses and let Bush lead yours and my country into yet another war?
You completely missed what I was getting at.

My point was NOT everyone thinks that Bush is an asshole. Obviously, there are a lot of people out there who like Bush. You can&#39;t judge the entire electorate of the U.S. on what some kids on a message board think. For one thing, the majority of the users here aren&#39;t of age to vote, and for another, we&#39;re a pretty narrow sampling anyway. The way it seems, we&#39;re a bunch of middle-class under-thirties, and that&#39;s not a realistic picture of what the population of the United States is.

Also, please understand that I am not just sitting on my ass and letting Bush lead us into this war. I&#39;ve written many a letter to my congressman, and participated in many anti-war rallies. It&#39;s been said that you "cannot punish the many for the actions of the few", well, I think that works conversely, too: You cannot punish the few for the actions (or ignorance) of the many.

You&#39;re jumping to conclusions, and you&#39;re not looking any smarter because of it. [/b][/quote]
Actualy my life phrase is Don&#39;t jump to conclusions and I&#39;m not,my point is that why have the american people (not all just the ones who voted for Bush) enpowered someone who will lead their country to hate because he keeps on declaring war on all these countries.

Looking smart is not what I&#39;m trying to do,I&#39;m just stating my point of view

[Jila]

Originally posted by hellflame Prophecy+Jan 27 2005, 01:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hellflame Prophecy @ Jan 27 2005, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -fairladykate@Jan 27 2005, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by -hellflame Prophecy@Jan 27 2005, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by -fairladykate@Jan 26 2005, 06:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Jan 26 2005, 12:08 PM
Well had you american&#39;s voted Kerry/Johnson this wouldn&#39;t of happened* -_-* :lol: ........Ok that was an unfair cheap shot but it is kinda true,why the fuck would you want this bastard running your country?
No shit that was a cheap shot, if you had read many of the threads in this forum you would understand that a lot of us DID vote for Kerry--and his running mate was Edwards, not Johnson. Anyway, Bush won because of his mudslinging campaign and hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage, plus voting fraud and other shady issues. Some people want this bastard running our government because the conflict in Iraq is some sort of "holy war" and because gay marriage and abortion are immoral, and therefore should be banned.

I hope that that answers your question, and that you refrain from criticizing us because we&#39;ve got a dumbass for a president. In the words of Green Day, "Down with the moral majority."
I read the majority of threads thanks ;) .My point was that if everyone thinks that Bush is an asshole then why is he in power?

And I know my statement was unfair to the core and I did orginaly get Edwards messed up with Kerry but are we seriously gonna just sit on our asses and let Bush lead yours and my country into yet another war?
You completely missed what I was getting at.

My point was NOT everyone thinks that Bush is an asshole. Obviously, there are a lot of people out there who like Bush. You can&#39;t judge the entire electorate of the U.S. on what some kids on a message board think. For one thing, the majority of the users here aren&#39;t of age to vote, and for another, we&#39;re a pretty narrow sampling anyway. The way it seems, we&#39;re a bunch of middle-class under-thirties, and that&#39;s not a realistic picture of what the population of the United States is.

Also, please understand that I am not just sitting on my ass and letting Bush lead us into this war. I&#39;ve written many a letter to my congressman, and participated in many anti-war rallies. It&#39;s been said that you "cannot punish the many for the actions of the few", well, I think that works conversely, too: You cannot punish the few for the actions (or ignorance) of the many.

You&#39;re jumping to conclusions, and you&#39;re not looking any smarter because of it.
Actualy my life phrase is Don&#39;t jump to conclusions and I&#39;m not,my point is that why have the american people (not all just the ones who voted for Bush) enpowered someone who will lead their country to hate because he keeps on declaring war on all these countries.

Looking smart is not what I&#39;m trying to do,I&#39;m just stating my point of view [/b][/quote]
you cant look at american citizens as a whole, they are, in fact, different people with different opinions. the fact is that there are many republicans who voted for bush and that does not mean that everyone in america just let him be in power. more people voted for him and/or it was rigged. either way, your statement "why have the american people (not all just the ones who voted for Bush) enpowered someone who will lead their country to hate because he keeps on declaring war on all these countries." is irrelevant because there is nothing we can do about it as individuals.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Mark@Jan 27 2005, 02:40 PM
I know I&#39;m going to get backlash for this, but Hitler was all about racial purification and he invaded countries to acheive it. Bush is doing the exact same thing. I know nothing Bush did can come close to Hitler (genocide, camps, etc), but it&#39;s the same principles. Bush has no consideration for other races and is just invading each muslim-based middle-eastern country to "whipe out terorrists" while hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dying. Is it really worth it to kill a thousand terrorists and have another 100,000 innocent civilians die? No. There&#39;s no justification in that. And invading more countries will only create more hate, more terrorists. Don&#39;t they see that what they&#39;re doing is just going to backlash into a huge catastrophe?

I know Bush isn&#39;t that much of a racist, so don&#39;t give me shit about how much worse Hitler was than Bush, because I already know it.
Bush could easily put some Iraqis in Concentration Camps/Death Camps.

I figure if it happen in the Philippines in 1900 under McKinley, why not Bush eh?

I don&#39;t think that&#39;ll happen, but it&#39;s a possiblity.

[htep.fan]

I think Bush is making a good move on Iran. Iran has always been a threat, unlike Iraq (that war had half good reasons, like toppling Saddam, and half bad reasons, like the weapons of mass destructions, but the whole development of the war, the dead soldiers and civilians on both sides, the terrorists still roaming free there, etc... I guess the war overall was bad). Besides, the Iranies support the Shiite preachers that want to make an Islamic republic in Iraq, I&#39;m not opposing to Islam or anything, it&#39;s just that a republic should be separated from a religion, and Islamics republics are usually fundamentallists. Besides, the Iranians do have nuclear power, and it should be regulated. And the next elections in Iran are been shaped up by the Shiite leaders so that they are still on power (again, I&#39;m not against Islam). But what Bush is doing wrong is subestimating N. Korea. It could prove mortal. Also, this time he must get some approval from the UN, please. And if war does happen, it should be carried out properly. The war in Iraq is a clown show until now, and I think it should be ended, because the troops - and the country - can&#39;t do much more.

I know, you are going to say I&#39;m a Bush lover, but I have clearer views. I come from the most violent region of the world, and, if it&#39;s not the poorest in the world, it has the biggest differences in the division of goods (75 percent of my country is poor--South American poor). I think both rightists and leftists have fucked my region in the front and in behind. The rightists, with their freedomlessness, and the leftists, with their dumbness hidden behind fake intelligence. And I have come with these views from all the years I spent in my country, since I was born prematurely in a cheap clinic (I&#39;ve heard here before abortion prevents premature babies...it doesn&#39;t...it just gets rid of them...I&#39;m premature...come get rid of me...) to the day I rode an airplane here.
The rightists have come to transform economies from dumbasses to kickasses, but they kick the asses of our rights too. The leftists are all happy talking, but in the end everyone is poor and miserable, because leftist economics are plain sad (that&#39;s how the Soviet Union died---people starved waiting for government bread in long lines...they got tired of it). The saddest thing is that the people from my region just keep kicking dudes out of office...the dudes in the office all fail...and suddenly there&#39;s people speaking some weird language called Spanish next door...at school...etc....

[Jila]

Originally posted by htep.fan@Jan 27 2005, 05:45 PM
I think Bush is making a good move on Iran. Iran has always been a threat, unlike Iraq (that war had half good reasons, like toppling Saddam, and half bad reasons, like the weapons of mass destructions, but the whole development of the war, the dead soldiers and civilians on both sides, the terrorists still roaming free there, etc... I guess the war overall was bad). Besides, the Iranies support the Shiite preachers that want to make an Islamic republic in Iraq.. blah blah blah
are you kidding me? you obviously know nothing about war. war kills innocent people, not just a few people, just in case you didnt know.

my dad and his family are from iran and they had everything taken away from them because of their religion (which is not, by the way, islam) when there was some dumbshit ruler there. no one deserves shit like that, then you want to go and bomb that place. people go on thinking, oh, there are terrorists, lets bomb that country. there are innocent people there, its better for them to move out like my dads family did rather than die from americans bombing the country. and nuclear power? yeah fucking right. thats exactly what bush said about iraq. did we find anything? no.

and honestly, whether or not iranian government is going to support iraq having an islamic republic, it doesnt affect you at all. theres absolutely no point it bombing it for support. if mexico decided they support bush&#39;s decision for a war and another country doesnt like it, does it make it right to bomb mexico? no. thats just idiotic.

p.s. its iranian, not iranies :rolleyes:

[Link04]

Originally posted by htep.fan@Jan 28 2005, 12:45 AM
I think Bush is making a good move on Iran. Iran has always been a threat, unlike Iraq (that war had half good reasons, like toppling Saddam, and half bad reasons, like the weapons of mass destructions, but the whole development of the war, the dead soldiers and civilians on both sides, the terrorists still roaming free there, etc... I guess the war overall was bad). Besides, the Iranies support the Shiite preachers that want to make an Islamic republic in Iraq, I&#39;m not opposing to Islam or anything, it&#39;s just that a republic should be separated from a religion, and Islamics republics are usually fundamentallists. Besides, the Iranians do have nuclear power, and it should be regulated. And the next elections in Iran are been shaped up by the Shiite leaders so that they are still on power (again, I&#39;m not against Islam). But what Bush is doing wrong is subestimating N. Korea. It could prove mortal. Also, this time he must get some approval from the UN, please. And if war does happen, it should be carried out properly. The war in Iraq is a clown show until now, and I think it should be ended, because the troops - and the country - can&#39;t do much more.

I know, you are going to say I&#39;m a Bush lover, but I have clearer views. I come from the most violent region of the world, and, if it&#39;s not the poorest in the world, it has the biggest differences in the division of goods (75 percent of my country is poor--South American poor). I think both rightists and leftists have fucked my region in the front and in behind. The rightists, with their freedomlessness, and the leftists, with their dumbness hidden behind fake intelligence. And I have come with these views from all the years I spent in my country, since I was born prematurely in a cheap clinic (I&#39;ve heard here before abortion prevents premature babies...it doesn&#39;t...it just gets rid of them...I&#39;m premature...come get rid of me...) to the day I rode an airplane here.
The rightists have come to transform economies from dumbasses to kickasses, but they kick the asses of our rights too. The leftists are all happy talking, but in the end everyone is poor and miserable, because leftist economics are plain sad (that&#39;s how the Soviet Union died---people starved waiting for government bread in long lines...they got tired of it). The saddest thing is that the people from my region just keep kicking dudes out of office...the dudes in the office all fail...and suddenly there&#39;s people speaking some weird language called Spanish next door...at school...etc....
So you&#39;re willing to force Western ideas upon another country by point of gun?

Just how many Islamic Republics do you know of?

You do realize that the majority of Iraq is made up of the Shiite&#39;s too, right?

Is there such thing as a "properly carried out" war?

[Razan]

Originally posted by Mark@Jan 27 2005, 08:40 PM
I know I&#39;m going to get backlash for this, but Hitler was all about racial purification and he invaded countries to acheive it. Bush is doing the exact same thing. I know nothing Bush did can come close to Hitler (genocide, camps, etc), but it&#39;s the same principles. Bush has no consideration for other races and is just invading each muslim-based middle-eastern country to "whipe out terorrists" while hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dying. Is it really worth it to kill a thousand terrorists and have another 100,000 innocent civilians die? No. There&#39;s no justification in that. And invading more countries will only create more hate, more terrorists. Don&#39;t they see that what they&#39;re doing is just going to backlash into a huge catastrophe?

I know Bush isn&#39;t that much of a racist, so don&#39;t give me shit about how much worse Hitler was than Bush, because I already know it.
That&#39;s exactly what my dad told me&#33;
Roughly in his words:

"Dont&#39; you think if it wasn&#39;t for the U.N or looking good that he would acctually do it if he had the chance?

He would definately do it, no doubt about it, there&#39;s so much need for power he would wipe out the whole middle east for oil and say it&#39;s a friggin "holy war against evil muslims"&#33;

But he knows he can&#39;t or else he&#39;d get into so much shit and more people would realise he&#39;s a bastard. It&#39;s not a matter of if he wants to because he does, be it&#39;s a matter of what he can do because he can&#39;t do that, it would look too bad and everyone would be on his back.

Hitler is only worse than Bush because he didn&#39;t have a "valid reason" to do it and he could do way worse because no one could question him."

Edit: My dad gives me loads of lectures about war so I really only know what he tells me (alot) or what I read about it (little).
I&#39;m not tring to look smart, I know I look stupid because I only know what my dad tells me so correct me if he&#39;s/I&#39;m wrong.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Mark@Jan 27 2005, 02:40 PM
I know I&#39;m going to get backlash for this, but Hitler was all about racial purification and he invaded countries to acheive it. Bush is doing the exact same thing. I know nothing Bush did can come close to Hitler (genocide, camps, etc), but it&#39;s the same principles. Bush has no consideration for other races and is just invading each muslim-based middle-eastern country to "whipe out terorrists" while hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dying. Is it really worth it to kill a thousand terrorists and have another 100,000 innocent civilians die? No. There&#39;s no justification in that. And invading more countries will only create more hate, more terrorists. Don&#39;t they see that what they&#39;re doing is just going to backlash into a huge catastrophe?

I know Bush isn&#39;t that much of a racist, so don&#39;t give me shit about how much worse Hitler was than Bush, because I already know it.
Abu Ghirab, Guantanamo. As far as we know, at least the prisoners in those places are guilty (thats what Hitler said about the Jews though) and the conditions there are shit and prisoners get abused, and thats just what we hear from the media, there could be worse, same with the Holocaust. The camps weren&#39;t made out to be that bad, but once the Jews were liberated, the truth about the camps came out. So we really have no idea what&#39;s going on in Abu Ghirab and Guantanamo, but it wouldn&#39;t suprise me if they&#39;re Bush&#39;s own little Auschwitz and Buchenwald. Regardless of what goes on inside the prisons, looking at the death tolls of INNOCENT CIVILIANS will clearly show that the entire country is a death camp. I don&#39;t care what the government says or what others think. The war in the middle east is a Holocaust on a smaller scale.


Hitler is only worse than Bush because he didn&#39;t have a "valid reason" to do it and he could do way worse because no one could question him."
Bush&#39;s reason for war isn&#39;t any more valid than Hitler&#39;s. And I&#39;m sure many people questioned Hitler, he just didn&#39;t listen to them. Same with Bush, he doesn&#39;t give a fuck what anyone else thinks and has his ass kissers in congress pass whatever he wants.

[Shade]

I wonder when it is exactly that a country decides that it should be the ruling force over the rest of the world. Case and point, here America is, thinking we&#39;re all high and mighty, and have the right to tell all the other countries of the world to not seek/have nuclear weapons etc. Meanwhile, we have a massive nuclear arsenal, are exploring missile defense systems and are busy invading arbitrary countries at whim.

Oh that&#39;s right, we can&#39;t let the terrorists have these weapons, who knows what they&#39;ll do with them. As if our actions of late speak highly for ourselves. I wouldn&#39;t trust the United States with a nuclear weapon right now more than I would trust North Korea. If we want to work against nuclear proliferation, we need to take a step back ourselves, not invade other countries for seeking the same technology we ourselves possess. That&#39;s just asinine.

[Luke]

Originally posted by Todd@Jan 28 2005, 05:44 AM
Bush&#39;s reason for war isn&#39;t any more valid than Hitler&#39;s. And I&#39;m sure many people questioned Hitler, he just didn&#39;t listen to them. Same with Bush, he doesn&#39;t give a fuck what anyone else thinks and has his ass kissers in congress pass whatever he wants.
Well Said&#33;

[Link04]

Originally posted by Shade@Jan 28 2005, 07:03 AM
I wonder when it is exactly that a country decides that it should be the ruling force over the rest of the world. Case and point, here America is, thinking we&#39;re all high and mighty, and have the right to tell all the other countries of the world to not seek/have nuclear weapons etc. Meanwhile, we have a massive nuclear arsenal, are exploring missile defense systems and are busy invading arbitrary countries at whim.

Oh that&#39;s right, we can&#39;t let the terrorists have these weapons, who knows what they&#39;ll do with them. As if our actions of late speak highly for ourselves. I wouldn&#39;t trust the United States with a nuclear weapon right now more than I would trust North Korea. If we want to work against nuclear proliferation, we need to take a step back ourselves, not invade other countries for seeking the same technology we ourselves possess. That&#39;s just asinine.
Brilliant point. ^_^

[Odaton]

Wow, some deep stuff that you wouldn&#39;t find on most political boards ;)

But really, this is how it is, although it is much more money-driven than was Hitler who was almost solely religious fanaticism. I think that he believes in the two and he&#39;ll get a lot of supporters from that. I think the war in Iraq has really galvanized the religious right in America.