9-11-2004: Pentagon

[TeMpEsT]

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryho...le/pentagon.php (http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php)

I was convinced that there was a plane that crashed into the Pentagon until after seeing this video. It's Washington D.C., there are cameras all over the city, highways, commercial buildings, GOVERNMENT buildings, but no videos have been released showing that an airplane actually crashed into the Pentagon.

[Chris(tmas)]

Its clear that it wasnt a plane. When you look at the WTC photo's, you can also see a what seems to be a rocket hanging underneath the airplane, and right before it hits the building you see a explosion. Also, the firemen inside heard explosions going off at the same time.

[Ander]

Trying to decide what's more serious: the fact that they tricked so many people, or the fact that so many people are stupid enough to be tricked.

[Chris(tmas)]

Another interesting site about 911

Lets Roll 911 (http://www.letsroll911.org)

[Vampire]

Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.

[Ander]

Originally posted by Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 02:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
Yes it will. Because we hit us.

[Chris(tmas)]

Originally posted by Ander+Dec 25 2004, 12:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ander @ Dec 25 2004, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 02:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
Yes it will. Because we hit us. [/b][/quote]
I was thinking that too, but it would sound strange for you guys to say that someone from Holland would go and say that America blasted themselfs away.



My english is so good it makes me cry

[Ander]

Originally posted by Chris(tmas)+Dec 24 2004, 03:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chris(tmas) @ Dec 24 2004, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Ander@Dec 25 2004, 12:12 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 02:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
Yes it will. Because we hit us.
I was thinking that too, but it would sound strange for you guys to say that someone from Holland would go and say that America blasted themselfs away.



My english is so good it makes me cry [/b][/quote]
:lol: I mean we as in "the non-wooden shoe government of the United States"

[Chris(tmas)]

I know that :lol: I kinda formulated it wrong.


My point:

It would sound strange that someone who isnt from America would say that America just blasted that rocket to themselfs.

[Luke/Hellflame]

Originally posted by Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 10:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
So what your basicly saying is that you don't care that the biggest, greatest nation in the world is responsable for the death of more than 4000 people?

That video just backs up my beleifs that sept 11th 2001 was fixed by the american government.Think about it logicly for a second, the tapes of the city angle of the pentagon crash were never released and a quiestion is raised-why?.The answer is that the american government were setting up the biggest propaganda show ever and they wanted people to beleive that it was a boeing 757 that had crashed into the pentagon by Arabic hyjackers and they didn't want people too see that it was a large missile which purpose was to crash into the pentagon and make it look like a hyjacked aircraft which was a terrorist attack on America.
As for the twin towers,if you look at the tapes closely 5 seconds before the towers fall you can see a small rumble at the very bottom of the first tower and then the towers fall.People have said that this is the foundations of the building giving way and falling-well the design of the towers was so that that could never happen and each floor had its own foundations,if that was true then the building would never have fully collapsed and it would only have fallen a few hundred feet before stopping at one of the floors,unless however an explosive powerful enough to break all of those floor foundations was set off-this is the only way the towers could have fallen,think about it,why would a tower fall if the plane struck a few thousand feet almost at the top of it,the answer is simple-to make it look more terrible and catch more attention.Its been proven that the 10 'hyjackers' never existed.
The whole of september 11th was propaganda against the middle eastern world so America could go in and take what they could and end up controling it.Its all about money and power.

Now this was no offense to any American people at all and I do actualy love the american country however I am sorry to say that your country is overun with secrets and power must be taken away from your government before something horrible happens

Now I'm expecting some kind of flame for this so post away!

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
Wow. I didnt think a person could be such a close-minded jerk.

[User Name]

Like your comment is making it any better, Nate.

[Joanna]

Originally posted by Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 10:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
How can you say that? It's NEVER, NEVER over, especially for those who lost family members during that horrendous incident. Seriously, if there's one thing I hate the most in this world, it's ignorance.

[El Postwhore]

Let'sRoll911.org is sorta an interesting find. On the forums, a few of us aviation people (including Boeing engineers and 767 crew) stated that a missile pod underneath the wing of a 767-200ER (as was stated by the author of the site) was impossible, both structurally and aerodynamically. We were banned on sight. I'm no expert on the truth behind 9/11, but to someone like me (who knows more than the average bear about flying and the like), that site's just a conspiracy theory.

[Whimsicality]

Snopes.com - Hunt the Boeing! (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)
Claim: The damage to the Pentagon on September 11 was caused by something other than a hijacked Boeing 757's being crashed into its side.
Status: False.

[Willstar]

Originally posted by Whimsicality@Dec 24 2004, 09:16 PM
Snopes.com - Hunt the Boeing! (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)
Claim: The damage to the Pentagon on September 11 was caused by something other than a hijacked Boeing 757's being crashed into its side.
Status: False.
Even if all of the rings were damaged, there is still no proof on this planet that a Boeing 747 hit the Pentagon.

It would've had to have been feet off the ground, and no pilot who had only a couple of weeks of training could do that. Also, none of the cars on the highway that it would've passed over were toppled, no signs were toppled, no light poles were toppled, no sonic boom was ever heard. Witnesses all over said they never saw a Boeing, but that they did hear the whine of a fighter jet (I forget which type). Also, there's absolutely no video of a Boeing 747 in the vicinity at all.

Explain that, Snopes.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Will@Dec 24 2004, 09:46 PM
Even if all of the rings were damaged, there is still no proof on this planet that a Boeing 747 hit the Pentagon.

It would've had to have been feet off the ground, and no pilot who had only a couple of weeks of training could do that.
I don't know enough about planes to be any authority on this subject, but a few weeks is a long time if you literally spend all day training/studying/whatever. SmashPilot? Any input?

Also, none of the cars on the highway that it would've passed over were toppled, no signs were toppled, no light poles were toppled, no sonic boom was ever heard. Witnesses all over said they never saw a Boeing, but that they did hear the whine of a fighter jet (I forget which type). Also, there's absolutely no video of a Boeing 747 in the vicinity at all.
I don't know what a Boeing or a fighter is supposed to sound like, so I can't really talk there. Stuff not being knocked over? Again, I don't know shit about planes, so I can't prove or disprove that. But as for not seeing: how many people really look at the sky, even when they hear a plane?

[Willstar]

I think people will notice a plane 20 feet off the ground.

And when something is moving 600-700 MPH, shit's gonna go flying.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Will@Dec 24 2004, 10:05 PM
And when something is moving 600-700 MPH, shit's gonna go flying.
:lol:

Like I said before, I can't really argue because I don't know crap about planes or aerodynamics. But I would send in your comments (the easy little forum is here (http://snopes.com/cgi-bin/comments/comments.asp).)

But, as Smash pointed out, not every site claiming a plane didn't hit the pentagon is full of truth either.

[Mark]

Logic. You don't need scientific proof about aerodynamics to know that any object that huge racing by a car or truck at 600MPH+ will send it flying. Category 5 hurricanes have top wind speeds of 155MPH.

[El Postwhore]

Originally posted by Will+Dec 24 2004, 08:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Dec 24 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Whimsicality@Dec 24 2004, 09:16 PM
Snopes.com - Hunt the Boeing! (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)
Claim: The damage to the Pentagon on September 11 was caused by something other than a hijacked Boeing 757's being crashed into its side.
Status: False.
Even if all of the rings were damaged, there is still no proof on this planet that a Boeing 747 hit the Pentagon.

It would've had to have been feet off the ground, and no pilot who had only a couple of weeks of training could do that. Also, none of the cars on the highway that it would've passed over were toppled, no signs were toppled, no light poles were toppled, no sonic boom was ever heard. Witnesses all over said they never saw a Boeing, but that they did hear the whine of a fighter jet (I forget which type). Also, there's absolutely no video of a Boeing 747 in the vicinity at all.

Explain that, Snopes. [/b][/quote]
Boeing 757. The 747 is much bigger.

Boeing 757 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=101)

Boeing 747 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=100)

There's a big difference. If it had been a fully-fueled 747, the Pentagon as a whole would have likely been destroyed.

On to the speed. 600MPH+ is 521 knots +. This is far beyond the structural limit speed of a Boeing 757 (Vne/Never Exceed Speed, which for the 757-200 is 459 knots). Speeds above this can cause structural cracks, failures of wing components, etc..., and can overstress the airframe in general. That said, the 757 was not traveling in excess of this speed. If it had been an Airbus, I'd have even more support in this department, as the flight computers will not allow the crew to overspeed, stall (underspeed), overbank, overpitch or in any way exceed the flight envelope. There's a great video floating around of a Eurowings A319-100 doing a 'soft-field' takeoff using the protective systems to enable a max performance (read: WICKED! (w00t) ) climb.

Now to Whimsicality's question: Yes, it would have been possible. The flight profile in question would NOT have been a few feet above ground level (AGL). The aircraft would have descended to somewhere around 1000' AGL, before beginning a dive-bomb attack on a point somewhere in front of the impact zone, before which the plane would slowly (and I stress the slowly, especially at high speeds, when a high-speed stall can be caused by too much pitch input) pull out of its dive (from around 10-15 degrees nose down to approx. 0.5 degrees nose up) and impact the building. Such a hit would produce damage consistent with that seen on 9/11.

Thus ends my big technical-specs-filled rant. Any comments?

[TeMpEsT]

Originally posted by Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
If you intend to be such a dick, stay in Random Chat.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by TeMpEsT+Dec 25 2004, 01:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TeMpEsT @ Dec 25 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
If you intend to be such a dick, stay in Random Chat. [/b][/quote]
"Did you ever know that youre my hero?"


:lol:

[TeMpEsT]

Originally posted by Nate+Dec 25 2004, 01:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nate @ Dec 25 2004, 01:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -TeMpEsT@Dec 25 2004, 01:01 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
If you intend to be such a dick, stay in Random Chat.
"Did you ever know that youre my hero?"


:lol:[/b][/quote]
I want a Nate for Christmas...

:'(

[Vampire]

Originally posted by TeMpEsT+Dec 24 2004, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TeMpEsT @ Dec 24 2004, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
If you intend to be such a dick, stay in Random Chat. [/b][/quote]
Thanks for the flame remark which of course staff supports and let's you get away with.

It's nice to see the childish side of LPA come out on Christmas Eve of all days. I am far from surprised, especially the remarks from staff.

Seriously, some of you make the most stupidest assumptions. Because I said we should leave the subject alone, you assume I don't care about the people who died on 9/11? Right.

I swear, some of you buy anything you see on the internet. Us killing ourselves intentionally? That's just ignorant people who are mad at what happened on 9/11 because the government "couldn't prevent it "so they blame anyone they can...in this case...surprise, the government! To me, that's the people who are pathetic. Whine, whine, whine, that's all we get these days.

My point is: just leave it alone. Why bring it up to just say, "I think this person did it," ? What we should be doing is remembering those who passed away, moving on stronger, rebuilding what was destroyed. Hate to counter hate? I think not. Grow up, some of you, I beg you. The real world will not tolerate children forever.

[Jila]

Originally posted by hellflame Prophecy+Dec 24 2004, 04:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hellflame Prophecy @ Dec 24 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 10:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
So what your basicly saying is that you don't care that the biggest, greatest nation in the world is responsable for the death of more than 4000 people? [/b][/quote]
america isnt necessarily the biggest, greatest nation in the world :wth:

[Doctor Manhattan]

I think Hellflame is trying to say that America is "more powerful" or something. I tend to agree, since, I believe, or army is the strongest in the world. I could be (and probably am) wrong, but oh well.

As for biggest? China (IIRC) has the worlds biggest population. They're so over-crowded, the government only allows one child per house-hold, I think.

[Jila]

but i mean saying its the greatest nation in the world is a huge over statement.

[Doctor Manhattan]

most Americans do think the US is the greatest nation in the world, but that comes down to one of two things, or possibly both: stupidity and/or patriotism.

but yeah, it is a huge over-statement.

[Jila]

Originally posted by Casey@Dec 25 2004, 01:12 AM
most Americans do think the US is the greatest nation in the world, but that comes down to one of two things, or possibly both: stupidity and/or patriotism.

but yeah, it is a huge over-statement.
yeah i agree. and whats worse is that most people that i meet who say that shit have never been to a foreign country in their life :lol:

[TeMpEsT]

Originally posted by Vampire+Dec 25 2004, 02:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vampire @ Dec 25 2004, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -TeMpEsT@Dec 24 2004, 10:01 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
If you intend to be such a dick, stay in Random Chat.
Thanks for the flame remark which of course staff supports and let's you get away with.

It's nice to see the childish side of LPA come out on Christmas Eve of all days. I am far from surprised, especially the remarks from staff.

Seriously, some of you make the most stupidest assumptions. Because I said we should leave the subject alone, you assume I don't care about the people who died on 9/11? Right.

I swear, some of you buy anything you see on the internet. Us killing ourselves intentionally? That's just ignorant people who are mad at what happened on 9/11 because the government "couldn't prevent it "so they blame anyone they can...in this case...surprise, the government! To me, that's the people who are pathetic. Whine, whine, whine, that's all we get these days.

My point is: just leave it alone. Why bring it up to just say, "I think this person did it," ? What we should be doing is remembering those who passed away, moving on stronger, rebuilding what was destroyed. Hate to counter hate? I think not. Grow up, some of you, I beg you. The real world will not tolerate children forever. [/b][/quote]
I'm being childish for starting a thread asking for friendly input?

Wait a second, you came in here, obviously aggravated with the subject, and posted a remark (in what you refer) "unbecoming of Christmas time." Don't tread on us when you came in here to start it. If you don't like the topic, don't post. I was curious for people's input on this, and you barrage the thread and other people's opinions. Realize that we have opinions, please respect them. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm just saying that you took it too far.

[Vampire]

Originally posted by TeMpEsT+Dec 25 2004, 12:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TeMpEsT @ Dec 25 2004, 12:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Vampire@Dec 25 2004, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by -TeMpEsT@Dec 24 2004, 10:01 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
If you intend to be such a dick, stay in Random Chat.
Thanks for the flame remark which of course staff supports and let's you get away with.

It's nice to see the childish side of LPA come out on Christmas Eve of all days. I am far from surprised, especially the remarks from staff.

Seriously, some of you make the most stupidest assumptions. Because I said we should leave the subject alone, you assume I don't care about the people who died on 9/11? Right.

I swear, some of you buy anything you see on the internet. Us killing ourselves intentionally? That's just ignorant people who are mad at what happened on 9/11 because the government "couldn't prevent it "so they blame anyone they can...in this case...surprise, the government! To me, that's the people who are pathetic. Whine, whine, whine, that's all we get these days.

My point is: just leave it alone. Why bring it up to just say, "I think this person did it," ? What we should be doing is remembering those who passed away, moving on stronger, rebuilding what was destroyed. Hate to counter hate? I think not. Grow up, some of you, I beg you. The real world will not tolerate children forever.
I'm being childish for starting a thread asking for friendly input?

Wait a second, you came in here, obviously aggravated with the subject, and posted a remark (in what you refer) "unbecoming of Christmas time." Don't tread on us when you came in here to start it. If you don't like the topic, don't post. I was curious for people's input on this, and you barrage the thread and other people's opinions. Realize that we have opinions, please respect them. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm just saying that you took it too far. [/b][/quote]
Friendly input? On this kind of subject? You're kidding right? You expected a friendly koombaya chat on this? I'm just so sick and tired of people questioning what happened that day saying that our own government was involved -- it's all speculation and childish mis-finger-pointing. I posted my opinion which is what you asked for. You should have been prepared for the heat.

[Luke/Hellflame]

Originally posted by Casey@Dec 25 2004, 07:55 AM
I think Hellflame is trying to say that America is "more powerful" or something. I tend to agree, since, I believe, or army is the strongest in the world. I could be (and probably am) wrong, but oh well.

As for biggest? China (IIRC) has the worlds biggest population. They're so over-crowded, the government only allows one child per house-hold, I think.
What I was saying is in power terms and moneywise America is the biggest and greatest nation as it is the dominanantforce in the world.Sorry if that was a little unclear ^_^'

@Vampire:
True enough it was an opinion and no one is necessarily saying thats wrong but what we're doing is challenging that opinon.My challenge to you is what I said before,you don't care that the greatest nation (powerwise) is responsable for the death of 4000+ of its own people? Thats how I interpratated it and i think thats how others did aswell.And in my opinon I think if you have that kind of attitude to a form treason in your own country your a very deluded simple minded person.Also if this is a childish thread then how comes we're talking about scienctific research on how the so called plane crashed into the pentagon? If we're being childish then why are we discussing matters that effect the entire world?


Anyway I hope everyone has a very good christmas!

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Vampire+Dec 25 2004, 02:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vampire @ Dec 25 2004, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -TeMpEsT@Dec 24 2004, 10:01 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vampire@Dec 24 2004, 05:53 PM
Wow, talk about an ancient find.

Here's what's more important: who cares? it's over! If we find out what really hit us, will it make a difference? Nope. Let's move on then.
If you intend to be such a dick, stay in Random Chat.
Thanks for the flame remark which of course staff supports and let's you get away with.

It's nice to see the childish side of LPA come out on Christmas Eve of all days. I am far from surprised, especially the remarks from staff.

Seriously, some of you make the most stupidest assumptions. Because I said we should leave the subject alone, you assume I don't care about the people who died on 9/11? Right.

I swear, some of you buy anything you see on the internet. Us killing ourselves intentionally? That's just ignorant people who are mad at what happened on 9/11 because the government "couldn't prevent it "so they blame anyone they can...in this case...surprise, the government! To me, that's the people who are pathetic. Whine, whine, whine, that's all we get these days.

My point is: just leave it alone. Why bring it up to just say, "I think this person did it," ? What we should be doing is remembering those who passed away, moving on stronger, rebuilding what was destroyed. Hate to counter hate? I think not. Grow up, some of you, I beg you. The real world will not tolerate children forever. [/b][/quote]
Childish? Are you fucking kidding me? Youre the one that was banned months and months ago and had to sign up with a different name just to be a royal pain in our asses, Jawknee. Youre fucking 20 years old and you act like a little kid. Dont you dare pull that hypocritical bullshit with me. Youre treading on thin ice as it is so watch it.

Merry fucking Christmas.

[Mark]

Jawknee, if you can't stand the way staff does things here, why the hell do you keep coming back? Do you thrive on being a constant pain in the ass? Seriously, any 20 year old with any sense of maturity would move on and quit being such a nuisance. For a guy who's insulting staff, you went through drastic measures, such as an IP scrambler, to come back again! Although the IPs didn't match, your absolutely despicable attitude towards others was a dead giveaway to who you actually were. You must like the attention.

I'm sick of you, for the dozenth time. You were given chances, constant chances, but you can't seem to leave any of us alone or get along with anyone. Don't come back (although it's fruitless to ask that, of course), and learn some goddamn respect. I'll echo Nate's "Merry Christmas" and add "good riddance" as well.

TeMpEsT; if you make another thread, I'll split this one so that all the fighting is left out and you can have a thread not ruined by a jerk.