5-Year-Old 'Arrested'

[El Postwhore]

Just found this while cruisin' around...any thoughts on this one? Personally, it makes my stomach turn to think that the principal would believe that this was an appropriate step to take against a 5-year-old... :wth:


St. Louis Charter Principal Put on Leave

By CHERYL WITTENAUER
ST. LOUIS (AP) - The board of a St. Louis charter school on Wednesday placed a principal on leave after he had police handcuff a 5-year-old and drive him around the block in a squad car to curb his unruly behavior.

Principal Sam Morgan is on leave from Thurgood Marshall Academy pending an investigation into last month's incident, board attorney Wayne Harvey said.

Morgan declined to comment Wednesday, but last week said he had spent more time on the boy ``than any kid in this building, trying to steer him straight.''

He said he had police ``put the handcuffs on one arm, put him in the back seat of their car and drive him around a little bit.''

Morgan added: ``This kid is heading for the Department of Corrections at 5. He fights, strikes somebody practically every day on the bus. He's a constant disruption.''

Morgan, a longtime principal at East St. Louis High School in Illinois, also spent eight years working in the Department of Corrections.

The boy's mother, Aroni Rucker, said Wednesday her son had trouble adjusting to his first year of school and may have been disruptive, but he did nothing to warrant such treatment.

``They put handcuffs on my baby,'' Rucker said. ``That's for adults who murder and kill. He's 5. He's in kindergarten.''

Rucker said she was planning to pull the boy and her second-grader from the school at the end of the semester when Morgan told her last week that the kindergartner could not come back.

St. Louis police spokesman Richard Wilkes said the department was looking into the incident. ``Handcuffing 5-year-olds is not a practice of the department,'' he said.

The University of Missouri-St. Louis announced in August that it would end its sponsorship of the charter school, meaning the school must find a new sponsor by June or close. The university placed the school on probation twice, citing fiscal mismanagement, board corruption, poor academic performance and high turnover in leadership - seven principals in five years.

University spokesman Bob Samples, part of the sponsorship team, said only that ``it's inappropriate to handcuff a 5-year-old.''



Source (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041216%2F0001747068.htm&sc=1110)

[ChooseYourPoison]

Next thing you know they're going to outlaw dodgeball. :rolleyes:

[越南]

Sigh ... America these days..

[goso88]

[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Next thing you know they're going to outlaw dodgeball.

I hated that game.

[htep.fan]

:wth: That's sad.

God, where are the children's parents these days?

[Joe]

This is not that serious in my opinion. Okay, so the police put a piece of steel around a 5 year olds wrist and drove him around the block a couple of times, big deal. They could have done something much worse, it's not like the principal hit the kid.

The principal was just tired of the kid being such a trouble maker, so he tried to straighten him out by striking a little fear into him. Yes, it's wrong and shouldn't have been done, and yes i know there are other ways to get a child to stop being a trouble maker, but i don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Twizted]

Originally posted by Uncle_Raj@Dec 16 2004, 05:51 PM
This is not that serious in my opinion. Okay, so the police put a piece of steel around a 5 year olds wrist and drove him around the block a couple of times, big deal. They could have done something much worse, it's not like the principal hit the kid.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Link04]

Originally posted by HybridMinoda@Dec 16 2004, 09:53 PM
Next thing you know they're going to outlaw dodgeball. :rolleyes:
They have....in some school in New York and New Jersey.

[Doctor Manhattan]

It's not disturbing or sickening. It's not like they beat the kid or anything.

Oh, and my response:

BWHAHAHAHAHA

[ChooseYourPoison]

Originally posted by Casey@Dec 16 2004, 11:36 PM
It's not disturbing or sickening. It's not like they beat the kid or anything.

Oh, and my response:

BWHAHAHAHAHA
I seriously laughed out loud when I read that. :lol:

[Glenn]

Meh, the kid deserves it. I don't think it's that big of a deal, the kid needed to calm down.

[matttheskwirl14]

thats messed up

[Vampire]

There's no fucking way some asshole school/cop is going to put handcuffs on my kid just because he's a nuissance. Fuckers.

[Sylar]

Putting a kid unwillingly in handcuffs without consent of a parent or guardian, seems like too harsh of a punishment to me and borderline child abuse. The kid is fucking 5 years old for christ's sake, how much damage could the kid actually do? Kids walk around at that age and punch things all the time! There are better ways to discipline a child than putting him in fucking handcuffs.

[iamrighthereandnow]

seems to me that the principal freaked out too much. yes, the kid might be heading that way, so instead a talk with his parents who should get some parenting classes how to give a kid positive attention so he aint getting it negative way because if his parents or other carers dont notice him when he's doing good, but only when he's being bad, then of course he is gonna be bad cos thats what pays, so if they turn it round and learn new methods (i practised that when my daughter screams for attention or to get what she wants instead of asking nicely, i ignore it, when she stops i say ' thanks you stopped screaming now we can talk or whatever it works wonders) and built the kid to behave. there are rules that you dont have to scream or punish the kid in a cruel way and it works so all sides can be chilled out and happy. takes times and it aint easy, but its better then letting the kid turn into criminal at the worse and at the least letting the kid to get on peoples nerves and do their head in so they freak out on him.

[Jila]

i think it was a stupid decision. there are other, more sensible ways to handle a situation like that.

[Luke/Hellflame]

:lol: Its laughable but kinda disturbing at the same time,the kid's only 5 for f**k sake

[FreeYourMind]

Originally posted by hellflame Prophecy@Dec 18 2004, 10:07 AM
:lol: Its laughable but kinda disturbing at the same time,the kid's only 5 for f**k sake
Ye but who says 5year olds can't do any harm ?
:shifty:

[Mark]

Sometimes you have to teach lessons to kids at young ages to try and set them straight for the rest of life. If the kid's hurting others in class and won't stop, he's dangerous. He needs to be set straight. The handcuffs probably weren't necessary, but driving around in a police car and getting talked to by the big man couldn't hurt. My mom always threatened to bring my brother down to the police station because he kept getting out of his car seat while we were driving, it worked very well.

[Danielle]

Surely causing the Child a little discomfort for less than an hour is better than the same child causing trouble for the more than one person all day?

[iamrighthereandnow]

Originally posted by Mark@Dec 18 2004, 05:30 PM
Sometimes you have to teach lessons to kids at young ages to try and set them straight for the rest of life. If the kid's hurting others in class and won't stop, he's dangerous. He needs to be set straight. The handcuffs probably weren't necessary, but driving around in a police car and getting talked to by the big man couldn't hurt. My mom always threatened to bring my brother down to the police station because he kept getting out of his car seat while we were driving, it worked very well.
what works with one person might not work with the other. have you ever talked to a psychopath? they think nothing like this and police don't scare them shit. they'd tell you that they would kill the cops as well and get themselves on the front pages of newspaper. maybe this kid has a psychopathic streak already. what is there to make him feel. the question is why are psychopaths the way they are and could there be a way to make them feel? cos you and i and most others can see something hurtful and be sickened by it, they like it. it might have worked with your brother but maybe this kid is too far gone. and school and police should ask the parents for agreement first, if they don't agree with that kind of treatment.suggest parenting classes and councellor for the kid, both may be beyond normal. for normal person it may have been enough, for beginning of the psychopatic personality as this kid may be, not. most problems root in the family and most problematic families are those that pretend that there is no problem, the mom sounds just like that. just guessing, don't know the situation, but just throwing this angle in to ponder.

[Sylar]

Originally posted by Mark@Dec 18 2004, 01:30 PM
Sometimes you have to teach lessons to kids at young ages to try and set them straight for the rest of life. If the kid's hurting others in class and won't stop, he's dangerous. He needs to be set straight. The handcuffs probably weren't necessary, but driving around in a police car and getting talked to by the big man couldn't hurt. My mom always threatened to bring my brother down to the police station because he kept getting out of his car seat while we were driving, it worked very well.
Your mom threatened to take your brother to the police station because he wouldn't stay seated in the car?

I've never heard of anyone doing that...ever. Kinda odd, but if it works(threatening, not actually doing it...cuz I mean thats a harsh consequence for not staying seated in a car).

[Mark]

Originally posted by BuriedxTragedy+Dec 21 2004, 10:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BuriedxTragedy @ Dec 21 2004, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Dec 18 2004, 01:30 PM
Sometimes you have to teach lessons to kids at young ages to try and set them straight for the rest of life. If the kid's hurting others in class and won't stop, he's dangerous. He needs to be set straight. The handcuffs probably weren't necessary, but driving around in a police car and getting talked to by the big man couldn't hurt. My mom always threatened to bring my brother down to the police station because he kept getting out of his car seat while we were driving, it worked very well.
Your mom threatened to take your brother to the police station because he wouldn't stay seated in the car?

I've never heard of anyone doing that...ever. Kinda odd, but if it works(threatening, not actually doing it...cuz I mean thats a harsh consequence for not staying seated in a car). [/b][/quote]
It was an empty threat, but he didn't know that. It's not traumatizing either, it's just that children fear policemen and will obey orders from parents if threatened to be brought to the police station. This was a matter of life and death, if he didn't stop getting out of his car seat, he would've most likely been killed a few months later when we got whiplashed from behind. A good lesson learned at a young age hurts no one.

So maybe now you'll realize why it was necessary to do so. If he won't listen to my mom's orders, scare him into doing it.

Same thing here, this kids going to hurt or maybe even kill someone if he doesn't get taught a lesson. I must say that the handcuffs were excessive, though.

And iamthe..; I wouldn't be quick to diagnose a kid as a "psychopath", that's unfounded. No five year old is an evil psychopath, it's unfathomable. At a young age, their minds can still be curbed, sometimes with the little help from a scare or two (which won't traumatize them). This kind of behaviour strings from numerous things; including problems at home (such as abuse), attention wanting, and a constant feeling of inferiority, among others. You can try going into counciling and all that expensive psychotherapy babble, but why not try the easy "lesson-teaching" approach through a little scare? If it doesn't work, you can continue with all the doctors and whatnot.

I know you may not feel the same way as I do, and I think I remember you saying something about you having children. I notice why you'd be protective. You seem like a reasonable person who knows how to teach their children right from wrong, though. These parents obviously have no clue and if they're not going to be the solution, maybe the authorities and a little scaring will work.

[Glenn]

Originally posted by Mark@Dec 18 2004, 12:30 PM
Sometimes you have to teach lessons to kids at young ages to try and set them straight for the rest of life. If the kid's hurting others in class and won't stop, he's dangerous. He needs to be set straight. The handcuffs probably weren't necessary, but driving around in a police car and getting talked to by the big man couldn't hurt. My mom always threatened to bring my brother down to the police station because he kept getting out of his car seat while we were driving, it worked very well.
I agree.

[iamrighthereandnow]

i see your point Mark. nobody knows about the home situation, but as i was suggesting, i am looking at the possibility of his situation being real bad and him being beyond the reach of being able to feel empathy or remorse. kind of suggesting the extreme.
the scare may work with some, but some kids wont be scared by that even if they are the normal kind. my mum used to threaten me to take me to childrens home, i would have actually welcomed it!! anything better then my family, right?so i just got smarter at rebelion.
and a lot of that behaviour can do with boredom. i had a stint at teaching in a school, 13 year old teens with the fuck ya bitch attitude (in my country), i have a backbone so i didnt take it, but i got them occupied so much that by the end they were bringing me poems, making songs, putting a play together in English., they were happy, and learning along the way. (yeah, if i have a kid you must have kind of worked out i am not in my teens guys!kind of Chester age).
so my points briefly - parents should have been consullted, so kid experts so he would never be accused of child abuse,problem looked at deeper - why is this kid acting this way, what is he lacking that he tries to get by behaviour like that? would this scare work with him or not? would some other more confidence building approaches work.

[Sylar]

Originally posted by Mark+Dec 21 2004, 03:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Dec 21 2004, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -BuriedxTragedy@Dec 21 2004, 10:47 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Dec 18 2004, 01:30 PM
Sometimes you have to teach lessons to kids at young ages to try and set them straight for the rest of life. If the kid's hurting others in class and won't stop, he's dangerous. He needs to be set straight. The handcuffs probably weren't necessary, but driving around in a police car (http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=police%20car) and getting talked to by the big man couldn't hurt. My mom always threatened to bring my brother down to the police station because he kept getting out of his car seat (http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=car%20seat) while we were driving, it worked very well.
Your mom threatened to take your brother to the police station because he wouldn't stay seated in the car?

I've never heard of anyone doing that...ever. Kinda odd, but if it works(threatening, not actually doing it...cuz I mean thats a harsh consequence for not staying seated in a car).
It was an empty threat, but he didn't know that. It's not traumatizing either, it's just that children fear policemen and will obey orders from parents if threatened to be brought to the police station. This was a matter of life and death, if he didn't stop getting out of his car seat, he would've most likely been killed a few months later when we got whiplashed from behind. A good lesson learned at a young age hurts no one.

So maybe now you'll realize why it was necessary to do so. If he won't listen to my mom's orders, scare him into doing it.

Same thing here, this kids going to hurt or maybe even kill someone if he doesn't get taught a lesson. I must say that the handcuffs were excessive, though.

And iamthe..; I wouldn't be quick to diagnose a kid as a "psychopath", that's unfounded. No five year old is an evil psychopath, it's unfathomable. At a young age, their minds can still be curbed, sometimes with the little help from a scare or two (which won't traumatize them). This kind of behaviour strings from numerous things; including problems at home (such as abuse), attention wanting, and a constant feeling of inferiority, among others. You can try going into counciling and all that expensive psychotherapy babble, but why not try the easy "lesson-teaching" approach through a little scare? If it doesn't work, you can continue with all the doctors and whatnot.

I know you may not feel the same way as I do, and I think I remember you saying something about you having children. I notice why you'd be protective. You seem like a reasonable person who knows how to teach their children right from wrong, though. These parents obviously have no clue and if they're not going to be the solution, maybe the authorities and a little scaring will work. [/b][/quote]
yeah, An Empty Threat is fine, but actually going through with it seems a bit extreme to me.

[Kate]

Originally posted by FreeYourMind+Dec 18 2004, 05:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FreeYourMind @ Dec 18 2004, 05:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Dec 18 2004, 10:07 AM
:lol: Its laughable but kinda disturbing at the same time,the kid's only 5 for f**k sake
Ye but who says 5year olds can't do any harm ?
:shifty: [/b][/quote]
Didn't a six year old bring a gun to school and shoot and KILL a little girl a few years back?

No matter how young the kid, violence is a serious thing. While I think that the principal overstepped himself, the kid's behavior does warrant some kind of action. Maybe something like seeing a child psychologist or family therapy.

[Mark]

Originally posted by fairladykate+Dec 24 2004, 01:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fairladykate @ Dec 24 2004, 01:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -FreeYourMind@Dec 18 2004, 05:51 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Dec 18 2004, 10:07 AM
:lol:* Its laughable but kinda disturbing at the same time,the kid's only 5 for f**k sake
Ye but who says 5year olds can't do any harm ?
:shifty:
Didn't a six year old bring a gun to school and shoot and KILL a little girl a few years back?

No matter how young the kid, violence is a serious thing. While I think that the principal overstepped himself, the kid's behavior does warrant some kind of action. Maybe something like seeing a child psychologist or family therapy. [/b][/quote]
If you're talking about the one I'm thinking of, there's a huge 15 minute part in Michael Moore's "Bowling For Columbine" about that. A boys mother has to go on a bus every morning at 5am and returns late at night becuase she's part of a government-inforced welfare project. The boy is left at his uncles, finds a gun, brings it to school, and shoots the little girl in her head. Devastating story. At the end of the movie, he starts interviewing Hugh Hefner (head of NRA), and Hefner walks away and refuses to say anything once Moore brings it up. He goes inside and locks his doors. Moore leaves a picture of the little girl stood up on his front porch and walks away in tears. I believe the shooting happened in Michigan?

[Jila]

Originally posted by Mark+Dec 24 2004, 11:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Dec 24 2004, 11:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -fairladykate@Dec 24 2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by -FreeYourMind@Dec 18 2004, 05:51 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Dec 18 2004, 10:07 AM
:lol:* Its laughable but kinda disturbing at the same time,the kid's only 5 for f**k sake
Ye but who says 5year olds can't do any harm ?
:shifty:
Didn't a six year old bring a gun to school and shoot and KILL a little girl a few years back?

No matter how young the kid, violence is a serious thing. While I think that the principal overstepped himself, the kid's behavior does warrant some kind of action. Maybe something like seeing a child psychologist or family therapy.
If you're talking about the one I'm thinking of, there's a huge 15 minute part in Michael Moore's "Bowling For Columbine" about that. A boys mother has to go on a bus every morning at 5am and returns late at night becuase she's part of a government-inforced welfare project. The boy is left at his uncles, finds a gun, brings it to school, and shoots the little girl in her head. Devastating story. At the end of the movie, he starts interviewing Hugh Hefner (head of NRA), and Hefner walks away and refuses to say anything once Moore brings it up. He goes inside and locks his doors. Moore leaves a picture of the little girl stood up on his front porch and walks away in tears. I believe the shooting happened in Michigan? [/b][/quote]
ive seen bowling for columbine. i was actually thinking about that too. amazing documentary.

i liked when they did that k-mart thing.

[erasethepain]

Man, that is sad.

[Kate]

Originally posted by Mark+Dec 25 2004, 12:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Dec 25 2004, 12:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -fairladykate@Dec 24 2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by -FreeYourMind@Dec 18 2004, 05:51 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--hellflame Prophecy@Dec 18 2004, 10:07 AM
:lol:* Its laughable but kinda disturbing at the same time,the kid's only 5 for f**k sake
Ye but who says 5year olds can't do any harm ?
:shifty:
Didn't a six year old bring a gun to school and shoot and KILL a little girl a few years back?

No matter how young the kid, violence is a serious thing. While I think that the principal overstepped himself, the kid's behavior does warrant some kind of action. Maybe something like seeing a child psychologist or family therapy.
If you're talking about the one I'm thinking of, there's a huge 15 minute part in Michael Moore's "Bowling For Columbine" about that. A boys mother has to go on a bus every morning at 5am and returns late at night becuase she's part of a government-inforced welfare project. The boy is left at his uncles, finds a gun, brings it to school, and shoots the little girl in her head. Devastating story. At the end of the movie, he starts interviewing Hugh Hefner (head of NRA), and Hefner walks away and refuses to say anything once Moore brings it up. He goes inside and locks his doors. Moore leaves a picture of the little girl stood up on his front porch and walks away in tears. I believe the shooting happened in Michigan? [/b][/quote]
Yes, mostly. Detail--it wasn't Hugh Hefner, it was Charlton Heston, wasn't it?

My advanced sociology teacher my senior year had us watch Bowling For Columbine. I remember now that that particular segment had many of the class in tears. The film as a whole was something of a damper to our end-of-the-year high spirits...Columbine was a suburban high school full of well-off kids--and a few not so well off. In our after-film discussion, a lot of people seemed to think that something like that could have happened at our school, which was enough to scare anybody.

I repeat the thesis of my previous post--violence needs to be taken seriously. While responding to violence with more violence (i.e. handcuffing a rambunctious child) isn't the best way, the warning signs do need to be heeded if violence in schools is to be decreased.

[Mark]

Originally posted by fairladykate@Dec 26 2004, 12:22 AM
Yes, mostly. Detail--it wasn't Hugh Hefner, it was Charlton Heston, wasn't it?
Holy shit, how could've I made that mistake? Whoa. :lol:

[art_geek]

A bit on the subject, I'm not sure where I stand, maybe the kid deserved it. It just depends i guess on other circumstances. I remember in fifth grade, i think i was, we went on a trip to a prison and the inmates talked to us about what is was like and how we need to be on track. It had an affect on me.

[Neil]

Originally posted by Mark+Dec 26 2004, 12:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Dec 26 2004, 12:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--fairladykate@Dec 26 2004, 12:22 AM
Yes, mostly. Detail--it wasn't Hugh Hefner, it was Charlton Heston, wasn't it?
Holy shit, how could've I made that mistake? Whoa. :lol: [/b][/quote]
What were you watching at the time?

:lol: