Live Electoral Vote Tallies Here!

[Derek The Infamous]

Hello everyone, Derek here. I will be updating you all with electorial votes as they become availible. I will also be stating sources of this information.

Current Count as of 8:23PM EST

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 74 Electoral Votes.

Popular Vote

Bush: 56%
Kerry: 43%

Source: FOX News

Bush has taken South Carolina making him trail Kerry by only 3 electoral votes.

Stay tuned as more states become availible.

[Derek The Infamous]

Current Count as of 8:34PM EST

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 102 Electoral Votes.

Bush's wins for North Carolina and Virginia have pushed him to a 25 vote lead over Senator John Kerry.

Source: FOX News

[Mark]

Originally posted by Derek@Nov 2 2004, 09:58 PM
Current Count as of 8:34PM EST

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 102 Electoral Votes.

Bush's wins for North Carolina and Virginia have pushed him to a 25 vote lead over Senator John Kerry.

Source: FOX News
Care to use CNN or CBS or ABC or NBC? FOX isn't exactly very reliable.

[Leslie]

All news sources are biased in one way or another... maybe except for PBS.

[Will]

FOX is the most conservative. Very biased.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Mark+Nov 2 2004, 08:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Nov 2 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Nov 2 2004, 09:58 PM
Current Count as of 8:34PM EST

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 102 Electoral Votes.

Bush&#39;s wins for North Carolina and Virginia have pushed him to a 25 vote lead over Senator John Kerry.

Source: FOX News
Care to use CNN or CBS or ABC or NBC? FOX isn&#39;t exactly very reliable. [/b][/quote]
Current tallies according to the networks:

FOX NEWS:

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 102 Electoral Votes.

CBS:

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 108 Electoral Votes.

ABC NEWS:

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 102 Electoral Votes.

CNN:

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 102 Electoral Votes.

NBC:

Kerry: 77 Electoral Votes
Bush: 102 Electoral Votes.
==

Most channels seem to be reporting the same thing. But there are all the channel reports.

Shall I do all of them or just depend on CNN?

[User Name]

I say do all of them.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Cameron@Nov 2 2004, 08:44 PM
I say do all of them.
You&#39;re just saying that because you like to see me do all this work :P.

But yes, the minute one changes I will flip through the channels to see what they are saying.

[F-ck Casey]

so...

who&#39;s winning? I&#39;m to dumb to think it out.

[Mark]

CNN is probably your best bet.

[Will]

It&#39;s just that FOX is the most biased channel in the news. CNN is, indeed, your best bet.

[Derek The Infamous]

I&#39;ll definetely tell my parents to have CNN on over anything.

[Ander]

They need to just have a channel called "Da News" and say whose really winning, Ralph Nader. :lol:

[Derek The Infamous]

CNN Update 9:03 PM:

BUSH: 155
KERRY: 112

CNN is democratic, so if they have Bush ahead its not biased. I think I&#39;ll probably post CNN results for now on.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Derek@Nov 2 2004, 10:26 PM
CNN Update 9:03 PM:

BUSH: 155
KERRY: 112

CNN is democratic, so if they have Bush ahead its not biased. I think I&#39;ll probably CNN results for now on.
CNN isn&#39;t democratic. They&#39;re not biased on either side. In fact, they&#39;re the most unbiased news channel out there.

[User Name]

Originally posted by Derek+Nov 2 2004, 06:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Derek @ Nov 2 2004, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cameron@Nov 2 2004, 08:44 PM
I say do all of them.
You&#39;re just saying that because you like to see me do all this work :P. [/b][/quote]
Damn, you figured me out. :lol:

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Mark+Nov 2 2004, 08:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Nov 2 2004, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Nov 2 2004, 10:26 PM
CNN Update 9:03 PM:

BUSH: 155
KERRY: 112

CNN is democratic, so if they have Bush ahead its not biased. I think I&#39;ll probably CNN results for now on.
CNN isn&#39;t democratic. They&#39;re not biased on either side. In fact, they&#39;re the most unbiased news channel out there. [/b][/quote]
Thats why I&#39;m posting CNN for now on. They = not biased.

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Ander@Nov 2 2004, 06:54 PM
They need to just have a channel called "Da News" and say whose really winning, Ralph Nader. :lol:
AMEN&#33; :lol:

[RX8LP]

MSNBC reports bush ahead 156-112

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

State by state summary shows republicans doing well.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by RX8LP@Nov 2 2004, 09:10 PM
MSNBC reports bush ahead 156-112

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

State by state summary shows republicans doing well.
The CNN report already basically says that. Please leave the posting up to me, we&#39;re going by CNN reports now.

[+ / –]

Originally posted by Ander@Nov 3 2004, 01:54 AM
They need to just have a channel called "Da News" and say whose really winning, Ralph Nader. :lol:
Except Nader isn&#39;t representing the Green Party anymore. I believe it&#39;s like... I don&#39;t know. Nader isn&#39;t in the running anymore though.

Else I&#39;d vote for him.

[Derek The Infamous]

CNN Update 9:33PM:

BUSH: 170
KERRY: 112

Mississippi and Louisana have now been claimed by Bush.

[sickcycle]

go to http://www.yahoo.com for the latest and also a nice picture :lol:

[Leslie]

Originally posted by sickcycle@Nov 2 2004, 07:29 PM
go to http://www.yahoo.com for the latest and also a nice picture :lol:
OOH&#33; Pictures&#33; I need those because I&#39;m a visual learner. ;)

[Derek The Infamous]

Update may be coming soon. It appears that Kerry has taken/is going to take NY and Bush is slowly catching up in Pennslyvania.

[Will]

Kerry took NY 45 minutes ago. :lol:

[Derek The Infamous]

Not much of a change but as of 9:54PM CNN reports:

BUSH: 171
KERRY: 112

The one vote increase is in response to Bush winning all of Nebraska&#39;s electorial votes. (Hey I promised LIVE results).

Keep in mind they still need to count absentee ballots and other votes so this election is FAR from over. This thread is merely to serve as an estimate for who might be the winner.

[sickcycle]

I added up all the states for Kerry that he has won, and that look to go in his favor, CA being one of them, and his score would be around 263, bush i did his, and his score is about 10 higher, if all goes like it is right now, Bush will edge out to be the victor

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by sickcycle@Nov 2 2004, 10:58 PM
I added up all the states for Kerry that he has won, and that look to go in his favor, CA being one of them, and his score would be around 263, bush i did his, and his score is about 10 higher, if all goes like it is right now, Bush will edge out to be the victor
I think you&#39;re probably right.

[Derek The Infamous]

I am aware that Bush&#39;s totals have jumped up to 176, but I&#39;m not going to update until California&#39;s polls close, which is at 11PM.

Unless a drastic change happens before then, the stats will be stopped for now.

[Derek The Infamous]

Well here&#39;s that drastic change I mentioned.

ABC has bush up to 192, and CNN states 182 for Bush.

Kerry is still at 112.

CNN NOW SAYS 193 FOR BUSH

[sickcycle]

check yahoo.com and look at the indivigual states, what states seem to lean in for bush by being a pink color, and what ones kerry wil win, obviously kerry will rampage through CA with almost all of hollywood backing him, but add that to his score, and the rest of the states that arnt acounted for, the ones in the gray, asume he wins all the gray ones, and add it up, it comes to 248, now add bushes ones in pink, and assume he looses all the ones in gray, the ones in pink added to his score come sto 88, add that to the 195, and you have 283, bush looks like he will win if this keep up

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by sickcycle@Nov 2 2004, 10:25 PM
check yahoo.com and look at the indivigual states, what states seem to lean in for bush by being a pink color, and what ones kerry wil win, obviously kerry will rampage through CA with almost all of hollywood backing him, but add that to his score, and the rest of the states that arnt acounted for, the ones in the gray, asume he wins all the gray ones, and add it up, it comes to 248, now add bushes ones in pink, and assume he looses all the ones in gray, the ones in pink added to his score come sto 88, add that to the 195, and you have 283, bush looks like he will win if this keep up
I think we should wait until 11PM ;).

Several states close (including the big state of California) and the statistics will be updated.

[Ander]

Originally posted by sickcycle@Nov 2 2004, 07:25 PM
obviously kerry will rampage through CA with almost all of hollywood backing him
Yeah. The few people who&#39;ve spoken against him in the media will decide for the entire state of California. That&#39;s my kind of electoral college.

[Todd]

If bush wins, America is fucked

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Todd@Nov 2 2004, 10:37 PM
If bush wins, America is fucked
Part of me wants Kerry to get elected and fuck up hardcore so I can smile at people who say shit like that.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Derek+Nov 2 2004, 09:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Derek @ Nov 2 2004, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Todd@Nov 2 2004, 10:37 PM
If bush wins, America is fucked
Part of me wants Kerry to get elected and fuck up hardcore so I can smile at people who say shit like that. [/b][/quote]
Your hardcore fuckup you&#39;ve been wanting has been running this country for the past 4 years

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Derek+Nov 2 2004, 11:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Derek @ Nov 2 2004, 11:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Todd@Nov 2 2004, 10:37 PM
If bush wins, America is fucked
Part of me wants Kerry to get elected and fuck up hardcore so I can smile at people who say shit like that. [/b][/quote]
It&#39;s really funny to see the words "fuck" and "hardcore" in a sentance that has nothing to do with sex.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Todd+Nov 2 2004, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 2 2004, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Derek@Nov 2 2004, 09:39 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Todd@Nov 2 2004, 10:37 PM
If bush wins, America is fucked
Part of me wants Kerry to get elected and fuck up hardcore so I can smile at people who say shit like that.
Your hardcore fuckup you&#39;ve been wanting has been running this country for the past 4 years [/b][/quote]
I was running an UNBIASED thread and you had to come in and make an ignorant comment like that. Why I don&#39;t know.

Either way, updates coming in a few minutes. Kerry took PA so he is now up to 133. I&#39;m waiting on the other states to post.

[Derek The Infamous]

Current tallies as of 11:00 PM on CNN

Bush: 197
Kerry: 188

Kerry took PA and Cali making him have 188. Bush took Idaho giving him 4.

Once again, a close election.

[F-ck Casey]

2000 = 2004

[Derek The Infamous]

CNN has NOT updated (they are too busy talking like idiots) but CBS says:

Bush: 219
Kerry: 199

I am researching who won what right now.

[Omar]

It seems Kerry is really coming back with California. However, I&#39;m not surprised Schwartzenegger didn&#39;t make an impression :lol: Ohio will be pivotal for either candidate to really take a sizable lead against the other states.

And just for the record: I hold no animosity to those that prefer Bush, and I don&#39;t necessarily love Kerry either, but the fact that Bush discriminated my race really discredited him big-time in my book.

[F-ck Casey]

WOOO.

NADER IS ON CNN. WOOO.

(w00t)

NADER NADER NADER NADER


What?

[Today After Tomorrow]

Good thread Derek.

Come on KERRY&#33;

[eXess7]

Bush is going to win. 92% of Florida is in and Bush has 5% on Kerry. Ohio is only 54% in, but Bush is leading there as well by 4%. Bush is even leading New Mexico and he&#39;s not even supposed to win there.

Here&#39;s to another four ;) .

[Today After Tomorrow]

Originally posted by eXess7@Nov 3 2004, 04:19 AM


Here&#39;s to another four
..wars

[F-ck Casey]

Can I kill this troll?

[Joe]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 05:26 AM
Can I kill this troll?
If you mean the spaz talking to the panel on CNN, then yes, please do.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Today After Tomorrow@Nov 2 2004, 11:18 PM
Good thread Derek.

Come on KERRY&#33;
Okay I dont get it. CBS updated their tallies a while back yet CNN still hasnt changed them. Odd.

More tallies coming soon..

[Today After Tomorrow]

Originally posted by Derek+Nov 3 2004, 04:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Derek @ Nov 3 2004, 04:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Today After Tomorrow@Nov 2 2004, 11:18 PM
Good thread Derek.

Come on KERRY&#33;
Okay I dont get it. CBS updated their tallies a while back yet CNN still hasnt changed them. Odd.

More tallies coming soon.. [/b][/quote]
I think CNN is being very careful not to predict something wrong. They&#39;re making absolutly sure that what they predict is correct.

[F-ck Casey]

That&#39;s because God (Nader) was talking to them.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Today After Tomorrow+Nov 2 2004, 11:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Today After Tomorrow @ Nov 2 2004, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--eXess7@Nov 3 2004, 04:19 AM


Here&#39;s to another four
..wars [/b][/quote]
Please keep your comments like that to yourself. You&#39;re allowed to cheer your candidate on, but I want this to be a NICE thread. I want it to be unbiased and non-antagonizing towards either party, as this is the only time when people with conflicting views can get together without wanting to shoot their opponents head off.

So please, lets keep this thread nice. That applies to moderators/admins and everything, have some respect for the other party and lets not make nasty remarks.

[eXess7]

Originally posted by Derek+Nov 2 2004, 09:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Derek @ Nov 2 2004, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Today After Tomorrow@Nov 2 2004, 11:18 PM
Good thread Derek.

Come on KERRY&#33;
Okay I dont get it. CBS updated their tallies a while back yet CNN still hasnt changed them. Odd.

More tallies coming soon.. [/b][/quote]
Why would CNN report anything Pro-Bush? If Bush wins they won&#39;t even cover the rest of the election, they&#39;d just say something went wrong in the voting process and lawsuits are being filed to fix the problem.

JK, kinda. I bet theres a good reason they aren&#39;t posting results.

[sickcycle]

update on my math, while looking at the map, Bush has 210 and Kerry 199 [yahoo.com]. Add up all the states that are light blue, the ones that are mostlikely going to Kerry, and put those in the score, it comes to 50, then add up the gray states for kerry, those states have yet to say whether they lean toward Bush or Kerry, but lets assume they all go for kerry, that would ALk and HW adding up to be 7, now add 50+7+199=256 now lets do bushes score...

Bush has 210, and lets add the pink states, the ones that are leaning towards Bush, it hapeneds to be 71 in all, now add that to the score and you come up with 71+210=281, and thats saying Bush wins none of the gray states, so it looks like a Bush win

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by eXess7+Nov 2 2004, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (eXess7 @ Nov 2 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Derek@Nov 2 2004, 09:28 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Today After Tomorrow@Nov 2 2004, 11:18 PM
Good thread Derek.

Come on KERRY&#33;
Okay I dont get it. CBS updated their tallies a while back yet CNN still hasnt changed them. Odd.

More tallies coming soon..
Why would CNN report anything Pro-Bush? If Bush wins they won&#39;t even cover the rest of the election, they&#39;d just say something went wrong in the voting process and lawsuits are being filed to fix the problem.

JK, kinda. I bet theres a good reason they aren&#39;t posting results. [/b][/quote]
They&#39;re supposed to be unbiased and they have Bush in the lead. I&#39;m sick of watching them not change...*flips channel*

Apparentely, Bush has taken Florida though. It brings his totals to:

Bush: 246
Kerry: 199

This information is from CBS News.

[F-ck Casey]

aaaand Bush wins. :P

[eXess7]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 2 2004, 09:44 PM
aaaand Bush wins. :P
Affermative.

FL and OH clinched it. There&#39;s about to be riots here on campus; like most colleges everyone here is as liberal as they come.

[F-ck Casey]

I have the sudden urge to dance.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 12:44 AM
aaaand Bush wins. :P
Yup.

Now that it&#39;s pretty clear (okay, it was always kinda clear from various newspaper polls) who&#39;s winning I&#39;m gonna get to bed. Night all.

[Will]

Originally posted by eXess7@Nov 3 2004, 12:52 AM
FL and OH clinched it.
Bush hasn&#39;t taken Ohio yet.

[Ander]

He&#39;s in the lead though.

[F-ck Casey]

Only good thing I could see coming out of a Kerry win tonight, is McCain running in 2008.

[Ander]

Only bad thing I could see coming out of a Bush win tonight, is Cheney running in 2008.


Besides next year, the year after that, the year after that, and the year after that. :lol:

[F-ck Casey]

Bush takes Florida&#33;

[Derek The Infamous]

CBS update as of 12:10AM

Bush - 246
Kerry - 207

This race just wont stay distant.

[Todd]

Its all gonna come down to Ohio, hopefully Kerry can pull ahead

[Will]

Ohio is usually (and historically) one of the last states to turn in their electoral votes. But if Kerry doesn&#39;t win Ohio, he stands no chance.

[Ander]

Originally posted by Derek@Nov 2 2004, 09:04 PM
This race just wont stay distant.
Bias. :whistle:

[F-ck Casey]

CNN said he&#39;d have to win a shitload of mid-west states if Bush took Ohio.

I think.

[eXess7]

Originally posted by Ander+Nov 2 2004, 10:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ander @ Nov 2 2004, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Nov 2 2004, 09:04 PM
This race just wont stay distant.
Bias. :whistle: [/b][/quote]
If anything, "This race just wont stay distant." is a Pro-Kerry claim (that is likely to be true) from a person who supports Bush. Therefore unbias.

[Ander]

Originally posted by eXess7+Nov 2 2004, 09:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (eXess7 @ Nov 2 2004, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Ander@Nov 2 2004, 10:08 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Nov 2 2004, 09:04 PM
This race just wont stay distant.
Bias. :whistle:
If anything, "This race just wont stay distant." is a Pro-Kerry claim (that is likely to be true) from a person who supports Bush. Therefore unbias. [/b][/quote]
Umm, Kerry is behind. The last thing pro-Kerry people want is George Bush with a distant lead. Bias.

[Will]

Arguing about it won&#39;t get anyone anywhere.

[Ander]

Ok ok I&#39;ll shut up.

[F-ck Casey]

aaand Bush gets Colorado & Montana.

[Will]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 01:19 AM
aaand Bush gets Colorado & Montana.
:wth: Bush has had those states for a looooong time.

[F-ck Casey]

They just announced it.

[eXess7]

Agreed.

I sure hope this election ends tonight; I don&#39;t want to wait a month to find out who the president is.

[Will]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 01:20 AM
They just announced it.
I have no idea what you&#39;re watching. They even announced it on CNN at least an hour ago, and CNN has been behind. BEEEHIIIIIIND. Like, they might as well stop covering. :lol:

[F-ck Casey]

The hell?

I&#39;m watching CNN right now and they just announced it.

EDIT: It&#39;s probably because they were talking to Nader & Obama

[Will]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 01:22 AM
The hell?

I&#39;m watching CNN right now and they just announced it.
Well, they had it online quite a while ago.

[F-ck Casey]

See my edit.

CNN has been talking to everyone and their mother tonight. Fuck, Nader could have won the election, and they would probably just now announce it.

[Will]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 01:24 AM
See my edit.

CNN has been talking to everyone and their mother tonight. Fuck, Nader could have won the election, and they would probably just now announce it.
Yeah, they&#39;re really slow, even online. They JUST NOW edited that Bush won Florida, and that happened a while ago, too.

[F-ck Casey]

Word.

Someone should tell me when this shit is over with. I have school tomorrow.

I don&#39;t want to be sitting here watching CNN if they&#39;re behind like people say.

[Will]

Change it to CBS, for now. CNN is so far behind.

[F-ck Casey]

shit, what the fuck? I don&#39;t want to hear about the Senate.

Anderson Cooper made it more interesting.

[finaldude14]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 12:27 AM
shit, what the fuck? I don&#39;t want to hear about the Senate.

Anderson Cooper made it more interesting.
Casey your sig if f-in awsome.

Anyways its gonna be close. as said before if kerry doesnt get ohio hes in trouble

[Will]

I&#39;m going to bed. Make sure no one has a recount until I wake up. :lol:

[Ander]

Someone just said Bush won Ohio.

[F-ck Casey]

CBS & CNN mentioned nothing about Ohio..

EDIT: Fox called it.

[Evil Angel]

Hey Rohan here,
Latest Figures @ 11:25 AM Indian Standard Time[dunnon the time in the U.S]-

CNN
BUSH- 246
KERRY- 195

CNBC
BUSH- 246
KERRY- 207

DUNNO ABOUT FOX WE DON&#39;T GET IT IN INDIA

[Ander]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 2 2004, 09:41 PM
EDIT: Fox called it.
:lol: Nevermind. We&#39;re in the clear.

[F-ck Casey]

apparently MSNBC has Kerry barely ahead in Ohio.

[Derek The Infamous]

Fox, and several other channels are reporting a win by Bush with 269 electoral votes. Apparentely Bush is winning the popular vote as well.

Kerry could still tie this election however, which would mean that the presidental election would be determined in the house.

The party to determine the president however is Republican while the vice presidental one is democratic. So therefore we&#39;d have a republican president and a democratic vice president in the event of a tie.

Overall this was a close election.

[sickcycle]

Originally posted by Derek@Nov 3 2004, 06:10 AM
Fox, and several other channels are reporting a win by Bush with 269 electoral votes. Apparentely Bush is winning the popular vote as well.

Kerry could still tie this election however, which would mean that the presidental election would be determined in the house.

The party to determine the president however is Republican while the vice presidental one is democratic. So therefore we&#39;d have a republican president and a democratic vice president in the event of a tie.

Overall this was a close election.
which hasnt hapened since early start of the US&#33; well goodnight, time for bed, i mean, goodmorning B)

[Today After Tomorrow]

Originally posted by Derek@Nov 3 2004, 06:10 AM
Fox, and several other channels are reporting a win by Bush with 269 electoral votes. Apparentely Bush is winning the popular vote as well.

Kerry could still tie this election however, which would mean that the presidental election would be determined in the house.

The party to determine the president however is Republican while the vice presidental one is democratic. So therefore we&#39;d have a republican president and a democratic vice president in the event of a tie.

Overall this was a close election.
Is that possible? I&#39;ve never heard anything like that.

What would Bush do without Cheney? :wth:

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Today After Tomorrow+Nov 3 2004, 01:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Today After Tomorrow @ Nov 3 2004, 01:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Nov 3 2004, 06:10 AM
Fox, and several other channels are reporting a win by Bush with 269 electoral votes. Apparentely Bush is winning the popular vote as well.

Kerry could still tie this election however, which would mean that the presidental election would be determined in the house.

The party to determine the president however is Republican while the vice presidental one is democratic. So therefore we&#39;d have a republican president and a democratic vice president in the event of a tie.

Overall this was a close election.
Is that possible? I&#39;ve never heard anything like that.

What would Bush do without Cheney? :wth: [/b][/quote]
It&#39;s absolutely possible. When a tie happens the decisions for candidates are out of our hands and go into the house.

Thing is, some dumb fucks decided to put presidental control in the republicans&#39; hands and vice-presidental in the democrats&#39; hands. So therefore, naturally republicans arent going to want Kerry and democrats are going to shoot themselves before electing Cheney so it leads to a republican president with a democratic vice-president.

Never happened before (unless sickcycle is right but I dunno) but it CAN and could very likely happen.

[Mr. Benzedrine]

Yup, It looks like bush is gonna win right enough ;), This is fucking shit , If i was able to vote (and lived in america) my whole family would be voting for Kerry, This affects Britain aswell, FUCCKKK

[Today After Tomorrow]

No one canidate is set to win yet. Currently it&#39;s BUSH: 249, KERRY: 242. My guess is it&#39;s going to come down to Ohio. Whoever wins Ohio wins the presidency. The only problem is the vote in Ohio is only seperated by about 120,000 votes and there are still several hundred thousand provisional ballots that need to be counted but can not be counted for another 11 days(some stupid law). So I don&#39;t think we&#39;ll officially know untill then.

Even though Bush is currently in the lead, I still say Kerry will take Ohio and the presidency. The Democrats are already working to make sure every vote in Ohio is counted to ensure everything is fair and I think once every vote is counted, Kerry will come out the winner.

[Anthony.]

F_CK.

[Unforgiver]

damn it, other 11 more days?&#33; :angry:

[Todd]

Originally posted by Today After Tomorrow@Nov 3 2004, 01:54 AM
Even though Bush is currently in the lead, I still say Kerry will take Ohio and the presidency. The Democrats are already working to make sure every vote in Ohio is counted to ensure everything is fair and I think once every vote is counted, Kerry will come out the winner.
Unfortunatley, don&#39;t get your hopes up :( Last time I looked Kerry was trailing by a couple million votes. So it looks like 4 more years of hell for the US

[Neil]

I&#39;m thinking Bush is going to win. XD

[Chris(tmas)]

I heard that Bush is 255 and Kerry 253 (or something that close). Its all about Ohio :o






Why in the hell am i here? Im freaking dutch&#33;

[Shade]

Kerry concedes... MSNBC news source.

Boy I hope Bush proves me wrong.

[Derek The Infamous]

It&#39;s official, a few hours ago Kerry contacted the president to announce his concession from the 2004 Presidential Race. Sources state that Kerry will make his public announcement of this around 1-1:30PM EST.

Bush is set to hold a press conference around 3PM EST. Both times may vary.

[Nikki]

What happenned, America? What the fuck happenned?

[Todd]

Originally posted by Derek@Nov 3 2004, 10:24 AM
It&#39;s official, a few hours ago Kerry contacted the president to announce his concession from the 2004 Presidential Race. Sources state that Kerry will make his public announcement of this around 1-1:30PM EST.

Bush is set to hold a press conference around 3PM EST. Both times may vary.
A tragic loss for America indeed.


4 more years of hell

[sickcycle]

Originally posted by Todd+Nov 3 2004, 04:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 3 2004, 04:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Nov 3 2004, 10:24 AM
It&#39;s official, a few hours ago Kerry contacted the president to announce his concession from the 2004 Presidential Race. Sources state that Kerry will make his public announcement of this around 1-1:30PM EST.

Bush is set to hold a press conference around 3PM EST. Both times may vary.
A tragic loss for America indeed.


4 more years of hell [/b][/quote]
maybe not, you never know, he may do very well, its too early to tell what he will do in the next four years, have hope, faith, or whatever

[Shade]

I honestly can&#39;t believe there are 50 million people out there that still support Bush...it blows my mind away. Europe is starting to look like a great place to live.

Like I said...prove me wrong Bush.

[sickcycle]

Originally posted by Shade@Nov 3 2004, 04:44 PM
I honestly can&#39;t believe there are 50 million people out there that still support Bush...it blows my mind away. Europe is starting to look like a great place to live.

Like I said...prove me wrong Bush.
Lets hope he does, like they say, "Dont through the baby out with the bath water", lets just wait and see

[Mr. Benzedrine]

Fuck :mellow:

[Cassie]

Originally posted by Lostprophet@Nov 3 2004, 12:10 PM
Fuck :mellow:
You practically summed up the majority of my thoughts. :&#092;

[Kate]

Originally posted by Todd+Nov 3 2004, 10:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 3 2004, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Nov 3 2004, 10:24 AM
It&#39;s official, a few hours ago Kerry contacted the president to announce his concession from the 2004 Presidential Race. Sources state that Kerry will make his public announcement of this around 1-1:30PM EST.

Bush is set to hold a press conference around 3PM EST. Both times may vary.
A tragic loss for America indeed.


4 more years of hell [/b][/quote]
Let&#39;s attempt to look on the bright side--four more years of anti-Bush jokes.

[Neil]

Bush won, yay&#33; :lol:

Now&#39;s his chance to be smart. Kerry was a pussy anyway :P

[Nikki]

Urge to destroy. Rising.

[Shade]

Originally posted by Nikki@Nov 3 2004, 06:11 PM
Urge to destroy. Rising.
My sentiments exactly.

I&#39;m so pissed right now. What&#39;s infuriating about all of this is that I can&#39;t blame the candidate. It&#39;s the people who voted and they chose Bush. I cannot fathom this. I can&#39;t believe this happened. I was so certain Bush had managed to do himself in, and yet here we are again.

No wonder people bash democrats, apparently we can&#39;t win elections anymore.

Maybe I&#39;m just insane. Apparently the majority of voting America disagrees with everything I&#39;ve said on these boards and in person. Apparently, the future of America is to be placed in the hands of Bush and people like him. If this is what we&#39;ve evolved to, America does not mean what I thought it meant.

[Mark]

This is so fucking terrible.

The democratic voters didn&#39;t get it done. That&#39;s all. But this is so freaking ridiculous. I am annoyed as hell.

But I guess I can only smile now as the economy continues to plunge, our canadian dollar continues to rise, and the muslim-faith world gets more pissed at the US. This is America&#39;s own doing, and I won&#39;t feel bad about their failures anymore, they brought it on themselves. Absolute ridiculousness. I am very disappointed. I have never been more embarassed to be attached to the godforsaken place.

[Maëlle]

Oh God, I don&#39;t even wanna know what&#39;ll happen now that he&#39;s back. Bush was mad at Mister Chrétien for not going with him in Irak, there&#39;s this whole anti-missile thing going on and the wood problem too. And, as I read this morning, he had little consideration for Canada the first four years, he&#39;ll have even less now.










Suddenly, I have the bad impression that the relation Canada-USA aren&#39;t going to be cute to see.

[Omar A]

Originally posted by Mark@Nov 3 2004, 01:53 PM
This is so fucking terrible.

The democratic voters didn&#39;t get it done. That&#39;s all. But this is so freaking ridiculous. I am annoyed as hell.

But I guess I can only smile now as the economy continues to plunge, our canadian dollar continues to rise, and the muslim-faith world gets more pissed at the US. This is America&#39;s own doing, and I won&#39;t feel bad about their failures anymore, they brought it on themselves. Absolute ridiculousness. I am very disappointed. I have never been more embarassed to be attached to the godforsaken place.
Yup. I agree totally.

[Link04]

I actually put some blame on the Democratic party for not providing a suitable candidate to unseat what SHOULD have been one of the most easily defeatable presidents of our history. Over half of our nation wanted out of Iraq, simply, if they picked a more anti-war candidate, things may have been different.

[Alacrity]

America is fucked. I am not kidding when I say this; I fear for the lives of any person between the ages of 18 and 26 and I am in fear for my country.


Thank you all George W Bush voters, my nightmare is now a reality.

[Dedicated]

I couldn&#39;t believe it when I heard it... What the hell is going on? If he was chosen by God, then so was I... :mellow:


















:mellow:

[Todd]

Originally posted by Link04@Nov 3 2004, 02:31 PM
I actually put some blame on the Democratic party for not providing a suitable candidate to unseat what SHOULD have been one of the most easily defeatable presidents of our history. Over half of our nation wanted out of Iraq, simply, if they picked a more anti-war candidate, things may have been different.
You can&#39;t get much more anti-war then Kerry. The problem is, no president, no matter how anti-war, would just yank every single American out of Iraq the day they&#39;re inagurated. Because if that happened, the US would be abandoning their mess and leaving the rest of the world to be janitor and clean it up. Problem with that is, the rest of the world is already turning against the US, if you leave them to clean up the mess, then they&#39;ll just hate us and possibly break ties with the US. The ideal plan is to reunite our allies again and all work together to create a stable government in Iraq and slowly pull foreign troops out.



For all the people that voted for bush, when they lose their jobs, their tax rate gets jacked up and they feel the pain of a shitty economy, they deserve it. I&#39;ll have absolutley no sympathy for them. You made your bed, you&#39;ll lie in it. When your rights get violated because of the patriot act, I&#39;ll laugh my ass off to the point where I almost die laughing. When you get shipped off to fight in one of the several wars up ahead in the next 4 years, remember that it was your choice at the polls on November 2nd, 2004 that put you there. And when you come back to the states missing an arm or leg, don&#39;t expect much sympathy from me because you reap what you sow.

[Will]

I feel ashamed to live in Ohio.

[1200techniques]

hmm, well this was the president you guys voted for

(1)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/gunshotbeauty/smartbush.jpg

(2)
http://dhruv.homeunix.net/bush/Bush2.jpg

i really wish you all the best of luck

[Canadian Joe]

Originally posted by Alacrity@Nov 3 2004, 04:07 PM
America is fucked. I am not kidding when I say this; I fear for the lives of any person between the ages of 18 and 26 and I am in fear for my country.


Thank you all George W Bush voters, my nightmare is now a reality.
Move to Canada... We&#39;re friendly up here, eh? :hugz:

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Todd@Nov 3 2004, 04:22 PM
You can&#39;t get much more anti-war then Kerry.
I dont intend to throw gasoline on the fire but that claim is bunch of bullshit. Back when Dean (who I was originally going to vote for before Bush) opposed the war, he was criticized for it and because of it lost his chance at the election. When Dean OPPOSED THE WAR, Kerry was absolutely for it claiming that Saddam Hussein was a threat and that there was no reason why we shouldn&#39;t invade Iraq. Only when things started to go downhill in Iraq did he change his stance on the war.

Documented VIDEO PROOF is at www.kerryoniraq.com, it shows Kerry thinking Bush had every right to make his decision and saying he was going to help fund our troops, then making a complete turn around on what he believed. Had they put Dean as Bush&#39;s opponent, Bush would&#39;ve been in trouble. Heck even I was gonna vote for Dean and you know how passionate I am towards Dubya.

They didn&#39;t give their best candidate because they want Hillary to run in 2008. Bottom line.

[1200techniques]

whatever the reason kerry is better than bush

You people have a dumbass ruling your country

[Will]

Originally posted by Derek@Nov 3 2004, 05:58 PM
They didn&#39;t give their best candidate because they want Hillary to run in 2008. Bottom line.
That&#39;s the stupidest thing I&#39;ve ever heard of. Even if Kerry won she would&#39;ve ran in 2008.

[1200techniques]

at least its his last term

[Todd]

Wow, talk about uninformed.

The democrats didn&#39;t give their best canidate because Kerry is who the people voted for in the primaries.

[Omar]

Originally posted by Will@Nov 3 2004, 03:52 PM
I feel ashamed to live in Ohio.
I&#39;m ashamed I live in Texas.

Something I noticed (and this is just me so don&#39;t bite my head off): it seems celebrities and generally younger Americans, and higher institutions of learning all voted Kerry.

My dad had said that all the smart people voted Kerry. If that&#39;s true, 51% of country is not too bright. I have to agree on the whole with that, a lot of people in Texas put him on their ballot simply because he&#39;s a Texan.)

Again, just my opinion.

[User Name]

I perfer to see all of this differently. Yes, your country is going to be crap, but let&#39;s think of some of the positives to this. We get:

- Four more years of politically motivated music
- More Rock Against Bush albums
- Yellowcard relinquishing their American citizenship and becoming Canadians

Best luck to all of you in the next four years.

[Will]

Originally posted by Cameron@Nov 3 2004, 07:52 PM
I perfer to see all of this differently. Yes, your country is going to be crap, but let&#39;s think of some of the positives to this. We get:

- Four more years of politically motivated music
- More Rock Against Bush albums
- Yellowcard relinquishing their American citizenship and becoming Canadians

Best luck to all of you in the next four years.
:lol:

Ah, Cameron. :lol:

[goso88]

Oh my God. Eight years of Bush. Thats just way too much of my life :(

[Neil]

Originally posted by 1200techniques@Nov 3 2004, 04:58 PM
hmm, well this was the president you guys voted for

(1)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/gunshotbeauty/smartbush.jpg

(2)
http://dhruv.homeunix.net/bush/Bush2.jpg

i really wish you all the best of luck
The first picture is obviously a set up. And the second picture was deemed to be fake.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Cameron@Nov 3 2004, 05:52 PM
- More Rock Against Bush albums
People actually thought that mindless tripe was good?

I admit I bought it, but damn, I thought it sucked. Some songs on there seemed like they didn&#39;t have any reason to be on there.

[User Name]

I thought I&#39;d throw that in for kicks.

[F-ck Casey]

...

Oh.

:blush:

EDIT: I was really looking forward to Rock Against Kerry, actually. Damn Bush. :angry:

[Chris(tmas)]

Originally posted by Cameron@Nov 4 2004, 12:52 AM
I perfer to see all of this differently. Yes, your country is going to be crap, but let&#39;s think of some of the positives to this. We get:

- Four more years of politically motivated music
- More Rock Against Bush albums
- Yellowcard relinquishing their American citizenship and becoming Canadians

Best luck to all of you in the next four years.
- And more Bush-jokes :whistles:

[adelleda]

Originally posted by Mark@Nov 3 2004, 01:53 PM
But I guess I can only smile now as the economy continues to plunge, our canadian dollar continues to rise, and the muslim-faith world gets more pissed at the US. This is America&#39;s own doing, and I won&#39;t feel bad about their failures anymore, they brought it on themselves. Absolute ridiculousness. I am very disappointed. I have never been more embarassed to be attached to the godforsaken place.
I can&#39;t agree any more...






2008 VOTE GENE SIMMONS

[Whimsicality]

Alacrity-I don&#39;t see how Bush specifically makes life miserable for those between 18 and 26 as he has publicly stated there will be no draft while he is president.

Link-I agree, Kerry was a terrible canidate right from the get go. Out of all the democrats who ran the fact that he was voted in as the democratic canidate is a bit sad.

1200techniques-that photo is a fake, go towww.snopes.com (http://snopes.com/photos/bushbook.asp) for more info.

[F-ck Casey]

You know who would be the perfect Democratic canidates?

Barack Obama/Howard Dean.

That&#39;s a lethal team right there.

[1200techniques]

Originally posted by twicethetrouble@Nov 4 2004, 12:51 AM
Alacrity-I don&#39;t see how Bush specifically makes life miserable for those between 18 and 26 as he has publicly stated there will be no draft while he is president.

Link-I agree, Kerry was a terrible canidate right from the get go. Out of all the democrats who ran the fact that he was voted in as the democratic canidate is a bit sad.

1200techniques-that photo is a fake, go towww.snopes.com (http://snopes.com/photos/bushbook.asp) for more info.
what really makes me laugh is the fact that you can only pick on the flaws of the democratic supporters but you cant say anything about ur lovely president

like a defense lawyer, steering clear from the important issues and throwing rocks over insignificant shit

[F-ck Casey]

Let me ask you something.

Can you say anything negative about John Kerry? Or is it just that you can pick at the Republicans & George Bush, but you can&#39;t admit the own flaws of &#39;ur&#39; lovely Presidental hopefull.

If you&#39;ve already pointed out his flaws, I apologize in advance. But I highly doubt you have anyways.

[Glenn]

Now I have another reason to hate America, my own country. Too many damn people voting for Bush...

My parents (liberal) say that even though I hate this idiot, I should respect his authority. Yeah right... :angry:

Bush is an ass...

[Link04]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 4 2004, 12:54 AM
You know who would be the perfect Democratic canidates?

Barack Obama/Howard Dean.

That&#39;s a lethal team right there.
Man, hell yea. I&#39;ve read up on Obama...from Illinois, right? Definitely, he&#39;s making quite a noise over there.

And 12000, like a defense lawyer, she was actually using some sort of logic :rolleyes: relax.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by 1200techniques+Nov 3 2004, 09:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (1200techniques @ Nov 3 2004, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--twicethetrouble@Nov 4 2004, 12:51 AM
Alacrity-I don&#39;t see how Bush specifically makes life miserable for those between 18 and 26 as he has publicly stated there will be no draft while he is president.

Link-I agree, Kerry was a terrible canidate right from the get go. Out of all the democrats who ran the fact that he was voted in as the democratic canidate is a bit sad.

1200techniques-that photo is a fake, go towww.snopes.com (http://snopes.com/photos/bushbook.asp) for more info.
what really makes me laugh is the fact that you can only pick on the flaws of the democratic supporters but you cant say anything about ur lovely president

like a defense lawyer, steering clear from the important issues and throwing rocks over insignificant shit [/b][/quote]
Oh my. What makes me laugh is that you think my teeny little post sums up my opinion of the current presidential canidates. I have stated many times that I&#39;m no Bush fan. Changing the constitution to ban gay marriage is bushit (sorry, meant bullshit), the No Child Left Behind act is even bigger bullshit, he obviously had no plan for stabilizing Iraq...but you know I really don&#39;t need to say any of this because Todd, Will and co. have the Bush Bashing covered. When I see something said that I think has been disproved, I&#39;m going to point it out. I hope people would do the same to my posts as a productive discussion cannot take place when fake facts are being thrown in.

I will use Casey&#39;s wonderful anology here and say that choosing between Bush and Kerry is like choosing between shit and crap.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Todd+Nov 3 2004, 09:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 3 2004, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Nov 3 2004, 02:31 PM
I actually put some blame on the Democratic party for not providing a suitable candidate to unseat what SHOULD have been one of the most easily defeatable presidents of our history. Over half of our nation wanted out of Iraq, simply, if they picked a more anti-war candidate, things may have been different.
You can&#39;t get much more anti-war then Kerry. The problem is, no president, no matter how anti-war, would just yank every single American out of Iraq the day they&#39;re inagurated. Because if that happened, the US would be abandoning their mess and leaving the rest of the world to be janitor and clean it up. Problem with that is, the rest of the world is already turning against the US, if you leave them to clean up the mess, then they&#39;ll just hate us and possibly break ties with the US. The ideal plan is to reunite our allies again and all work together to create a stable government in Iraq and slowly pull foreign troops out.



For all the people that voted for bush, when they lose their jobs, their tax rate gets jacked up and they feel the pain of a shitty economy, they deserve it. I&#39;ll have absolutley no sympathy for them. You made your bed, you&#39;ll lie in it. When your rights get violated because of the patriot act, I&#39;ll laugh my ass off to the point where I almost die laughing. When you get shipped off to fight in one of the several wars up ahead in the next 4 years, remember that it was your choice at the polls on November 2nd, 2004 that put you there. And when you come back to the states missing an arm or leg, don&#39;t expect much sympathy from me because you reap what you sow. [/b][/quote]
Hah. You DO know Kerry voted for the Patriot Act too, right?

[Alacrity]

Originally posted by twicethetrouble@Nov 3 2004, 08:51 PM
Alacrity-I don&#39;t see how Bush specifically makes life miserable for those between 18 and 26 as he has publicly stated there will be no draft while he is president.
There may not be a draft but the way that Bush went about Iraq I seriously would not be surprised if we went to war with Iran, like some of the people I know have predicted, and there is a draft put into place. I&#39;m not putting any kind of trust or faith into Bush any more.

I&#39;m not saying that Kerry would&#39;ve been roses and daisies either, i&#39;m just saying that I would&#39;ve had a bit of faith that maybe he&#39;d try to rebuild the country a little bit. I can only think that Bush is going to run the country down more.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Alacrity+Nov 3 2004, 11:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Nov 3 2004, 11:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--twicethetrouble@Nov 3 2004, 08:51 PM
Alacrity-I don&#39;t see how Bush specifically makes life miserable for those between 18 and 26 as he has publicly stated there will be no draft while he is president.
There may not be a draft but the way that Bush went about Iraq I seriously would not be surprised if we went to war with Iran, like some of the people I know have predicted, and there is a draft put into place. I&#39;m not putting any kind of trust or faith into Bush any more.

I&#39;m not saying that Kerry would&#39;ve been roses and daisies either, i&#39;m just saying that I would&#39;ve had a bit of faith that maybe he&#39;d try to rebuild the country a little bit. I can only think that Bush is going to run the country down more. [/b][/quote]
Fair enough.

I doubt Bush will invade Iran though. Even he knows that we don&#39;t fucking have the resources to bomb and rebuild two countries, especially with Iraq costing more then they thought it would.

Edit: FactCheck.org has a good article on the draft scare here (http://www.factcheck.org/article200.html).

[Mark]

Originally posted by twicethetrouble+Nov 3 2004, 11:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (twicethetrouble @ Nov 3 2004, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Alacrity@Nov 3 2004, 11:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--twicethetrouble@Nov 3 2004, 08:51 PM
Alacrity-I don&#39;t see how Bush specifically makes life miserable for those between 18 and 26 as he has publicly stated there will be no draft while he is president.
There may not be a draft but the way that Bush went about Iraq I seriously would not be surprised if we went to war with Iran, like some of the people I know have predicted, and there is a draft put into place. I&#39;m not putting any kind of trust or faith into Bush any more.

I&#39;m not saying that Kerry would&#39;ve been roses and daisies either, i&#39;m just saying that I would&#39;ve had a bit of faith that maybe he&#39;d try to rebuild the country a little bit. I can only think that Bush is going to run the country down more.
Fair enough.

I doubt Bush will invade Iran though. Even he knows that we don&#39;t fucking have the resources to bomb and rebuild two countries, especially with Iraq costing more then they thought it would. [/b][/quote]
Oil should repay the debt.

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Mark@Nov 3 2004, 11:21 PM
Oil should repay the debt.
What is Iran&#39;s oil supply like? I don&#39;t know much about oil.

[Omar]

I know someone who works in Homeland Security.
He says a draft is still very possible. So please kids, go to college and avoid dying for something you may not believe in :)

(or go if you wish, *salutes*)

[Kate]

Iran won&#39;t be the problem. It&#39;ll be North Korea.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Omar@Nov 3 2004, 10:14 PM
I know someone who works in Homeland Security.
He says a draft is still very possible. So please kids, go to college and avoid dying for something you may not believe in :)

(or go if you wish, *salutes*)
And if you stay in school but they still want to draft us, if you split gas money with me and are in the midwest, I&#39;ll take you to Canada with me :lol:


And as far as North Korea goes, the situation seems to be if we don&#39;t mess with them, they won&#39;t mess with us. NK has nukes just to say they have them, but they have no intention of using them until they need to defend themselves. If Bush screws this up and goes into NK, then we truely are fucked

[+ / –]

A draft is very possible. Just because Bush said it wouldn&#39;t happen doesn&#39;t necessarily mean it won&#39;t happen. It all depends on the success of the all-volunteer army, and military experts have predicted that it&#39;s success as of now is only temporary.

[Trumtram]

half of your american people are just too old-fashioned, think 2004 and wake up...

[Kate]

Originally posted by Todd@Nov 3 2004, 11:11 PM
And if you stay in school but they still want to draft us, if you split gas money with me and are in the midwest, I&#39;ll take you to Canada with me :lol:
I hear it&#39;s very possible that they&#39;ll be drafting women too...I may just take you up on that offer. :lol:

As for North Korea, they&#39;ve been threatening Japan...does anyone remember that the U.S. made a promise to Japan that, if Japan disassembled their arms, the U.S. would watch their back? Yeah, well, Japan kept their part of the deal, now we&#39;ve got to do the same. Which, in all likelihood, means war on North Korea.

[Whimsicality]

While we&#39;re talking about the draft...


www.factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/article200.html) says:
Military experts say a draft doesn&#39;t make sense.* Numerous news accounts have quoted military experts as saying a draft would cause more problems for the military than it would solve. Here&#39;s one example, from an excellent story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last month (emphasis added):

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: "The draft would be the Army&#39;s worst nightmare," said retired Lt. Col. Leonard Wong, now a research professor at the U.S. Army War College at Carlisle Barracks. "We have a high quality Army because we have people who want to be in it. Our volunteer force is really a professional force. You can&#39;t draft people into a profession."

The Selective Service System figures it would take 183 days from the the time an order comes down to begin a draft until the first conscript reports for training. Training conscripts and forming them into military units would take many months more to meet the requirements of today&#39;s high-tech military.* If more trained uniformed men and women are needed, it would be much faster to mobilize additional National Guard units. The Post-Gazette* reports that of 38 Army National Guard combat brigades only three have been called to active service and four others were mobilizing, leaving 31 upon which to draw. (Note: National Guard Spokesman Scott Woodham confirmed these figures when FactCheck.org inquired on June 15.)

SOURCE (http://www.factcheck.org/article200.html)




www.snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp) says:
Opinions — from both those inside and outside the military — differ as to what the manpower requirements of the U.S. armed forces will be in the near future, and whether the services will be able to continue to meet those requirements under the current all-volunteer system. And certainly not everyone agrees that general conscription is the best solution to potential staffing shortfalls, for a variety of reasons:

While many in the military support conscription on the grounds of social equity or national service, nearly all professional soldiers think that bringing back the draft now would reduce the quality of the military, while driving up its cost.

"The draft would be the Army&#39;s worst nightmare," said retired Lt. Col. Leonard Wong, now a research professor at the U.S. Army War College at Carlisle Barracks. "We have a high quality Army because we have people who want to be in it. Our volunteer force is really a professional force. You can&#39;t draft people into a profession."

A fundamental problem with a draft today, experts say, is that the historic two-year period of conscription isn&#39;t enough time to get a return on the investment in training that modern soldiers require. "There&#39;s just too much equipment [draftees] could break," Pike said.

A related problem: the cost of feeding, clothing, training and paying a large influx of unskilled personnel would gobble up funds the military needs for other purposes.

"We&#39;re a personnel-based institution," Wong said. "If we have a lot more people walking in the door, it would suck up all of our resources."
Since a reimposition of conscription would require Congressional approval, which has not yet been given, it is unlikely that a draft (even if approved by Congress) would be underway as early as Spring 2005:

And even if the draft were reinstated tomorrow, it would take at least two years before it could produce additional soldiers for Iraq and Afghanistan, the experts say.

"It will take 193 days from the time that we get started until the first person is presented to the Department of Defense," said Alyce Burton, a spokeswoman for the Selective Service. It would then take a year and a half to two years to train the draftees and form them into new combat units, Krepinovich said.
Even if the draft started up again, it might be of a much more limited nature than in previous years, with only those who could fill specialized positions in certain fields (e.g., health care, linguistics, computer technology) being conscripted.

There is no definitive answer to the question of whether or not the U.S. will reinstitute a draft. Obviously some thought has been given to the issue, but the possibility that such thoughts will be turned into reality appears rather small at this point, and President Bush has stated that there will be no resumption of the draft during his presidency. Still, conditions and attitudes can change very quickly — another event of the magnitude of the September 11 attacks could prompt some rapid shifts in government policy and public opinion.

SOURCE (http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp)

Hopefully they&#39;re right, because I have a lot of friends turning 18 over the next two years--hell, I&#39;ve only got three to go...But both FactCheck and Snopes seem to be mostly unbiased, so I don&#39;t think it&#39;s time to panic.

[Alacrity]

Just remember, we&#39;re talking about a guy that went into war with Iraq when a guy in Afganistan terrorized us. He&#39;s not the brightest tool in the shed and certainly not the most believable man we can trust.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Casey@Nov 3 2004, 07:54 PM
You know who would be the perfect Democratic canidates?

Barack Obama/Howard Dean.

That&#39;s a lethal team right there.
I dont know much about Barack (care to inform me about some of his policies) but I&#39;d gladly vote for Dean if he ran again in 4 years.

[Link04]

http://www.obamaforillinois.com/index.asp?...1-ED2EEEA1804B} (http://www.obamaforillinois.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={40AFD188-F486-464C-8501-ED2EEEA1804B})

[Todd]

I&#39;d love to see Hillary Clinton running for Pres and Obama running for VP in 08, but I somehow just don&#39;t see that working out too well. Main reason being is that there are a shitload of radical right racist and sexist people in the US (such as the KKK) that would assassinate them before letting a woman or black person run this country. It&#39;s very sad, yet probably very true. And the fact that it would be a woman and a black person is just asking for trouble from these radical assholes.

Myself, I couldn&#39;t care, in fact, I think this country needs some change from the norm and needs diversity in our list of presidents, doesn&#39;t look too good for the most free and democratic country in the world having only white, male leaders. And if they&#39;re qualified to run our country, I don&#39;t give a fuck if it&#39;s a shemale. :lol:

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Todd@Nov 4 2004, 02:11 PM
And if they&#39;re qualified to run our country, I don&#39;t give a fuck if it&#39;s a shemale. :lol:
A trannie president would rock. Gay marriage might just finally become legal&#33; If only it would ever happen...

[Will]

Originally posted by Todd@Nov 4 2004, 05:11 PM
I&#39;d love to see Hillary Clinton running for Pres and Obama running for VP in 08, but I somehow just don&#39;t see that working out too well. Main reason being is that there are a shitload of radical right racist and sexist people in the US (such as the KKK) that would assassinate them before letting a woman or black person run this country. It&#39;s very sad, yet probably very true. And the fact that it would be a woman and a black person is just asking for trouble from these radical assholes.
Well, for one thing, it&#39;s going to end up being Hillary Clinton running for President with John Edwards running as Vice President, if anything. Edwards said that he&#39;s going to run for President in the future, but Hillary will get the nod from the Democrats (not to mention a win in the primaries) in 2008 if she does, indeed, decide to run. Edwards will run after that, though. I think Obama is too young.

[Shade]

God I can see the republican campaigns against Hillary already...that will be a brutal election.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Shade@Nov 4 2004, 04:53 PM
God I can see the republican campaigns against Hillary already...that will be a brutal election.
Yeah, the neoconservative commercials would be something like:
"Hillary Clinton is a woman. We need to protect America by having a man run this country. Don&#39;t vote for Clinton in 08"


Sad :(

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Todd+Nov 4 2004, 09:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 4 2004, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Shade@Nov 4 2004, 04:53 PM
God I can see the republican campaigns against Hillary already...that will be a brutal election.
Yeah, the neoconservative commercials would be something like:
"Hillary Clinton is a woman. We need to protect America by having a man run this country. Don&#39;t vote for Clinton in 08"


Sad :( [/b][/quote]
That&#39;s a dumb stereotype. I know several conservatives and not a single one is against women&#39;s rights of any kind.

[Todd]

Originally posted by twicethetrouble+Nov 4 2004, 08:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (twicethetrouble @ Nov 4 2004, 08:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Nov 4 2004, 09:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Shade@Nov 4 2004, 04:53 PM
God I can see the republican campaigns against Hillary already...that will be a brutal election.
Yeah, the neoconservative commercials would be something like:
"Hillary Clinton is a woman. We need to protect America by having a man run this country. Don&#39;t vote for Clinton in 08"


Sad :(
That&#39;s a dumb stereotype. I know several conservatives and not a single one is against women&#39;s rights of any kind. [/b][/quote]
There&#39;s a difference between conservatives and neoconservatives.

Neocons are the extreme religious right, like KKK members who think that you&#39;re inferior if you&#39;re not a white christain male

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Todd+Nov 4 2004, 08:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 4 2004, 08:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -twicethetrouble@Nov 4 2004, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Nov 4 2004, 09:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Shade@Nov 4 2004, 04:53 PM
God I can see the republican campaigns against Hillary already...that will be a brutal election.
Yeah, the neoconservative commercials would be something like:
"Hillary Clinton is a woman. We need to protect America by having a man run this country. Don&#39;t vote for Clinton in 08"


Sad :(
That&#39;s a dumb stereotype. I know several conservatives and not a single one is against women&#39;s rights of any kind.
There&#39;s a difference between conservatives and neoconservatives.

Neocons are the extreme religious right, like KKK members who think that you&#39;re inferior if you&#39;re not a white christain male [/b][/quote]
Yah it&#39;s pretty much like saying there is a difference between Nazis ans Neo-Nazis. Same shit just that Nazis are outlawed in Germany so they another name for their party.