View Full Version : Farenhype 9/11
Rather Red
10-20-2004, 12:23 AM
It's funny how Michael Moore is paying for people to rent his movie farenheit 9/11
www.michaelmoore.com
but at www.farenhype911.com
you can only BUY the conservative answer to the controversial movie for a very hefty price. and the farenhype 9/11 author says michael moore had purely financial intentions for making farenheit 9/11? what a hypocrite.
SoniX
10-20-2004, 01:48 AM
I heard since his movie made enough money in theaters he said anyone could just download the movie for free if they wanted... I haven't read enough to post much so I'll do that now :P
Originally posted by SoniX@Oct 19 2004, 08:48 PM
I heard since his movie made enough money in theaters he said anyone could just download the movie for free if they wanted... I haven't read enough to post much so I'll do that now :P
Moore said people could download his movie because he wants people to hear the truth. It had nothing to do with money, he wanted people to see it.
Originally posted by Todd+Oct 19 2004, 07:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Oct 19 2004, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SoniX@Oct 19 2004, 08:48 PM
I heard since his movie made enough money in theaters he said anyone could just download the movie for free if they wanted... I haven't read enough to post much so I'll do that now* :P
Moore said people could download his movie because he wants people to hear the truth. It had nothing to do with money, he wanted people to see it. [/b][/quote]
I mean i'm defintely not with Bush, but Michael Moores opinion isn't necessarily the truth.
Link04
10-20-2004, 07:21 PM
^ I concur. It's still a form of biased American media, even if it is completely opposing the norm.
Originally posted by Ryan+Oct 20 2004, 01:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ryan @ Oct 20 2004, 01:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Oct 19 2004, 07:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SoniX@Oct 19 2004, 08:48 PM
I heard since his movie made enough money in theaters he said anyone could just download the movie for free if they wanted... I haven't read enough to post much so I'll do that now* :P
Moore said people could download his movie because he wants people to hear the truth. It had nothing to do with money, he wanted people to see it.
I mean i'm defintely not with Bush, but Michael Moores opinion isn't necessarily the truth. [/b][/quote]
The problem with many people is;
A:: Moore is too outspoken for them.
B:: They confuse Moore's opinions with facts.
C:: They say Moore is lying even if they haven't seen the movie.
D:: They believe the lies spread over the media by hardcore democrats.
All facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 have been completely confirmed by news sources and most importantly, the 9/11 commission.
News Sources (http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/)
9/11 Commission Sources (http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911facts/)
As for this being about money or fame, that's ludicrous. Moore makes documentaries to better alert the public to problems they otherwise wouldn't know about. Many people had a sense that there was a gun problem in the states, but Moore helped them show the absolute and strikingly troubling gun issue in the US in "Bowling For Columbine". He did such a good job on that that he won the Oscar for 'Best Documentary' in 2002.
Moore's a documentarian. He picks a topic, films it, and shows the public. This time, he saw the problem with the US government, and decided to show how corrupt they are. Although his tongue may be sharp, he does it for all the right reasons, not money or fame. He's an informant, and if people care to pay for that information, then all the power to him. He's more about the message than the money, though.
Link04
10-20-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Mark@Oct 20 2004, 07:36 PM
C:: They say Moore is lying even if they haven't seen the movie.
That's the one thing I can't stand. I'm not pro-Moore, but when some hardcore right wingers that I know try to accuse him of lying and such when they haven't even seen the movie, it just makes them look foolish.
Originally posted by Link04+Oct 20 2004, 05:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Oct 20 2004, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Oct 20 2004, 07:36 PM
C:: They say Moore is lying even if they haven't seen the movie.
That's the one thing I can't stand. I'm not pro-Moore, but when some hardcore right wingers that I know try to accuse him of lying and such when they haven't even seen the movie, it just makes them look foolish. [/b][/quote]
And then the worst thing about that is that if they see the movie all they're going to do is be narcisistic and denounce everything he says even if there's proof. I could come out tomorrow with evidence God didn't exist, but would everyone stop practicing religion? No. Because they want to hold onto that paradigm, onto that last bit of security blanket that helps them sleep. People are afraid to admit they're wrong sometimes.
Originally posted by Link04+Oct 20 2004, 02:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Oct 20 2004, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Oct 20 2004, 07:36 PM
C:: They say Moore is lying even if they haven't seen the movie.
That's the one thing I can't stand. I'm not pro-Moore, but when some hardcore right wingers that I know try to accuse him of lying and such when they haven't even seen the movie, it just makes them look foolish. [/b][/quote]
gawd, my roommate is exactly like that. Its annoying. He says all this bullshit about how moore is a big fat stupid liberal liar, he has said, and I quote "I would kill michael moore if I ever saw him in person" (he's a stupid right wing gun nut, go figure) and says moore makes our troops look bad in the movie (he's also a stupid, right winger who thinks our troops are always right and perfrect). Yet the douche has never, ever seen the movie and he refuses to see it. So every thing he has against the movie is based on some baseless opinion he saw on Fox or some craphole like that.
Ironically, my roommate is one of those people that lives by the rule "Dont judge a book (or movie for that matter) by it's cover." Like he asked me if I like star wars awhile ago....no I dont, and I stated that I've seen about 20 minutes and was falling asleep because it sucked so bad. He fires back, "don't say you dont like a movie until you see it!" He HATES people critizing things. When I say the food in the dorm cafeteria smells like shit, looks like shit, has a texture like shit and tastes like shit, he tells me to stop critizing everything, despite the fact that every student who has ever put that food in their mouth will agree with me. yet when I bring up F911, he has no excuse for being such a goddamn hypocrite. If anyone is interested in making my roommate misteriously dissapear from this college campus for the rest of my years at college, I will pay for your plane ticket and pick you up from the airport personally and even buy you lunch. If you need a place to stay, you can have his bed for a few nights. Don't worry, its clean and hasn't had any activity on it. The dumbass wouldn't know what to do with a girl if there are 4 of them naked in his bed :D :lol:
As for this being about money or fame, that's ludicrous. Moore makes documentaries to better alert the public to problems they otherwise wouldn't know about. Many people had a sense that there was a gun problem in the states, but Moore helped them show the absolute and strikingly troubling gun issue in the US in "Bowling For Columbine". He did such a good job on that that he won the Oscar for 'Best Documentary' in 2002.
Yah that is total BS that people are trying to say the whole thing is aobut money. It ahs nothing to do with money he just wants to show people the facts and they can take it how they want, although he is a little in your face with his opinion.
B:: They confuse Moore's opinions with facts.
This is the problem that i find with many anti-Bush and pro-Moore people. They take what he says as face value. They won't bother looking into other documents and do their own research. But I know that many of the anti-Bush people in here have done there research on Moors points and know whats right from wrong. So basically i just hate people that are just jumping on the bandwagon and become anti-Bush. You hear them say say Bush is a dumbass, so oyu ask them why, all they can say is because of the war in Iraq, but they can't ack it up with any proof.
Originally posted by Ryan@Oct 20 2004, 05:40 PM
B:: They confuse Moore's opinions with facts.
This is the problem that i find with many anti-Bush and pro-Moore people. They take what he says as face value. They won't bother looking into other documents and do their own research. But I know that many of the anti-Bush people in here have done there research on Moors points and know whats right from wrong. So basically i just hate people that are just jumping on the bandwagon and become anti-Bush. You hear them say say Bush is a dumbass, so oyu ask them why, all they can say is because of the war in Iraq, but they can't ack it up with any proof.
Yes, but there's also alot of anti-Moore bandwagonners (such as one of my friends who brings up the stupidest things to hate on Moore for) who did it as a fad or because it's how other people think.
My friend says Moore is making it look like all military families are like the woman in F911 who said she supported Bush before the war and hates him now since he killed her son by invading Iraq unjustfully. Of course not. Moore never said all military families are like that, he's just portraying a greiving mother in an intensely emotional scene. That's ludicrous to put words in the man's mouth. He says Moore isn't a documentarian, only a propoghandist, when it's stories like that which make a documentary a documentary. Moore portrays the families in his movies as people, doesn't bullshit around with their quotes, and that's what makes a documentary what it is. A film about the people, about a subject. I shot that back at him and he said I'm an uninformed liberal idiot, to which I just roll my eyes at the pure idiocy of his comments.
Maëlle
10-20-2004, 08:27 PM
I personally think that if Moore acts this way, it's because he wants people to think before they make their choice and to make people react, you have to openly criticize what they believe in. A simple documentary with a politically correct narator, giving littles facts about things everybody knows, while trying to be neutral would've been forgotten two days after its release.
Maybe Moore's doing propaganda but Hell, Bush did the same thing with the war in Irak.
Link04
10-20-2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Todd+Oct 20 2004, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Oct 20 2004, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Link04@Oct 20 2004, 02:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Oct 20 2004, 07:36 PM
C:: They say Moore is lying even if they haven't seen the movie.
That's the one thing I can't stand. I'm not pro-Moore, but when some hardcore right wingers that I know try to accuse him of lying and such when they haven't even seen the movie, it just makes them look foolish.
gawd, my roommate is exactly like that. Its annoying. He says all this bullshit about how moore is a big fat stupid liberal liar, he has said, and I quote "I would kill michael moore if I ever saw him in person" (he's a stupid right wing gun nut, go figure) and says moore makes our troops look bad in the movie (he's also a stupid, right winger who thinks our troops are always right and perfrect). Yet the douche has never, ever seen the movie and he refuses to see it. So every thing he has against the movie is based on some baseless opinion he saw on Fox or some craphole like that.
Ironically, my roommate is one of those people that lives by the rule "Dont judge a book (or movie for that matter) by it's cover." Like he asked me if I like star wars awhile ago....no I dont, and I stated that I've seen about 20 minutes and was falling asleep because it sucked so bad. He fires back, "don't say you dont like a movie until you see it!" He HATES people critizing things. When I say the food in the dorm cafeteria smells like shit, looks like shit, has a texture like shit and tastes like shit, he tells me to stop critizing everything, despite the fact that every student who has ever put that food in their mouth will agree with me. yet when I bring up F911, he has no excuse for being such a goddamn hypocrite. If anyone is interested in making my roommate misteriously dissapear from this college campus for the rest of my years at college, I will pay for your plane ticket and pick you up from the airport personally and even buy you lunch. If you need a place to stay, you can have his bed for a few nights. Don't worry, its clean and hasn't had any activity on it. The dumbass wouldn't know what to do with a girl if there are 4 of them naked in his bed :D :lol: [/b][/quote]
You bring up a great point in my mind. This, of course, doesn't apply to all Republicans, but a few that I know are very hypocritical when it comes to their faith and their political beliefs. For example, they wholeheartedly support the war in Iraq, yet they claim to be against murder, if they were to argue abortion or something like that.
Ahh, that reminds me of about a month ago, when Chris Heinz, Kerry's stepson came to my campus to help campaign for John. I, of course, went to it, unfortunatley, so did a couple republicans, one douche who had some old jacket with Bush 04 written on it with a sharpie marker :lol:
Being a small group of people there, Heinz asked if there were any questions. One girl asked what John's views were on abortion. He said he supports a woman's right to choose, ect. Well, righty douche (I dont know his name, so thats what I'll call him) raises his hand..."Kerry says he's a Catholic. Catholics are for protecting human life under any circumstance so how can he support abortion?" Good question...NOT, it backfired. Chris Heinz replies, "Bush also says he supports protecting human life under any circumstances, so how is it that as governor of Texas, he was responsible for more executions than any other governor" Righty douche wasn't expecting such a good answer, should have seen the look on his face, priceless :lol:
Link04
10-20-2004, 09:02 PM
:lol:
Today After Tomorrow
10-21-2004, 03:43 AM
I say in 2012 when Kerry's eight years are up - Michael Moore for president.
goso88
10-21-2004, 04:25 AM
Moore said people could download his movie because he wants people to hear the truth. It had nothing to do with money, he wanted people to see it.
I tend to be pretty cynical most of the time, but I can believe that ^_^ . I'm glad he's so...er...outspoken...interested in delivering a message to the people...I don't exactly know the right word right now...but whatever it is, its a plus for him.
Originally posted by Today After Tomorrow@Oct 21 2004, 01:13 AM
I say in 2012 when Kerry's eight years are up - Michael Moore for president.
Too abrasive for voters. Unless he feels like going Independant.
Oprah for president! Minorities and women make up over 50% of the population. It'd be a slaughter!
Today After Tomorrow
10-22-2004, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by Mark+Oct 21 2004, 02:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Oct 21 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Today After Tomorrow@Oct 21 2004, 01:13 AM
I say in 2012 when Kerry's eight years are up - Michael Moore for president.
Too abrasive for voters. Unless he feels like going Independant.
Oprah for president! Minorities and women make up over 50% of the population. It'd be a slaughter! [/b][/quote]
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g...notes101304.DTL (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/10/13/notes101304.DTL)
Rather Red
10-23-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Today After Tomorrow@Oct 21 2004, 03:43 AM
I say in 2012 when Kerry's eight years are up - Michael Moore for president.
i say micheal moore for president now.
but you guys missed my point. michael moore made farenheit 9.11 to spread the truth. the people who made the right-wing answer, farenhype 9.11, are SELLING their movie on the net for a very hefty price, then in the movie, they say that moore's intention for making his movie was to get money. how hypocritical, yes?
Today After Tomorrow
10-24-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by SolXfyR+Oct 23 2004, 11:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SolXfyR @ Oct 23 2004, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Today After Tomorrow@Oct 21 2004, 03:43 AM
I say in 2012 when Kerry's eight years are up - Michael Moore for president.
i say micheal moore for president now.
but you guys missed my point. michael moore made farenheit 9.11 to spread the truth. the people who made the right-wing answer, farenhype 9.11, are SELLING their movie on the net for a very hefty price, then in the movie, they say that moore's intention for making his movie was to get money. how hypocritical, yes? [/b][/quote]
It's all crap. Moore's responce to everyone who says he's lieing(which for some strange reason happens to be Republicans who haven't even seen the movie) is "Proove it." Republicans are just salty because there is a big celebrity out there who's spreading the truth about their beloved president. So they do the one thing they do best: Lie.
FreeYourMind
10-24-2004, 06:09 PM
Damn.. now i really don't understand anymore what's going on in the us politics :wth:
Radical Dreamer
10-24-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Todd+Oct 20 2004, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Oct 20 2004, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Link04@Oct 20 2004, 02:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Oct 20 2004, 07:36 PM
C:: They say Moore is lying even if they haven't seen the movie.
That's the one thing I can't stand. I'm not pro-Moore, but when some hardcore right wingers that I know try to accuse him of lying and such when they haven't even seen the movie, it just makes them look foolish.
gawd, my roommate is exactly like that. Its annoying. He says all this bullshit about how moore is a big fat stupid liberal liar, he has said, and I quote "I would kill michael moore if I ever saw him in person" (he's a stupid right wing gun nut, go figure) and says moore makes our troops look bad in the movie (he's also a stupid, right winger who thinks our troops are always right and perfrect). Yet the douche has never, ever seen the movie and he refuses to see it. So every thing he has against the movie is based on some baseless opinion he saw on Fox or some craphole like that.
Ironically, my roommate is one of those people that lives by the rule "Dont judge a book (or movie for that matter) by it's cover." Like he asked me if I like star wars awhile ago....no I dont, and I stated that I've seen about 20 minutes and was falling asleep because it sucked so bad. He fires back, "don't say you dont like a movie until you see it!" He HATES people critizing things. When I say the food in the dorm cafeteria smells like shit, looks like shit, has a texture like shit and tastes like shit, he tells me to stop critizing everything, despite the fact that every student who has ever put that food in their mouth will agree with me. yet when I bring up F911, he has no excuse for being such a goddamn hypocrite. If anyone is interested in making my roommate misteriously dissapear from this college campus for the rest of my years at college, I will pay for your plane ticket and pick you up from the airport personally and even buy you lunch. If you need a place to stay, you can have his bed for a few nights. Don't worry, its clean and hasn't had any activity on it. The dumbass wouldn't know what to do with a girl if there are 4 of them naked in his bed :D :lol: [/b][/quote]
:lol: What a douche bag.
I think Michael Moore is just too outspoken for some people. If they don't agree with what he's trying to portray, or find it too hard to believe, then obviously they'd want to call him a liar. I've seen a lot of hard evidence on how much Bush sucks, but it's very rare to find Bush-supporters coming up with evidence of how good a president he is. If you ask a Bush-supporter why they think Bush is good, they'd most likely say one of the following:
- I don't support stem cell research/gay marriage/abortion.
- He's good at fighting terrorism.
- He sticks to his beliefs and never wavers.
...to which I'd like to quote Clinton: "Strength and wisdom are not opposing values". You can be a strong leader without acting like a total moron. The biggest irony is that 9/11 and all these big terrorist attacks came AFTER Bush seized the Oval Office, but people still insist he'll make the world a safer place. :wth:
erasethepain
10-27-2004, 02:31 AM
I wish he would do a documentary on religion.
Maybe ask people why they believe? Have them give an answer without using "I can just feel this force or I saw Jesus" as the answer. Religion has done more harm than any nucleur weapon could do.
Radical Dreamer
10-27-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by J Money@Oct 27 2004, 02:31 AM
Religion has done more harm than any nucleur weapon could do.
I suppose...but that would be like saying guns are responsible for crime. Strictly speaking, it's not religion that's to blame, just as you don't blame a gun for people's death, you blame the person who used and manipulated it wrongly. :wth:
1200techniques
10-29-2004, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Link04@Oct 20 2004, 07:21 PM
^ I concur. It's still a form of biased American media, even if it is completely opposing the norm.
no its not
its not supposed to be fair-balanced work of journalism, it's his opinion he has the right to present his opinion any way he wants. I thought freedom of speech was in the constitution, so ppl should not be complaining
1200techniques
10-29-2004, 02:11 AM
btw this is completely irrelevant but how would u feel if linkin park were pro-bush and pro-war? how would u react?
Originally posted by 1200techniques@Oct 28 2004, 09:11 PM
btw this is completely irrelevant but how would u feel if linkin park were pro-bush and pro-war? how would u react?
I'd burn all of the LP merchandise I have even though I paid for it with my hard earned money and boycott them and urge all my friends to do the same....
Jesus christ, what do you think anyone here would do? If you stop listening to one of your favorite bands because of their political views, you need your head examined
and don't double post
1200techniques
10-31-2004, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Todd+Oct 29 2004, 02:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Oct 29 2004, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--1200techniques@Oct 28 2004, 09:11 PM
btw this is completely irrelevant but how would u feel if linkin park were pro-bush and pro-war? how would u react?
I'd burn all of the LP merchandise I have even though I paid for it with my hard earned money and boycott them and urge all my friends to do the same....
Jesus christ, what do you think anyone here would do? If you stop listening to one of your favorite bands because of their political views, you need your head examined
and don't double post [/b][/quote]
well why wouldnt u boycott them?
if they have a political opinion that offends yo0u and your beleifs
im half palestinian and i lost my cousin in iraq so yea i would stop listening to them. So maybe it wouldnt affect you the same way its affected me
Originally posted by 1200techniques+Oct 31 2004, 06:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (1200techniques @ Oct 31 2004, 06:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Oct 29 2004, 02:36 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--1200techniques@Oct 28 2004, 09:11 PM
btw this is completely irrelevant but how would u feel if linkin park were pro-bush and pro-war? how would u react?
I'd burn all of the LP merchandise I have even though I paid for it with my hard earned money and boycott them and urge all my friends to do the same....
Jesus christ, what do you think anyone here would do? If you stop listening to one of your favorite bands because of their political views, you need your head examined
and don't double post
well why wouldnt u boycott them?
if they have a political opinion that offends yo0u and your beleifs
im half palestinian and i lost my cousin in iraq so yea i would stop listening to them. So maybe it wouldnt affect you the same way its affected me [/b][/quote]
If you can't disassociate the band members' political thoughts with the music they play, I'm sure they'd be happy to lose a naive fan.
1200techniques
10-31-2004, 10:39 PM
go to hell
what r u going to do, ban me?
go the fuck ahead
so much for beliefs on free speech huh?
goso88
11-01-2004, 12:21 AM
btw this is completely irrelevant but how would u feel if linkin park were pro-bush and pro-war? how would u react?
As long as they kept their music clean of their political beliefs, I would be fine.
User Name
11-01-2004, 12:34 AM
Whoa there 1200, calm down, and Mark, come on. The one-liners, whether they be meant in jest or not, aren't helping the situation, as you can see.
Music is music, you guys. If [insert band] were pro-Bush, that wouldn't stop me from buying their music. I mean, we shouldn't be even focusing on their image anyways, right? Who gives a flying rooster if they think that way? As long as they make good music, then we should be fine.
Originally posted by 1200techniques@Oct 31 2004, 08:09 PM
go to hell
what r u going to do, ban me?
go the fuck ahead
so much for beliefs on free speech huh?
Funny how you're telling me to shut up and "go to hell" for saying something and then you lament on about "free speech". You're warned for flaming. Grow up.
And Cameron, I could've went on for a couple sentences about that, but seriosuly, would my message have changed? No. I'm just saying that refusing to listen to a band because of their political views instead of their music completely goes against what a band stands for. Bands play music, people buy cds for bands and the songs they play. I don't know the last time I've picked up a Dixie Chicks cd because I don't like Bush. That's asinine.
1200techniques
11-01-2004, 02:16 AM
ok
mark im really sorry
i forgot to log off using a school computer and someone else posted using my name
i would never enter a thread on american politics cause i live in aus and i dont think i should be commenting on the situation
anyway i was reading it and as id youd care about ur bands political beliefs, its no one's business.
sorry, ill remember to log off next time
Rather Red
11-01-2004, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by J Money@Oct 27 2004, 02:31 AM
I wish he would do a documentary on religion.
Maybe ask people why they believe? Have them give an answer without using "I can just feel this force or I saw Jesus" as the answer. Religion has done more harm than any nucleur weapon could do.
obstinate child
michael moore is religious himself
he would never make a documentary like that anyway
it's closed-minded people like you who kill people. religion in its purest form seeks to save and help. grow up and quit your church-bashing.
i'd appreciate it if you stayed on topic too.
Originally posted by SolXfyR@Oct 31 2004, 11:02 PM
it's closed-minded people like you who kill people. religion in its purest form seeks to save and help. grow up and quit your church-bashing.
Nearly every war in the history of the world was caused by religion. Try learning a bit about European history....every damn war they had was about religion.
Dear Friends,
This is it. ONE DAY LEFT. There are many things I’d like to say. I’ve been on the road getting out the vote for 51 straight days so I haven’t had much time to write. So I’ve put together a bunch of notes to various groups all in this one letter. Please feel free to copy and send whatever portions are appropriate to your friends and family as you spend these last 24 hours trying to convince whomever you can to show up and vote for John Kerry.
Here are my final words…
To Decent Conservatives and Recovering Republicans:
In your heart of hearts you know Bush is a miserable failure. From having no plan on what to do in Iraq once he conquered Baghdad to the 380 missing tons of explosives that could be used to kill our brave young men and women, this guy doesn’t have a clue how to fight and win a war. You should see the mail I’ve been getting lately from our troops over there. They know how much the Iraqi people hate them. They are sitting ducks anytime they go out on the road. Many believe we are not that far away from a Tet-style offensive inside the Green Zone with hundreds of Americans and Brits killed.
Bush refused to go after and capture Osama bin Laden. He fought, every step of the way, the investigation into the 9/11 attacks. Who on earth would oppose such a thing? If 3,000 people died at your place of work and your boss said we don’t need to find out why or how it happened, he’d be thrown out on his ear. Bush’s behavior after this great tragedy alone is reason enough for his removal.
You already know that George W. Bush is the farthest thing from a conservative. He’s a reckless spender who has run up record-breaking deficits and the biggest debt in our history. He believes in having the government pry into everything from your library records to your bedroom. He has hit you with hidden taxes with his tax cuts for the rich.
I know many of you don’t like Bush, but are unsure of Kerry. Give the new guy a chance. He won’t raise your taxes (unless you are super-rich), he won’t take your hunting gun away, and he won’t make you visit France. He risked his life for you many years ago. He’s asking for the chance to do it again. Scott McConnell at The American Conservative magazine has endorsed him. What more do you need?
To My Friends on the Left:
Okay, Kerry isn’t everything you wished he would be. You’re right. He’s not you! Or me. But we’re not on the ballot – Kerry is. Yes, Kerry was wrong to vote for authorization for war in Iraq but he was in step with 70% of the American public who was being lied to by Bush & Co. And once everyone learned the truth, the majority turned against the war. Kerry has had only one position on the war – he believed his president.
President Kerry had better bring the troops home right away. My prediction: Kerry’s roots are anti-war. He has seen the horrors of war and because of that he will avoid war unless it is absolutely necessary. Ask most vets. But don’t ask someone whose only horror was when he arrived too late for a kegger in Alabama.
There’s a reason Bush calls Kerry the Number One Liberal in the Senate – THAT’S BECAUSE HE IS THE NUMBER ONE LIBERAL IN THE SENATE! What more do you want? My friends, this is about as good as it gets when voting for the Democrat. We don’t have the #29 Liberal running or the #14 Liberal or even the #2 Liberal – we got #1! When has that ever happened?
Those of us who may be to the left of the #1 liberal Democrat should remember that this year conservative Democrats have had to make a far greater shift in their position to back Kerry than we have. We’re the ones always being asked to make the huge compromises and to always vote holding our noses. No nose holding this time. This #1 liberal is not the tweedledee to Bush’s tweedledum.
To Nader Voters:
See the above note.
Ralph’s own party, the Green Party, would not endorse his run this year. That’s because those of us who want to build a third party in this country know that the only way to do this is to build bridges with those who believe in the issues Nader believes in. But not one of those people will sacrifice the chance to remove George W. Bush from the White House on Tuesday. The choice here is clear: do we join with our friends, or do we piss on them?
After the debacle of 2000, the Democrats got smart and abandoned the conservative wing of their party. That’s why 8 of the 9 Democrats in the primaries this year were from the liberal wing. Ralph should take credit for that and declare victory. It’s so sad that he doesn’t realize the good he’s accomplished. But for reasons only known to him, he’s more angry at the Democrats than he is at Bush. He has lost his compass. I worry he has lost his mind. But he still gives a great speech!
And Lila Lipscomb, the mother from Flint who lost her son in Iraq, she still grieves -- as do the mothers of 1,120 others (not to mention the mothers of the 100,000 Iraqis who have died because of Bush’s war). That’s what this election is about. Not Ralph proving some point. Almost none of us on his 2000 advisory group are supporting him this year. His total lack of respect for his best friends should tell all of you something about what he really thinks of you, too.
To the Non-Swing States:
Stop listening to how your vote doesn’t count in this election and that your state is already decided for Kerry or Bush. It is critical that you vote because we not only need to give Kerry the electoral win, but he needs to have a HUGE mandate with an ENORMOUS popular vote victory as well. It will be impossible for him to get anything done for four years if there is no clear mandate. We must not only defeat Bush, we must put a stake in the heart of the right-wing, neo-con movement. If you live in New York, California, Illinois, Texas, the Northeast or the Deep South, you need to vote and you need to bring ten people with you to the polls. If you live in a state where we have the chance to elect the Democrat to the Senate or the House, you need to vote. Turn off the TV. Quit listening to news media that has a vested interest in repeating to you over and over that your vote does not count. It does.
If you have friends or relatives who live in the 30-plus non-swing states, call them and remind them how important it is that Kerry gets a massive popular vote victory.
To Non-Voters:
I understand why you stopped voting. Politicians suck. Nothing ever seems to change. You’re only one vote.
Yes, politicians suck. But so do car salesmen – and that hasn’t stopped you from buying a car. Politicians only respond to the threat of the angry mob also known as the voting public. If most people don’t vote, that’s good news for them ‘cause then they don’t have to answer to the majority.
Almost fifty percent of Americans don’t vote. That means you belong to the largest political party in America – the Non-Voting Party. That means you hold all the power to toss George W. Bush out of the Oval Office. How cool is that?
I believe that we are going to have the largest election turnout in our lifetime tomorrow. You don’t want to miss out on that. The lines at the polls are going to be long and raucous and fun. It is an historic election. You won’t want to say that you were the only one who wasn’t there. Promise me you’ll vote, just this one time.
To All First-Time Voters:
Welcome to the longest running, uninterrupted democracy on earth! You own it. It’s yours.
A few words about how messy it’s going to be tomorrow. The lines are going to be long. Bring your iPods. Better yet, bring a friend or two. The election officials have no clue just how many millions are going to show up at the polls. This will be the largest turnout in our lifetime. They don’t have enough machines. They are going to have to send for more ballots.
And they are going to make it difficult for you to vote. The new law says if this is your first time voting you must bring ID with you that matches the address you are registered at.
If for some reason they can’t find your name on the voting rolls, you have the right to ask for a provisional ballot, which you can fill out and then sort things out later.
If you have any problems at the polling place, please call 1-866-OUR-VOTE. The people there can tell you how to find the precinct where you should be voting, get you legal help if you are denied the right to vote, or answer any other questions you may have.
If you need any help figuring out the ballot, don’t be afraid to ask. If you screw up your ballot, you can ask for another one. In fact, the law allows you to screw up your ballot two times before you finally have to submit your final ballot! Be careful to vote on the line that says John F. Kerry/John Edwards. Don’t vote for more than one Presidential, Senate or House candidate or you ballot won’t be counted. If your polling place has a stub or a receipt from your ballot, make sure they give you one.
Thanks for joining us. Democracy is not a spectator sport. It only works when we all come off the bench and participate.
To African Americans:
First of all, let’s just acknowledge what you already know: America is a country which still has a race problem, to put it nicely. Al Gore would be president today had thousands of African Americans not had their right to vote stolen from them in Florida in 2000.
Here is my commitment: I will do everything I can to make sure that this will not happen again. And I’m not the only one making this pledge. Thousands of volunteer lawyers are flying to Florida to act as poll watchers and intervene should there be any attempts to deny anyone their right to vote. They will NOT be messing around.
For my part, I have organized an army of 1,200 professional and amateur filmmakers who will be armed with video cameras throughout the states of Florida and Ohio. At the first sign of criminality, we will dispatch a camera crew to where the vote fraud is taking place and record what is going on. We will put a big public spotlight on any wrongdoing by Republican officials in those two states. They will not get away with this as they did in 2000.
In Ohio, the Republicans are sending almost 2,000 paid “poll challengers” into the black precincts of Cleveland in an attempt to stop African Americans from voting. This action is beyond despicable. Do not let this stop you from voting. I, and thousand of others, will be there to fight for you and protect you.
To George W.:
I know it’s gotta be rough for you right now. Hey, we’ve all been there. “You’re fired” are two horrible words when put together in that order. Bin Laden surfacing this weekend to remind the American people of your total and complete failure to capture him was a cruel trick or treat. But there he was. 3,000 people were killed and he’s laughing in your face. Why did you stop our Special Forces from going after him? Why did you forget about bin Laden on the DAY AFTER 9/11 and tell your terrorism czar to concentrate on Iraq instead?
There he was, OBL, all tan and rested and on videotape (hey, did you get the feeling that he had a bootleg of my movie? Are there DVD players in those caves in Afghanistan?)
Speaking of my movie – can I ask you a personal question before we part ways for good on Tuesday? Why did you and your friends fund SIX “documentaries” trashing me -- but only ONE film against Kerry? C’mon, he was the candidate, not me. What a waste of your time and resources! Sure, I know what your pollsters told you, that the film had convinced some people to vote you out. I just want you to know that that was not my original intent. Funny things happen at the movies. Hope you get to see a few at the multiplex in Waco. It’s a great way to relax.
To John Kerry:
Thank you.
And don’t worry – none of us are going away after you are inaugurated. We’ll be there to hold your hand and keep you honest. Don’t let us down. We’re betting you won’t. So is the rest of the world.
That’s it. See you at the polls – and at the victory party tomorrow night.
Yours,
Michael Moore
He summed up pretty much everything that needed to be said.
Nikki
11-01-2004, 07:20 PM
My total respect goes out to Micheal Moore.
My hopes as well as most of England's and almost all of France are going right behind Kerry. Please make me proud when you go out and vote tomorrow..
Link04
11-01-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Todd+Nov 1 2004, 05:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 1 2004, 05:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SolXfyR@Oct 31 2004, 11:02 PM
it's closed-minded people like you who kill people. religion in its purest form seeks to save and help. grow up and quit your church-bashing.
Nearly every war in the history of the world was caused by religion. Try learning a bit about European history....every damn war they had was about religion. [/b][/quote]
But can you blame religion itself on that? No, it's the way people carry out their religion, often in close minded, ignorant, violent ways, that starts wars. Don't just blame it all on what they believe. I agree with SolXfy.
Originally posted by Nikki@Nov 1 2004, 03:20 PM
My total respect goes out to Micheal Moore.
My hopes as well as most of England's and almost all of France are going right behind Kerry. Please make me proud when you go out and vote tomorrow..
I'll make you proud :D
btw, if you're a registered voter, theres no reason you can't vote. Im driving 100 miles, and from the looks of the weather report, in the rain to spend 10 minutes voting. If you don't have a ride to the polls, find a friend that can drive you there. If anyone in the St. Louis area can't get a ride and you're voting for Kerry :D PM me, I'll take you to the polls so we can vote bush out.
KERRY 04 and 08!
Link04
11-01-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Todd+Nov 1 2004, 08:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 1 2004, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Nikki@Nov 1 2004, 03:20 PM
My total respect goes out to Micheal Moore.
My hopes as well as most of England's and almost all of France are going right behind Kerry. Please make me proud when you go out and vote tomorrow..
I'll make you proud :D
btw, if you're a registered voter, theres no reason you can't vote. Im driving 100 miles, and from the looks of the weather report, in the rain to spend 10 minutes voting. If you don't have a ride to the polls, find a friend that can drive you there. If anyone in the St. Louis area can't get a ride and you're voting for Kerry :D PM me, I'll take you to the polls so we can vote bush out.
KERRY 04 and 08! [/b][/quote]
I can see a very good reason not to vote. Simply, if you're uninformed, and KNOW you're uninformed, I think you should consider not voting. What is the worth of a groundless opinion? It gives more worth to your informed opinoin anyways.
Originally posted by Todd+Nov 1 2004, 05:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 1 2004, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Nikki@Nov 1 2004, 03:20 PM
My total respect goes out to Micheal Moore.
My hopes as well as most of England's and almost all of France are going right behind Kerry. Please make me proud when you go out and vote tomorrow..
I'll make you proud :D
btw, if you're a registered voter, theres no reason you can't vote. Im driving 100 miles, and from the looks of the weather report, in the rain to spend 10 minutes voting. If you don't have a ride to the polls, find a friend that can drive you there. If anyone in the St. Louis area can't get a ride and you're voting for Kerry :D PM me, I'll take you to the polls so we can vote bush out.
KERRY 04 and 08! [/b][/quote]
Bring your iPod. The lines will be huge. :lol:
Originally posted by Link04+Nov 1 2004, 04:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Nov 1 2004, 04:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Nov 1 2004, 08:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Nikki@Nov 1 2004, 03:20 PM
My total respect goes out to Micheal Moore.
My hopes as well as most of England's and almost all of France are going right behind Kerry. Please make me proud when you go out and vote tomorrow..
I'll make you proud :D
btw, if you're a registered voter, theres no reason you can't vote. Im driving 100 miles, and from the looks of the weather report, in the rain to spend 10 minutes voting. If you don't have a ride to the polls, find a friend that can drive you there. If anyone in the St. Louis area can't get a ride and you're voting for Kerry :D PM me, I'll take you to the polls so we can vote bush out.
KERRY 04 and 08!
I can see a very good reason not to vote. Simply, if you're uninformed, and KNOW you're uninformed, I think you should consider not voting. What is the worth of a groundless opinion? It gives more worth to your informed opinoin anyways. [/b][/quote]
I think he was talking about the people who aren't being allowed to vote for no reason. A guy in my area was arrested because the people at his polling station told his wife she wasn't allowed to vote until she turned her Kerry shirt inside-out. But he wouldn't hear of that because it's freedom of speech, so he got really pissed off, and they arrested him. That's what Todd was talking about, I think. If you can vote, you should be allowed, no matter what. I don't think it had anything to do with being informed or not.
Rather Red
11-02-2004, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Link04+Nov 1 2004, 08:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Nov 1 2004, 08:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Nov 1 2004, 05:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--SolXfyR@Oct 31 2004, 11:02 PM
it's closed-minded people like you who kill people. religion in its purest form seeks to save and help. grow up and quit your church-bashing.
Nearly every war in the history of the world was caused by religion. Try learning a bit about European history....every damn war they had was about religion.
But can you blame religion itself on that? No, it's the way people carry out their religion, often in close minded, ignorant, violent ways, that starts wars. Don't just blame it all on what they believe. I agree with SolXfyR. [/b][/quote]
first of all, i probably know more than you when it comes to european history, and world history for that matter. i know about most of the wars, revolutions, and inquisitions, and they weren't started because of anything religion directly incited. they were started because insane, racist murderers wanted an excuse to go medieval on someone (pun intended). so they contrived the words of sacred books. religion brings happiness to people. For those who don't need it, whatever floats their boat. don't blame war on something that seeks to engender peace and love.
by the way, i think bush is a liar like you, but are you allowed to swear at him on this board?
Originally posted by SolXfyR+Nov 1 2004, 10:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SolXfyR @ Nov 1 2004, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Link04@Nov 1 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by -Todd@Nov 1 2004, 05:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--SolXfyR@Oct 31 2004, 11:02 PM
it's closed-minded people like you who kill people.* religion in its purest form seeks to save and help.* grow up and quit your church-bashing.
Nearly every war in the history of the world was caused by religion. Try learning a bit about European history....every damn war they had was about religion.
But can you blame religion itself on that? No, it's the way people carry out their religion, often in close minded, ignorant, violent ways, that starts wars. Don't just blame it all on what they believe. I agree with SolXfyR.
first of all, i probably know more than you when it comes to european history, and world history for that matter. i know about most of the wars, revolutions, and inquisitions, and they weren't started because of anything religion directly incited. they were started because insane, racist murderers wanted an excuse to go medieval on someone (pun intended). so they contrived the words of sacred books. religion brings happiness to people. For those who don't need it, whatever floats their boat. don't blame war on something that seeks to engender peace and love.
by the way, i think bush is a liar like you, but are you allowed to swear at him on this board? [/b][/quote]
But, if religion never existed, these radicals would have never had an excuse to go to war because if there was no religion, there would be no religious fanatics. A similar example would be, lets say a math class. You don't study, you fail your math class. However, its safe to assume that F wouldn't be on your record if math never existed. Same goes for religion, if it never existed, it wouldn't have been the cause of any wars.
And for your last question.....fuck bush :D
Shade
11-02-2004, 01:21 PM
Abstantee Ballot all the way :D .
Now comes the waiting...
Link04
11-02-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Todd+Nov 2 2004, 03:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Nov 2 2004, 03:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -SolXfyR@Nov 1 2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by -Link04@Nov 1 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by -Todd@Nov 1 2004, 05:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--SolXfyR@Oct 31 2004, 11:02 PM
it's closed-minded people like you who kill people. religion in its purest form seeks to save and help. grow up and quit your church-bashing.
Nearly every war in the history of the world was caused by religion. Try learning a bit about European history....every damn war they had was about religion.
But can you blame religion itself on that? No, it's the way people carry out their religion, often in close minded, ignorant, violent ways, that starts wars. Don't just blame it all on what they believe. I agree with SolXfyR.
first of all, i probably know more than you when it comes to european history, and world history for that matter. i know about most of the wars, revolutions, and inquisitions, and they weren't started because of anything religion directly incited. they were started because insane, racist murderers wanted an excuse to go medieval on someone (pun intended). so they contrived the words of sacred books. religion brings happiness to people. For those who don't need it, whatever floats their boat. don't blame war on something that seeks to engender peace and love.
by the way, i think bush is a liar like you, but are you allowed to swear at him on this board?
But, if religion never existed, these radicals would have never had an excuse to go to war because if there was no religion, there would be no religious fanatics. A similar example would be, lets say a math class. You don't study, you fail your math class. However, its safe to assume that F wouldn't be on your record if math never existed. Same goes for religion, if it never existed, it wouldn't have been the cause of any wars.
And for your last question.....fuck bush :D [/b][/quote]
Todd, that's as incorrect as blaming terrorism on Muslims. It's not the religions fault, it's the way people go about believing it.
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