Vegetarians

[Mark]

I was inspired by some recent posts and a very wise man who refers to himself as 'Maddox' to write this.

Many think that by cutting off their supply of meat and boning up on eating vegetables and fruits helps save the animal kingdom, eh? They couldn't be more wrong.

Every year, millions of free-roaming animals are killed during the harvest of your vegetables that they've claimed as their only food source. Rats, field mice, voles, and many other species of rodents, even birds! By buying these vegetables, they give more money to the farmers that slaughter these animals. And these animals endure even more pain than a humane spike through the throat to a cow! Their bodies are mangled in the combines, putting them through unbearable torture. Let me ask you this question; if you were to choose which way to die; would it be through swift shot to the head, or by being fed through a woodchipper?

Another thing is that lots of bigger animals (elk, deer, antelopes, etc) are killed every year through permitted hunting because they pose a threat to crops. The only way you could ever stop the killing of animals in order for you to get food is if you bought some land, planted your crops by hand, and then picked them yourself without any machinery. Or just give up eating food, but then you'd die within a matter of days. That isn't exactly realistic, right? Vegetarianism is a complete contradiction of what people stand for.

Oh, and this isn't meant to antagonize anyone who is a vegetarian. It's merely a message that what you think you're preventing is only pursuing the problem. Don't shoot the messenger, please.

Check out Maddox's rant on this here (http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html).

[Scarlet]

I didn't read the whole article but I just want to say that I'm not a vegeterian.

I just want to know, for the people that are vegeterians, are there different reasons why people are vegeterians or is it because of the same cause ("to save the animal kingdom")?

[Mark]

Originally posted by ImmortalSoul668@Jul 29 2004, 12:32 AM
I didn't read the whole article but I just want to say that I'm not a vegeterian.

I just want to know, for the people that are vegeterians, are there different reasons why people are vegeterians or is it because of the same cause ("to save the animal kingdom")?
Very good point. I didn't think of that.

This is for those of you who are vegetarians to try to save animals. Not for those of you who are trying to eat healty with all the problems with meat nowadays. That's absolutely fine.

[Glenn]

I used to be a vegetarian a few years ago.

[Canadian Joe]

One of Maddox's best quotes:

"For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three"

:lol:

I found that site about a year ago...it truely is "the best page in the universe"...

:chemist:

[LinkinJunior]

I never tried being a Vegeterian.

[Todd]

yeah, being a vegetarian to save animals is pointless, if all 3,150 LPA members stopped eating meat as of tonight, there wouldn't be any fewer animals killed

[ChooseYourPoison]

I don't know when people are just going to accept it. Cows, deer, whatever meat humans may eat was put on this earth to provide humans with food. It's the foodchain. It's how things work, okay? And really, you DO need meat in your body to help you stay healthy. My stepsister was vegetarian, and she got sick, a lot. People just need to accept it, we need food.

[Dean]

I don't get straight-edge vegeterians or vegans. I kinda agree with HybridMinoda; animals probably weren't put on this planet to provide humans food but eating meat is natural nontheless. And I don't hear about animals being frowned upon for eating meat.

EDIT: Also, why the hell do some vegetarians still eat fish? Are they not part of the animal kingdom? Or is it because they aren't cute like lambs or chicks?

[Will]

Originally posted by HybridMinoda@Jul 29 2004, 03:13 AM
I don't know when people are just going to accept it. Cows, deer, whatever meat humans may eat was put on this earth to provide humans with food. It's the foodchain. It's how things work, okay? And really, you DO need meat in your body to help you stay healthy. My stepsister was vegetarian, and she got sick, a lot. People just need to accept it, we need food.
Exactly. No one gets pissed off when a lion attacks a gazelle, so why should people get pissed when a human kills a cow humanely for its meat?

[rosanna]

i am not a vegetarian. and i feel bad for all the cows and piggies that i eat, but i think that as long as i am not the one killing it, then i am not responsible for its being killed. i do not have to eat meat, and i know that, so if there is suddenly a cow shortage it would not kill me.

i have friends that are vegetarians...but then again i also have friends that say they are vegetarians but go to mcdonalds for a big juicy quarter pounder.

i feel bad for the animals that die, but my stopping of meat consumption is not going to stop other people from eating meat, so the animals are going to die anyway.

[Anya]

My friend actually used to be a vegetarian.. hopefully she'll read this I guess but that's a very very good point I never thought of that.

[Anthony.]

Being vegetarian cause you don't like meat is OK. Being vegetarian because you don't want to kill the animals is simply WRONG.

And the hardcore vegetarians that don't eat anything that comes from animals (milk, cheese and such) have a problem...

The food chain isn't so without a reason.

[Debus]

My aunty and uncle are vegetarian but my uncle has gone veggie because eating meat made him ill and my aunty i think just doesn't like eating meat. They're not doing it to 'save the animal kingdom' atal.

I don't particularly enjoy eating lamb and such but it tastes nice and it's needed and if someone doesn't eat them then as Maddox says, they will get killed anyway.

[Maëlle]

I think people who think that killing animals to eat them never think about two things:

1- First of all, haunting is good 'cause if we didn't kill animals, there'd be way too much on earth, so if we kill them, why not eat them?!

2- I don't think Humans would have evoluated the way they did if they had been vegetarian since forever.

[emmmers]

Originally posted by ImmortalSoul668@Jul 28 2004, 07:02 PM
I just want to know, for the people that are vegeterians, are there different reasons why people are vegeterians or is it because of the same cause ("to save the animal kingdom")?
Most people are vegetarians because it's their religion. I'm pretty positive I read that somewhere.

[Alacrity]

Originally posted by HybridMinoda@Jul 29 2004, 04:13 AM
I don't know when people are just going to accept it. Cows, deer, whatever meat humans may eat was put on this earth to provide humans with food. It's the foodchain. It's how things work, okay? And really, you DO need meat in your body to help you stay healthy. My stepsister was vegetarian, and she got sick, a lot. People just need to accept it, we need food.
I am a vegetarian and I barely get sick at all. I just don't prefer meat and how many problems there are with it these days (recalls, etc). It just isn't my cup of tea, I suppose. I do occasionally eat meat though, only hot dogs and like ground beef in tacos. Those are like the only cases I can tolerate it.

[Will]

Originally posted by Alacrity@Jul 29 2004, 05:24 PM
It just isn't my cup of tea, I suppose.
Who has tea with meat? :lol:

:P

[Mark]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 29 2004, 07:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 29 2004, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 29 2004, 05:24 PM
It just isn&#39;t my cup of tea, I suppose.
Who has tea with meat? :lol:

:P [/b][/quote]
Civilized lions.

[Cassie]

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks+Jul 29 2004, 04:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (When.Karma.Attacks @ Jul 29 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ImmortalSoul668@Jul 28 2004, 07:02 PM
I just want to know, for the people that are vegeterians, are there different reasons why people are vegeterians or is it because of the same cause ("to save the animal kingdom")?
Most people are vegetarians because it&#39;s their religion. I&#39;m pretty positive I read that somewhere. [/b][/quote]
Religion, economics, personal decisions...

I made the decision to become a pollo vegetarian (I eat veggies and fruit, milk products and only chicken) because I don&#39;t really care for other meats. Plus I&#39;m quite concerned for the animals and their rights.

[Disturbed]

I don&#39;t think I could ever be a vegetarian... I gotta eat some type of meat....

bacon, burgers, chicken... its all good

not that veggies aren&#39;t good... its just i gotta have some meat

[Paygun Poetree]

I have read a few replies thus far and this is absolutely disgusting. Seems like many are just misinformed. Look if you eat a little beef in tacos, or any beef at all you are not a vegetarian. I am and 16 year old vegan that has been living this way for well over a year and have never gotten sick.

I will reply to a few of these arguments, and Maddox is not a wise man, but a careless #######. I do enjoy his site though. Eating meat is selfish, and missing it is a small price to pay for the sake of others.You abuse animals by paying other people to torture and kill them for your consumption. When you buy meat you directly demand this (http://meetyourmeat.com). There is something you can do about it: not create a market demand for dead flesh.

I foresee the argument "Plants are living, and you are killing them". Plants do not contain a central nervous system or a concious. The hanging of a cow by it&#39;s hind legs are still standard farming procedures. And whether or not someone thinks something is big and dumb does not justify the taking of its life. Ones mentality should never be the reason it should be killed. I certainly hope one would not be fine with killing the mentally disabled.

The slit the cows throat and rarely use the spike, trust me this method is effective. Feel between your chest and neck: there is a soft spot. A cow has an equivalent of that. The man working the "kill floor" will insert a sharp tipped blade directly into that area, and rip downward, severing a major arterie. A combination of blood pressure (remember the cow has been upside down for a while now; all of the blood is rushing toward the head and neck) and gravity allows the blood to flow so fast that the majority of it goes down a drain in the middle of the slanted floor and can&#39;t be caught in the bucket the same man is holding. You can see the animal gasping for air, and you can see in its eyes that it knows it is suffering, and that it knows it is going to die. Sometimes, the cow or pig (they are killed in the same manner) will kick so violently that it will break free of the harness around its legs, and hit the floor, convulsing in a pool of blood both his own and of his brothers, sisters, and fellow animals, until it finally breathes no more.

Please, don&#39;t shrug off such acts.

The air compressed spike is reserved for killing animals when they are not growing fast enough, and when keeping them alive until slaughter is more expensive than killing them immediately. Spikes, though, cost money, so sometimes the "runts" of the litter will be picked up by the hind legs and have their heads thrown against the concrete floor of the pens they are forced to live in, which are barely large enough to house their bodies, until they die.

Now for the infamous "We are at the top of the food chain, hunting is necessary because of the rising population of animals that will soon result in overpopulation". Humans are no longer a part of the food chain. Unless a being can become victim to that same chain, and to the natural detriments of life, it cannot be considered a part of nature. Through technology humans have removed themselves from nature. We can survive HEALTHIER without UNNATURALLY torturing and slaughtering (not killing, slaughtering) sentient beings.

Animals only become overpopulated BECAUSE of hunting. Nature seeks, and always attains, balance. When you kill, say, deer, that means that less vegetation is getting eaten. When less vegetation gets eaten, there is more. The deer breed insanely because of this, and all of the young deer survive because there is enough food for a short period of time. Eventually they exhaust their food supply. This happens naturally during droughts and heavy rain seasons, but eventually the population will level out. However, with the annual occurence of hunting season, the populations are never allowed to level, and are left constantly fluxuating. Population control is just an excuse to kill, and we all know that thought is secondary (if at all present) in every hunter&#39;s mind. Not to mention that that argument is complete bullshit, because it is based off of false/deceptive information.

Anyone who has taken a high school biology course could confirm what I&#39;ve said above.

For fun, let&#39;s talk about something else: human anatomy. The human intestine: long, like an herbivore. Better suited to digest complex carbohydrates and fibers. A human intestine allows excess cholesterol to be absorbed into the body. All the cholesterol needed for a human to survive is produced within the body; any excess is dangerous and harmful. Cholesterol is only obtained through food from animal products, so avoiding animal products is in the best interest of the modern human.

Why is cholesterol not harmful to a carnivore? A carnivore&#39;s intestine is short, and food is digested so quickly that cholesterol is not absorbed into the body. Since a humans intestine is so much more similar to an herbivore&#39;s than a carnivore&#39;s, does it not make sense for a human to adopt a herbivorous diet?

The human canine is much better suited for tearing through tough vegetables than through flesh. If a human were intended to eat meat, it would be able to chew raw meat with ease. I doubt you can do it. Being the meat enthusiast you claim to be, I&#39;m sure you have a nice 20 pound steak lying around. Hell, you probably have 5. Try tearing through one raw and tell me if it seems like nature streamlined your teeth and jaw to do so. I doubt you will be able to say that it does.

the life of an animal on a modern factory farm IS torture. The meat that you buy at the store WAS TORTURED. There is no such thing as killing humanely, and if there were modern farming techniques would be far from it.

Cows do not fatten themselves up, they are pumped full of hormones and unnatural food. Pigs will often break their legs with their own body weight because of these techniques. Animals never get veterinary treatment because it is too costly. Even animals with cancerous lesions are considered USDA pure. TUMORS are deemed acceptable, but the conditions are humane...

Not to mention the standard procedures I outlined in my above paragraphs (severing arteries, death by being smached against concrete... I didn&#39;t even touch on the horrible (perhaps worst of all) conditions of chickens...)

Meat adversely affects all forms of life, you, the animal, our world. About %60 percent of our population will perish from heart related disease, most which are derived from the food people choose to eat. I don&#39;t know if you are aware of the IMMENSE amount of pollution factory farms create then I think you should look into it, for if you really care you will seek out this information yourself. You seem confindent in your stance, you should have nothing to fear.

Aside from the pollution it causes it makes absolutely no sense to feed an animal more food than you are getting from it, adding to the already increasing starving population, or at least not helping it any:

Daily water usage in the US for...
An omnivore : 4,200 Gallons
A vegetarian: 1,200 Gallons
A vegan: 300 Gallons

Yearly land usage in the US for food...
An omnivore : 3.3 Acres
A vegetarian: 1/2 Acre
A vegan: 1/6 Acre

To make one pound of "food"...
Pound of beef = 2,500 Gallons of water
Pound of apples = 49 Gallons of water
Pound of lettuce = 23 Gallons of water

To make one pound of "food"...
Pound of meat = 7 pounds of grain or soy
Pound of grain or soy = 1 pound of grain or soy

To learn the facts behind what meat (and all other animal) production does to our world and then to continue to eat meat is like giving the finger to every living thing on Earth. It&#39;s acknowledging that we have a limited number of resources (which, hopefully, we all ready knew), and that we&#39;re running through them at as much as 14 times faster (vegan to omnivore comparison), just as a matter of preference. We prefer to eat certain things, and that&#39;s really just more important that starving countries, fatally polluted waters, or land that&#39;s too desiccated to produce food any longer.

Now for the rodent question that started this all. Yes you will always be the oppressor in some way but in this situation you are causing as less suffering as possible. Although millions of rodents may be indirectly killed by vegans such as my self. Over 25 billion animals are being killed directly by people like you. I tire of this task of speaking for those without a voice but it is something someone has to do.

[Jila]

i didnt want to post in this topic because i get enough shit from people who bother me for being a vegetarian, but fuck it, ill just reply to some.


Cows, deer, whatever meat humans may eat was put on this earth to provide humans with food.
actually the first humans ate seeds and didnt start eating meat until they learned how to make weapons


My stepsister was vegetarian, and she got sick, a lot.
i got a bit sick because i had nothing to eat in my freezer. well i was more hungry than sick actually


Also, why the hell do some vegetarians still eat fish? Are they not part of the animal kingdom? Or is it because they aren&#39;t cute like lambs or chicks?
if they eat fish or poultry they arent vegetarians and its probably for health reasons. if they say they are vegetarians they could possibly be either dumb or misinformed.


why should people get pissed when a human kills a cow humanely for its meat
they dont exactly kill them humanely. i have a friend that visited her grandfather in mexico and he slaughtered a cow in front of her two brothers by sliting its throat and stomach. they said it was gagging and choking on its blood.


First of all, haunting is good &#39;cause if we didn&#39;t kill animals, there&#39;d be way too much on earth, so if we kill them, why not eat them?&#33;
there are way too many people on this earth, why dont we start killing them. and since theyre dead, we should eat them too.

oh, and i agree with everything Paygun Poetree said.

the end.

[Will]

I love how Paygun Poetree completely ignored the part where millions of animals are killed and tortured far worse than any animal in a slaughter house every year by getting caught in the combines of your precious grains and cereals...

[Dean]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 30 2004, 11:02 AM
I love how Paygun Poetree completely ignored the part where millions of animals are killed and tortured far worse than any animal in a slaughter house every year by getting caught in the combines of your precious grains and cereals...
Exactly&#33; What&#39;s more, nobody gives a #### when the victims are rodents and not cute, ikkuw farmyard animals.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 30 2004, 08:32 AM
I love how Paygun Poetree completely ignored the part where millions of animals are killed and tortured far worse than any animal in a slaughter house every year by getting caught in the combines of your precious grains and cereals...
Exactly.

Paygun: You&#39;re absolutely blind to the fact that those vegetables, fruits and grain that you&#39;re eating have been the product of millions of rodents and other animals getting tortured and mangled in harvest combines. You cannot refute that. That makes vegetarianism very hypocritical. So I guess rats and mice may not look as cute as cows, but they&#39;re still living animals, and if you were a true animal activist you&#39;d give up eating altogether because animals are still being killed to make your food.

[Anthony.]

Yay, I&#39;m selfish cause I eat meat. Wow...

It&#39;s a fact the human body needs stuff contained in meat. A vegetarian can be healthy but there&#39;s always something missing.

You know, people should realize we&#39;re all on Earth for each other. Humans and animals have their goals. Well, do you complain when an animal eats an animal? NO&#33; Well, those animals are not vegetarians. What are we, us, humans? ANIMALS&#33; So, why could the tiger eat my ####### supper while I&#39;m stuck eating the herbs?

I respect your choice, but let me eat what I want.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 30 2004, 11:02 AM
I love how Paygun Poetree completely ignored the part where millions of animals are killed and tortured far worse than any animal in a slaughter house every year by getting caught in the combines of your precious grains and cereals...
Brilliant point, I&#39;m definitely in agreement. However "selfish" eating meat may be.

[Todd]

Now I havent read all of Paygun&#39;s load of drivel, but I must ask you this:


Why the fuck do you care what anyone else eats? if I wanted to eat a fresh steaming pile of dog crap, why should you even care? And as I said before, every single member of the LPA could suddenly stop eating meat and that would not reduce the number of animals killed.

[RememberingNever]

I think it&#39;s pointless to not eat meat to save the animal kingdom. :rolleyes:

[Anthony.]

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 30 2004, 12:58 PM
Now I havent read all of Paygun&#39;s load of drivel, but I must ask you this:


Why the fuck do you care what anyone else eats? if I wanted to eat a fresh steaming pile of dog crap, why should you even care? And as I said before, every single member of the LPA could suddenly stop eating meat and that would not reduce the number of animals killed.
:lol:

Want a steak Todd :lol: ?

[rosanna]

Originally posted by Avenger+Jul 30 2004, 05:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Avenger @ Jul 30 2004, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Todd@Jul 30 2004, 12:58 PM
Now I havent read all of Paygun&#39;s load of drivel, but I must ask you this:


Why the fuck do you care what anyone else eats? if I wanted to eat a fresh steaming pile of dog crap, why should you even care? And as I said before, every single member of the LPA could suddenly stop eating meat and that would not reduce the number of animals killed.
:lol:

Want a steak Todd :lol: ? [/b][/quote]
i agree with you guys. i do not like the fact that i am killing a bunch of cows, but my decision to change my eating habits is not going to change anyone else&#39;s eating habits.

i think i may have already said that, but i dont think so.

[The LP Junkie]

in relation to the whole health issue about vegetarianism - i&#39;ve been vegetarian for verging on about 6 years now, and theres only a few times that i&#39;ve gotten sick. i think that there is a way that you can be a healthy person by excluding all meat and becoming a vegetarian, but you have to be careful about the way that you manage your food. so dont OD on one food group such as carbohydrates (pasta, potatoes etc), and maintain a healthy balance of everything (yeah that goes for the people who eat meat too - healthy diets guys) also i think you have to remember that we&#39;re all different, so each will take to the lack of meat in their own way. i know some who have been vegetarians for almost all their lives and they&#39;ve never had health problems, but i also know some vegetarians who get sick yet still have a good lifestyle. its just the way that we&#39;re built.

ok when i decided i wanted to become vegetarian, i wasnt doing it because i thought "aw animals are really cute i dont want to eat them. chicks are really cute." or "i want to be an eco-warrior and save the planet", i just felt that i couldnt handle the fact that they were dead, and i that i was eating them when i knew that there was another way that i could live.

i&#39;ve read pretty much most of Paygun Poetree&#39;s post, and i vaguely see what she&#39;s trying to say.. but there are some things i have to pick up on.

"I am and 16 year old vegan that has been living this way for well over a year and have never gotten sick."
i think perhaps you should wait a little while to see if you&#39;re going to stay healthy. i was vegetarian for about three years before i started getting sick. then again we&#39;re all different..

"I tire of this task of speaking for those without a voice but it is something someone has to do"
unnecessary - you sound like the lone ranger.

i think everyone should be allowed to eat whatever the hell they want, because as far as i can see, eating meat is just human nature its what "nature" evolved us to do (hey finding out how to make weapons? well they&#39;re gonna be used somehow..). If you choose not to eat it and live by another lifestyle (veganism/vegetarianism), then thats entirely upto the individual.

Theres always going to be a vegetarian vs. meat-eater arguement, but i dont understand why people just dont accept that we can all survive by being part of both lifestyles.

[Todd]

Ive been eating meat my whole life and haven&#39;t gotten sick from it. If you plan your diet right you can stay healthy eating meat.

[Paygun Poetree]

I didn&#39;t ignore the rodent comment. I said you should choose the option which cause less suffering. Re-read my post dipshit. You are always going to be the oppressor in some way and just because some suffering cannot be stopped does not mean we should embrace it all. And for those that are concerned about the lives of those rodents, why are you concerned about their lives and not that of a cow or pig? I do care about whether a rodent dies or not the question is what can I do about it? Nothing. This is not the case for slaughthouses.

And before stated "facts" please make sure they are true or else they are anything but "facts". If you woulve read my entire post I mentioned that it is in fact not need to eat meat. The body does fine without it, if this were not the case why would vegans be living otherwise? The argument is self defeating since it is so absurd. A vegan diet has virtually no cholestoral or fat in it. And no it does not make you healthier if you eat meat. I told you heart disease, derived from what you eat, is the worlds top killer. YOU DO NOT NEED MEAT.

Do I care if you eat dog ####? No. The reason being that it cannot feel pain, does not suffer, and has no conscious. It has no children, brothers and sisters, or parents. I would not tell a mountain lion to stop eating flesh because the mountain lion would not live otherwise. Again, this is not the case with humans, it has been proven that we are better off without meat.

Althought I know whether or not I eat meat the same amount of animals are most likely going to be killed does not mean that it should be tolerated.

Yes I am the lone ranger, well on this board. Those vegetarians that have commented knew nothing on what to say and it overall effects the reputation of all the vegans that know what they are talking about. You would not get sick of vegetarianism after 3 years, but that time your body has adapted to your eating habits. You would be sick around the 3 month period. And yes you did stop eating meat because you felt "aw their cute". Because that means you wuold stop eating meat for moral reasoning, in which you did. Since you realized you were supporting death camps by looking at your plate of flesh.

[Paygun Poetree]

By the way, I am a male ^_^

[Link04]

Gah, I hate missing things, my mistake

[Alacrity]

Originally posted by Link04@Jul 30 2004, 03:04 PM
Hmm, remind me again, Paygun...what are those four pointy teeth in my mouth for?
Reread his original post ;)

[don't do this]

I&#39;ve been a vegan for seven years now but I know that by me not eating meat...there&#39;s not going to be any difference in the animals being slaughtered.I&#39;m not even sticking it up to say that I&#39;m saving the precious wildlife and crap #### cause I know it&#39;s no big deal.But i do get a feeling that I&#39;m doing my part on this, and really,I have nothing against non vegans,you live your life the way you want to,I&#39;ll live mine the way I want to.
Bringing up topics of helpconvertpeople to vegans are utter baseless and provocated by dumb fools who think they can brainwash people and make them think what they want to.

[Paygun Poetree]

You do realize that we are incapable of chewing flesh unless it has been cooked, go ahead try and chew on raw meat. You won&#39;t only be disgusted. you will probably get sick. How natural.

Actually, a vegetarian diet suits the human body better than a diet that includes meat. Carnivorous animals have claws, short digestive tracts, and long, curved fangs. Humans have flat, flexible nails, and our so-called “canine” teeth are minuscule compared to those of carnivores and even compared to vegetarian primates like gorillas and orangutans. Our tiny canine teeth are better suited to biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides. We have flat molars and long digestive tracts that are suited to diets of vegetables, fruits, and grains. Eating meat is hazardous to our health and contributes to heart disease, cancer, and many other health problems.

[don't do this]

you may be right here but you can&#39;t force people to think that way.
someone may love digging into a piece of steak and you can&#39;t stop them.
and meat isn&#39;t harmful to health if eaten in moderate amounts as far as i know

[The LP Junkie]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 06:57 PM
By the way, I am a male* ^_^

lol whoopsie :blush:


you may be right here but you can&#39;t force people to think that way. someone may love digging into a piece of steak and you can&#39;t stop them. and meat isn&#39;t harmful to health if eaten in moderate amounts as far as i know

yeah i think i&#39;m just going back to what i said before, everything eaten in moderate, balanced amouts is fine.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 01:56 PM
Re-read my post dipshit.
namecalling eh? that&#39;ll get you a warning.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 07:11 PM
You do realize that we are incapable of chewing flesh unless it has been cooked, go ahead try and chew on raw meat. You won&#39;t only be disgusted. you will probably get sick. How natural.

Actually, a vegetarian diet suits the human body better than a diet that includes meat. Carnivorous animals have claws, short digestive tracts, and long, curved fangs. Humans have flat, flexible nails, and our so-called “canine” teeth are minuscule compared to those of carnivores and even compared to vegetarian primates like gorillas and orangutans. Our tiny canine teeth are better suited to biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides. We have flat molars and long digestive tracts that are suited to diets of vegetables, fruits, and grains. Eating meat is hazardous to our health and contributes to heart disease, cancer, and many other health problems.
Heh, I guess that&#39;s why man discovered fire.

You&#39;ve made your point about carnivores, but it&#39;s meaningless in the fact that human&#39;s are not carnivores. We&#39;re omnivores.

Edit: I know you already stated that, but then isn&#39;t it useless comparing us to carnivores?

[Paygun Poetree]

Haha, a warning :lol: . Don&#39;t mind me, it was directed towards all the people that brought up that same point that I already replied to. I am just here because a friend of mine told me people were bashing on vegetarians. By all means delete me, I am not a fan of Linkin Park.

On the other hand, anyone listen to Radiohead? Aren&#39;t they fooking awesome? Or The Cure. The Faint. And don&#39;t forget the Mars Volta, if Linkin Park had even half the talent of those guys.

You were comparing us to carnivores, I drew the line. You were implying our teeth are similar to theirs and it therefore justifies our meat consumption. Like I said there is no need for us to kill other animals, aside from rodents I suppose :whistle: . Killing is primitive.

:brad: Why is there a chinese emoticon guy?

[don't do this]

:unsure:

[Link04]

Heh, don&#39;t worry about the threat of a warning. :rolleyes:

I don&#39;t like Linkin Park either, I only post here because Fiona asked me to. And YES, I LOVE Radiohead, though this probably isn&#39;t the thread for it.

And though human teeth are perfectly capable of tearing vegetation, they&#39;re also suitable for cooked meat. That said, I also think it&#39;s far more than coincidence that human discovered fire. Killing may be primitive, but whether it&#39;s justifiable or not is a completely subjective matter.

And I don&#39;t know what the Chinese guy is for....lol ^_^

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Link04@Jul 30 2004, 03:34 PM
Heh, don&#39;t worry about the threat of a warning. :rolleyes:
Ok, so you want one yourself? Keep up the condescending attitude.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:27 PM
Haha, a warning :lol: . Don&#39;t mind me, it was directed towards all the people that brought up that same point that I already replied to. I am just here because a friend of mine told me people were bashing on vegetarians. By all means delete me, I am not a fan of Linkin Park.
pretty pathetic that you waste your time registering on a fan site of a band you&#39;re not even a fan of just to preach to its members.

[Will]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:11 PM
Our tiny canine teeth are better suited to biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides.
How many people do you see running around the plains of the Serenghetti tackling gazelles and tearing into them...?

It&#39;s been proven that meat from those kinds of animals is hundreds of times tougher than meat from pigs or cows, cooked or not.

[Paygun Poetree]

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:27 PM
Haha, a warning :lol: . Don&#39;t mind me, it was directed towards all the people that brought up that same point that I already replied to. I am just here because a friend of mine told me people were bashing on vegetarians. By all means delete me, I am not a fan of Linkin Park.
pretty pathetic that you waste your time registering on a fan site of a band you&#39;re not even a fan of just to preach to its members. [/b][/quote]
I call it dedication.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree+Jul 30 2004, 02:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paygun Poetree @ Jul 30 2004, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:27 PM
Haha, a warning :lol: . Don&#39;t mind me, it was directed towards all the people that brought up that same point that I already replied to. I am just here because a friend of mine told me people were bashing on vegetarians. By all means delete me, I am not a fan of Linkin Park.
pretty pathetic that you waste your time registering on a fan site of a band you&#39;re not even a fan of just to preach to its members.
I call it dedication. [/b][/quote]
whatever.


It would be like me, a Target employee, driving 100 miles to a town where all they have is a Wal Mart to stand outside the doors at WalMart and tell its customers to drive 100 miles back to where I live to shop at Target because I like it better.

[Paygun Poetree]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:11 PM
Our tiny canine teeth are better suited to biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides.
How many people do you see running around the plains of the Serenghetti tackling gazelles and tearing into them...?

It&#39;s been proven that meat from those kinds of animals is hundreds of times tougher than meat from pigs or cows, cooked or not.[/b][/quote]
The Serengeti you mean? Actually I havent seen any, have you?

[Link04]

Originally posted by Nate+Jul 30 2004, 07:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nate @ Jul 30 2004, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Jul 30 2004, 03:34 PM
Heh, don&#39;t worry about the threat of a warning. :rolleyes:
Ok, so you want one yourself? Keep up the condescending attitude. [/b][/quote]
Sorry Nate, I just found it funny that X staff member jumped at the oppurtunity to warn someone who happened to have a good opposing argument the second they put their big toe an inch over the line.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree+Jul 30 2004, 03:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paygun Poetree @ Jul 30 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:11 PM
Our tiny canine teeth are better suited to biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides.
How many people do you see running around the plains of the Serenghetti tackling gazelles and tearing into them...?

It&#39;s been proven that meat from those kinds of animals is hundreds of times tougher than meat from pigs or cows, cooked or not.
The Serengeti you mean? Actually I havent seen any, have you? [/b][/quote]
Dont be a smartass. Thatll end badly.

[Will]

Originally posted by Link04+Jul 30 2004, 02:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Jul 30 2004, 02:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Nate@Jul 30 2004, 07:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Jul 30 2004, 03:34 PM
Heh, don&#39;t worry about the threat of a warning. :rolleyes:
Ok, so you want one yourself? Keep up the condescending attitude.
Sorry Nate, I just found it funny that X staff member jumped at the oppurtunity to warn someone who happened to have a good opposing argument the second they put their big toe an inch over the line. [/b][/quote]
Yeah... except flaming gets you warned no matter what. Try it some time.

[Paygun Poetree]

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 30 2004, 07:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 30 2004, 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:27 PM
Haha, a warning :lol: . Don&#39;t mind me, it was directed towards all the people that brought up that same point that I already replied to. I am just here because a friend of mine told me people were bashing on vegetarians. By all means delete me, I am not a fan of Linkin Park.
pretty pathetic that you waste your time registering on a fan site of a band you&#39;re not even a fan of just to preach to its members.
I call it dedication.
whatever.


It would be like me, a Target employee, driving 100 miles to a town where all they have is a Wal Mart to stand outside the doors at WalMart and tell its customers to drive 100 miles back to where I live to shop at Target because I like it better. [/b][/quote]
Well if you feel strongly enough about it then it shouldnt be an act to do just when it is convienent.

You are going to eat what you are going to eat, fine. Well not really, its not fine. But if you are going to say this and that, which many have done. Then expect people like me to refute your claims. Don&#39;t say "Our teeth...meat is good" "Im going to have a steak right now" "Overpopulation of animals" cause all these comments are anything but humorous and strong arguments. I have yet to find one reason not to go vegan, and even if there was I could probably give you 10 more reasons why to stop eating meat.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Link04+Jul 30 2004, 02:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Jul 30 2004, 02:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Nate@Jul 30 2004, 07:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Jul 30 2004, 03:34 PM
Heh, don&#39;t worry about the threat of a warning. :rolleyes:
Ok, so you want one yourself? Keep up the condescending attitude.
Sorry Nate, I just found it funny that X staff member jumped at the oppurtunity to warn someone who happened to have a good opposing argument the second they put their big toe an inch over the line. [/b][/quote]
I would have warned him if he was on my side. Rules are rules, you break them, you face the consequences.

[The Doctor]

Well heres a reason. Meat has proteins. Our body needs that. Theres many things (vitamins, minerals, etc) that arent in vegetables and are in meat.

[Will]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree+Jul 30 2004, 02:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paygun Poetree @ Jul 30 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by -Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 07:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:27 PM
Haha, a warning :lol: . Don&#39;t mind me, it was directed towards all the people that brought up that same point that I already replied to. I am just here because a friend of mine told me people were bashing on vegetarians. By all means delete me, I am not a fan of Linkin Park.
pretty pathetic that you waste your time registering on a fan site of a band you&#39;re not even a fan of just to preach to its members.
I call it dedication.
whatever.


It would be like me, a Target employee, driving 100 miles to a town where all they have is a Wal Mart to stand outside the doors at WalMart and tell its customers to drive 100 miles back to where I live to shop at Target because I like it better.
Well if you feel strongly enough about it then it shouldnt be an act to do just when it is convienent.

You are going to eat what you are going to eat, fine. Well not really, its not fine. But if you are going to say this and that, which many have done. Then expect people like me to refute your claims. Don&#39;t say "Our teeth...meat is good" "Im going to have a steak right now" "Overpopulation of animals" cause all these comments are anything but humorous and strong arguments. I have yet to find one reason not to go vegan, and even if there was I could probably give you 10 more reasons why to stop eating meat. [/b][/quote]
Tell me, how many animals have you saved lately? Oh, that&#39;s right... none.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 30 2004, 07:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 30 2004, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Link04@Jul 30 2004, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by -Nate@Jul 30 2004, 07:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Link04@Jul 30 2004, 03:34 PM
Heh, don&#39;t worry about the threat of a warning. :rolleyes:
Ok, so you want one yourself? Keep up the condescending attitude.
Sorry Nate, I just found it funny that X staff member jumped at the oppurtunity to warn someone who happened to have a good opposing argument the second they put their big toe an inch over the line.
I would have warned him if he was on my side. Rules are rules, you break them, you face the consequences. [/b][/quote]
Alright, gotcha. Didn&#39;t mean to imply any bias on your part, sorry if I, myself, was out of line.

[Paygun Poetree]

Well it looks like I have one person, Link04, going for me. Don&#39;t be pissy because my argument actually holds water.

Yes rules are rules, I just hadnt read them. Trust me the last thing I wanna do is offend others because that makes me look like a Richard and people will pay attention to my point of view less. But I didn&#39;t realize how strict things are around here, I&#39;m use to going to politcal type forums and hearing people curse at our President or Michael Moore, I will watch my mouth thus forward. What does the W mean?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 03:53 PM
Well it looks like I have one person, Link04, going for me. Don&#39;t be pissy because my argument actually holds water.
We got pissed because you broke a rule and flamed another member. What is so hard about not doing that? Just dont flame anyone and its alright. End of argument.

[Paygun Poetree]

Quoting is taking way to much space.

Proteins, yes. Other than that it is devoid of vitamins and supplements. You can get proteins from places other than murder. I thought my Serengeti question was valid, sorry for correcting you, I didn&#39;t know that kinda thing is taken in offense around here.

Assumptions don&#39;t help you any. Animals saved lately? Over 70 animals are eaten a year per person. I think I saved quite a bit.

[Will]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 02:56 PM
Quoting is taking way to much space.

Proteins, yes. Other than that it is devoid of vitamins and supplements. You can get proteins from places other than murder.

Assumptions don&#39;t help you any. Animals saved lately? Over 70 animals are eaten a year per person. I think I saved quite a bit.
Yeah... 70 out of hundreds of millions isn&#39;t anything. You&#39;re killing and torturing more animals than that in the combines used to harvest your vegetables.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 03:56 PM
Assumptions don&#39;t help you any. Animals saved lately? Over 70 animals are eaten a year per person. I think I saved quite a bit.
Oh no. 70?&#33; Thats like, insane&#33; Comapring that number to the other few billion there are on the planet.

[Paygun Poetree]

:o you have mastered the act of sarcasm. The actual number is 83 but I am not sure if I even ate that much meat when I considered it acceptable. 70 will do though, and that is just from my eating habits alone. What exactly am I suppose to do? I am criticized for helping ONLY 70 while you are satisfied about eating that many. How noble indeed.

It isn&#39;t anything hmm..actually zero wouldn&#39;t be any. And they have moderators like you for such a huge forum. Tsk Tsk. I am only one person, I can&#39;t save millions of animals at a time, if I could I would.

[Will]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 03:02 PM
It isn&#39;t anything hmm..actually zero wouldn&#39;t be any. And they have moderators like you for such a huge forum. Tsk Tsk.
Let&#39;s not partake in the insulting of intelligence, here.

[The Doctor]

Im getting out of this now before I get warned.

[Maëlle]

I could probably give you 10 more reasons why to stop eating meat.


Go. I&#39;m reading you.

[Paygun Poetree]

Read the whole agreement. YOu have to give me a reason I haven&#39;t already refuted.

What is this with the huge signatures. Is there a "Who can take up the most space with every post" contest that I dont know about?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 04:09 PM
What is this with the huge signatures. Is there a "Who can take up the most space with every post" contest that I dont know about?
Why should you give a damn?

[Will]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 03:09 PM
What is this with the huge signatures. Is there a "Who can take up the most space with every post" contest that I dont know about?
No... they&#39;re just signatures...

[Paygun Poetree]

Originally posted by Nate+Jul 30 2004, 08:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nate @ Jul 30 2004, 08:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 04:09 PM
What is this with the huge signatures. Is there a "Who can take up the most space with every post" contest that I dont know about?
Why should you give a damn? [/b][/quote]
I guess you win the contest. Yay.

[Will]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree+Jul 30 2004, 03:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paygun Poetree @ Jul 30 2004, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Nate@Jul 30 2004, 08:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 04:09 PM
What is this with the huge signatures. Is there a "Who can take up the most space with every post" contest that I dont know about?
Why should you give a damn?
I guess you win the contest. Yay. [/b][/quote]
Please stop.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree+Jul 30 2004, 04:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paygun Poetree @ Jul 30 2004, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Nate@Jul 30 2004, 08:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 04:09 PM
What is this with the huge signatures. Is there a "Who can take up the most space with every post" contest that I dont know about?
Why should you give a damn?
I guess you win the contest. Yay. [/b][/quote]
Yep I did. And you can win too. Keep up the attitude and youll win yourself a warning.

[Maëlle]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 04:09 PM
Read the whole agreement. YOu have to give me a reason I haven&#39;t already refuted.
I know it&#39;s been overdone in the atheist vs Christians debates but you didn&#39;t refute the evolution theory my dear.

[Paygun Poetree]

Originally posted by Maëlle+Jul 30 2004, 08:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maëlle @ Jul 30 2004, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 04:09 PM
Read the whole agreement. YOu have to give me a reason I haven&#39;t already refuted.
I know it&#39;s been overdone in the atheist vs Christians debates but you didn&#39;t refute the evolution theory my dear. [/b][/quote]
And which one is that? I havent gone to the religious one, way too many pages. Is this the argument that our ancestors used primitive techniques and since this is modern day times and we no longer act like cave men but should still practice the same eating habits? I thought we were more sophisticated.

[The LP Junkie]

Is this the argument that our ancestors used primitive techniques and since this is modern day times and we no longer act like cave men but should still practice the same eating habits? I thought we were more sophisticated.

are you saying then that people who eat meat are unsophisticated because cave men did it and we&#39;re supposed to have moved on from that? if thats true, then dude i think you&#39;re pretty out of line. ok so i eat berries and fruit and things like cavemen did, am i unsophisticated? what do you have to do to be called sophisticated?

Paygun - listen we all have our own thoughts and opinions which is cool, but when you start blatently saying that people are "unsophisticated" when they eat meat you&#39;re putting far too many toes out of line.

[Paygun Poetree]

Like I said, Killing is very primitive. She asked my thoughts, my opinion, on the evolution argument. I gave it. If people believe that due to the food chain it is acceptable then so be it, but I already talked about that.

From what I said before "Feel between your chest and neck: there is a soft spot. A cow has an equivalent of that. The man working the "kill floor" will insert a sharp tipped blade directly into that area, and rip downward, severing a major arterie. A combination of blood pressure (remember the cow has been upside down for a while now; all of the blood is rushing toward the head and neck) and gravity allows the blood to flow so fast that the majority of it goes down a drain in the middle of the slanted floor and can&#39;t be caught in the bucket the same man is holding. You can see the animal gasping for air, and you can see in its eyes that it knows it is suffering, and that it knows it is going to die. Sometimes, the cow or pig (they are killed in the same manner) will kick so violently that it will break free of the harness around its legs, and hit the floor, convulsing in a pool of blood both his own and of his brothers, sisters, and fellow animals, until it finally breathes no more."

This is not sophisticated.

[Todd]

And how do you know thats how they really kill animals? And dont tell me its from PETA because I wouldn&#39;t trust any information from them even if it was the answer to a kindergarten math problem

[Mark]

I didn&#39;t ignore the rodent comment. I said you should choose the option which cause less suffering. Re-read my post dipshit. You are always going to be the oppressor in some way and just because some suffering cannot be stopped does not mean we should embrace it all. And for those that are concerned about the lives of those rodents, why are you concerned about their lives and not that of a cow or pig? I do care about whether a rodent dies or not the question is what can I do about it? Nothing. This is not the case for slaughthouses.

I could care less about rodents or cows or whatever else is getting killed, but when people say they&#39;re a vegetarian to save animals, it&#39;s pure hypocrisy. That&#39;s what boils my blood. Suddenly some vegetarians think they&#39;re better people than us because we eat meat and they choose their vegetarian diet.

Want to save the lives of the rodents? Simple; arrange a group of your animal-hugging friends, go to a nearby farmhouse, and threaten the farmer to either pick his crops by hand or you&#39;ll take sledgehammers to his equipment and burn his house down. May sound insane, but it may work. Want to save all these cows killed in slaughterhouses? Go on a fire-bombing campaign. Burn down every slaughterhouse in America. Sure, some cows may die in the fires, but you&#39;ll save tons more&#33;

What makes it incredibly dumb is that you think you can change something by just altering your diet. There&#39;s absolutely nothing that will change how and why cows are killed. A cow slaughterer isn&#39;t going to stop what he&#39;s doing because he sees someone eating vegetables and fruits instead of cows. That asinine. Alright, you see that it "can&#39;t be stopped". But what&#39;s the sense in trying to change the inevitable and unstoppable? That&#39;s a waste of time.

It&#39;s the same thing with the vast majority of you vegetarians. Fine, don&#39;t go eat meat. But don&#39;t shove your beliefs down our throats and expect us to suddenly become psychopathic vegetarians like you.

[Paygun Poetree]

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 30 2004, 09:16 PM
And how do you know thats how they really kill animals? And dont tell me its from PETA because I wouldn&#39;t trust any information from them even if it was the answer to a kindergarten math problem
Actually that is standard farming procedure, and if you do not believe in PETA you should check some of thier videos they have produced by going into farms with such standards. I don&#39;t see how a video aren&#39;t a good source. And lets hope you wouldnt need help for a kindergarten math problem.

[Mark]

And lets hope you wouldnt need help for a kindergarten math problem.
You can either stop being so damn condescending to others or you can leave. Put your point across in a more peaceful way instead of insulting everyone who disagrees with you. That&#39;s childish. You can get off your high horse now or go back to wherever you came from.

[Paygun Poetree]

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 30 2004, 09:26 PM

I didn&#39;t ignore the rodent comment. I said you should choose the option which cause less suffering. Re-read my post dipshit. You are always going to be the oppressor in some way and just because some suffering cannot be stopped does not mean we should embrace it all. And for those that are concerned about the lives of those rodents, why are you concerned about their lives and not that of a cow or pig? I do care about whether a rodent dies or not the question is what can I do about it? Nothing. This is not the case for slaughthouses.

I could care less about rodents or cows or whatever else is getting killed, but when people say they&#39;re a vegetarian to save animals, it&#39;s pure hypocrisy. That&#39;s what boils my blood. Suddenly some vegetarians think they&#39;re better people than us because we eat meat and they choose their vegetarian diet.

Want to save the lives of the rodents? Simple; arrange a group of your animal-hugging friends, go to a nearby farmhouse, and threaten the farmer to either pick his crops by hand or you&#39;ll take sledgehammers to his equipment and burn his house down. May sound insane, but it may work. Want to save all these cows killed in slaughterhouses? Go on a fire-bombing campaign. Burn down every slaughterhouse in America. Sure, some cows may die in the fires, but you&#39;ll save tons more&#33;

What makes it incredibly dumb is that you think you can change something by just altering your diet. There&#39;s absolutely nothing that will change how and why cows are killed. A cow slaughterer isn&#39;t going to stop what he&#39;s doing because he sees someone eating vegetables and fruits instead of cows. That asinine. Alright, you see that it "can&#39;t be stopped". But what&#39;s the sense in trying to change the inevitable and unstoppable? That&#39;s a waste of time.

It&#39;s the same thing with the vast majority of you vegetarians. Fine, don&#39;t go eat meat. But don&#39;t shove your beliefs down our throats and expect us to suddenly become psychopathic vegetarians like you.
I certainly dont hope you think burning down buildings and peoples lives actually help any. Some of us are civilized and have morals. I don&#39;t expect my veganism and animal rights advocation to make an immediate change but it will make a change nonetheless, whether it be during my life span or two millenia from now.

I have already brought up the rodent argument more than once.

From a moral standpoint, actions that harm others are not matters of personal choice. For example, murder, child abuse, and cruelty to animals are immoral acts, not matters of choice. Today, our society encourages meat-eating and factory farming, but at one time, society also encouraged slavery, child labor, and many other practices that are now universally recognized as wrong. And if my argument doesnt change any well then so be it, I am at least going to make the effort.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree+Jul 30 2004, 07:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paygun Poetree @ Jul 30 2004, 07:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 30 2004, 09:26 PM

I didn&#39;t ignore the rodent comment. I said you should choose the option which cause less suffering. Re-read my post dipshit. You are always going to be the oppressor in some way and just because some suffering cannot be stopped does not mean we should embrace it all. And for those that are concerned about the lives of those rodents, why are you concerned about their lives and not that of a cow or pig? I do care about whether a rodent dies or not the question is what can I do about it? Nothing. This is not the case for slaughthouses.

I could care less about rodents or cows or whatever else is getting killed, but when people say they&#39;re a vegetarian to save animals, it&#39;s pure hypocrisy. That&#39;s what boils my blood. Suddenly some vegetarians think they&#39;re better people than us because we eat meat and they choose their vegetarian diet.

Want to save the lives of the rodents? Simple; arrange a group of your animal-hugging friends, go to a nearby farmhouse, and threaten the farmer to either pick his crops by hand or you&#39;ll take sledgehammers to his equipment and burn his house down. May sound insane, but it may work. Want to save all these cows killed in slaughterhouses? Go on a fire-bombing campaign. Burn down every slaughterhouse in America. Sure, some cows may die in the fires, but you&#39;ll save tons more&#33;

What makes it incredibly dumb is that you think you can change something by just altering your diet. There&#39;s absolutely nothing that will change how and why cows are killed. A cow slaughterer isn&#39;t going to stop what he&#39;s doing because he sees someone eating vegetables and fruits instead of cows. That asinine. Alright, you see that it "can&#39;t be stopped". But what&#39;s the sense in trying to change the inevitable and unstoppable? That&#39;s a waste of time.

It&#39;s the same thing with the vast majority of you vegetarians. Fine, don&#39;t go eat meat. But don&#39;t shove your beliefs down our throats and expect us to suddenly become psychopathic vegetarians like you.
I certainly hope you think burning down buildings and peoples lives actually help any. Some of us are civilized and have morals. I don&#39;t expect my veganism and animal rights advocation to make an immediate change but it will make a change nonetheless, whether it be during my life span or two millenia from now.

I have already brought up the rodent argument more than once.

From a moral standpoint, actions that harm others are not matters of personal choice. For example, murder, child abuse, and cruelty to animals are immoral acts, not matters of choice. Today, our society encourages meat-eating and factory farming, but at one time, society also encouraged slavery, child labor, and many other practices that are now universally recognized as wrong. And if my argument doesnt change any well then so be it, I am at least going to make the effort. [/b][/quote]
Well, you obviously don&#39;t comprehend sarcasm. (And that last sentence wasn&#39;t sarcastic, by the way ;)).

Fine, go on wasting your time. See if I care. The only thing wrong with time is that it isn&#39;t refundable. Oh well.

[Kæton]

I&#39;ve seen videos of chickens having their heads cut off, I&#39;ve seen cows being stabbed in the necks, and I still eat burgers and chicken. I had chicken for dinner last night. Why? Because I need to live. If I chose to either die or eat the piece of meat sitting next to me, I&#39;d go with Darwin&#39;s theory of survival of the fittest and hope Natural Selection will let me live by eating the great piece of meat in front of me instead of the shrubs growing out of the ground... It&#39;s more filling and I get more of what I need to function good.

Just my opinion. I like to live and to it&#39;s fullest. I even know how they get to how they are and I still eat it. Call me weird, call me morbid, but oh well, maybe my stomach to seeing the death of animals is stronger than those who turn their cheek to the death of a cycle which will keep us alive. That&#39;s what life is all about. You live, you work to survive and then you die. The cycle continues to go and you can never break it unless there is a sudden drought or something to that effect. Can&#39;t change my mind, though. Send me all the videos you want of animals dying, I&#39;m still going to go down to my local McDonalds or KFC and have me a good ol&#39; meal to keep me alive. Sorry to be so blunt, but I&#39;m not going to lie.

[Anthony.]

OK, Paygun, first you lost all credibility and respect from us because of your negative attitude.

Then, your lack of willingness to accept people (and many of them) may think in an other way then you do is simply a lack of logic.

You feel the need to change habits of people wich have been so since many, many years, especially since as we see today there has been no real negative effects (and more than ever cause we&#39;re careful with species in danger) and it&#39;s hard to understand.

It looks like you registered here just to give us ####, talk to us in a vulgar manner and reject all our opinions like you reject meat.

Mind to get a better attitude?

[RememberingNever]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 05:44 PM
And if my argument doesnt change any well then so be it, I am at least going to make the effort.
I don&#39;t think your argument is going to change the way people eat. Chickens, cows, pigs and ect.. arn&#39;t endangered and well, most people have been eating meat all their lives. You can make the effort but I don&#39;t think it will change anything anytime soon.

I&#39;m not a Vegetarian.. cheese burgers are way too good. :rolleyes:

[don't do this]

It&#39;s completely baseless ,people think they think they can preach others to join their bandwagon of turned vegans.
If someone thinks they&#39;re doing their part by not eating meat,they can continue to but then everyone has the right to choose what they want to eat and people love their chicken way to much to listen &#33;&#33; ;)

[Maëlle]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree+Jul 30 2004, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paygun Poetree @ Jul 30 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Maëlle@Jul 30 2004, 08:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 04:09 PM
Read the whole agreement. YOu have to give me a reason I haven&#39;t already refuted.
I know it&#39;s been overdone in the atheist vs Christians debates but you didn&#39;t refute the evolution theory my dear.
And which one is that? I havent gone to the religious one, way too many pages. Is this the argument that our ancestors used primitive techniques and since this is modern day times and we no longer act like cave men but should still practice the same eating habits? I thought we were more sophisticated. [/b][/quote]
Just because we got cars, roller blade and bicycles, did we stop walking?

[Chris(tmas)]

Like Maddox said on his website..

If you&#39;re not going to eat 1, i&#39;ll eat 3



A person has to live, and you&#39;re not going to live that long if you&#39;re just going on leaves and strawberry&#39;s you know ;) Soooo.. we&#39;ve been for almost 16 million years primitive. Thats a LONG time you know... and you&#39;re the only one that says that. Now thats strange. You&#39;re the only one. Not even Einstein said it. Neither did Leonardo Da Vinci. Thats kinda strange. Maybe, because what you&#39;re saying, isnt completely right. If we were primitive, we would still be riding a Mercedes with stone wheels, and we have to run in our car just to get 10 mph.

And just for a tease.. I LOVE CHICKEN&#33; Specially their wings. I love how they get chopped off, and they&#39;re yummy with some fries. I like cows too you know, and pigs&#33; Yum yum&#33; But you&#39;re not going to taste it

Because &#39;I wanna rescue the animal kingdom&#33;&#39;. Like the animal kingdom has his own country :wth: :lol: Or his own king/queen. It doesnt really matter if you dont eat meat though. The farmer will slaughter the same amount of cows every week/month. Oh well, one cow more for tomorrow huh? :)

[Messy Marj]

Originally posted by Chris@Jul 31 2004, 08:58 PM
Like Maddox said on his website..

If you&#39;re not going to eat 1, i&#39;ll eat 3



A person has to live, and you&#39;re not going to live that long if you&#39;re just going on leaves and strawberry&#39;s you know ;) Soooo.. we&#39;ve been for almost 16 million years primitive. Thats a LONG time you know... and you&#39;re the only one that says that. Now thats strange. You&#39;re the only one. Not even Einstein said it. Neither did Leonardo Da Vinci. Thats kinda strange. Maybe, because what you&#39;re saying, isnt completely right. If we were primitive, we would still be riding a Mercedes with stone wheels, and we have to run in our car just to get 10 mph.

And just for a tease.. I LOVE CHICKEN&#33; Specially their wings. I love how they get chopped off, and they&#39;re yummy with some fries. I like cows too you know, and pigs&#33; Yum yum&#33; But you&#39;re not going to taste it

Because &#39;I wanna rescue the animal kingdom&#33;&#39;. Like the animal kingdom has his own country :wth: :lol: Or his own king/queen. It doesnt really matter if you dont eat meat though. The farmer will slaughter the same amount of cows every week/month. Oh well, one cow more for tomorrow huh? :)
:lol: My thouhts&#33;

[Paygun Poetree]

And people are bitching at me for being inconsiderate? Everything you people have brought up in the last few posts has been explained and its your own ignorance that is eluding the truth. If you think vegans live off leaves and strawberries well then you make yourself look like an idiot for such an assumption. When you realize that your way of life is wrong you result to bland humor. I have went through several debates to learn such.

[Will]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Aug 1 2004, 07:09 PM
And people are bitching at me for being inconsiderate? Everything you people have brought up in the last few posts has been explained and its your own ignorance that is eluding the truth. If you think vegans live off leaves and strawberries well then you make yourself look like an idiot for such an assumption. When you realize that your way of life is wrong you result to bland humor. I have went through several debates to learn such.
Yeah, joking like that may have been wrong, but someone who eats meat is wrong? I see you aren&#39;t very accepting of the opinions and lifestyles of others.

[Anthony.]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Aug 1 2004, 08:09 PM
And people are bitching at me for being inconsiderate? Everything you people have brought up in the last few posts has been explained and its your own ignorance that is eluding the truth. If you think vegans live off leaves and strawberries well then you make yourself look like an idiot for such an assumption. When you realize that your way of life is wrong you result to bland humor. I have went through several debates to learn such.
MY WAY OF LIFE IS OFF. :lol:

MY WAY OF LIFE IS OFF. :lol:

Ouch, falling out of a chair hurts :lol: .

[Maëlle]

Originally posted by Avenger+Aug 1 2004, 08:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Avenger @ Aug 1 2004, 08:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Aug 1 2004, 08:09 PM
And people are bitching at me for being inconsiderate? Everything you people have brought up in the last few posts has been explained and its your own ignorance that is eluding the truth. If you think vegans live off leaves and strawberries well then you make yourself look like an idiot for such an assumption. When you realize that your way of life is wrong you result to bland humor. I have went through several debates to learn such.
MY WAY OF LIFE IS OFF. :lol:

MY WAY OF LIFE IS OFF. :lol:

Ouch, falling out of a chair hurts :lol: .[/b][/quote]
:lol:

Strangely, everytime I come in this topic, I feel like eating roasted chicken...

@ Paygun: Look, your intentions are &#39;&#39;honorable&#39;&#39; but honestly, I think it&#39;s a lost battle. Do you really expect changing something to this world by coming here and insulting us because we&#39;re omnivores? Everybody in here has his or her own opinions and we try to respect each other&#39;s. It&#39;s sure that sometimes, we get a bit carried away by the debate but I think that insulting us because we follow natural instincts or habits is too much coming from you. And I think the purpose of this topic in the first place wasn&#39;t to create a huge debate but just knowing what are our opinions on vegetarism (But I could be wrong as I don&#39;t read Mark&#39;s mind). So just stop it.

[Mark]

It&#39;s obvious some people don&#39;t understand the concepts of implied exaggeration and sarcasm. *glares at Paygun* :rolleyes:

You&#39;re the most narrow-minded person on Earth. The fact that you&#39;re a vegan makes the way we live our lives wrong? Because you choose different things, our morals are wrong? Are you some kind of self-made god? Do you seriously consider yourself to always be right, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong? You&#39;re a misguided, egotistical, condescending, blasphemous jerk. Everything about you screams "hypocrite". If you wish to be torn apart, keep posting here. Your ways of life are not automatically right because all of a sudden the almighty Paygun Poetree choses to be different. Get a damn reality check.

And don&#39;t call others idiots. That&#39;s a second warning.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Mark@Aug 1 2004, 09:28 PM
It&#39;s obvious some people don&#39;t understand the concepts of implied exaggeration and sarcasm. *glares at Paygun* :rolleyes:

You&#39;re the most narrow-minded person on Earth. The fact that you&#39;re a vegan makes the way we live our lives wrong? Because you choose different things, our morals are wrong? Are you some kind of self-made god? Do you seriously consider yourself to always be right, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong? You&#39;re a misguided, egotistical, condescending, blasphemous jerk. Everything about you screams "hypocrite". If you wish to be torn apart, keep posting here. Your ways of life are not automatically right because all of a sudden the almighty Paygun Poetree choses to be different. Get a damn reality check.

And don&#39;t call others idiots. That&#39;s a second warning.
http://www.tiiite.com/pics/justin-owned.jpg

[LinkinJunior]

:lol:

[Dean]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Aug 2 2004, 12:09 AM
And people are bitching at me for being inconsiderate? Everything you people have brought up in the last few posts has been explained and its your own ignorance that is eluding the truth. If you think vegans live off leaves and strawberries well then you make yourself look like an idiot for such an assumption. When you realize that your way of life is wrong you result to bland humor. I have went through several debates to learn such.
:lol:

[Messy Marj]

You go Mark&#33; :lol:

[Will]

Originally posted by Dean+Aug 2 2004, 03:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dean @ Aug 2 2004, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Paygun Poetree@Aug 2 2004, 12:09 AM
And people are bitching at me for being inconsiderate? Everything you people have brought up in the last few posts has been explained and its your own ignorance that is eluding the truth. If you think vegans live off leaves and strawberries well then you make yourself look like an idiot for such an assumption. When you realize that your way of life is wrong you result to bland humor. I have went through several debates to learn such.
:lol: [/b][/quote]
That&#39;s exactly what I thought...

[Maëlle]

Huh, if vegan don&#39;t live of leaves and strawberries, what do they eat? I mean, if I&#39;m not wrong, the concept of being vegan is to only eat vegetables and fruits, right? :unsure:

[Chris(tmas)]

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Aug 2 2004, 02:09 AM
And people are bitching at me for being inconsiderate? Everything you people have brought up in the last few posts has been explained and its your own ignorance that is eluding the truth. If you think vegans live off leaves and strawberries well then you make yourself look like an idiot for such an assumption. When you realize that your way of life is wrong you result to bland humor. I have went through several debates to learn such.
Check up this word in a dictonairy




Sarcasm


Im 100% full of sarcasm, so when i say you live of strawberry&#39;s, im joking

Next word you should check: Joking


And owned, because Mark did that :)

[EvilDude]

I&#39;m a Vegetarian, and it&#39;s coz of Religion.

I myself don&#39;t care whether other people eat meat or not, it doesn&#39;t affect me, and the whole cruel to animals thing doesn&#39;t bother me much :P

[Link04]

So what religion are you, exactly?

[Chris(tmas)]

I think he&#39;s Islam, because they cant eat meat

or cant they eat pigs and cows? :unsure:

[Link04]

^ that may or may not be Judaism, because they&#39;re forbidden to eat animals with cloven hooves, which are supposedly representing of the devil. I&#39;m not sure though.

[don't do this]

I guess he&#39;s Hindu or a Jain though I&#39;m not very sure because there are other religions too which shun off meat.

I&#39;m Hindu but I am a vegan by sole choice

[EvilDude]

^ I&#39;m Hindu too. And I don&#39;t *have* to be vegetarian either, but it&#39;s just mum didn&#39;t eat meat, and so neither did I...

[Kate]

I&#39;m not a vegetarian because I don&#39;t think I could go a week without meat. Being raised Catholic and not being able to eat meat on Fridays during Lent is bad enough.

A question: What do vegetarians on Atkins eat?

[Jila]

Originally posted by katethegreat@Aug 7 2004, 10:56 AM
A question: What do vegetarians on Atkins eat?
im pretty sure vegetarians cant be on the atkins diet since its basically saying eat a whole bunch of meat and no carbs.

[lpchick97]

i myself am not a vegetarian but i do respect vegetarians. that article brings up a good point, i gess vegans should think about it. but most vegans are also activists and they are all for saving the enviroment which is cool. so i gess in a way they can help the world.

[ass_kicker]

can somebody here explain whats the point og being a vegan? i can understand the point of not eating animals. but drinking milk and stuff doesnt harm them. :mellow:

[Kevin]

yeah eating animal is wrong , You can say their already that but when meat doesn&#39;t sell anymore their will be less animals killed ^_^ , But by drinking milk you do nothing wrong

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by 9_9Pr0BLemS@Aug 13 2004, 04:27 PM
yeah eating animal is wrong , You can say their already that but when meat doesn&#39;t sell anymore their will be less animals killed ^_^ , But by drinking milk you do nothing wrong
thats exactly what i mean :mellow:

[Leones]

Vegans don&#39;t use leather for example, because you need to kill an animal before you can use the leather. They don&#39;t drink milk because they think cows need to live their own life and don&#39;t need to get locked up on a piece of grass. They don&#39;t eat eggs because chickens aren&#39;t on this planet to get locked into a cage....etc. They think all animals has to live their own lifes, wich means no cats, no dogs or any other animal as a pet and no use of any animal by humans for anything.

[withnoapologies]

Originally posted by ImmortalSoul668@Jul 29 2004, 03:02 AM
I didn&#39;t read the whole article but I just want to say that I&#39;m not a vegeterian.

I just want to know, for the people that are vegeterians, are there different reasons why people are vegeterians or is it because of the same cause ("to save the animal kingdom")?
I&#39;m a vegetarian, and as soon as i move out of my house i will become a vegan (being vegan now is just TOO inconvinient for my parents) im a vegetarian because A ) the meat is unhealthy, with all the processed stuff that manufacturers put in it B ) I dont want to be a part of the carnivorous stereotype of North Americans C ) the planet is too small for the whole populous to eat meat. (what do cows eat? soy. where does soy grow? the place where the rainforrest used to grow. trees are being cut to grow soy for animals to eat, so that we can eat them... we need that tree oxygen)

and another thing.... you dont need meat.... there are other sources of protein, legumes, soy, nuts, and veggies. and you may ask why i eat soy because of the whole rainforrest thing.... but i get all my food from the local market... and when i say local, i mean across the street. literally. i also have a job there to help out the farmer... and he doesnt use motored technology to help him... hes a menonite.

[Jila]

oh yeah, i just found this thing i had stashed away in my computer file. i will copy and paste.


1. The Original Human Diet -

Humans were not originally suited to eat meat, they are, in fact, suited to consume plants. There is much evidence to support this including: Human beings have no claws, do not perspire through their toungues, do not have sharp pointed front teeth, have flat molar teeth, have salivary glands used to break down primarily starch, have weak hydrocholoric acid (about 20X weaker than the average carnivore), and have very long intestinal tracts (unlike carnivores). All of these traits do correspond to those of the average herbivore, and do contrast with the average carnivore. In addition to this, human DNA is extremely close to that of the chimpanzee, according to evolution we evolved from a common ancestor. Chimpanzees consume meat VERY rarely, and only if they NEED to.

2. The Healthy Life -

Meat eating causes about 60% of all cancers and heart diseases in the United States of America. Meat is also the primary cause of obesity (which afflicts about 2/3 of the adult American population). Vegetarians, on average, live longer than non-vegetarians.
Animals are given anti-biotics and drugs so that they can survive diseases and be slaughtered for meat. These anti-biotics and HORMONES are passed into the human system when the meat is consumed. It is hazardous to health. Strains of bacteria also grow resistant to these anti-biotics and then are able to enter the human body unharmed.

3. The Environmental Disaster -

The meat industry ruins the environment. Animal wastes are often dumped into large holes dug in the ground. From there, the wastes seep through into water systems and contaminate water, causing sickness and pollution. The meat industry also contributes to the massive deforestation throughout the world. Rainforests are chopped down to provide grazing land for animals. In turn, many more animals (including ones that we may not have discovered) lose their homes and become extinct or endangered. Also, trees are the main produces of oxygen on the planet, they are necessary for animal and human life. Rangeland is also destroyed for grazing land.

4. The Humanitarian Issue -

The meat industry has placed many traditional farming families out of jobs. Workers on the new farms are often mistreated by the large corporations and underpaid. People have also lost their land and homes due to the meat industry&#39;s need for more land each and every day.

5. (and finally...) the MEAT IS MURDER issue -

Though it is an opinion, the "meat is murder" issue should, in fact, be valid in any moral person&#39;s mind. The animals which are slaughtered for food are not just slaughtered, they are tortured. For example, hens are kept in cages where they cannot move, their feet grow around the bars of the cages. Baby chicks are suffocated and crushed if they are not needed. Cows are artificially inseminated and injected with hormones. Their udders swell to abnormal sizes so they can produce an unreasonable amount of milk for human consumption. Animals, unlike plants and LIKE US, can feel pain, and therefore we should respect them. Why should we cause unnecessary suffering and harm to innocent creatures? For their taste? If that is the case, then humanity has certainly degraded to an extremely immature and selfish state since the days when we hunted only for survival.

**Wheat is not murder. The animals killed in grain harvests are mostly killed in grain harvested FOR animals which we will slaughter. If we didn&#39;t have those animals to begin with, we wouldn&#39;t need to harvest that grain. The grain that IS harvested for humans is a VERY small percentage of the overall grain harvested in the world.**

[Anthony.]

Nah, we need the proteins we find in meat to be healthy. As for the vegetables, you don&#39;t know if they were actually genetically modified or if they used pest control on them, so I say the meat is totally healthy.

[Link04]

^ Unless you grow it yourself. A few of my family members, )none of who are vegetarians), do grow their own food in more rural places.

[Michele]

I was a Vegitarian for a month.. and then again for a week..

It wasn&#39;t to be healthier or to "save the animal kingdom"

The first time, I had read something about this cow.. she was beatin and straved to death to death because she wouldn&#39;t get out of the truck to go to the place where they kill them..

And the second time my father took me to his friends house and they kill all kinds of animals for food there, and it saddens me I don&#39;t see how someone could kill any animal.. Food or not.


edit: oh, but thats not why i stopped... that just triggered it lol

[Jila]

Originally posted by Avenger@Aug 15 2004, 08:24 AM
Nah, we need the proteins we find in meat to be healthy. As for the vegetables, you don&#39;t know if they were actually genetically modified or if they used pest control on them, so I say the meat is totally healthy.
you can get protein from other things than meat. and as for meat being "totally healthy", i dont know where you got that from.

80,000 birds a day processed. Out of those 80,000, only 15 birds are inspected. Out of those 15, they have to have 3 or more pen abscesses to be pulled off the line.

people who eat meat are at least 30 percent more likely to die of a heart attack, 40 percent more likely to get cancer, and at increased risk for many other diseases and illnesses, including stroke, obesity, appendicitis, osteoporosis, arthritis, diabetes, alzheimers disease, and food poisoning.

and on the vegetable thing, meat contains accumulations of pesticides and other chemicals up to 14 times more concentrated than those found in plant foods.

[Will]

I got food poisoning from celery once... :wth:

[TeMpEsT]

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Aug 16 2004, 01:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Aug 16 2004, 01:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Avenger@Aug 15 2004, 08:24 AM
Nah, we need the proteins we find in meat to be healthy. As for the vegetables, you don&#39;t know if they were actually genetically modified or if they used pest control on them, so I say the meat is totally healthy.
you can get protein from other things than meat. and as for meat being "totally healthy", i dont know where you got that from.

80,000 birds a day processed. Out of those 80,000, only 15 birds are inspected. Out of those 15, they have to have 3 or more pen abscesses to be pulled off the line.

people who eat meat are at least 30 percent more likely to die of a heart attack, 40 percent more likely to get cancer, and at increased risk for many other diseases and illnesses, including stroke, obesity, appendicitis, osteoporosis, arthritis, diabetes, alzheimers disease, and food poisoning.

and on the vegetable thing, meat contains accumulations of pesticides and other chemicals up to 14 times more concentrated than those found in plant foods. [/b][/quote]
Umm...



...uhhh...



...MEAT TASTES BETTER.

Me: 1
You: 0

[Jila]

Originally posted by TeMpEsT+Aug 15 2004, 11:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TeMpEsT @ Aug 15 2004, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -PyRoMaNiaK@Aug 16 2004, 01:04 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Avenger@Aug 15 2004, 08:24 AM
Nah, we need the proteins we find in meat to be healthy. As for the vegetables, you don&#39;t know if they were actually genetically modified or if they used pest control on them, so I say the meat is totally healthy.
you can get protein from other things than meat. and as for meat being "totally healthy", i dont know where you got that from.

80,000 birds a day processed. Out of those 80,000, only 15 birds are inspected. Out of those 15, they have to have 3 or more pen abscesses to be pulled off the line.

people who eat meat are at least 30 percent more likely to die of a heart attack, 40 percent more likely to get cancer, and at increased risk for many other diseases and illnesses, including stroke, obesity, appendicitis, osteoporosis, arthritis, diabetes, alzheimers disease, and food poisoning.

and on the vegetable thing, meat contains accumulations of pesticides and other chemicals up to 14 times more concentrated than those found in plant foods.
Umm...



...uhhh...



...MEAT TASTES BETTER.

Me: 1
You: 0 [/b][/quote]
:lol:

well then ill be healthy and live longer

me: 2
you: 1

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Aug 16 2004, 06:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Aug 16 2004, 06:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -TeMpEsT@Aug 15 2004, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by -PyRoMaNiaK@Aug 16 2004, 01:04 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Avenger@Aug 15 2004, 08:24 AM
Nah, we need the proteins we find in meat to be healthy. As for the vegetables, you don&#39;t know if they were actually genetically modified or if they used pest control on them, so I say the meat is totally healthy.
you can get protein from other things than meat. and as for meat being "totally healthy", i dont know where you got that from.

80,000 birds a day processed. Out of those 80,000, only 15 birds are inspected. Out of those 15, they have to have 3 or more pen abscesses to be pulled off the line.

people who eat meat are at least 30 percent more likely to die of a heart attack, 40 percent more likely to get cancer, and at increased risk for many other diseases and illnesses, including stroke, obesity, appendicitis, osteoporosis, arthritis, diabetes, alzheimers disease, and food poisoning.

and on the vegetable thing, meat contains accumulations of pesticides and other chemicals up to 14 times more concentrated than those found in plant foods.
Umm...



...uhhh...



...MEAT TASTES BETTER.

Me: 1
You: 0
:lol:

well then ill be healthy and live longer

me: 2
you: 1 [/b][/quote]
and you&#39;ll save animals :lol:

jila: 2
tempest: 1
me: 5 :lol:

[Jila]

tempest: 1
katie: 5
me: 600

..because im just cool


whats your view on animal rights?
my friend: don&#39;t hurt the poor animals&#33;&#33;&#33; BUNNIES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SHAMPOO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


animals are people too

funny quotes are cool

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK@Aug 16 2004, 08:13 AM
tempest: 1
katie: 5
me: 600

..because im just cool


whats your view on animal rights?
my friend: don&#39;t hurt the poor animals&#33;&#33;&#33; BUNNIES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SHAMPOO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


animals are people too

funny quotes are cool
:lol:
excuse me&#33; youre like... Loo-SER&#33; haha sorry couldnt resist the preppiness :lol:
you guys... we&#39;re screwing the topic.

[b0B_th3_Bl0b]

I&#39;m not a vegatarian.
I love animals though, so if pizza, hotdogs, ect. were not considered meat, I&#39;d gladly be a vegatarian&#33;&#33;
But sorry, just not willing to give up mu favorite foods...

[ccitb]

I don&#39;t eat meat. but it&#39;s not that I wanted to "save animals" or something, I don&#39;t do it just because I don&#39;t like it.

But I do eat fish, but I would nevertheless call myself a vegetarian, since 3 years or something, but I just have my own way and my own definition about what a vegetarian is.

and I&#39;m of the opinion that a person who isn&#39;t eating meat for a week isn&#39;t a vegetarian, I call it: A person who isn&#39;t eating meat for a week.

[Radical Dreamer]

If the vegeterian&#39;s claim of not eating meat is "to save the animal kingdom", I&#39;d like to know whether this approach really HAS saved animals from the slaughterhouse. If not, their efforts are futile. But I can totally understand someone wanting to be vegetarian simply because they don&#39;t like the taste of meat.

Meat is good for building energy and stamina, but I&#39;ve heard that vegetarians should make up for the nutritions they lack by eating other foods like tofu or something. :lol:

[Jila]

well vegetarianism/veganism has kind of become a trend and every wannabe scenester is. so i guess it is kind of saving animals because the recent vegetarians/vegans havent been eating meat, and since they dont buy it anymore, theyre going to sell less, therefore, resulting in less meat produced.. or whatever. but yeah, there are quite a few vegetarians now.

[Whimsicality]

I think a lot of people in this thread, on both sides of the argument, get offended way to easily.

I am not a vegetarian, although I have pretty much lost a taste for meat. My Dad is an Akinser, so for the past several years meat, especially steak and chicken, was a huge part of my family&#39;s diet, probably the reason steak pretty much disgusts me now.

But to everyone making the argument that one person being a vegetarian isn&#39;t closing the slaughterhouses:
True, but not killing people doesn&#39;t stop the murders either, does it? It simply means that you aren&#39;t participating in something you feel is wrong.

And please don&#39;t grab my throat and tell me I&#39;m calling meat-eaters murderers. The murdur anology was simply the first thing that came to mind, replace it with "stealing" if it makes you feel better. And like I already said, I am not a vegetarian.

[Today After Tomorrow]

I think most vegatarians know that them not eating meat isn&#39;t going to save the entire animal kingdom. But when you truely think about an animal...a thing with a brain, a heart, feelings...it might seem hard to know that the animal was killed simply because some people were hungry. Truely think about that. In my opinion that&#39;s why most don&#39;t eat meat. But I don&#39;t really know

I&#39;m not a vegatarian though although I have thought about it. I think it is ok for an animal to be killed for eating purposes. But when I see a car swerve to hit a squirell or a cat or something that really bothers me. Killing something just because you think it would be funny...that&#39;s lame

[Glenn]

i used to be a vegetarian. Now I realize that the main reasons to raise animals is to kill them for meat and nothing is going to change that.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Today After Tomorrow@Sep 25 2004, 08:53 PM
But when I see a car swerve to hit a squirell or a cat or something that really bothers me. Killing something just because you think it would be funny...that&#39;s lame
Gotta remember something.....


Hitting the animals for fun is just plain wrong. I&#39;d never do that for fun. But, I know a few people that ended up crashing their cars into a tree or something because they tried to swerve around a squirrel or something. So if there&#39;s a small animal in my path and I can either kill the animal, go into oncoming traffic, hit a tree or go offroading in my little 2 door coupe not meant for offroading, then the animal better start praying so it doesn&#39;t go to animal hell when it dies in a few seconds.

[Glenn]

Originally posted by Todd@Sep 26 2004, 02:31 AM
then the animal better start praying so it doesn&#39;t go to animal hell when it dies in a few seconds.
:lol:

In animal heaven they have unlimited streets with cars that will run over the squirrels but not kill them because they are invisible.

[iamrighthereandnow]

i am a vegan and have been veggie for years, i do it as a)you eat meat, you eat adrenalin and all toxins that are released on time of death, adrenalin does #### to your body if its unneeded (your not in life threat all the time). meat takes 7 years to rott away in your intestines, a hell of energy to break it down, while eating veggie gives you that energy to live your life then digest your food instead, thats extra brain power, extra body power.etc and so on and so forth.my body is my best friend, it is there since day i was born and will be till day i die. also working with old people gives me a question, if i look after myself and be healthy, my dignity, my ability to live my life independently and fully will be preserved till the most maximum moment. now i got a daughter, i give her fish, but i make sure its organic, its from place where its killed in most caring way. we cannot avoid causing demage to something, but awareness about it is something that i think is essential. that you can do it in the way that you cause the least harm possible, that you consider all your options, not just take the easiest.i could say to hell no with it, but hey, do i want to live my life in minimal way i can, no i want to live to my max, that is my aim, and even if i slip i pull myself up again and give it a best i can. i could ramble on more, but wont, i might bore you to no end.

[Neil]

Unhealthy.

[Jila]

Originally posted by Neil@Sep 28 2004, 07:14 AM
Unhealthy.
are you saying vegetarianism is unhealthy? if you are i hope youre kidding.

[Maëlle]

Originally posted by iamrighthereandnow@Sep 28 2004, 10:04 AM
meat takes 7 years to rott away in your intestines
Somehow, I have doubts believing this. :wth:

[Anthony.]

It is unhealthy. Man was made to eat meat AND vegetarian stuff.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Maëlle+Sep 28 2004, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maëlle @ Sep 28 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--iamrighthereandnow@Sep 28 2004, 10:04 AM
meat takes 7 years to rott away in your intestines
Somehow, I have doubts believing this. :wth: [/b][/quote]
You&#39;re right. That&#39;s an asinine thought.

On a similar subject: Why won&#39;t this thread die?&#33;

[iamrighthereandnow]

maybe the thread is the living dead and thats why it cannot die.
i didnt believe it at first either (meat rotts in your intestines for 7 years) till i met my friend who is a doctor, if you hear an eye witness its hard to give up the evidence as unreal.
its a personal choice anyway. my belief is that eating meat is not healthy, but that is my belief based on investigating the subject thoroughly and i dont force it on anybody, just really sharing some of my views, no need to give up your meat, eat it till you want to. no need to be for veggies or against them, i am not for or against meat eaters, as i said its my personal choice of what i consider healthy for me.

[forgotten girl]

i&#39;m not vegetarian....though i would like to be one of them... :( but it&#39;s too hard for me, i guess.. :innocent:

[Holiday]

:o the horror the horror&#33;&#33; :o

[Jila]

Originally posted by Avenger@Sep 28 2004, 05:52 PM
It is unhealthy. Man was made to eat meat AND vegetarian stuff.
who says? god?

seriously, if you knew anything about how unhealthy meat is you wouldnt have said that. you know all the diseases the animals could have had and how they barely check them.

and by the way, the first humans didnt eat meat, they ate seeds. the only sharp teeth we have are our cainines which is used to tear through leaves. if you look at dogs and other carnivores the majority of their teeth (if not all) are pointy so they can eat flesh, whereas humans have to cook it first. human teeth are more like herbivores&#39;.

[Anthony.]

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Sep 30 2004, 09:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Sep 30 2004, 09:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Avenger@Sep 28 2004, 05:52 PM
It is unhealthy. Man was made to eat meat AND vegetarian stuff.
who says? god?

seriously, if you knew anything about how unhealthy meat is you wouldnt have said that. you know all the diseases the animals could have had and how they barely check them.

and by the way, the first humans didnt eat meat, they ate seeds. the only sharp teeth we have are our cainines which is used to tear through leaves. if you look at dogs and other carnivores the majority of their teeth (if not all) are pointy so they can eat flesh, whereas humans have to cook it first. human teeth are more like herbivores&#39;. [/b][/quote]
Specialists.

Why it won&#39;t die? Controversial subject.

[iamrighthereandnow]

avenger....you say its controversy, so its unconfortable, so are you gonna avoid everything unconfortable in your life. the more you try to avoid something the more it comes bashing at your door for you to deal with it. maybe that is why it wont die.

pyromaniak, i agree, also our intestines are built more like herbivores, carnivores intestines are straight to make the meat pass out as fast as possible to prevent the bacteria that sets in to decompose the meat as soon as dead is dead, if you eat meat, those bacterias live inside you for some time as our intestines are 3 metres long and absolutely not straight, and the meat that doesnt come out rotts away. if you eat it, there are detox things and plants that will make sure it can get out and that the toxins left behind would be flushed out, if you eat meat, you should take care you do these things once in a while.

[Jila]

Originally posted by iamrighthereandnow@Oct 1 2004, 01:56 AM
avenger....you say its controversy, so its unconfortable, so are you gonna avoid everything unconfortable in your life. the more you try to avoid something the more it comes bashing at your door for you to deal with it. maybe that is why it wont die.

pyromaniak, i agree, also our intestines are built more like herbivores, carnivores intestines are straight to make the meat pass out as fast as possible to prevent the bacteria that sets in to decompose the meat as soon as dead is dead, if you eat meat, those bacterias live inside you for some time as our intestines are 3 metres long and absolutely not straight, and the meat that doesnt come out rotts away. if you eat it, there are detox things and plants that will make sure it can get out and that the toxins left behind would be flushed out, if you eat meat, you should take care you do these things once in a while.
yeah, theres also a lot more evidence that were more like herbivores like how we dont have claws, perspire through our toungues, have salivary glands to break down starch, we have 20x weaker hydrocholoric acid than the average carnivore. also, our DNA is much like chimpanzees and the only time they eat meat is if they REALLY have to.

[Mark]

Originally posted by iamrighthereandnow@Oct 1 2004, 06:26 AM
avenger....you say its controversy, so its unconfortable, so are you gonna avoid everything unconfortable in your life. the more you try to avoid something the more it comes bashing at your door for you to deal with it. maybe that is why it wont die.
don&#39;t put words in his mouth. he didn&#39;t say that.

one of the main points of cooking meat is to get rid of any living bacteria in it, so any diseases that may be present will most likely be killed by the high temperatures. unless it was cooked wrong.

[Anthony.]

Originally posted by iamrighthereandnow@Oct 1 2004, 04:56 AM
avenger....you say its controversy, so its unconfortable, so are you gonna avoid everything unconfortable in your life. the more you try to avoid something the more it comes bashing at your door for you to deal with it. maybe that is why it wont die. .
So that&#39;s the reason I am avoiding this topic?&#33;

Oh, must be the Matrix trying to make you think I don&#39;t post in this topic :lol: .

[Maëlle]

Omnivores people&#33; Humans are OMNIVOREs and built for it&#33; Yes our intestines and teeth may look like hebivores ones but if we were &#39;&#39;meant&#39;&#39; to only eat vegetables, we wouldn&#39;t have canines or any other sign proper to carnivor being.

[Jila]

Originally posted by Maëlle@Oct 2 2004, 03:34 PM
Omnivores people&#33; Humans are OMNIVOREs and built for it&#33; Yes our intestines and teeth may look like hebivores ones but if we were &#39;&#39;meant&#39;&#39; to only eat vegetables, we wouldn&#39;t have canines or any other sign proper to carnivor being.
just because we have canines doesnt automatically cancel out the fact that everything else about us resemble herbivores.

by the way, gorillas have very large canines and have a vegetarian diet ;)

[iamrighthereandnow]

omnivores also eat insect, do we eat insect?????????? anybody, i never have done......

[iamrighthereandnow]

Originally posted by Avenger+Oct 1 2004, 01:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Avenger @ Oct 1 2004, 01:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -PyRoMaNiaK@Sep 30 2004, 09:08 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Avenger@Sep 28 2004, 05:52 PM
It is unhealthy. Man was made to eat meat AND vegetarian stuff.
who says? god?

seriously, if you knew anything about how unhealthy meat is you wouldnt have said that. you know all the diseases the animals could have had and how they barely check them.

and by the way, the first humans didnt eat meat, they ate seeds. the only sharp teeth we have are our cainines which is used to tear through leaves. if you look at dogs and other carnivores the majority of their teeth (if not all) are pointy so they can eat flesh, whereas humans have to cook it first. human teeth are more like herbivores&#39;.
Specialists.

Why it won&#39;t die? Controversial subject. [/b][/quote]
[QUOTE]
why wont it die? controversial subject...... wishing something dead with adding its controversy would lead me into thinking somebody would wish to avoid something. i also wish i would not have to argue with anybody, because i dont like it and what i dont like i naturaly would like to be able to avoid, i dont like olives, i avoid them or not?

[iamrighthereandnow]

and if i were wrong i would of course apologise to avenger, but to me what is the point of endlessly just going why wont it die? sounds like complaining, why not do something about it? . why not just clearly communicate your emotions? ..... ie this subject brings lots of stuff in me and sometimes i wish it would stop because its hard for me to deal with some of it. any difference here? your owning up your feelings here not throwing them on the subject. why should controversial stuff die? for what if not personal reasons, otherwise its better for everybody to air it out. personally it drains me out if people just complain instead of either accepting the fact that something is so or do something about it, that is why i reacted. why does my neigbour keep drilling walls, doesnt solve anything at all. either i go down and ask her not to do it late at night or i block the sound out for myself.

[Mark]

Originally posted by iamrighthereandnow@Oct 5 2004, 02:01 PM
and if i were wrong i would of course apologise to avenger, but to me what is the point of endlessly just going why wont it die? sounds like complaining, why not do something about it? . why not just clearly communicate your emotions? ..... ie this subject brings lots of stuff in me and sometimes i wish it would stop because its hard for me to deal with some of it. any difference here? your owning up your feelings here not throwing them on the subject. why should controversial stuff die? for what if not personal reasons, otherwise its better for everybody to air it out. personally it drains me out if people just complain instead of either accepting the fact that something is so or do something about it, that is why i reacted. why does my neigbour keep drilling walls, doesnt solve anything at all. either i go down and ask her not to do it late at night or i block the sound out for myself.
Their opinions have been explained thoroguhyl through the first ten or so pages of this page, dating all the way back to July. And it&#39;ll die now.

Don&#39;t triple-post, either. Read the rules. And rambling doesn&#39;t get you anywhere. ;)