Abortion...Right or Wrong? [Archive]

LinkinJunior

07-19-2004, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by superxero88+Jul 18 2004, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (superxero88 @ Jul 18 2004, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--LinkinJunior@Jul 18 2004, 05:52 PM
Sorry, http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/index....525&hl=abortion (http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=8525&hl=abortion)
Been dead for over two months. And i'm sure someone would jump on him for searching and necroposting.

I say abortion is ok for things like rape and all that, but to use it as a way to dodge responsibility is foolish. It's not that hard to use a condom. But if she did something to the condom (pop it to entrap the guy), abortion is ok. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, but all opinons have already been documented in that thread. He was curious how we felt, so going to that thread would be a great place to learn how everyone felt about it. ;)

arT saveS

07-19-2004, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by SaxopianoGRD@Jul 18 2004, 08:45 PM
It depends on the situation.

If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, then abortion is a good choice if a woman doesn't want to have the baby.

If an irresponsible woman uses abortion like birth control, then that is completely wrong.
:)

Ander

07-19-2004, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by LinkinJunior+Jul 18 2004, 05:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LinkinJunior @ Jul 18 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 18 2004, 06:56 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--LinkinJunior@Jul 18 2004, 05:52 PM
Sorry, http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/index....525&hl=abortion (http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=8525&hl=abortion)
Been dead for over two months. And i'm sure someone would jump on him for searching and necroposting.

I say abortion is ok for things like rape and all that, but to use it as a way to dodge responsibility is foolish. It's not that hard to use a condom. But if she did something to the condom (pop it to entrap the guy), abortion is ok.
Yeah, but all opinons have already been documented in that thread. He was curious how we felt, so going to that thread would be a great place to learn how everyone felt about it. ;) [/b][/quote]
Yea, but who likes reading? Active, current discussion is much more enjoyable (except on topics such as politics, religion, and music :P).

LinkinJunior

07-19-2004, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by superxero88+Jul 18 2004, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (superxero88 @ Jul 18 2004, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -LinkinJunior@Jul 18 2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 18 2004, 06:56 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--LinkinJunior@Jul 18 2004, 05:52 PM
Sorry, http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/index....525&hl=abortion (http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=8525&hl=abortion)
Been dead for over two months. And i'm sure someone would jump on him for searching and necroposting.

I say abortion is ok for things like rape and all that, but to use it as a way to dodge responsibility is foolish. It's not that hard to use a condom. But if she did something to the condom (pop it to entrap the guy), abortion is ok.
Yeah, but all opinons have already been documented in that thread. He was curious how we felt, so going to that thread would be a great place to learn how everyone felt about it. ;)
Yea, but who likes reading? Active, current discussion is much more enjoyable (except on topics such as politics, religion, and music :P). [/b][/quote]
*falls on the floor*

RememberingNever

07-19-2004, 02:24 AM

I think it's wrong.
Now if it's because of rape.. well then I suppose it could be ok.
But I don't know...hmm.. I still think it's wrong to kill.
Imagine you where that fetus... you wouldn't be here right now.. right? That would suck! You're only given one life.. it's unfair to die before you where even given a chance to live.
Focus on the life that will be taken instead of the women who is pregnant.

I think adoption is a better choice.

Todd

07-19-2004, 02:26 AM

I support abortion in any case.

RememberingNever

07-19-2004, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 18 2004, 10:26 PM
I support abortion in any case.
Do you have a reason?

Ander

07-19-2004, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 18 2004, 06:26 PM
I support abortion in any case.
Well this is true. One less mouth sucking of the tit that is welfare.

Todd

07-19-2004, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by RememberingNever+Jul 18 2004, 09:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RememberingNever @ Jul 18 2004, 09:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Todd@Jul 18 2004, 10:26 PM
I support abortion in any case.
Do you have a reason? [/b][/quote]
I support it in cases of rape, thats self explanitory, but I support it in any other case.

It's her body, the government shouldn't be able to tell the woman what she can and cannot do with her own body. It's her choice, even if she is irresponsible and doesnt use birth control, I'd rather have the unwanted child aborted than end up growing up in an orphanage knowing that he was unwanted and a mistake.

RememberingNever

07-19-2004, 02:34 AM

I support it in cases of rape, thats self explanitory, but I support it in any other case.

It's her body, the government shouldn't be able to tell the woman what she can and cannot do with her own body. It's her choice, even if she is irresponsible and doesnt use birth control, I'd rather have the unwanted child aborted than end up growing up in an orphanage knowing that he was unwanted and a mistake.
You do have a good point and it has made me more open to abortion.

But I'll rather live in an orphanage than to not exsist at all.

People are always looking far babies to adopt.

Atomic125

07-19-2004, 02:39 AM

I say, if you're able to kill it, then it's alive. So abortion's murder. Even under the circumstances of rape, murder is murder. Listen to Dave, adoption works, lol.

RememberingNever

07-19-2004, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 10:39 PM
I say, if you're able to kill it, then it's alive. So abortion's murder. Even under the circumstances of rape, murder is murder. Listen to Dave, adoption works, lol.
Who's Dave? :mellow:

Anyway, I very much agree with you.

Will

07-19-2004, 02:45 AM

I strattle the line of pro-choice and pro-life. If the girl gets raped, she should have the right to abort the child. But if it's just a careless mistake, she should have to take the responsibility of raising the child.

Todd

07-19-2004, 02:46 AM

Originally posted by Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 09:39 PM
I say, if you're able to kill it, then it's alive. So abortion's murder. Even under the circumstances of rape, murder is murder. Listen to Dave, adoption works, lol.
So if a woman is violentley raped, she should be stuck with the child? Thats BS. Pregnancy isnt an easy thing, common sense will tell you that. and IMO, theres no reason a woman should have to put up with the pain and hassle of pregnancy and labor and foot the hospital bills when she didnt even want to have sex in the first place.

RememberingNever

07-19-2004, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 18 2004, 10:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 18 2004, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 09:39 PM
I say, if you're able to kill it, then it's alive.* So abortion's murder.* Even under the circumstances of rape, murder is murder.* Listen to Dave, adoption works, lol.
So if a woman is violentley raped, she should be stuck with the child? Thats BS. Pregnancy isnt an easy thing, common sense will tell you that. and IMO, theres no reason a woman should have to put up with the pain and hassle of pregnancy and labor and foot the hospital bills when she didnt even want to have sex in the first place. [/b][/quote]
I agree with you but.. now in days rapes probably not the biggest reason women turn to abortion.

Young girls are becoming pregnant everyday because of careless un-protected sex. They choose abortion because they don't want anyone to find out they are pregnant (like their parents or boyfriend). Or maybe they think they wont be able to support the child... that's why their is a such thing as ADOPTION.

Atomic125

07-19-2004, 03:06 AM

Dave, is the founder of Wendy's, and was adopted.l Where I live, there's a bunch of billboards that say Adoption Works, and have a picture of Dave and stuff. As for what Todd said, I never said she should be stuck with the child, I said put it up for adoption. Of course, I don't have much experience in the pain of carrying a child (you could say none, but I have heard stories) but, I mean, would you rather slay a kid or take some pain and give it to someone else that it may see this world?

RememberingNever

07-19-2004, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 11:06 PM
Dave, is the founder of Wendy's, and was adopted.l Where I live, there's a bunch of billboards that say Adoption Works, and have a picture of Dave and stuff. As for what Todd said, I never said she should be stuck with the child, I said put it up for adoption. Of course, I don't have much experience in the pain of carrying a child (you could say none, but I have heard stories) but, I mean, would you rather slay a kid or take some pain and give it to someone else that it may see this world?
Oh that's who you mean. I never knew he was adopted.
See people.. if the biological mother of Dave chose to abort him instead of give him up for adoption there would be no Wendy's. (NO! :'( )

Atomic125

07-19-2004, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by RememberingNever+Jul 19 2004, 03:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RememberingNever @ Jul 19 2004, 03:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 11:06 PM
Dave, is the founder of Wendy's, and was adopted.l Where I live, there's a bunch of billboards that say Adoption Works, and have a picture of Dave and stuff. As for what Todd said, I never said she should be stuck with the child, I said put it up for adoption. Of course, I don't have much experience in the pain of carrying a child (you could say none, but I have heard stories) but, I mean, would you rather slay a kid or take some pain and give it to someone else that it may see this world?
Oh that's who you mean. I never knew he was adopted.
See people.. if the biological mother of Dave chose to abort him instead of give him up for adoption there would be no Wendy's. (NO! :'( ) [/b][/quote]
Lol, that's one way to look at it.

Todd

07-19-2004, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by RememberingNever@Jul 18 2004, 10:10 PM
there would be no Wendy's. (NO! :'( )
i wouldnt miss it :lol:

Link04

07-19-2004, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Will@Jul 19 2004, 02:45 AM
I strattle the line of pro-choice and pro-life. If the girl gets raped, she should have the right to abort the child. But if it's just a careless mistake, she should have to take the responsibility of raising the child.
Hey, look at that, we're in agreement ^_^ . But even then, the majority of the people having abortions are just irresponsible. The maybe 2% of women having abortions that have been raped should deserve at least the option. It's murder either way to me, but it's more justified by a rape victim.

Jae

07-19-2004, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 18 2004, 08:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 18 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 09:39 PM
I say, if you're able to kill it, then it's alive.* So abortion's murder.* Even under the circumstances of rape, murder is murder.* Listen to Dave, adoption works, lol.
So if a woman is violentley raped, she should be stuck with the child? Thats BS. Pregnancy isnt an easy thing, common sense will tell you that. and IMO, theres no reason a woman should have to put up with the pain and hassle of pregnancy and labor and foot the hospital bills when she didnt even want to have sex in the first place. [/b][/quote]
I totally agree with Todd.

I dont think the government should decide whether a woman should have a child, even if the sex was consentual. Obviously the woman dosent feel she is ready to have a child. We dont need any more children with "unprepared" parents or children put up for adoption.

EDIT: Abortion is not killing anything, you're just aborting the process of developing a human. You cannot kill something that has not been born.

Mark

07-19-2004, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Jae+Jul 19 2004, 02:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jae @ Jul 19 2004, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 18 2004, 08:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 09:39 PM
I say, if you're able to kill it, then it's alive.* So abortion's murder.* Even under the circumstances of rape, murder is murder.* Listen to Dave, adoption works, lol.
So if a woman is violentley raped, she should be stuck with the child? Thats BS. Pregnancy isnt an easy thing, common sense will tell you that. and IMO, theres no reason a woman should have to put up with the pain and hassle of pregnancy and labor and foot the hospital bills when she didnt even want to have sex in the first place.
I totally agree with Todd.

I dont think the government should decide whether a woman should have a child, even if the sex was consentual. Obviously the woman dosent feel she is ready to have a child. We dont need any more children with "unprepared" parents or children put up for adoption.

EDIT: Abortion is not killing anything, you're just aborting the process of developing a human. You cannot kill something that has not been born. [/b][/quote]
Oh great, now you're going to start the "fetus: alive or not" feud.

Chris(tmas)

07-19-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Will@Jul 19 2004, 04:45 AM
I strattle the line of pro-choice and pro-life. If the girl gets raped, she should have the right to abort the child. But if it's just a careless mistake, she should have to take the responsibility of raising the child.
But.. WHAT IF its you that made the baby. You should take the responsibility too, to raise the child. And that destroys almost your school. Or you can just leave her :lol:

Scarlet

07-19-2004, 08:04 PM

I think abortion is wrong. But I guess it is the womans choice - it's her body. But she should take the responsibility of having the child. If she knew there was a posibilty of getting pregnant then she should have never had unprotected sex in the first place.

If the women chooses abortion because of rape, well then that's another story.

There are two sides to this and most of the time it's not because of rape.

JoJaDaWg

07-19-2004, 08:32 PM

I disagree, even if a woman is raped, i still thing that they should go through with the pregnancy, there are so many adoption agencies out there.

Todd

07-19-2004, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by JoJaDaWg@Jul 19 2004, 03:32 PM
I disagree, even if a woman is raped, i still thing that they should go through with the pregnancy, there are so many adoption agencies out there.
I'm a male. I've never had a baby and I never will have a baby for obvious reasons so I can't talk from experience. However, its obvious that a full 9 month pregnancy is no walk in the park. Even before labor, its painful and the actual labor is even worse. The woman already suffered enough pain when she got raped and shouldn't have to suffer any more by having the baby.

And adoption isn't the best thing either. If abortion is made completely illegal, so many kids will be available for adoption that no one will want them, so they'll be living in orphanages with a ton of other kids....what kind of life is that for the child?

emmmers

07-19-2004, 09:50 PM

I support abortions for all. There's often very serious side effects of abortion that affect women for the rest of their life. Some even serious enough to make her never be able to give birth again. So if the woman wants to risk that, it should be her choice.

Also, if someone is even considering abortion, that means they don't want responsibility for the child. I'd rather have unborn children killed than thousands of children living screwed up lives where they get no real love and therefore will go around looking for anything to fill that hole (prostitution, rape, drugs, etc.)

Radical Dreamer

07-19-2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by JoJaDaWg@Jul 19 2004, 01:37 AM
I am just wondering what everyone thinks about abortion. Do you think it is wrong to kill a baby or is it okay to kill a fetus?

I personally think that it is wrong to kill. I believe that a fetus is a human being, so if you were to kill it you would be taking a life. There are so many adoption agencys out in the world that would take the baby and find it a good home if it really needed one, in the case that the mother couldn't support the baby.

Well, give me your feedback on whether you think abortion is right or wrong. Thank you
A fetus is not the same as an embryo, which is not the same as a zygote. I don't believe aborting a fetus is the same thing as aborting an embryo or zygote. Some people argue that life begins at conception, but when a "child" is conceived, it's nothing more than a fertilized egg. If a woman wants to abort that, I don't see the problem. Once the cells start developing organs and turn into a fetus with visible body parts, then that's a different story.

If all human beings can come to the agreement that there is nothing morally wrong with terminating a pregnancy at an early stage, then women wouldn't have to be scared and delay the abortion until it's too late when the cells are no longer just cells, but a fully developed fetus with arms and legs. A question for everybody: Which is better - aborting a group of cells 2 days after conception or aborting a fetus that's 20 weeks old?

THIS IS MY PROPOSED "LAW" THAT WILL MAKE ALL WOMEN, MEN (AND FETUSES) HAPPIER PEOPLE: ALL women, whether they've been raped or is just suffering an unwanted pregnancy, are allowed to have an abortion, but ONLY if they have it done in the month after conception.

After that, it's every potentially pregnant woman's responsibility to check whether they really are pregnant or not. All women who have had unprotected sex (or even protected sex) can buy a kit from the chemist to check, and if they ARE pregnant and they don't want to keep the baby, they can get an abortion right away. In doing that, they will only be "killing" a group of cells and no serious harm is done. After all, if it's okay to use cells in stem cell research, why isn't it okay to have an abortion when the "baby" is just cells?

(Notice how I haven't used any religious argument to back me up. IMO, religion clouds people's judgement and sometimes hinders reason and logic. What I'm saying is completely my opinion.)

I disagree, even if a woman is raped, i still thing that they should go through with the pregnancy, there are so many adoption agencies out there.

Have you any idea how painful it is to give birth to a child? The labor, the contractions, the water breaking...it's like having stomach cramps whilst menstruating only they're 100 TIMES WORSE!! I've had those cramps, thank God I don't need medication for them and I'll tell you they're nothing pleasant.

Do you realize how much nutrition is taken from the mother whilst the baby is in the womb? Can you imagine how sh*tty life would be if you have to carry around a baby in your stomach, throw up every now and then (vomiting is nothing uncommon to pregnant woman) and having unnecessary arrangements such as prenatal scans? Everytime a woman gives birth, her body is stretched beyond repair. Women also tend to put on weight a lot faster after a pregnancy.

Besides, it's bad for the child. The mother will probably be so pissed she got raped that she'll start binge drinking, or maybe she's a smoker already or whatever, and these are very damaging to the baby. I take it that you're male, because you don't sound like you have the slightest understanding of what being pregnant even begins to feel like. And if you're a girl, you sound like a female version of John Ashcroft.

Why should the woman have to suffer when it's not her fault? You might say, "well it's not the baby's fault he's conceived" blah blah, etc. and I say that's bullsh*t. If the abortion is carried out in a few days, it won't be a baby you're killing. Just a zygote. Anyway, refer to my "cells" argument above, and please think about the consequences of a pregnancy before you speak.

Sorry if that sounded extreme or whatever but I'm a girl and if I ever get raped (God forbid), YOU CAN DAMN WELL BET I'M GONNA GET A F*CKING ABORTION. Hell, I don't even want to father the child of the man I love, let alone some heartless illegitimate offspring of unmarried parents who wants to corner girls in alleways. I don't ever want children and I'd rather swallow a thousand knives before I bear the child of a rapist.

Madi

07-19-2004, 10:12 PM

I strongly believe that abortion is completely wrong, it's reckless murder and you should take responsibilty for it. And not many abortions are related to rape.

But then again there are a small percentage that are a result of rape and I don't like people trying to force their morals, religion or ethics upon others. Even if I don't believe in it, I can't justify the government for taking away peoples rights. I think if you know a women who's thinking about abortion you should try to convince them not too but when it comes down to it, it's their choice and you should accept and respect that.

Going through with an abortion would be difficult and put a huge emotional toll on the person so in a way they have already suffered and should be left alone and not lectured.

Sorry, if that made no sense...

TheVoodoo

07-19-2004, 10:15 PM

All I'm gonna say is my mom was raped and she didn't have an abortion. And I have a sister because of that. She's 12 now and I can't Imagine my life without her.

Radical Dreamer

07-19-2004, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Madi@Jul 19 2004, 10:12 PM
I strongly believe that abortion is completely wrong, it's reckless murder and you should take responsibilty for it. And not many abortions are related to rape.

But then again there are a small percentage that are a result of rape and I don't like people trying to force their morals, religion or ethics upon others. Even if I don't believe in it, I can't justify the government for taking away peoples rights. I think if you know a women who's thinking about abortion you should try to convince them not too but when it comes down to it, it's their choice and you should accept and respect that.

Going through with an abortion would be difficult and put a huge emotional toll on the person so in a way they have already suffered and should be left alone and not lectured.

Sorry, if that made no sense...
You know, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even George W Bush. What I hate is a group of people (the government) forcing their (religiously zealous) beliefs on others. That's one of the many reasons why I dislike Bush. What do the words "separation of church and skate" mean to ANYBODY?! :angry:

All I'm gonna say is my mom was raped and she didn't have an abortion. And I have a sister because of that. She's 12 now and I can't Imagine my life without her.

Each to their own. If a rape victim wants to keep her child, fine. But if she wants an abortion, NO ONE has the right to tell her she shouldn't.

Scarlet

07-19-2004, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer@Jul 19 2004, 06:16 PM
You know, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.* Even George W Bush.* What I hate is a group of people (the government) forcing their (religiously zealous) beliefs on others.* That's one of the many reasons why I dislike Bush.* What do the words "separation of church and skate" mean to ANYBODY?! :angry:
On my mind 'religiously zealous beliefs' has nothing to do with it. Point blank - it's the womens fought for having unprotected sex and she should live up to her responsibilities. It's wrong to end a life just because you made a mistake. (I'm not talking about women that were raped.)

All I'm gonna say is my mom was raped and she didn't have an abortion. And I have a sister because of that. She's 12 now and I can't Imagine my life without her. Each to their own. If a rape victim wants to keep her child, fine. But if she wants an abortion, NO ONE has the right to tell her she shouldn't.
You're right, no one has the right to tell anyone what to do. But I think the point in him saying that was to make you think of all the the wonderful people who could have lived in this world if they wern't aborted. If his mom had chose abortion he wouldn't have sister.

emmmers

07-19-2004, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by Madi@Jul 19 2004, 02:12 PM
I strongly believe that abortion is completely wrong, it's reckless murder and you should take responsibilty for it. And not many abortions are related to rape.

But then again there are a small percentage that are a result of rape and I don't like people trying to force their morals, religion or ethics upon others. Even if I don't believe in it, I can't justify the government for taking away peoples rights. I think if you know a women who's thinking about abortion you should try to convince them not too but when it comes down to it, it's their choice and you should accept and respect that.

Going through with an abortion would be difficult and put a huge emotional toll on the person so in a way they have already suffered and should be left alone and not lectured.

Sorry, if that made no sense...
But you need to realize the background of people who consider abortions. A child of a parent who has even considered abortion will often live a f*cked up life. Sorry if I'm making a huge generalization. But all I'm saying is that if that's the case, it's probably better off for society in the long run to allow abortions, even if its immoral.

Ryan

07-19-2004, 11:54 PM

My personal opinion is that abortions are okay, as long as they are not being used as a form of birth control.

Scarlet

07-20-2004, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks@Jul 19 2004, 07:14 PM
But you need to realize the background of people who consider abortions. A child of a parent who has even considered abortion will often live a f*cked up life. Sorry if I'm making a huge generalization. But all I'm saying is that if that's the case, it's probably better off for society in the long run to allow abortions, even if its immoral.
I suppose you're right if you look at it that way. But, I don't know what's worse: living a f*cked up life or not living at all.

Mark

07-20-2004, 01:52 AM

How the hell can people expect women who have been raped and tortured by a vicious criminal to carry the son of a bitch's offspring?

Alacrity

07-20-2004, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 19 2004, 09:52 PM
How the hell can people expect women who have been raped and tortured by a vicious criminal to carry the son of a bitch's offspring?
Exactly what I'm thinking. I support abortions in about 4 cases. If the women pregnant was raped, if she is under the age of 16, if going through childbirth puts her and the baby's life at risk (in the case that the women could not bear children or if the procedure wasn't going right) or if the baby would have a severe disability after birth (like Downs Syndrome, some people can't afford to take care of that, and it isn't their fault). Other than that, unless the person can give me a very good reason that constitutes killing a living thing, they are going to have to live with the consequences of having a child. It takes two, someone could've said no.

Someone brought up a good point to me...comparing abortion to cutting off someone's life support. Think about it. They're in about the same mental state as a fetus if they need life support. If running around a hospital cutting life support is considered a crime, why isn't abortion?

Todd

07-20-2004, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by Alacrity@Jul 19 2004, 09:28 PM
Someone brought up a good point to me...comparing abortion to cutting off someone's life support. Think about it. They're in about the same mental state as a fetus if they need life support. If running around a hospital cutting life support is considered a crime, why isn't abortion?
With consent from the family, the hospital can legally shut off life support.

hmartin84

07-20-2004, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by JoJaDaWg@Jul 18 2004, 07:37 PM
I am just wondering what everyone thinks about abortion. Do you think it is wrong to kill a baby or is it okay to kill a fetus?

I personally think that it is wrong to kill. I believe that a fetus is a human being, so if you were to kill it you would be taking a life. There are so many adoption agencys out in the world that would take the baby and find it a good home if it really needed one, in the case that the mother couldn't support the baby.

Well, give me your feedback on whether you think abortion is right or wrong. Thank you
I think that there are different ways to look at it and those different ways depend on the situations.

If an abortion is a health choice then I believe it's okay.

If you feel you're just not ready to have a baby, I think then abortion is the worst thing you could do. Not giving this being a chance at live just because you screwed up and are not ready yet? If you're not ready then put the baby up for adoption. Then the baby has a chance at having a life.

Rape is the one I'm torn between. If you don't want the baby to be born because it will remind you of your rape then you could put the baby up for adoption. If you dont want the rape to leave scars on your child as in kids pointing and laughing at the child because his daddy's a rapist then suggest that the parents keep it a secret, as if the parents wouldnt, anyways. There's many different things you can choose, abortion if a choice, but it's not the best.

ChooseYourPoison

07-20-2004, 08:14 AM

Well here's my POV.

I disagree with it in many ways. For starters, you should NOT kill your own flesh and blood, or anything without reason for that matter. I think that if you do not know the consequences of having sex, then you shouldn't have had it in the first place. Unless you have a good logical reason not to have that baby, then you should just have it. Another sollution is just having it and just putting it up for adoption if you aren't ready to have a baby. Babies shouldn't have to suffer for the parents' mistakes.

Will

07-20-2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 03:14 AM
I think that if you do not know the consequences of having sex, then you shouldn't have had it in the first place.
What if the girl is raped, though?

I understand the whole principle of adoption, but the girl will forever be reminded of that child that she gave up due to the fact that she was raped, and that will just add even more emotional scars on top of the already-existing emotional scars from her rape. It's a double-edged sword.

Mark

07-20-2004, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by hmartin84@Jul 20 2004, 04:09 AM
Rape is the one I'm torn between. If you don't want the baby to be born because it will remind you of your rape then you could put the baby up for adoption. If you dont want the rape to leave scars on your child as in kids pointing and laughing at the child because his daddy's a rapist then suggest that the parents keep it a secret, as if the parents wouldnt, anyways. There's many different things you can choose, abortion if a choice, but it's not the best.
So a woman gets tortured by a criminal, then she has to go through torture again to give birth to the bastards baby? You shouldn't say that unless you notice and understand the extreme amount of pain women go through to give birth. Understand that and respect that, because you will never feel that pain.

Scarlet

07-20-2004, 06:42 PM

I think a woman has the right to choose abortion if she was raped. Mark, I read your thoughts on this and now I agree with you on that one point.

Radical Dreamer

07-20-2004, 06:50 PM

I'd like to raise a point that some people seem to ignore. Would anti-abortionists still be opposed to abortion if the woman had it done, say, 72 hours after conception? Like I said, aborting a fetus is not the same thing as aborting a zygote. If it's okay to use embryos for stem-cell research, why isn't it okay to have an abortion at an early stage? That is, unless you're against stem cell research as well.

Speaking of which, the Reagon administration has always opposed stem cell research until Ronald Reagan came down with Alzheimer's. Nancy Regan subsequently changed her opinion and began to support stem cell research, which is carried out in hope of finding cures for diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson. She also came out and admitted for the first time that she did not think an embryo is a human being. Sounds irrelevant but trust me, it's food for thought.

Debus

07-20-2004, 06:59 PM

I think that abortion is wrong in the sense that it is killing a human being but it can be a good thing. I don't mean it can be good as in 'Go have an abortion! It's good for you!' but some people who aren't ready for kids and who foster their kids off will probably find their kid looking for them or making the kid suffer emotional trauma from not knowing who their real family is. Of course the foster parent could decide not to tell te child they have been adopted but they usualy do. I'm probably going slightly off the topic but i seriously do think that alot of emotional trauma can be involved in not having an abortion.

Also if the mother is just not ready then the child will not be treated well and will not be looked after as well as they would be with a ready mother. They may not have the love and attention that they need.

I don't think that abortions are a good idea atal but as i said if the mother is really not ready to handle it she should have it aborted early. As i also said i don't think that fostering is a good idea either so it's best, in my opinion, to have it aborted early.

I do think they should bring down the law against when you can have an abortion though. At the moment i think it is about 5 months? I think they should bring that down because at 5 months even though the baby is not fully developed, it is more human and developed than it would be at about 2-3 months

EDIt : And of course as other people have commented on, if the girl has been raped or sexualt abused in any way and she wants the abortion, she should definitely have the right to do so

Radical Dreamer

07-20-2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Debs@Jul 20 2004, 06:59 PM
I think that abortion is wrong in the sense that it is killing a human being but it can be a good thing.
At what point do you consider the child to be a "human being"?

In most cases, I think it's okay just as long as women don't exploit this advantage by using it as a form of birth control. Some women have reckless sex lives and might have several abortions because they were pregnant several times which sounds a bit ridiculous to me. Also, girls under 16 should be allowed abortion.

Debus

07-20-2004, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Radical Dreamer+Jul 20 2004, 09:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Radical Dreamer @ Jul 20 2004, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Debs@Jul 20 2004, 06:59 PM
I think that abortion is wrong in the sense that it is killing a human being but it can be a good thing.
At what point do you consider the child to be a "human being"?
[/b][/quote]
Around about 5 months i would consider the baby to be a human being, maybe even earlier. I don't know what they look like at certain stages in pregnancy but as i said, the cut off date for getting abortions should be brought down i think, by at least 1 month, maybe even two

Jila

07-21-2004, 03:16 AM

i believe someone should be able to have an abortion no matter what. people talk about how if a woman was just irrisponsible and didnt have protected sex, they should have to live with their mistake. well what about the guy who has sex with the girl? they could run off and never see her again, leaving her pregnant. unlike men, women cant just run away from the issue. plus they have to go through the pregnancy. i dont think men should have any say that abortions are wrong, let alone the government banning it.

honestly, if i were pregnant and i didnt want to have the kid, i would get an abortion. and if abortions are ever banned, i would kill it myself. throw myself down the stairs i dont care. i know that kind of seems extreme but pregnancy isnt really a walk in the park. if i dont want to have a baby i wont.

Ryan

07-21-2004, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by Mark+Jul 20 2004, 10:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jul 20 2004, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--hmartin84@Jul 20 2004, 04:09 AM
Rape is the one I'm torn between. If you don't want the baby to be born because it will remind you of your rape then you could put the baby up for adoption. If you dont want the rape to leave scars on your child as in kids pointing and laughing at the child because his daddy's a rapist then suggest that the parents keep it a secret, as if the parents wouldnt, anyways. There's many different things you can choose, abortion if a choice, but it's not the best.
So a woman gets tortured by a criminal, then she has to go through torture again to give birth to the bastards baby? You shouldn't say that unless you notice and understand the extreme amount of pain women go through to give birth. Understand that and respect that, because you will never feel that pain. [/b][/quote]
Exactly!! If anyone doesn't see this issue from this point of view then i think you have some serious thinking to do.

rosanna

07-21-2004, 09:54 PM

i think abortion is worng in all cases. if the woman was raped, then she can have someone adopt the baby. people are products of rape and it does not make them any worse than any other people.

if the woman has a disease, chances are she knew about it, and she needs to take responsibilty for her actions.

Mark

07-21-2004, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 21 2004, 07:24 PM
i think abortion is worng in all cases. if the woman was raped, then she can have someone adopt the baby. people are products of rape and it does not make them any worse than any other people.

if the woman has a disease, chances are she knew about it, and she needs to take responsibilty for her actions.
I'll say it again. Why should a woman have to go through the torture of having a baby just because she was unwillfully violated by a terrible criminal? That's like me stabbing you in the abdomen, and then telling you you can't take it out, no matter how much it hurts. Why do you want the victims to suffer even more? How cruel can people be nowadays?

xXLPGurlXx

07-22-2004, 01:53 AM

Abortion I think is so wrong. I mean if you don't want a child, then why did you have sex, knowing there is a chance of getting pregnant. That's just what I think. I don't know about what everyone else thinks though.

Mark

07-22-2004, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by xXLPGurlXx@Jul 21 2004, 11:23 PM
Abortion I think is so wrong. I mean if you don't want a child, then why did you have sex, knowing there is a chance of getting pregnant. That's just what I think. I don't know about what everyone else thinks though.
Condoms break, sweetie. And sometimes it's too late to notice you're pregnant to start using the pill.

What about women who are raped?

Alacrity

07-22-2004, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by Mark+Jul 21 2004, 11:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jul 21 2004, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--xXLPGurlXx@Jul 21 2004, 11:23 PM
Abortion I think is so wrong. I mean if you don't want a child, then why did you have sex, knowing there is a chance of getting pregnant. That's just what I think. I don't know about what everyone else thinks though.
Condoms break, sweetie. And sometimes it's too late to notice you're pregnant to start using the pill.

What about women who are raped? [/b][/quote]
If you're responsible enough to have sex you should be responsible enough to make sure that doesn't happen. If I have sex and don't want to carry around a baby for 9 months, i'll be damn sure I don't get knocked up. How is that for pro choice? Choice to either choose abstinence or be careful. Rape victims- there was no choice, why make the women suffer more? Baby deformities- I can understand some people not being able to take care of a disabled child or a child that may die at birth. Other than that, the pregnancy could've been prevented, the couple should've made the choice to use protection and be careful.

Will

07-22-2004, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by Alacrity@Jul 21 2004, 10:43 PM
If you're responsible enough to have sex you should be responsible enough to make sure that doesn't happen.
So do you expect everyone to inspect every condom they use for 10 hours before using it?

[edit]
What I mean is, you can't hold someone responsible if a condom breaks. No matter how careful or responsible someone is, if a condom breaks, they have no control over it. At least they were taking the precautions.

ass_kicker

07-22-2004, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Will+Jul 22 2004, 05:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 22 2004, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 21 2004, 10:43 PM
If you're responsible enough to have sex you should be responsible enough to make sure that doesn't happen.
So do you expect everyone to inspect every condom they use for 10 hours before using it?

[edit]
What I mean is, you can't hold someone responsible if a condom breaks. No matter how careful or responsible someone is, if a condom breaks, they have no control over it. At least they were taking the precautions. [/b][/quote]
i think what fiona means is that if you have sex you should know about the consequences. and yes, it can happen that your condom breaks or something like that, but you made your decision and you took the risk. unless of course you were forced to do that.

Alacrity

07-22-2004, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 22 2004, 03:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 22 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 22 2004, 05:46 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 21 2004, 10:43 PM
If you're responsible enough to have sex you should be responsible enough to make sure that doesn't happen.
So do you expect everyone to inspect every condom they use for 10 hours before using it?

[edit]
What I mean is, you can't hold someone responsible if a condom breaks. No matter how careful or responsible someone is, if a condom breaks, they have no control over it. At least they were taking the precautions.
i think what fiona means is that if you have sex you should know about the consequences. and yes, it can happen that your condom breaks or something like that, but you made your decision and you took the risk. unless of course you were forced to do that. [/b][/quote]
Exactly.

The LP Junkie

07-22-2004, 07:52 PM

Each to their own. If a rape victim wants to keep her child, fine. But if she wants an abortion, NO ONE has the right to tell her she shouldn't.

i just read back through the posts, and i agree with the person who said that.
I think that no matter what the circumstances, it is upto the mother to decide whether or not to raise the child. If she wishes to have an abortion then thats her decision, and if she wants to keep it and give it the best life that she can then thats also her decision. who are we to judge on her emotions and her feelings? just because we dont like the way that she acts, that automatically means that she is wrong and is criminal?

i completely hate the way that people use abortion as a method of birth control, but i think you have to look as a whole perspective. if abortion was made illegal, but a woman (who was raped, or had unprotected sex, or whatever) was still desperate not to have a child, surely she would turn to other methods of attempting to get rid of the child, which really doesnt bare thinking about. you're most probably always going to get idiots who view abortion as birth control, but thats just how the system is abused, and is how the cookie crumbles.

is it right to make a woman suffer through 9 months of pregnancy and then living the rest of her life knowing that she had a child that she didnt want? theres still the emotional drain there.

lol well to sum up, i just think abortion should be kept legal...

ass_kicker

07-23-2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by The LP Junkie@Jul 22 2004, 07:52 PM

Each to their own. If a rape victim wants to keep her child, fine. But if she wants an abortion, NO ONE has the right to tell her she shouldn't.

i just read back through the posts, and i agree with the person who said that.
I think that no matter what the circumstances, it is upto the mother to decide whether or not to raise the child. If she wishes to have an abortion then thats her decision, and if she wants to keep it and give it the best life that she can then thats also her decision. who are we to judge on her emotions and her feelings? just because we dont like the way that she acts, that automatically means that she is wrong and is criminal?

i completely hate the way that people use abortion as a method of birth control, but i think you have to look as a whole perspective. if abortion was made illegal, but a woman (who was raped, or had unprotected sex, or whatever) was still desperate not to have a child, surely she would turn to other methods of attempting to get rid of the child, which really doesnt bare thinking about. you're most probably always going to get idiots who view abortion as birth control, but thats just how the system is abused, and is how the cookie crumbles.

is it right to make a woman suffer through 9 months of pregnancy and then living the rest of her life knowing that she had a child that she didnt want? theres still the emotional drain there.

lol well to sum up, i just think abortion should be kept legal...
in a way i believe no one has the right to force a woman to give birth to a baby. but i also think people who have sex should face the consequences (except for extreme situations like rape), otherwise the population would decrease a lot.
haha im trying to sound smart.

rosanna

07-23-2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 22 2004, 03:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 22 2004, 03:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jul 21 2004, 11:28 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--xXLPGurlXx@Jul 21 2004, 11:23 PM
Abortion I think is so wrong. I mean if you don't want a child, then why did you have sex, knowing there is a chance of getting pregnant. That's just what I think. I don't know about what everyone else thinks though.
Condoms break, sweetie. And sometimes it's too late to notice you're pregnant to start using the pill.

What about women who are raped?
If you're responsible enough to have sex you should be responsible enough to make sure that doesn't happen. If I have sex and don't want to carry around a baby for 9 months, i'll be damn sure I don't get knocked up. How is that for pro choice? Choice to either choose abstinence or be careful. Rape victims- there was no choice, why make the women suffer more? Baby deformities- I can understand some people not being able to take care of a disabled child or a child that may die at birth. Other than that, the pregnancy could've been prevented, the couple should've made the choice to use protection and be careful. [/b][/quote]
yup i agree! and what's more, a woman would probably get arrested if she performed an abortion on herself (and there are ways to do that) but when a doctor does it, it's all good. whatever. anyone seen dirty dancing? that stuff really does happen. well sure she isn't pregnant anymore, but she's dying from the pain. better to not have abortion at all, in my opinion.

Todd

07-23-2004, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by ass_kicker@Jul 22 2004, 02:29 PM

i think what fiona means is that if you have sex you should know about the consequences. and yes, it can happen that your condom breaks or something like that, but you made your decision and you took the risk. unless of course you were forced to do that.
so then by that logic with consequences and all, lets say someone is driving down the road when someone hits them and they end up getting injured badly. So should the hospital not treat them and force them to live in pain because getting injured is a consquence of driving?

rosanna

07-23-2004, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 23 2004, 03:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 23 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@Jul 22 2004, 02:29 PM

i think what fiona means is that if you have sex you should know about the consequences. and yes, it can happen that your condom breaks or something like that, but you made your decision and you took the risk. unless of course you were forced to do that.
so then by that logic with consequences and all, lets say someone is driving down the road when someone hits them and they end up getting injured badly. So should the hospital not treat them and force them to live in pain because getting injured is a consquence of driving? [/b][/quote]
i think that the hospital should not help someone who deliberately got into an accident. like lets say that someone blew up a building, and they blew an arm off while they were doing so (i dont know if that is possible or not i never attempted to do so). the hospital should stop the bleeding and so on, but the person should not be allowed to get plastic surgery or anything like that, so they will be forced to live with the consequences of their actions for the rest of their lives.
same when someone has sex and the condom breaks.

Will

07-23-2004, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 23 2004, 10:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 23 2004, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@Jul 22 2004, 02:29 PM

i think what fiona means is that if you have sex you should know about the consequences. and yes, it can happen that your condom breaks or something like that, but you made your decision and you took the risk. unless of course you were forced to do that.
so then by that logic with consequences and all, lets say someone is driving down the road when someone hits them and they end up getting injured badly. So should the hospital not treat them and force them to live in pain because getting injured is a consquence of driving? [/b][/quote]
lol. That was my point.

Todd

07-23-2004, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 11:09 AM

i think that the hospital should not help someone who deliberately got into an accident.
no, the accident is someone elses fault. You were just driving and someone hit you. You were wearing a seatbelt, your airbags were in working order, but you still got hurt

Same thing when a condom breaks. You made every effort to make sure she doesnt get pregnant, but if something does happen, you cant help it

rosanna

07-23-2004, 04:23 PM

i understand what you are saying, but you can do other things like double up and use diaphragms and stuff like that.

Alacrity

07-23-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 23 2004, 11:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 23 2004, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@Jul 22 2004, 02:29 PM

i think what fiona means is that if you have sex you should know about the consequences. and yes, it can happen that your condom breaks or something like that, but you made your decision and you took the risk. unless of course you were forced to do that.
so then by that logic with consequences and all, lets say someone is driving down the road when someone hits them and they end up getting injured badly. So should the hospital not treat them and force them to live in pain because getting injured is a consquence of driving? [/b][/quote]
That's apples and oranges. Even if you were to make that comparision, don't tell me that if you got hit by an 18 wheeler you didn't see or hear it coming first ;)

Todd

07-23-2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 11:23 AM
i understand what you are saying, but you can do other things like double up and use diaphragms and stuff like that.
doubleing up increases the chance of the condom breaking because the friction between the 2 causes them to tear.

Will

07-23-2004, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 23 2004, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 23 2004, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 23 2004, 11:29 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--ass_kicker@Jul 22 2004, 02:29 PM

i think what fiona means is that if you have sex you should know about the consequences. and yes, it can happen that your condom breaks or something like that, but you made your decision and you took the risk. unless of course you were forced to do that.
so then by that logic with consequences and all, lets say someone is driving down the road when someone hits them and they end up getting injured badly. So should the hospital not treat them and force them to live in pain because getting injured is a consquence of driving?
That's apples and oranges. Even if you were to make that comparision, don't tell me that if you got hit by an 18 wheeler you didn't see or hear it coming first ;) [/b][/quote]
When I'm on the freeway, unless I have a window down, I cannot hear any traffic outside my vehicle. I also wouldn't check my rearview mirror every five seconds to see if I was about to get ass-reamed, so I wouldn't be able to see it coming up on me if it hit me from behind if I wasn't looking. Also, semis have blind spots. Even if you think you're clear of one, one can cut over and wreck you. Did you see it? Nope. You thought you were clear of it.

Don't assume things. You have a bad habit of doing that.

rosanna

07-23-2004, 05:02 PM

if you are really worried about your protection failing you, then abstain from sex. if not, you need to accept the consequences of your actions. easy as that.

Todd

07-23-2004, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 12:02 PM
if you are really worried about your protection failing you, then abstain from sex. if not, you need to accept the consequences of your actions. easy as that.
Thats like telling someone to abstain from breathing because they might accidentally breathe in toxic fumes.

rosanna

07-23-2004, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 23 2004, 05:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 23 2004, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 12:02 PM
if you are really worried about your protection failing you, then abstain from sex. if not, you need to accept the consequences of your actions. easy as that.
Thats like telling someone to abstain from breathing because they might accidentally breathe in toxic fumes. [/b][/quote]
as much as i hate to admit it, sex is not essential to live.

Todd

07-23-2004, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114+Jul 23 2004, 12:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rosanna1114 @ Jul 23 2004, 12:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 23 2004, 05:12 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 12:02 PM
if you are really worried about your protection failing you, then abstain from sex. if not, you need to accept the consequences of your actions. easy as that.
Thats like telling someone to abstain from breathing because they might accidentally breathe in toxic fumes.
as much as i hate to admit it, sex is not essential to live. [/b][/quote]
Until artificial insemenation is quick, easy and cheap, sex is essential to life

rosanna

07-23-2004, 06:03 PM

sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.

ass_kicker

07-23-2004, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 06:03 PM
sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.
smart. ^_^ i agree.

rosanna

07-23-2004, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 23 2004, 06:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 23 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 06:03 PM
sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.
smart. ^_^ i agree. [/b][/quote]
lol hahaha thanx!! :D

TheVoodoo

07-23-2004, 08:46 PM

Well put again Rosanna. :P

Alacrity

07-23-2004, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 02:03 PM
sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.
Damn, good point!

TheVoodoo

07-23-2004, 08:54 PM

Ya, I can't believe someone didn't say that earlier.... Your a genious!

rosanna

07-23-2004, 09:04 PM

i try...! :lol: hee hee hee hee i feel so important now! :D

Jila

07-24-2004, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 11:03 AM
sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.
well thats not the reason why most people have sex. besides, what about people who never want to have kids? i suppose you want them to be virgins until they die.

oh, and on that population decrease someone mentioned, humans are already overpopulating this world. the more people there are, the more we destroy, pollute, and ruin the earth and other innocent living things.

don't do this

07-24-2004, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Jul 24 2004, 06:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Jul 24 2004, 06:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 11:03 AM
sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.
well thats not the reason why most people have sex. besides, what about people who never want to have kids? i suppose you want them to be virgins until they die.

oh, and on that population decrease someone mentioned, humans are already overpopulating this world. the more people there are, the more we destroy, pollute, and ruin the earth and other innocent living things.[/b][/quote]
can't choose...both of you put good points forward

Messy Marj

07-24-2004, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Jul 24 2004, 06:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Jul 24 2004, 06:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 11:03 AM
sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.
well thats not the reason why most people have sex. besides, what about people who never want to have kids? i suppose you want them to be virgins until they die.

oh, and on that population decrease someone mentioned, humans are already overpopulating this world. the more people there are, the more we destroy, pollute, and ruin the earth and other innocent living things. [/b][/quote]
Good point Jila. I agree with you.

ass_kicker

07-24-2004, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by ghost child+Jul 24 2004, 08:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ghost child @ Jul 24 2004, 08:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 24 2004, 06:05 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 11:03 AM
sex to reproduce is essential to life, but if you were only having sex to reproduce then you would not need abortion.
well thats not the reason why most people have sex. besides, what about people who never want to have kids? i suppose you want them to be virgins until they die.

oh, and on that population decrease someone mentioned, humans are already overpopulating this world. the more people there are, the more we destroy, pollute, and ruin the earth and other innocent living things.
Good point Jila. I agree with you. [/b][/quote]
but rosanne was just coming back to todd's point about sex being essantial. :D
im like ros's lawyer :lol: ok ill stop now.
i still agree with her though.

rosanna

07-24-2004, 01:42 PM

hahaha katie....:D looks like i need a lawyer here.

todd said that sex is essential to life and i said only if you are having sex to reproduce, otherwise it is not. therefore no one needs to have sex unless they are doing it for the sole reason of reproduction. if they are doing it for that reason, they would not need to get an abortion.

Maëlle

07-24-2004, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by JoJaDaWg@Jul 19 2004, 04:32 PM
I disagree, even if a woman is raped, i still thing that they should go through with the pregnancy, there are so many adoption agencies out there.
Do you really think a woman has to be reminded every single day of her life for nine more months that she was raped? do you think she needs to go in more pain that she already was when she was raped? And if the woman puts the baby in an orphanage, there are chances that later he might want to know his parents and if he finds her mother and she tells him his father was a rapist, what do you think he'll think? Depression will ensue and that could even lead to suicide. So to make a short story the child could either die before knowing his history or either die of depression and shame which would be another ''wasted'' life.

That's it.

(Okay, I know a bit too far with the depression and everything but I was inspired. And I also know that this quote is old, but I just looked at that thread for the first time ever)

Todd

07-25-2004, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 24 2004, 08:42 AM
hahaha katie....:D looks like i need a lawyer here.

todd said that sex is essential to life and i said only if you are having sex to reproduce, otherwise it is not. therefore no one needs to have sex unless they are doing it for the sole reason of reproduction. if they are doing it for that reason, they would not need to get an abortion.
But everyone does it for reasons besides reproduction and that's not going to change. And keeping abortion legal is a lot easier than changing society to only f*ck for reproduction.

Alacrity

07-25-2004, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 24 2004, 11:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 24 2004, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 24 2004, 08:42 AM
hahaha katie....:D* looks like i need a lawyer here.*

todd said that sex is essential to life and i said only if you are having sex to reproduce, otherwise it is not.* therefore no one needs to have sex unless they are doing it for the sole reason of reproduction.* if they are doing it for that reason, they would not need to get an abortion.
But everyone does it for reasons besides reproduction and that's not going to change. And keeping abortion legal is a lot easier than changing society to only f*ck for reproduction. [/b][/quote]
Bottom line though: Sex is for reproduction. When you choose to have sex for pleasure, deal with the consequences of having it if you're not careful or if an accedent happens.

Also, if you're that worried about a condom breaking, there are other methods of trying to not have a kid ;)

Cassie

07-25-2004, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 24 2004, 10:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 24 2004, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 24 2004, 11:30 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 24 2004, 08:42 AM
hahaha katie....:D* looks like i need a lawyer here.*

todd said that sex is essential to life and i said only if you are having sex to reproduce, otherwise it is not.* therefore no one needs to have sex unless they are doing it for the sole reason of reproduction.* if they are doing it for that reason, they would not need to get an abortion.
But everyone does it for reasons besides reproduction and that's not going to change. And keeping abortion legal is a lot easier than changing society to only f*ck for reproduction.
Bottom line though: Sex is for reproduction. When you choose to have sex for pleasure, deal with the consequences of having it if you're not careful or if an accedent happens.

Also, if you're that worried about a condom breaking, there are other methods of trying to not have a kid ;) [/b][/quote]
i.e. - Birth control. 99.9 % effective. It's my life line. Thankee very much.

Todd

07-25-2004, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Alacrity@Jul 24 2004, 10:36 PM

Also, if you're that worried about a condom breaking, there are other methods of trying to not have a kid ;)
yes, but im pretty sure that condoms are most effective unless you're talking about a vasectimy or histerectomy (isnt that what theyre called) which isnt always a good idea if you do want to have kids in the future

Will

07-25-2004, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Alacrity@Jul 24 2004, 10:36 PM
Bottom line though: Sex is for reproduction. When you choose to have sex for pleasure, deal with the consequences of having it if you're not careful or if an accedent happens.
So you're saying that if someone has an "accident" where they fall off a roof and break their back, they have to just deal with falling off the roof? Wow. Some sympathy you've got.

ass_kicker

07-25-2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Will+Jul 25 2004, 09:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 25 2004, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 24 2004, 10:36 PM
Bottom line though: Sex is for reproduction. When you choose to have sex for pleasure, deal with the consequences of having it if you're not careful or if an accedent happens.
So you're saying that if someone has an "accident" where they fall off a roof and break their back, they have to just deal with falling off the roof? Wow. Some sympathy you've got. [/b][/quote]
huh? whats falling of a roof got to do with anything? i mean i get what you were trying to say, i think.
this is what i believe in: abortion is wrong no matter what. but in some cases its understandable. in situations like rape. in all the other cases, its like murder. but i think people should be able to decide for themselves (themself? grrr... english grammar).

Will

07-25-2004, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by ass_kicker@Jul 25 2004, 06:57 AM
huh? whats falling of a roof got to do with anything? i mean i get what you were trying to say, i think.
I said that as an example of her asinine statement that you should just deal with an accident.

I mean, I agree that they should take the responsibility, but just saying "deal with it" isn't very nice. lol.

rosanna

07-26-2004, 02:05 PM

i still think abortion is wrong in all cases, rape or not. if a woman is not going to love her child because it was the product of a rape, then the mother should not be a mother. what if someone gets pregnant and the father leaves her before the baby is born? should she get an abortion then because looking at the baby would remind her of all the good times they had together?

Alacrity

07-26-2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Will+Jul 25 2004, 05:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 25 2004, 05:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 24 2004, 10:36 PM
Bottom line though: Sex is for reproduction. When you choose to have sex for pleasure, deal with the consequences of having it if you're not careful or if an accedent happens.
So you're saying that if someone has an "accident" where they fall off a roof and break their back, they have to just deal with falling off the roof? Wow. Some sympathy you've got. [/b][/quote]
Falling off a roof and having a baby are two totally different things.

and @Todd- Birth control ;)

Todd

07-26-2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 09:05 AM
i still think abortion is wrong in all cases, rape or not. if a woman is not going to love her child because it was the product of a rape, then the mother should not be a mother.
wow you just contradicted yourself. If she shouldnt be a mother because she wont love her child thats a product of rape, duh, she has to have an abortion.

rosanna

07-26-2004, 03:09 PM

ooh sh*t my bad....
i meant that she would be wrong to not love the child just because they were the product of a rape...it is not the child's fault, so they should not take the punishment.

Todd

07-26-2004, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 10:09 AM
ooh sh*t my bad....
i meant that she would be wrong to not love the child just because they were the product of a rape...it is not the child's fault, so they should not take the punishment.
how would she be wrong? Obviously, its a child she didnt want in the first place and then every time she looked at the child she would be reminded of the man who raped her.

rosanna

07-26-2004, 03:49 PM

i understand that. however she should not kill the child because of something that happened that was not the child's fault. if that is really going to be a problem, she should put the baby up for adoption. the baby is not going to be defective because it was the product of a rape.

Todd

07-26-2004, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 10:49 AM
i understand that. however she should not kill the child because of something that happened that was not the child's fault. if that is really going to be a problem, she should put the baby up for adoption. the baby is not going to be defective because it was the product of a rape.
and why should the woman go through the pain of a full pregnancy if she didn't have to? you guys keep acting like having a baby is a painless walk in the park. its not. after you've taken a middle school health class and learned about pregnancy, come back and say she should be stuck with the baby.

rosanna

07-26-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 26 2004, 03:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 26 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 10:49 AM
i understand that.* however she should not kill the child because of something that happened that was not the child's fault.* if that is really going to be a problem, she should put the baby up for adoption.* the baby is not going to be defective because it was the product of a rape.
and why should the woman go through the pain of a full pregnancy if she didn't have to? you guys keep acting like having a baby is a painless walk in the park. its not. after you've taken a middle school health class and learned about pregnancy, come back and say she should be stuck with the baby. [/b][/quote]
i know what pregnancy is like, that is the reason why i am never going to get pregnant...and the reason why i am not having sex right now. i am just saying that having an abortion is an indirect act of murder, and i do not think that anyone should have one. i know that my opinion is not going to change any laws, and i know that even if the laws were changed, it would still be performed illegally. i am not stupid. i was just stating my opinion on the possibility that abortion is not a necessity.

Jila

07-27-2004, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by rosanna1114+Jul 26 2004, 09:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rosanna1114 @ Jul 26 2004, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 26 2004, 03:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 10:49 AM
i understand that.* however she should not kill the child because of something that happened that was not the child's fault.* if that is really going to be a problem, she should put the baby up for adoption.* the baby is not going to be defective because it was the product of a rape.
and why should the woman go through the pain of a full pregnancy if she didn't have to? you guys keep acting like having a baby is a painless walk in the park. its not. after you've taken a middle school health class and learned about pregnancy, come back and say she should be stuck with the baby.
i know what pregnancy is like, that is the reason why i am never going to get pregnant...and the reason why i am not having sex right now.[/b[ i am just saying that having an abortion is an indirect act of murder, and i do not think that anyone should have one. i know that my opinion is not going to change any laws, and i know that even if the laws were changed, it would still be performed illegally. i am not stupid. i was just stating my opinion on the possibility that abortion is not a necessity. [/quote]
basically what youve been saying before is that if you are pregnant then you should deal with the consequences. but then you just said you wont have sex right now and if an accident does occur, then it would be your fault and you should have to stay pregnant even though you are "never going to get pregnant". so unless you are going to live up to what youre saying, then you should be a virgin forever.

ass_kicker

07-27-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Jul 27 2004, 02:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Jul 27 2004, 02:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 26 2004, 03:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 10:49 AM
i understand that.* however she should not kill the child because of something that happened that was not the child's fault.* if that is really going to be a problem, she should put the baby up for adoption.* the baby is not going to be defective because it was the product of a rape.
and why should the woman go through the pain of a full pregnancy if she didn't have to? you guys keep acting like having a baby is a painless walk in the park. its not. after you've taken a middle school health class and learned about pregnancy, come back and say she should be stuck with the baby.
i know what pregnancy is like, that is the reason why i am never going to get pregnant...and the reason why i am not having sex right now.[/b[ i am just saying that having an abortion is an indirect act of murder, and i do not think that anyone should have one. i know that my opinion is not going to change any laws, and i know that even if the laws were changed, it would still be performed illegally. i am not stupid. i was just stating my opinion on the possibility that abortion is not a necessity.
basically what youve been saying before is that if you are pregnant then you should deal with the consequences. but then you just said you wont have sex right now and if an accident does occur, then it would be your fault and you should have to stay pregnant even though you are "never going to get pregnant". so unless you are going to live up to what youre saying, then you should be a virgin forever. [/quote]
who says she wont?
but i really do get what shes saying. shes not having sex right now because shes aware of the consequences, not because she'd get an abortion if she got pregnant. and i support her decision because im doing the same.

Todd

07-27-2004, 05:08 PM

So what if the mothers life is in danger if she gives birth or doctors know the baby has some sort of deformity or disease, then are you still going to say abortion is wrong? :rolleyes:

rosanna

07-27-2004, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by ass_kicker@Jul 27 2004, 10:29 AM
who says she wont?
but i really do get what shes saying. shes not having sex right now because shes aware of the consequences, not because she'd get an abortion if she got pregnant. and i support her decision because im doing the same.

haha katie glad to see you got my back.

and todd, it is not the baby's fault that they have a deformity. they should not be punished. just because a baby may have a harder life than other people does not mean that it should be denied life at all.

the vast majority of abortions are performed in order for the mother to not have to deal with having a child. the bottom line is that most abortions are done on account of the mother's selfishness. she doesn't want to have the baby, so she is going to get rid of it. simple as that. she does not think about the fact that abortion is murder. all she cares about is her reputation, or her boyfriend staying with her, or something like that. if abortion was made illegal, then people would be forced to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Will

07-27-2004, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 27 2004, 12:27 PM
and todd, it is not the baby's fault that they have a deformity. they should not be punished. just because a baby may have a harder life than other people does not mean that it should be denied life at all.
So you would rather have a child suffer his entire life instead of letting him rest in peace?

Wow...

Todd

07-27-2004, 05:41 PM

So what if giving birth can cause harm to the mother. Should she suffer, even die just so she can have the goddamn kid?

emmmers

07-27-2004, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 27 2004, 09:27 AM
it is not the baby's fault that they have a deformity.
Exactly, you even said it yourself. It's not the baby's fault he or she has to live a screwed life because the mom was on drugs or alcohol during pregnancy.

The Doctor

07-27-2004, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks+Jul 27 2004, 06:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (When.Karma.Attacks @ Jul 27 2004, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 27 2004, 09:27 AM
it is not the baby's fault that they have a deformity.
Exactly, you even said it yourself. It's not the baby's fault he or she has to live a screwed life because the mom was on drugs or alcohol during pregnancy. [/b][/quote]
Babies dont always get deformed for that reason. Dont generalize. There can be other reasons.

Alacrity

07-28-2004, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 27 2004, 01:41 PM
So what if giving birth can cause harm to the mother. Should she suffer, even die just so she can have the goddamn kid?
Cesarians(sp?) AKA C-Sections. Unless the baby has a serious deformity, I wouldn't see the reason in aborting it.

Todd

07-28-2004, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks+Jul 27 2004, 05:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (When.Karma.Attacks @ Jul 27 2004, 05:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 27 2004, 09:27 AM
it is not the baby's fault that they have a deformity.
Exactly, you even said it yourself. It's not the baby's fault he or she has to live a screwed life because the mom was on drugs or alcohol during pregnancy. [/b][/quote]
A baby can get a serious deformity if the mother has never had a drink or cigarette in her life and is as healthy as you can get.

Mark

07-28-2004, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 28 2004, 01:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 28 2004, 01:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -When.Karma.Attacks@Jul 27 2004, 05:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 27 2004, 09:27 AM
it is not the baby's fault that they have a deformity.
Exactly, you even said it yourself. It's not the baby's fault he or she has to live a screwed life because the mom was on drugs or alcohol during pregnancy.
A baby can get a serious deformity if the mother has never had a drink or cigarette in her life and is as healthy as you can get. [/b][/quote]
Exactly, a lack or surplus of chromosomes can do that.

emmmers

07-28-2004, 05:08 AM

Yeah sorry I realize that was a generalization, I was just stressing the point that it wouldn't be right for a baby to suffer their whole life just because they were unfortunately born to the wrong folks.

Todd

07-28-2004, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks@Jul 28 2004, 12:08 AM
Yeah sorry I realize that was a generalization, I was just stressing the point that it wouldn't be right for a baby to suffer their whole life just because they were unfortunately born to the wrong folks.
exactly, it wouldn't be right for the baby to suffer so it should be aborted

Jila

07-28-2004, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 27 2004, 03:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 27 2004, 03:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 27 2004, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by -rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 26 2004, 03:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 26 2004, 10:49 AM
i understand that.* however she should not kill the child because of something that happened that was not the child's fault.* if that is really going to be a problem, she should put the baby up for adoption.* the baby is not going to be defective because it was the product of a rape.
and why should the woman go through the pain of a full pregnancy if she didn't have to? you guys keep acting like having a baby is a painless walk in the park. its not. after you've taken a middle school health class and learned about pregnancy, come back and say she should be stuck with the baby.
i know what pregnancy is like, that is the reason why i am never going to get pregnant...and the reason why i am not having sex right now. i am just saying that having an abortion is an indirect act of murder, and i do not think that anyone should have one. i know that my opinion is not going to change any laws, and i know that even if the laws were changed, it would still be performed illegally. i am not stupid. i was just stating my opinion on the possibility that abortion is not a necessity.
basically what youve been saying before is that if you are pregnant then you should deal with the consequences. but then you just said you wont have sex right now and if an accident does occur, then it would be your fault and you should have to stay pregnant even though you are "never going to get pregnant". so unless you are going to live up to what youre saying, then you should be a virgin forever.
who says she wont?
but i really do get what shes saying. shes not having sex right now because shes aware of the consequences, not because she'd get an abortion if she got pregnant. and i support her decision because im doing the same. [/b][/quote]
yeah but what she was saying was that if you dont want to be pregnant then dont have sex. then she said she would never get pregnant but wont have sex yet. therefore, it contradicts what she was saying.

ass_kicker

07-28-2004, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 27 2004, 05:08 PM
So what if the mothers life is in danger if she gives birth or doctors know the baby has some sort of deformity or disease, then are you still going to say abortion is wrong? :rolleyes:
no. then i say its up to the mother. heres what im saying, my final statement:
i think abortion is wrong, except for situations when mother's physical or emotional health is in serious danger - example rape - then its acceptable (for me at least). but i think it should be legal. nobody has the right to tell other people whats right or wrong. let the mothers decide for themselves.

[Brkng Th H@bt]

07-28-2004, 11:09 AM

I wouldn't think that having an abortion is a right or wrong situation. Like make many others have said, it really depends on what the case is.

If it was a rape, you might as well have an abortion. Why would you want to go through such labor to have a baby that you didn't even want, and were literally forced to have?

Or, maybe you had sex with your boyfriend, or husband or something like that, but you didn't want a baby. And you still got pregnant. I think that you should not kill it, give birth, and give it up for adoption. There are some women out there with the disability of giving birth and really want to have a child.

So, there's really no right or wrong. Depends on the situation.

rosanna

07-28-2004, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks+Jul 27 2004, 10:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (When.Karma.Attacks @ Jul 27 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 27 2004, 09:27 AM
it is not the baby's fault that they have a deformity.
Exactly, you even said it yourself. It's not the baby's fault he or she has to live a screwed life because the mom was on drugs or alcohol during pregnancy. [/b][/quote]
then wtf is the mother doing having children if she is too irresponsible to care about its well being?

abortion is used as an excuse for the mother to continue being irresponsible. i think it should be made illegal except in extreme cases. and even then i will not agreee with it, because i see it as murder. i do not like murder, i do not think it should be legal in any case, and that is the way i think. yet again, i know that my opinion is not going to change anything, but that is why it is good to be able to have opinions, because that is what you think. no one is right or wrong here.

Todd

07-28-2004, 05:11 PM

abortion is not murder! the fetus is not a living thing until it can live on its own....when it's born. until then, it's just a thing and not a human life yet

Alacrity

07-28-2004, 05:43 PM

Albert Einstein was almost aborted. You never know how much a child may change the world until you give them a chance. If you make abortion legal and it becomes another birth control...think of how many lives would be taken away before the even begin.

ass_kicker

07-28-2004, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 28 2004, 05:11 PM
abortion is not murder! the fetus is not a living thing until it can live on its own....when it's born. until then, it's just a thing and not a human life yet
it depends on your own opinion. i think it is murder no matter what excuses i find. so what its not a full developed human being? it will be one soon enough.
thats what i think and im not trying to convince anybody.

Disturbed

07-28-2004, 08:28 PM

I am a pro choice guy.

I agree with abortion unless its Partial Birth Abortion. That isn't right IMO.

emmmers

07-28-2004, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity@Jul 28 2004, 09:43 AM
Albert Einstein was almost aborted. You never know how much a child may change the world until you give them a chance.
It just as well could have been Osama bin Laden.

Jila

07-28-2004, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by When.Karma.Attacks+Jul 28 2004, 02:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (When.Karma.Attacks @ Jul 28 2004, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 28 2004, 09:43 AM
Albert Einstein was almost aborted. You never know how much a child may change the world until you give them a chance.
It just as well could have been Osama bin Laden. [/b][/quote]
:lol:

well all the people who said that abortion is murder, think about the next time you eat meat. that steak didnt come from nothing. it was an innocent animal that was killed by people. birds get hunted and no one does anything about it. now i dont want to get into this whole animal rights issue, but that is seriously hypocritical. its okay to kill an animal but not a person? thats really messed up.

[/rant]

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.

and another thing, there are so many sick guys out there who kill their pregnant girlfriends. if abortions are legal, the woman have no choice and are forced to be pregnant. so im sure the killing rate of pregnant women will rise because they cant have an abortion.

Link04

07-29-2004, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Jul 28 2004, 10:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Jul 28 2004, 10:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -When.Karma.Attacks@Jul 28 2004, 02:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 28 2004, 09:43 AM
Albert Einstein was almost aborted. You never know how much a child may change the world until you give them a chance.
It just as well could have been Osama bin Laden.
:lol:

well all the people who said that abortion is murder, think about the next time you eat meat. that steak didnt come from nothing. it was an innocent animal that was killed by people. birds get hunted and no one does anything about it. now i dont want to get into this whole animal rights issue, but that is seriously hypocritical. its okay to kill an animal but not a person? thats really messed up.

[/rant]

[/b][/quote]
Heh, some people do believe a human's life is much more valuable then an animals, and that humans were given the distinct ability by God, evolution, or whatever you believe, to "rule" over Earth's other creatures.

Just an opposing perspective.

Jila

07-29-2004, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Link04+Jul 28 2004, 06:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Jul 28 2004, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by -When.Karma.Attacks@Jul 28 2004, 02:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 28 2004, 09:43 AM
Albert Einstein was almost aborted. You never know how much a child may change the world until you give them a chance.
It just as well could have been Osama bin Laden.
:lol:

well all the people who said that abortion is murder, think about the next time you eat meat. that steak didnt come from nothing. it was an innocent animal that was killed by people. birds get hunted and no one does anything about it. now i dont want to get into this whole animal rights issue, but that is seriously hypocritical. its okay to kill an animal but not a person? thats really messed up.

[/rant]

Heh, some people do believe a human's life is much more valuable then an animals, and that humans were given the distinct ability by God, evolution, or whatever you believe, to "rule" over Earth's other creatures.

Just an opposing perspective. [/b][/quote]
yeah, thats f*cked up

if anything, humans are the worst form of living things and are the only things that kill for no reason.

Link04

07-29-2004, 01:55 AM

I won't disagree with you on that point

Will

07-29-2004, 01:56 AM

This ain't the thread for that...

Link04

07-29-2004, 02:02 AM

I was just saying, for the people who believe that a human's life has more value than an animals, it's not hypocritical at all.

And killing a fetus is an ENTIRE different story than not having sex. There's no terminating of something that's already developing, ready to exist as an individual.

Jila

07-29-2004, 02:26 AM

i still think a woman has a right to her own body. she shouldnt have to go though a painful pregnancy if she doesnt want to and shouldnt have that right taken away from her.

Todd

07-29-2004, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born.

Alacrity

07-29-2004, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born. [/b][/quote]
With sexual abstinecnce it's only an egg, you haven't combined the sperm and egg, chromosomes haven't split, and in 8 weeks the immune system isn't developed yet. You have sex, the women might not figure out that she's pregnant until she has a missed period. That's 4 weeks, possibly 5. Then to get an abortion you'd have to consider it and make an appointment. You want to tell me that 6, maybe 7 weeks into the pregnancy, now you want to have an abortion? The thing almost has an immune system! It's a living thing inside of this woman. That, is murder.

rosanna

07-29-2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 29 2004, 12:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 29 2004, 12:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born.
With sexual abstinecnce it's only an egg, you haven't combined the sperm and egg, chromosomes haven't split, and in 8 weeks the immune system isn't developed yet. You have sex, the women might not figure out that she's pregnant until she has a missed period. That's 4 weeks, possibly 5. Then to get an abortion you'd have to consider it and make an appointment. You want to tell me that 6, maybe 7 weeks into the pregnancy, now you want to have an abortion? The thing almost has an immune system! It's a living thing inside of this woman. That, is murder. [/b][/quote]
DITTO

my thoughts exactly.

good one, alacrity :)

Will

07-29-2004, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 29 2004, 07:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 29 2004, 07:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born.
With sexual abstinecnce it's only an egg, you haven't combined the sperm and egg, chromosomes haven't split, and in 8 weeks the immune system isn't developed yet. You have sex, the women might not figure out that she's pregnant until she has a missed period. That's 4 weeks, possibly 5. Then to get an abortion you'd have to consider it and make an appointment. You want to tell me that 6, maybe 7 weeks into the pregnancy, now you want to have an abortion? The thing almost has an immune system! It's a living thing inside of this woman. That, is murder. [/b][/quote]
It isn't living inside of the woman. It's living with the help of the woman. Big difference.

Link04

07-30-2004, 04:31 PM

^ that's very true, but not having a child from abstinence and not having a child from abortion are two TOTALLY different things

Alacrity

07-30-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Will+Jul 29 2004, 11:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 29 2004, 11:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 29 2004, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born.
With sexual abstinecnce it's only an egg, you haven't combined the sperm and egg, chromosomes haven't split, and in 8 weeks the immune system isn't developed yet. You have sex, the women might not figure out that she's pregnant until she has a missed period. That's 4 weeks, possibly 5. Then to get an abortion you'd have to consider it and make an appointment. You want to tell me that 6, maybe 7 weeks into the pregnancy, now you want to have an abortion? The thing almost has an immune system! It's a living thing inside of this woman. That, is murder.
It isn't living inside of the woman. It's living with the help of the woman. Big difference. [/b][/quote]
Even living with the help of the woman, it's murder. You can't deny that.

rosanna

07-30-2004, 04:41 PM

when you choose not to have a baby from abstinence, there is no child involved. when you choose to abort a baby, the baby is already there, the damage is already done, and you are choosing to end life.

and what about all those premature babies that manage to live when they are only four months old? second trimester...that is when most abortions take place anyway. so the child CAN live without a mother at that point, it is just more difficult. therefore it is murder.

Mark

07-30-2004, 05:23 PM

The mother is the lifeline.

In many hospitals, families are given the choice of whether or not to pull the plug on their loved one's rescussitation (sp?) machine, the one thing that keeps them alive. They're given the chance. This can be applied to the mother, and the umbilical (sp?) cord which helps her baby stay alive. It should be the mothers choice. The baby has no chance of living without the cord, just like the person in that hospital bed cannot live without the machine.

rosanna

07-30-2004, 06:12 PM

hmm...that makes sense...however, the person on the life support machine has something wrong with them. the baby may be perfectly normal, but no one would know without giving the baby the chance to be born.

Will

07-30-2004, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 29 2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 29 2004, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born.
With sexual abstinecnce it's only an egg, you haven't combined the sperm and egg, chromosomes haven't split, and in 8 weeks the immune system isn't developed yet. You have sex, the women might not figure out that she's pregnant until she has a missed period. That's 4 weeks, possibly 5. Then to get an abortion you'd have to consider it and make an appointment. You want to tell me that 6, maybe 7 weeks into the pregnancy, now you want to have an abortion? The thing almost has an immune system! It's a living thing inside of this woman. That, is murder.
It isn't living inside of the woman. It's living with the help of the woman. Big difference.
Even living with the help of the woman, it's murder. You can't deny that. [/b][/quote]
Yes, I can. Why? Because I don't believe it's murder until the baby is born. A chicken inside an egg isn't alive until it hatches, so why would a baby be alive when it's inside its mother? Nothing is living until it can live without a direct lifeline.

Alacrity

07-30-2004, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Will+Jul 30 2004, 02:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 30 2004, 02:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by -Will@Jul 29 2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 29 2004, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born.
With sexual abstinecnce it's only an egg, you haven't combined the sperm and egg, chromosomes haven't split, and in 8 weeks the immune system isn't developed yet. You have sex, the women might not figure out that she's pregnant until she has a missed period. That's 4 weeks, possibly 5. Then to get an abortion you'd have to consider it and make an appointment. You want to tell me that 6, maybe 7 weeks into the pregnancy, now you want to have an abortion? The thing almost has an immune system! It's a living thing inside of this woman. That, is murder.
It isn't living inside of the woman. It's living with the help of the woman. Big difference.
Even living with the help of the woman, it's murder. You can't deny that.
Yes, I can. Why? Because I don't believe it's murder until the baby is born. A chicken inside an egg isn't alive until it hatches, so why would a baby be alive when it's inside its mother? Nothing is living until it can live without a direct lifeline. [/b][/quote]
But didn't you say it was living with the help of the mother? That'a lifeline, according to what Mark said.

Will

07-30-2004, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 01:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by -Will@Jul 29 2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 29 2004, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 28 2004, 11:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Jul 28 2004, 05:51 PM

but i do think its okay to have abortions since its just the fetus. if you say youre taking away its chance of life, then what about when you dont have sex? you never give a chance for the egg or sperm cells to give life. they just die. if youre want to have everything live, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of people.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You hit the nail on the head and brought up a really great point. If abortion is murder because the baby won't be born, then sexual abstinence which you preach so much is murder because the baby won't be born.
With sexual abstinecnce it's only an egg, you haven't combined the sperm and egg, chromosomes haven't split, and in 8 weeks the immune system isn't developed yet. You have sex, the women might not figure out that she's pregnant until she has a missed period. That's 4 weeks, possibly 5. Then to get an abortion you'd have to consider it and make an appointment. You want to tell me that 6, maybe 7 weeks into the pregnancy, now you want to have an abortion? The thing almost has an immune system! It's a living thing inside of this woman. That, is murder.
It isn't living inside of the woman. It's living with the help of the woman. Big difference.
Even living with the help of the woman, it's murder. You can't deny that.
Yes, I can. Why? Because I don't believe it's murder until the baby is born. A chicken inside an egg isn't alive until it hatches, so why would a baby be alive when it's inside its mother? Nothing is living until it can live without a direct lifeline.
But didn't you say it was living with the help of the mother? That'a lifeline, according to what Mark said. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, Mark said what I wanted to say, I didn't know the right word I wanted to use. Sue me.

Alacrity

07-30-2004, 06:40 PM

But by saying that now it has a lifeline, it's living- with help, it's livng- and killing that living thing is murder. Like Rosanna said, people that have recussitation ( I killed that word ) machines have something wrong with them. The baby doesn't have anything wrong until you give it a chance to live after birth. That's murder.

Will

07-30-2004, 06:45 PM

So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?

Alacrity

07-30-2004, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
Usually when people "pull the plug" it's because they are so ill there is no way they will get better. The same could happen to a newborn after birth. If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.

Todd

07-30-2004, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions. [/b][/quote]
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.

Alacrity

07-30-2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder. [/b][/quote]
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though.

Will

07-30-2004, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though. [/b][/quote]
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

Babies inside their mothers aren't "alive" until they're "born." That is the whole concept of being "born."

Alacrity

07-30-2004, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Will+Jul 30 2004, 03:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 30 2004, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though.
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

Babies inside their mothers aren't "alive" until they're "born." That is the whole concept of being "born." [/b][/quote]
Inside the mother it's a living thing that's growing cells and body parts. It's growing- what would you call it other than living?

Will

07-30-2004, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 02:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 02:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 30 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though.
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

Babies inside their mothers aren't "alive" until they're "born." That is the whole concept of being "born."
Inside the mother it's a living thing that's growing cells and body parts. It's growing- what would you call it other than living? [/b][/quote]
Developing.

The Doctor

07-30-2004, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 30 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though.
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

Babies inside their mothers aren't "alive" until they're "born." That is the whole concept of being "born."
Inside the mother it's a living thing that's growing cells and body parts. It's growing- what would you call it other than living? [/b][/quote]
Viruses grow. Viruses incubate. And they arent classified as a life form. Not everything that grows is living.

Alacrity

07-30-2004, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Nate+Jul 30 2004, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nate @ Jul 30 2004, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by -Will@Jul 30 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though.
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

Babies inside their mothers aren't "alive" until they're "born." That is the whole concept of being "born."
Inside the mother it's a living thing that's growing cells and body parts. It's growing- what would you call it other than living?
Viruses grow. Viruses incubate. And they arent classified as a life form. Not everything that grows is living. [/b][/quote]
Viruses don't have heartbeats ;)

Will

07-30-2004, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 02:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Nate@Jul 30 2004, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by -Will@Jul 30 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though.
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

Babies inside their mothers aren't "alive" until they're "born." That is the whole concept of being "born."
Inside the mother it's a living thing that's growing cells and body parts. It's growing- what would you call it other than living?
Viruses grow. Viruses incubate. And they arent classified as a life form. Not everything that grows is living.
Viruses don't have heartbeats ;) [/b][/quote]
Yeah, that facilitates whether something is living or not. Plants don't have heartbeats, yet they're living. And don't you even tell me they aren't living. There's a big difference between a dead plant and a living plant.

The Doctor

07-30-2004, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Jul 30 2004, 03:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Jul 30 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Nate@Jul 30 2004, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by -Will@Jul 30 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 30 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by -Alacrity@Jul 30 2004, 01:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 30 2004, 02:45 PM
So... it's not murder when you "pull the plug"?
If you just ran through a hospital at random pulling life supports- that'd be murder, right? Same thing with abortions.
no, pulling the plug is the decision of a consenting adult, so is abortion. neither are murder. If a doctor ran around focring random pregnant women to have abortions, then it would be murder.
The consent of the adult isn't soley based on the reason that they don't want the sick person, though.
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

Babies inside their mothers aren't "alive" until they're "born." That is the whole concept of being "born."
Inside the mother it's a living thing that's growing cells and body parts. It's growing- what would you call it other than living?
Viruses grow. Viruses incubate. And they arent classified as a life form. Not everything that grows is living.
Viruses don't have heartbeats ;) [/b][/quote]
Thats what I just said. :lol:

Paygun Poetree

07-30-2004, 08:08 PM

The act of deliberately taking a life is murder. Abortion is murder. End of story.

Will

07-30-2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 03:08 PM
The act of deliberately taking a life is murder. Abortion is murder. End of story.
In your opinion, yes.

Paygun Poetree

07-30-2004, 08:11 PM

What is your definition of murder then?

Will

07-30-2004, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 03:11 PM
What is your definition of murder then?
In my opinion, you cannot murder something that hasn't been born. It's as smple as that in my mind.

Paygun Poetree

07-30-2004, 08:15 PM

But just because it hasn't been born does not mean that it is alive. This fetus has the potential to be everything that you are, if given the right amount of time. Whether it is born or not it is still an individual.

Will

07-30-2004, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by Paygun Poetree@Jul 30 2004, 03:15 PM
But just because it hasn't been born does not mean that it is alive. This fetus has the potential to be everything that you are, if given the right amount of time. Whether it is born or not it is still an individual.
I agree with that but, like I said, in my opinion, something isn't alive until it has been born. That's just how I've always seen things.

Maëlle

07-31-2004, 09:58 PM

Recently in Montreal, a young father of 20 years old ''shook'' his baby to death.

Knowing that the children was unwanted, here's my question: What would have been better for him/her; for the woman to have an abortion so the baby wouldn't have felt the pain or is it better that the baby lived 2 months only to be murdered by his/her father?

This, my dears, is the question.

emmmers

07-31-2004, 11:38 PM

I think stuff like that would tend to happen a lot in abortion cases. I mean, if the baby is unwanted in the first place, being aborted would be an early solution to prevent a likely troubled life. Say the child in Maelle's scenario actually manages to grows up, more likely than not she/he is gonna have to deal with alot of problems, maybe eventually leading to the abortion of his/her own children. So it's all a chain-effect, a non-existing life is better than 2-3 screwed up lives.

rosanna

08-02-2004, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Will@Jul 30 2004, 07:32 PM
If I gave you the consent to plug me in the face with a 9mm and kill me, it's still murder. Why? Because I'm alive.

just so we are all straight here, this is not murder. this is assisted suicide and there are different consequences for that action than if someone just walked up and shot someone in the face.

and how do we know that the child does not feel pain when they are aborted? no one knows because none of us have been through that experience (obviously) and therefore no one can say what the baby feels. and babies are not aborted humanely. they are poisoned, reduced to mush and sucked out of a tube. there are pictures all over the internet but i don't remember any of the site names.

Will

08-02-2004, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Aug 2 2004, 10:20 AM
just so we are all straight here, this is not murder. this is assisted suicide and there are different consequences for that action than if someone just walked up and shot someone in the face.
It's not assisted suicide unless I say I'm committing suicide but can't do it myself so I have someone else do it...

I meant, if someone asks me if they can shoot me and I say yes, that's murder...

Todd

08-02-2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Aug 2 2004, 10:20 AM

just so we are all straight here, this is not murder. this is assisted suicide and there are different consequences for that action than if someone just walked up and shot someone in the face.

ever heard of jack kevorkian? the doctor who assisited his sick, terminally ill paitents with suicide? AFAIK, he was convicted of 1st degree murder. so yes, assisted suicide is murder

Hoodie

08-02-2004, 11:34 PM

Personally I think it is the business of the pregnant woman and the pregnant woman only, birth control or not. Why does anyone care what Jane Doe does with her baby? It's not your job to tell her how to live her life. I get annoyed by anyone who thinks it is.

ChooseYourPoison

08-03-2004, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Hoodie@Aug 2 2004, 11:34 PM
Personally I think it is the business of the pregnant woman and the pregnant woman only, birth control or not. Why does anyone care what Jane Doe does with her baby? It's not your job to tell her how to live her life. I get annoyed by anyone who thinks it is.
what if you were the father? Would you want to know if your baby is coming or not or have some say in it?

rosanna

08-03-2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Todd+Aug 2 2004, 03:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Aug 2 2004, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Aug 2 2004, 10:20 AM

just so we are all straight here, this is not murder. this is assisted suicide and there are different consequences for that action than if someone just walked up and shot someone in the face.

ever heard of jack kevorkian? the doctor who assisited his sick, terminally ill paitents with suicide? AFAIK, he was convicted of 1st degree murder. so yes, assisted suicide is murder [/b][/quote]
in the state of maryland, suicide is seen as murder. so people really dont know what murder is these days.

definition of murder in new college edition of the american heritage dictionary:
murder(n): the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with malice aforethought...to destroy or put an end to.

abortion is the destruction of a human, therefore it is murder.

The Doctor

08-03-2004, 03:49 PM

Well what you have to understand is the person is not technically alive until they are well into the pregnancy, WAY past the point of abortion. So technically it isnt taking a life.

Kevin

08-03-2004, 05:49 PM

I think it's already wrong to kill it because it's something that lives, But If the parents don't want it and they wanna take it away they can do it
it's their decision. But still I think it's wrong just be more carefull and you have no problemss if you don't want a baby yet

Jila

08-04-2004, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by HybridMinoda+Aug 2 2004, 07:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HybridMinoda @ Aug 2 2004, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Hoodie@Aug 2 2004, 11:34 PM
Personally I think it is the business of the pregnant woman and the pregnant woman only, birth control or not. Why does anyone care what Jane Doe does with her baby? It's not your job to tell her how to live her life. I get annoyed by anyone who thinks it is.
what if you were the father? Would you want to know if your baby is coming or not or have some say in it? [/b][/quote]
yeah but hes not the one with the baby coming out of his vagina

ass_kicker

08-12-2004, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by Nate@Aug 3 2004, 03:49 PM
Well what you have to understand is the person is not technically alive until they are well into the pregnancy, WAY past the point of abortion. So technically it isnt taking a life.
i think this depends on your point of view and your religion. if youre not letting the soon to be child to grow into an embryo, but kill it before, its also murder to me.

Ms. Tasha

08-16-2004, 01:37 AM

OK, now I'm gonna be as unbiased as possible here, theres just a few misconceptions about the abortion issue, such as rape and AIDS.

Preganancy in rape cases aren't that common for the pure fact that the guy's little swimmers don't work as well under the pressure that comes with commiting a rape. Sure if you're a serial rapist it'd be easier however, in most cases it's not going to be like that.

As for AIDS cases, woman who have AIDS/HIV and know it when they get pregnant, the chances of them passing it on to their child are 1%. 25% if the mother is unknowing.

Not to say whether or not women should have an abortion in either cases, I just don't think that either are a very logical reason for decision, or discussion by abortion rights activists.

And in most acses, a womans only capable of concieving 2-3 days a month, and its not hard to figure out when, there are plenty of ways to determine if you're ovulating and its not all that hard to just not have sex those 2-3 days. But crap happens, and I'm living proof. heh.

I don't see many cases in which an abortion is needed, especially now that I'm experiencing pregnancy as we speak (and shes kicking the #### out of me, :rolleyes: ), however I know that some women see no way out and in the end, as much as I don't like it, it's their choice.

However, unfortunately alot of women, my own mother being one of them, are denied alot of facts and options that could change the minds of women contemplating abortion. Which isn't right, because women make these choices that include another persons life, or to make you pro-choicers happy - potential life ^_^, without knowing all the facts about it, which is no good in any situation involving any subject.

Right down to it, I consider myself hardcore pro-life, but there are other opinions in it, and in most cases, if we care that much that we're all in this thread, we're all already set in our beliefs, whatever they are, and all these threads do is start fights.

But it's all gravy, baby. :hugz:

Maëlle

08-16-2004, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Ms. Tasha@Aug 15 2004, 09:37 PM
As for AIDS cases, woman who have AIDS/HIV and know it when they get pregnant, the chances of them passing it on to their child are 1%. 25% if the mother is unknowing.

I don't understand that part. :wth: From what I,ve heard, there's no way to cure or help AIDS/HIV so I don't see how knowing can help. But I'm not doctor, so there may be things I don't know about AIDS/HIV

ass_kicker

08-16-2004, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Aug 4 2004, 03:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Aug 4 2004, 03:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -HybridMinoda@Aug 2 2004, 07:21 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Hoodie@Aug 2 2004, 11:34 PM
Personally I think it is the business of the pregnant woman and the pregnant woman only, birth control or not. Why does anyone care what Jane Doe does with her baby? It's not your job to tell her how to live her life. I get annoyed by anyone who thinks it is.
what if you were the father? Would you want to know if your baby is coming or not or have some say in it?
yeah but hes not the one with the baby coming out of his vagina [/b][/quote]
yeah! i mean, the father has the right to talk to the pregnant woman, maybe try to convince her. but dude! its the woman who has to have the child, and in the long run, its her responsibility.

let the woman make the decision.

Ms. Tasha

08-16-2004, 03:49 PM

Well with the help that AIDS victims get from medicine, it reduces the chance of the baby contracting it. I suppose it's probably mostly because the virus doesn't travel through the placenta that well (but thats just my guess). :)

Also, I understand that the man doesn't have to carry the baby for 9 months, however I believe if he wants it the woman should do that much for him. I mean it's half his, just cause he doesn't have to carry it doesn't make him an obsolete part of the equation. IMO. And it's only 9 months, and lemme tell you, they fly by. At least they have for me. *shrugs*

And that topic also contradicts the 'if the baby is unwanted than better dead than in misery' stance, because just because the woman doesn't want it doesn't mean the man won't give it a wonderful life. :)

rosanna

08-16-2004, 10:40 PM

me and my boyfriend had this conversation today. it went like this:
me: i am never getting pregnant.
him: bullsh*t
me:well you aren't the one getting pregnant so you really have nothing to do with it.
him: blah blah blah

yeah you get my point. anyway, it is the decision of the mother. the father can have an influence, but in the end it is the mother that is getting operated on.

*smacks myself in the head*
what the hell am i saying this for?! i am prolife anyway!

Jila

08-17-2004, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Ms. Tasha@Aug 16 2004, 08:49 AM
Also, I understand that the man doesn't have to carry the baby for 9 months, however I believe if he wants it the woman should do that much for him. I mean it's half his, just cause he doesn't have to carry it doesn't make him an obsolete part of the equation. IMO. And it's only 9 months, and lemme tell you, they fly by. At least they have for me. *shrugs*
wow, you know what? theres this thing called "women's rights". i dont know if youve ever heard of it. women shouldnt have to go through 9 months of pregnancy just because the man "wants it" and could possibly not even end up taking care of it and having the mother do all that crap. women dont have to bow down to their husbands/boyfriends, it is the 21st century you know.

oh, and that 9 months fly by, 9 months is like a school year. you know when youre at school, you wish it were over. youre anxious for weekends. its like that whole time you wish school was over. well minus the weekends add morning sickness, contractions, a lot of pain, and labor, you got pregnancy. you might have found it wonderful, but that doesnt mean everyone is like you.

Link04

08-17-2004, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Aug 17 2004, 02:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Aug 17 2004, 02:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ms. Tasha@Aug 16 2004, 08:49 AM
Also, I understand that the man doesn't have to carry the baby for 9 months, however I believe if he wants it the woman should do that much for him. I mean it's half his, just cause he doesn't have to carry it doesn't make him an obsolete part of the equation. IMO. And it's only 9 months, and lemme tell you, they fly by. At least they have for me. *shrugs*
wow, you know what? theres this thing called "women's rights". i dont know if youve ever heard of it. women shouldnt have to go through 9 months of pregnancy just because the man "wants it" and could possibly not even end up taking care of it and having the mother do all that crap. women dont have to bow down to their husbands/boyfriends, it is the 21st century you know.

oh, and that 9 months fly by, 9 months is like a school year. you know when youre at school, you wish it were over. youre anxious for weekends. its like that whole time you wish school was over. well minus the weekends add morning sickness, contractions, a lot of pain, and labor, you got pregnancy. you might have found it wonderful, but that doesnt mean everyone is like you. [/b][/quote]
Though Ms. Tasha just dug herself a hole, here's my thought on that:

The man and the woman should have thought about that whole thing before they went and had sex. That's basically my big problem with abortion; women who use it as a means of birth control. If she didn't "want it" maybe she should have thought about that before she had unprotected sex with her boyfriend. I'm all for womens rights, but I'm also for responsibility and consequences. It was part of her decision to put herself at risk to become pregnant. All I'm saying is she should have to take responsibilty for those actions and, if she's pregnant, face the consequences of them. And in all fairness, Tasha never said they had to bow down to men, and I'm sure she didn't mean to imply that either.

Jila

08-17-2004, 04:25 AM

yeah but even if it is irresponsible, its not fair for a woman. ive said this a million times and i guess ill say it again, a man can easily just get up and leave. women, unfortunately, do not have the luxury of doing that. the only way they can is to have an abortion.

it takes two people to make that mistake, one person shouldnt have to take the consequence.

Mark

08-17-2004, 04:32 AM

Why the hell did this have to be resurrected from 3 days of nothing?

Link04

08-17-2004, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK@Aug 17 2004, 04:25 AM
yeah but even if it is irresponsible, its not fair for a woman. ive said this a million times and i guess ill say it again, a man can easily just get up and leave. women, unfortunately, do not have the luxury of doing that. the only way they can is to have an abortion.

it takes two people to make that mistake, one person shouldnt have to take the consequence.
I completely understand your point, and it's horrible that men even consider walking out on women they have sex with. I know personally, if I (though I wouldn't do this) went and had unprotected sex with my girlfriend tomorrow, and she was pregnant, I'd be a man and stick with her through the ordeal of pregnancy. We may give the child up to adoption, but I'd be there for her. Though that's just me, and it's surely half the man's fault too if the woman gets pregnant, the woman could at anytime stop him from having sex with her. It's ultimately her decision, because 9 times out of 10 a guy won't turn down sex. Now, if the man doesn't respect that decision, it becomes rape, then an abortion is completely justified. Let me go back and say this about sex in the first place: sex is entirely based on the trust of your partner. The trust that they'll have your best interest in mind before, during, and after you have sex. I guess what I'm trying to say is, people should better be able to judge for themselves whether or not the can trust their partner with that. Granted, that's a VERY hard thing for a woman to do, but if there's a doubt in her mind, or if she's thinking with her hormones (like men usually always do anyway), she shouldn't have unprotected sex in the first place. Summarizing: in my opinion, a woman who is control of her situation before pregnancy should go along with the consequences of her actions.

Jila

08-17-2004, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by Mark@Aug 16 2004, 09:32 PM
Why the hell did this have to be resurrected from 3 days of nothing?
Ms. Tasha, who i believe just joined for the sake of this thread.

Will

08-17-2004, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by Ms. Tasha@Aug 15 2004, 08:37 PM
As for AIDS cases, woman who have AIDS/HIV and know it when they get pregnant, the chances of them passing it on to their child are 1%. 25% if the mother is unknowing.
That's the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read on these forums. Just because you know you have AIDS does NOT mean you have less of a chance of passing it on. That's like saying you know you won't get burned even though you're falling into a volcano. It just doesn't work like that.

Jila

08-17-2004, 04:47 AM

Link04: guys are able to have sex whenever they please, not having to worry about getting themselves pregnant (since obviously they cannot) or even getting other girls pregnant (since they can just leave them). not all guys would stick around with the girl they impregnated. she has the choice if she wants to go through a 9 month pregnancy or not. it is not only the woman's fault. she shouldnt have to be the only one going through the consequences if she doesnt want to.

Link04

08-17-2004, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK@Aug 17 2004, 04:47 AM
Link04: guys are able to have sex whenever they please, not having to worry about getting themselves pregnant (since obviously they cannot) or even getting other girls pregnant (since they can just leave them). not all guys would stick around with the girl they impregnated. she has the choice if she wants to go through a 9 month pregnancy or not. it is not only the woman's fault. she shouldnt have to be the only one going through the consequences if she doesnt want to.
I never once said it's all the woman's fault. I stated it's equally the man's and woman's. All I said was, the woman does have the ability to stop things before they get started. The man does too, but most men don't use that option. Going under that generalization about men (behind every one is some truth), more responsibility is required from the woman in that certain situation; since the male may lack some responsibilty.

Jila

08-17-2004, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by Link04+Aug 16 2004, 09:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Aug 16 2004, 09:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--PyRoMaNiaK@Aug 17 2004, 04:47 AM
Link04: guys are able to have sex whenever they please, not having to worry about getting themselves pregnant (since obviously they cannot) or even getting other girls pregnant (since they can just leave them). not all guys would stick around with the girl they impregnated. she has the choice if she wants to go through a 9 month pregnancy or not. it is not only the woman's fault. she shouldnt have to be the only one going through the consequences if she doesnt want to.
I never once said it's all the woman's fault. I stated it's equally the man's and woman's. All I said was, the woman does have the ability to stop things before they get started. The man does too, but most men don't use that option. Going under that generalization about men (behind every one is some truth), more responsibility is required from the woman in that certain situation; since the male may lack some responsibilty. [/b][/quote]
exactly, therefore the woman should have the decision to have an abortion or not. after all, it is her body and she should be able to do what she wants with it. no one should be able to tell her what to do with it, whether its having sex or being pregnant.

Link04

08-17-2004, 05:12 AM

Aha, but if the woman lacks that required responsibilty and has sex anyway, I believe she should deal with the consequences. And that's precisely where our opinions differ. Great debate, Pyromaniak, thanks for discussing it with me. My good friend told me one time there's a point in debate where you just have stop and say "that's just what I believe" and end it. I think I've reached that point. Goodnight all. ^_^

Maëlle

08-17-2004, 05:13 AM

Link04: I know all guys aren't complete morons who are going to leave their girlfriend if she gets pregnant, but the thing is that personnally, if I was to be pregnant now, with the current statistics, I'd be damn scared that my boyfriend would leave me as soon as I get the baby. Hell, in Canada, something like 80% of the young parents separate in the two years following the birth of the child! I know, if I love the boy I should trust him but somehow, you can't stop stats and reality to influence your choice! And, just like Pyromaniak said, pregnancy can be Hell for some woman and I don't think I'd find it great if I had to be pregnant nine months, go through labor, put the baby in adoption and, possibly, suffer from psychologic troubles later on (depression, guilt, etc)

Alacrity

08-17-2004, 05:18 AM

But Maelle, if you chose to have sex with your boyfriend that would be a chance you're taking. If you're not fully ready then just don't. If you were raped then I could understand an abortion, but if you really want to be pro-choice, it could also mean thinking about the consequences before you have sex.

Jila

08-17-2004, 05:19 AM

i totally agree with Maëlle. she brought up points i didnt.

Link04: i still think of fairness. it wouldnt be fair for a woman to deal with the consequences because the guy had an equal part (if not more) of the pregnancy. guys have it easier in every way, not only in pregnancy, but women are shortchanged so much in society as well. it would be cool to keep as much rights as we have. and yeah, nice debate.

Maëlle

08-17-2004, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Alacrity@Aug 17 2004, 01:18 AM
But Maelle, if you chose to have sex with your boyfriend that would be a chance you're taking. If you're not fully ready then just don't. If you were raped then I could understand an abortion, but if you really want to be pro-choice, it could also mean thinking about the consequences before you have sex.
I know that having sex implies having responsabilities! But a bad luck can happen to anybody

Alacrity

08-17-2004, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Maëlle+Aug 17 2004, 01:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maëlle @ Aug 17 2004, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Aug 17 2004, 01:18 AM
But Maelle, if you chose to have sex with your boyfriend that would be a chance you're taking. If you're not fully ready then just don't. If you were raped then I could understand an abortion, but if you really want to be pro-choice, it could also mean thinking about the consequences before you have sex.
I know that having sex implies having responsabilities! But a bad luck can happen to anybody [/b][/quote]
Bad luck included. It's another risk you're willling to take.

Jila

08-17-2004, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Aug 16 2004, 10:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Aug 16 2004, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Maëlle@Aug 17 2004, 01:21 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Aug 17 2004, 01:18 AM
But Maelle, if you chose to have sex with your boyfriend that would be a chance you're taking. If you're not fully ready then just don't. If you were raped then I could understand an abortion, but if you really want to be pro-choice, it could also mean thinking about the consequences before you have sex.
I know that having sex implies having responsabilities! But a bad luck can happen to anybody
Bad luck included. It's another risk you're willling to take. [/b][/quote]
well then its the guys fault as well. the girl shouldnt be the only one taking the responisbility and pain.

ass_kicker

08-17-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by PyRoMaNiaK+Aug 17 2004, 05:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PyRoMaNiaK @ Aug 17 2004, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Alacrity@Aug 16 2004, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by -Maëlle@Aug 17 2004, 01:21 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Aug 17 2004, 01:18 AM
But Maelle, if you chose to have sex with your boyfriend that would be a chance you're taking. If you're not fully ready then just don't. If you were raped then I could understand an abortion, but if you really want to be pro-choice, it could also mean thinking about the consequences before you have sex.
I know that having sex implies having responsabilities! But a bad luck can happen to anybody
Bad luck included. It's another risk you're willling to take.
well then its the guys fault as well. the girl shouldnt be the only one taking the responisbility and pain. [/b][/quote]
i still think the girl should be the one who makes the final decision. if the father wants to keep the baby, thats nice, but if the girl doesnt want it, theres nothing he can do.

Maëlle

08-17-2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Alacrity+Aug 17 2004, 01:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alacrity @ Aug 17 2004, 01:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Maëlle@Aug 17 2004, 01:21 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Aug 17 2004, 01:18 AM
But Maelle, if you chose to have sex with your boyfriend that would be a chance you're taking. If you're not fully ready then just don't. If you were raped then I could understand an abortion, but if you really want to be pro-choice, it could also mean thinking about the consequences before you have sex.
I know that having sex implies having responsabilities! But a bad luck can happen to anybody
Bad luck included. It's another risk you're willling to take. [/b][/quote]
Yeah but you can't control a bad luck so it's not as if you did almost everything to become pregnant. IMO, in a case of pure bad luck, abortion is more justified than in the case of someone having unprotected sex and using it for birth control.