The Anti-Bible

[F-ck Casey]

The Anti-Bible (http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/antibible/)

It's nothing official. It's just a site that my ex found for me just a few minutes ago and thought I'd enjoy. :P

[Ander]

The reason Christians so rabidly deny evolution is that they have so little faith in the value and truth of the Bible that if one tiny detail is shown to be wrong, then the whole rest of it can't be depended on, either. In other words, their faith is so weak that it will fall apart if one tiny brick is knocked out of their feeble structure of faith (I call this the Jenga Principle ).
:lol:

[User Name]

This person has no idea what he's talking about, and that's all I'll say on that.

[Todd]

that looks like an interesting read, I'll have to read it tonight when I have more time. Great link

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 13 2004, 03:11 PM
This person has no idea what he's talking about, and that's all I'll say on that.
Did you even read any of the page? I'm a christian and so far everything this man has said, has made 110% sense to me. The bible is inaccurate as it can possibly be, and if it was really written directly from god, I honestly think he'd know the world was round and not square.

Just because you're so caught up in religion that you believe, whatever the bible says is true, does not mean that he has 'absolutely no clue what he is talking about'. Stop walking around with your head up your crack and try being a little more open-minded of things for a change.

[Blaze]

many things are wrong about this but i'm gonna just hone in on one


As a kid growing up, you probably had the fear of God put into you (I know I did). You were taught in school and at home that unless you believe, you are a sinner and will burn in the fires of Hell (I know I was). Yet we are also taught that God loves us all and if one sheep strays from the flock, God will forgive. That is the biggest contradiction I can find in Western religions.

God will forgive you if you hear, and Repent and become baptized. God created Hell as a place for sinners to be punished for not obeying His word. He loves you but He will punish you if you do wrong, just like you're parents.

[hr]


Also flawed is the concept of Mass. If God is everywhere, can we not worship in our homes, rather than having to go to some place special to worship him?
The Bible says that the new testament christians met every first day of the week(Sunday) to partake of the Lord's Supper, study and build each other up in the faith. While Study in home and prayer is important, so is meeting with the other saved people at a building.

And I'm gong to end by saying that there are many forms of "warped" christan denomonations and even though I wont mention the names of them many many forms of christianity are not scriptually sound. this next paragraph is compleatly accurate

Western Religions pertaining to God have too many flaws in them to be logical. I also fail to see the point in Priests (or Reverends). If God is everywhere (as The Bible claims he is) why must you go to special people to pray? And if God is everywhere why must one go to a Priest (Reverend) to confess ones sins? Shouldn’t something that is everywhere be able to here your sins anywhere you choose to confess them? And should God not be able to tell you how to repent for your sins himself? Why must some preacher tell you to? Is he to lazy to do it himself? If I sinned and wanted to confess I would want to do it on the crapper. Get rid of two types of sh*t at once. But apparently God needs a hearing aid (so to speak).

All you need to to to confess is pray and repent of said sin, the only time you need to apologize in puplic is when you have sinned against another man/woman and you are required to repent and apolize to them too.



I know probably no one agrees with me but thats ok I'm just stating my opinion on the "anti-Bible".

[Derek The Infamous]

Naturally, that page is going to come off a bit one-sided as the man who made the website is a complete athiest. However, a lot of errors and faults with the human body..despite me being a christian, cannot be explained by god. They can however, be explained by sh*tty evolution.

[User Name]

Originally posted by Derek@Jul 13 2004, 01:47 PM
Stop walking around with your head up your crack and try being a little more open-minded of things for a change.
The complete innaccuracy of this quote makes me laugh.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Cameron+Jul 13 2004, 05:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cameron @ Jul 13 2004, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Derek@Jul 13 2004, 01:47 PM
Stop walking around with your head up your crack and try being a little more open-minded of things for a change.
The complete innaccuracy of this quote makes me laugh. [/b][/quote]
Your complete inability to explain why something is wrong instead of just claiming it&#39;s wrong, makes me laugh harder. ^_^

[User Name]

And your judgemental attitude sucks more than a gay brothel.

[Whimsicality]

Yeah, the dude who wrote it treads on shakey ground occasionally, and it&#39;s very one-sided, but I loved this:


The Bible is also VERY inaccurate about the age of the Earth. The Bible says the age of Earth can be determined by adding up the ages of certain people. Doing so makes Earths age come out to about 5,500-6,000 years. Well that’s odd, I could have sworn we have used Carbon-14 to determine the age of things that exceed 100,000 years. Maybe those old cave paintings and such are really God’s brain trust, and helped him create everything (sarcasm). And then again, maybe The Bible is just wrong. It is also very odd that Earth is supposedly 5500 years old because there is a tree in the western United States that is 5500. Maybe that tree IS God, damned Pagans had it right all along.

And this:

Embryos, especially very small ones, actually have tails and gill slits. So do all mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian, and fish embryos. One would almost think they are related somehow. Thank goodness for modern Creation Science, which has taught us how to ignore, deny, or find some rationalization (anything at all will do) to explain away this and all other evidence of evolution. (Yes, Ernst Haeckel did moderate his diagrams of embryos to emphasize the similarities among the youngest ones. But he didn&#39;t make up the tails and gill slits. They&#39;re there. Look closely at some of your favorite fetus photos.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 13 2004, 05:30 PM
And your judgemental attitude sucks more than a gay brothel.
Maybe you need to learn how to think before posting (I could&#39;ve told you this) because you just received a warning for making an anti-homosexual comment on these boards. I wonder if this is your third warning..

[User Name]

Maybe it will keep you on your toes, because I am completely outraged that you had to make a false statement about what I&#39;m like to try to get a point across.

I could nail you for libel, too, so feel lucky that I&#39;m being generous today.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 13 2004, 05:46 PM
Maybe it will keep you on your toes, because I am completely outraged that you had to make a false statement about what I&#39;m like to try to get a point across.

I could nail you for libel, too, so feel lucky that I&#39;m being generous today.
Well, I got very offended that you automatically assumed him to be wrong without giving a solid backing. I really hate it when people say someone&#39;s wrong, or a band sucks etc., and never give a reason why.

It&#39;s like going up to someone&#39;s face and telling them that they suck, and then walking away before giving a valid reason. Sure maybe my statement could be perceived as an attack, and I apologize for it, but I couldn&#39;t understand what was so hard about just giving your reasons why you thought he was wrong. This thread is a debate in many respects, and the purpose of a debate is to give accurate reasoning as to why you think that way and etc.

Yeah I&#39;m being told I attacked you by saying you had your head up your ass, and while that might not be the best thing to say, you have came off as very negative or one-sided at times on these forums. I could bring up times when we told you to stop being so negative or face a warning but, what&#39;s in the past is in the past and there is no sense in throwing fuel on the fire.

Before I end this post, I&#39;m going to ask just what exactly you believe you could "nail me" for? I&#39;m not inviting an arguement but I am very curious as to what you meant in your last sentence, Cameron.

[Whimsicality]

That was a good read. Thank you Casey (and Casey&#39;s ex).

[Mark]

Funny how the subject of religion makes everybody hate one another. I choke on the irony.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 13 2004, 07:28 PM
Funny how the subject of religion makes everybody hate one another. I choke on the irony.
do you need a napkin? water?

[Mark]

Originally posted by Casey+Jul 13 2004, 10:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Jul 13 2004, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 13 2004, 07:28 PM
Funny how the subject of religion makes everybody hate one another. I choke on the irony.
do you need a napkin? water? [/b][/quote]
Please.

[Will]

Originally posted by Mark+Jul 13 2004, 09:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jul 13 2004, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Casey@Jul 13 2004, 10:07 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 13 2004, 07:28 PM
Funny how the subject of religion makes everybody hate one another. I choke on the irony.
do you need a napkin? water?
Please. [/b][/quote]
:lol:

[F-ck Casey]

http://www.gonad.org/upload/images/heirloom_napkin_lg.jpg
http://www.gonad.org/upload/images/waterbottle.jpg

[Whimsicality]

Originally posted by Casey@Jul 13 2004, 10:26 PM
http://www.gonad.org/upload/images/heirloom_napkin_lg.jpg
http://www.gonad.org/upload/images/waterbottle.jpg
LMAO

[Blaze]

Originally posted by twicethetrouble@Jul 13 2004, 05:32 PM
Yeah, the dude who wrote it treads on shakey ground occasionally, and it&#39;s very one-sided, but I loved this:


The Bible is also VERY inaccurate about the age of the Earth. The Bible says the age of Earth can be determined by adding up the ages of certain people. Doing so makes Earths age come out to about 5,500-6,000 years. Well that’s odd, I could have sworn we have used Carbon-14 to determine the age of things that exceed 100,000 years. Maybe those old cave paintings and such are really God’s brain trust, and helped him create everything (sarcasm). And then again, maybe The Bible is just wrong. It is also very odd that Earth is supposedly 5500 years old because there is a tree in the western United States that is 5500. Maybe that tree IS God, damned Pagans had it right all along.


the carbon dating system has been known to be inacurate many times, like once i&#39;m pretty sure i heard about a live slug that had been dead for 5 minutes was carbon dated at 300 years old or somthing like that. :mellow:


and then again i could be compleatley wrong about that :mellow:

[Eilonwy]

That was very interesting. I agree with a lot of what he said, even though I&#39;m a Christian. I wish I could show this to my mom&#39;s pastor and see what he&#39;d say. He&#39;d probably have a heart attack trying to prove everything wrong. He&#39;s one of those Christians the guy described as having weak faith, I&#39;m sure.

[Todd]

The bible contradicts itself. In one park it says one thing and in another it tells you the complete opposite. Now I haven&#39;t read the bible so I could be wrong on this, but aren&#39;t I correct in saying that the bible has told some Christians to kill any non-Christians, remember the Crusades back in the mideval times? And supposidley, the bible has also told others to kill someone because they were gay. But, you&#39;ll also find in the 10 commandments that it&#39;s a sin to kill. The bible is full of double-standards. If someone was to read through the bible and do everything it told them to and follow all of the bible&#39;s laws, they would go insane because in one part, the bible will tell them to do something and a few pages later, you&#39;re going to burn in hell for doing it.

[emmmers]

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 13 2004, 09:07 PM
The bible contradicts itself. In one park it says one thing and in another it tells you the complete opposite. Now I haven&#39;t read the bible so I could be wrong on this, but aren&#39;t I correct in saying that the bible has told some Christians to kill any non-Christians, remember the Crusades back in the mideval times? And supposidley, the bible has also told others to kill someone because they were gay. But, you&#39;ll also find in the 10 commandments that it&#39;s a sin to kill. The bible is full of double-standards. If someone was to read through the bible and do everything it told them to and follow all of the bible&#39;s laws, they would go insane because in one part, the bible will tell them to do something and a few pages later, you&#39;re going to burn in hell for doing it.
Good points. The bible still seems like a story that J.K. Rowling&#39;s oldest ancestors made up.

And that napkin looked like an underwear to me before it finished loading. :lol:

[Mechanical Christ]

THANK YOU&#33; (w00t)

[Dean]

I go to a Catholic school, so for two hours every week I have to listen to all this preachy shite about how "Jesus loves us all" (But he and his daddy are homophobes&#33;) and "He&#39;ll always be there for us, even if we turn our backs on him".
I really hate it how the really devout christians can&#39;t back their beliefs up when confronted and instead they hand you leaflets about how Jesus loves us and such (Yes, I know I&#39;ve already complained about that). LIKE THAT&#39;S MEANT TO CONVERT ME&#33;&#33;&#33;
Do they have anything better to do with their lives?


And thanks to Casey and ex for the link. You really made my day.

[TheVoodoo]

This guy obviously has studied religion by some of his statements about the bible and its so called hippocracies(however you spell it) have no truth to them. Now I would love to give you all examples in scripture and argue my point but I have to go to work. If anyone has any comments to make to me they can pm me and I&#39;ll reply.



QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 13 2004, 09:07 PM)
The bible contradicts itself. In one park it says one thing and in another it tells you the complete opposite. Now I haven&#39;t read the bible so I could be wrong on this, but aren&#39;t I correct in saying that the bible has told some Christians to kill any non-Christians, remember the Crusades back in the mideval times? And supposidley, the bible has also told others to kill someone because they were gay. But, you&#39;ll also find in the 10 commandments that it&#39;s a sin to kill. The bible is full of double-standards. If someone was to read through the bible and do everything it told them to and follow all of the bible&#39;s laws, they would go insane because in one part, the bible will tell them to do something and a few pages later, you&#39;re going to burn in hell for doing it.

The Bible does not tell christians to kill other people and the crusdaes happened hundreds of years after the Bible was completed. Before you go saying the Bible is full of double standards at least state one double standard that is actually in the Bible.

[Dr. Satan]

It just amazes me how Satanic people beleive that god does not exist :lol: . How cam Satan exist and God not? Everyone knows that Satan is a fallen angel...without God...there are no angels....

[Mark]

Originally posted by Dr. Satan@Jul 14 2004, 04:35 PM
It just amazes me how Satanic people beleive that god does not exist :lol: . How cam Satan exist and God not? Everyone knows that Satan is a fallen angel...without God...there are no angels....
That guy isn&#39;t satanic, he&#39;s an atheist. There&#39;s a big difference.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Dr. Satan@Jul 14 2004, 02:05 PM
It just amazes me how Satanic people beleive that god does not exist :lol: . How cam Satan exist and God not? Everyone knows that Satan is a fallen angel...without God...there are no angels....
are you a Satanist?

EDIT: Not the Self-God one, the one where you worship Satan.

[Ander]

Satanists believe that you&#39;re your own god or something like that, right?

[Mark]

Originally posted by Casey+Jul 14 2004, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Jul 14 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Dr. Satan@Jul 14 2004, 02:05 PM
It just amazes me how Satanic people beleive that god does not exist :lol: . How cam Satan exist and God not? Everyone knows that Satan is a fallen angel...without God...there are no angels....
are you a Satanist? [/b][/quote]
If he isn&#39;t, I&#39;ll handle out "irony paddles" and we&#39;ll beat some sense into him.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by superxero88@Jul 14 2004, 02:13 PM
Satanists believe that you&#39;re your own god or something like that, right?
Yeah.

I don&#39;t know what to call the &#39;Devil Worshipers&#39;. That word sounds so immature.

[Dean]

Originally posted by superxero88@Jul 14 2004, 07:13 PM
Satanists believe that you&#39;re your own god or something like that, right?
They do believe in self-indulgence and "worshipping yourself" so in a sense, yes. That&#39;s what most of Anton Lavey&#39;s work is about as far as I know.

[BroknSolace]

Satanists do believe in working only for themselves, and stepping over anyone to get what they want. however, i have had some satanist friends, and im sure that they believe in God, because they believed in satan. im not sure, maybe not all satanists believe in god, but my friends did.

[F-ck Casey]

Satanist are their own god. That would mean, you know, they don&#39;t believe in God or Satan. :wth:

[BroknSolace]

my brother was a satanist, he didnt believe he was his own god..i wasnt saying every satanist believed in god, only that a few i knew did, and i wasnt sure if it was actually part of the traditional satanist religion

[Will]

Your brother obviously wasn&#39;t a Satanist, then.

[BroknSolace]

hahah..you can take that up with him ^_^

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by BroknSolace@Jul 14 2004, 05:22 PM
my brother was a satanist, he didnt believe he was his own god..i wasnt saying every satanist believed in god, only that a few i knew did, and i wasnt sure if it was actually part of the traditional satanist religion
you mean he was the Devil Worshipper kind.

[BroknSolace]

yea, thats what i meant..thanks for clearing that up.

[F-ck Casey]

Yeah, the names are confusing. When people say Satanist, they automatically assume &#39;Devil Worshipper&#39;, when infact the Satanist religion is entirely different & opposite.

[BroknSolace]

thats so random..but i know exactly what you mean. plus, it seems almost a fad to be satanic, just to be different for some people. thats what was going on with my other friends, my brother simply turned to wicca

[Link04]

That whole thing&#39;s just one giant opinion trying to be passed off as a fact. He has a few scientific facts in that giant rant, but it&#39;s nothing that undermines my faith, which seems to be the writers intent.

Of course the Bible isn&#39;t perfect. It was written by man. If it had been written by God, there would be no questions, no grey area, no if&#39;s, and&#39;s, or but&#39;s. But it wasn&#39;t, so all we&#39;re left with is speculation and opinion. And his idea of what is and what&#39;s not is no more correct than yours or mine.


Edit: What an imbecile:

"
“I am the Alpha and the Omega. I am the beginning and the end. I am the first and the last; beside me there is no other God”
He is the first? Let us define “first”, shall we? Here it is:
“[The one] Coming before all others in order or location”
So God came before all others? Where did he come from? Did someone make him? If so, who? Then would he not be the first?
And is he also the last?
“[The one] Being, leaving, or placed after all others.”
So God will be the last to leave? Where will he go? Will he die? I thought he was eternal? What will make him leave? Is he not omnipotent as The Bible claims? If so, why does he leave?"


According to what I believe, God didn&#39;t come from anything. He was ALWAYS there. He wasn&#39;t created. And being the last, as in, he&#39;s eternal. He&#39;s beyond time; when everything else has perished He will still exist. The writer is just putting words into the Bible&#39;s mouth (if you&#39;ll allow the expression). He&#39;s implying things that aren&#39;t even there. He quoted Webster&#39;s meaning of "first" and "last". Guess who that&#39;s written by? Errant humans.

[Will]

His is science.

Therefore, he wins.

[Ander]

Mark is right. Religion only converts people into assholes.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by superxero88@Jul 14 2004, 06:00 PM
Mark is right. Religion only converts people into assholes.
are you saying I&#39;m an #######?

I will murder you dead.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 14 2004, 10:55 PM
His is science.

Therefore, he wins.
And they call Christians ignorant....

[Will]

Originally posted by Link04+Jul 14 2004, 06:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Jul 14 2004, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 14 2004, 10:55 PM
His is science.

Therefore, he wins.
And they call Christians ignorant.... [/b][/quote]
Don&#39;t call me ignorant. You&#39;re the one who believes in a book that contradicts itself more than the news.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 14 2004, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 14 2004, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Link04@Jul 14 2004, 06:07 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 14 2004, 10:55 PM
His is science.

Therefore, he wins.
And they call Christians ignorant....
Don&#39;t call me ignorant. You&#39;re the one who believes in a book that contradicts itself more than the news. [/b][/quote]
Heh, did I strike a nerve? I believe in God, not just a book. And contrary to what you think, faith in God is logical. I&#39;ve told you how before.

[Will]

Originally posted by Link04+Jul 14 2004, 06:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Jul 14 2004, 06:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 14 2004, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by -Link04@Jul 14 2004, 06:07 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 14 2004, 10:55 PM
His is science.

Therefore, he wins.
And they call Christians ignorant....
Don&#39;t call me ignorant. You&#39;re the one who believes in a book that contradicts itself more than the news.
Heh, did I strike a nerve? I believe in God, not just a book. And contrary to what you think, faith in God is logical. I&#39;ve told you how before. [/b][/quote]
Just because you think it&#39;s logical doesn&#39;t mean that it is.

Like I said before, religion was made up by man. It was made up, just like other stories. None of it is true in the slightest.

[Link04]

You don&#39;t know that as a fact. Were you there to see it made up? Can you tell me who made it up, and when? No, it&#39;s only what you think is true. Belief in God was divinely inspired. Straight down from God himself, not thought up in some persons head.

[Will]

Originally posted by Link04@Jul 14 2004, 06:29 PM
You don&#39;t know that as a fact. Were you there to see it made up? Can you tell me who made it up, and when? No, it&#39;s only what you think is true. Belief in God was divinely inspired. Straight down from God himself, not thought up in some persons head.
Yeah, okay. Is that why the Greeks and Romans had their own gods and goddesses? Why did all this so-called belief in "God" wait so long to come around? Why would "God" let these people, the Greeks and Romans, believe in these other gods and goddesses if, beside him, there are no other gods? Oh, I know why. Because he doesn&#39;t exist, and he was "invented" just like the Greek and Roman gods and goddesses to explain the things around the world. It&#39;s as simple as that. I feel sorry for you for not being able to see that.

[Kæton]

Arguing about God in this thread ain&#39;t gonna&#39; work.

Why? Look at the topic title. This topic was made to look at the things wrong in the bible, not to praise him. The LPA isn&#39;t against religions, but LOGIC, man, don&#39;t step into a thread that isn&#39;t praising "God" thinkin&#39; you&#39;re gonna change views.

Yeah, we get it, you&#39;re a proud Christian, Link04, and yeah, we all have different views, but it&#39;s things like what you do here that give people like us, the athiests, satanist and what not a bad view on religion most of the time. We try to express something away from religion, and *WHAM*... Out comes the Christian firing squad knocking us down.

Yeah, some of us speak out against religion, and sometimes people force it on others, but in my experience, I&#39;ve not seen it as much as Christians trying to shove the "You&#39;re wrong, and I&#39;m right" story down my throat as much as others do.

We try to speak a seperate thing, and we&#39;re still gunned down. So not to make you feel odd, but lighten up, if you don&#39;t like it, just leave it be and let us have our own piece of mind instead of just trying to shut us or even the man who wrote the "Anti-Bible" article, himself, out.

edit: typo(s)

[F-ck Casey]

anyone else notice my threads always generate this kind of debate? :shifty:

[Kæton]

Yeah, I agree.

I saw another religion conflict/debate arising after a few posts in this thread :lol:.

[Will]

Originally posted by Casey@Jul 14 2004, 06:47 PM
anyone else notice my threads always generate this kind of debate? :shifty:
It&#39;s because we always get certain people who decide they need to preach that we&#39;re wrong.

[BroknSolace]

Debates make things more interesting, and more often than not end in someone being warned or banned. Meh, all in the name of debate&#33;

[Kæton]

Originally posted by BroknSolace@Jul 14 2004, 01:51 PM
Debates make things more interesting, and more often than not end in someone being warned or banned. Meh, all in the name of debate&#33;
A lot of the times, though, people begin to take the debate way too serious.

If anyone remembers, we had to ban one member because he just went completely insane on people for not believing what he did... :chemist:.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by Keaton+Jul 14 2004, 06:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Keaton @ Jul 14 2004, 06:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--BroknSolace@Jul 14 2004, 01:51 PM
Debates make things more interesting, and more often than not end in someone being warned or banned. Meh, all in the name of debate&#33;
A lot of the times, though, people begin to take the debate way too serious.

If anyone remembers, we had to ban one member because he just went completely insane on people for not believing what he did... :chemist:. [/b][/quote]
"don&#39;t insult the Catholics" dude?

[Will]

Originally posted by BroknSolace@Jul 14 2004, 06:51 PM
Debates make things more interesting, and more often than not end in someone being warned or banned. Meh, all in the name of debate&#33;
The only time we&#39;ve ever banned someone was because they completely flipped out on EVERYONE because we didn&#39;t believe what he did, and he started flaming everyone and it was so ridiculous and out of hand that we had to ban the person.

Other than that, no one has ever been warned or banned.

[BroknSolace]

ehh my mistake. I just meant that it tends to get really heated

[Link04]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 14 2004, 11:32 PM
[QUOTE=Link04,Jul 14 2004, 06:29 PM] I feel sorry for you
Isn&#39;t that ironic?

Bah, oh well. Keaton, I&#39;m just defending what I believe/having a nice debate, excuse me if that&#39;s not how you wanted this thread to turn out. I&#39;m not trying to convert anyone, and this whole thing I&#39;m talking about is MY belief, not yours, and definitely not Will&#39;s. But his belief is no more factual than mine, and when someone makes it out to be a fact, I can&#39;t help but post a rebuttle. I&#39;m sorry, I&#39;ll shut up.

[Mark]

You know, there is absolutely no point in debating whether god is real or not because either parties will continue defending their beliefs no matter what and it will never end. It&#39;s very pointless and only leads to bad things, in my opinion.

[Link04]

I guess you&#39;re right Mark, from now on I&#39;ll stay out of religious threads...or keep away from a debate in them, at least. I&#39;m the one who started it in this thread. And I&#39;m sorry Will, I should have never called you ignorant, but the oppurtunity was too good to pass up :P ;)

[Will]

Originally posted by Link04@Jul 14 2004, 08:33 PM
And I&#39;m sorry Will, I should have never called you ignorant, but the oppurtunity was too good to pass up :P ;)
:rolleyes:

[Kæton]

Final words from me, though.

Link04, you can believe in whatever you want. What I meant by that is that sometimes we as who we are want to express ourselves in which we don&#39;t believe what you do, and there&#39;s nothing wrong with debate, but sometimes, like anyone, we&#39;d like to have our own word and not have people say "that&#39;s stupid" or "that&#39;s wrong" and make us feel so degraded the way you feel when we say "God&#39;s not real," or whatever it may be.

I have no problem with you believing what you do, hell, I hear the things you say every day of my life and I&#39;m surrounded by religious people, but sometimes as much as the freedom you feel you should be able to express your religious belief, you need to understand us athiest and satanist need the same amounts of freedom.

It&#39;s okay to debate, but not in every thread that goes against what you believe in. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and not bother with it even if it gets onto your last nerves.

I&#39;m saying this because this thread was specifically made to show off something that stated information about the bible&#39;s possible flaws, and though that can call for debate, it&#39;s really not needed, just point out your observations and let it be that unless it is absolutely necessary to defend yourself, in which this case, I believe Will just said he thought science wins as you stated what you thought.

I think from now on, when discussing religion, let&#39;s not step boundries and not start anything. We can compromise much easier without it getting dirty.

[Mechanical Christ]

Originally posted by earache_my_eye@Jul 14 2004, 04:23 PM
I go to a Catholic school, so for two hours every week I have to listen to all this preachy shite about how "Jesus loves us all" (But he and his daddy are homophobes&#33;) and "He&#39;ll always be there for us, even if we turn our backs on him".
I really hate it how the really devout christians can&#39;t back their beliefs up when confronted and instead they hand you leaflets about how Jesus loves us and such (Yes, I know I&#39;ve already complained about that). LIKE THAT&#39;S MEANT TO CONVERT ME&#33;&#33;&#33;
Do they have anything better to do with their lives?


And thanks to Casey and ex for the link. You really made my day.

I SO DAMN AGREE MAN.

I presented this to total of 4 Christians so far, and the reaction is all the same. (all got pissed and vehemently tried to defend their religion)



I&#39;d like to see my pastor&#39;s reaction too, when i show him this.

And Casey, thank you SO much. i go to a Chrisitian school so every week i sit cramped in a small space for two hours listening to ####, and this guy said once when preaching that "brokenness is good because it allows you to come to god." Who wants to be depressed all the time anyway?

My teacher told us bout this girl, when she was scolding her,her eyes had a glazed look, which means she wasn&#39;t listening, and that&#39;s what happens to me when i talk to god. my parents are christian and i am forced to listen to a lot of crap on sunday. I really tried to believe, i have gone to church since i was a little kid but i just cannot see why, whenever i am in the lowest pits and deepest ####, I never get consoled. I never get ANY comfort, I&#39;ve never seen God in my dreams, in ANYWHERE for that matter. He doesn&#39;t listen. And gays and lesbians are STILL HUMAN, So Why is the Creator SUCH a HOMOPHOBE, and if he IS a homophobe, why did he even create them in the first place?





[edit] :Will, after seeing your posts I&#39;d just like to say I appreciate your presence in this topic :chemist:

Especially on page 4 :chemist:

[Will]

The reason why I use the same argument in every debate about this is because it, in my eyes, is the argument that holds the most truth. I mean, if you really stop to think about it, it makes the most sense.

Since there are no other gods beside God, none lesser and none higher, why did he let the Greeks and Romans believe in the gods and goddesses that they believed in? Surely God isn&#39;t a hypocrit. He is perfect, and no one who is perfect has a flaw such as that of being hypocritical.

The Greeks and the Romans created their gods and goddesses to explain things that happened in the world around them because they needed explanations for things they could not otherwise explain. They all knew they were not real, but they continued to worship them because that is why they created them. They created them to explain, and to worship because of what their made-up gods and goddesses supposedly did.

The same holds true with Christians and their God. He was created to explain things that happened. However, instead of using multiple gods and goddesses like the Greeks and Romans, they used one divine creator of everything, either to make things easier, or because they were not clever enough to come up with the ideas that the Greeks and Romans did.

Has anyone else even bothered to realize that Christianity is just like Greek and Roman mythology? It is. Anyone who does not see that obviously needs to go back to school. Now, I have no idea why Christianity is more powerful than Greek and Roman mythology, and I do not think that anyone ever will know why. But the fact remains: Christianity is just like mythology in the sense that it is all made up and it is all myths.

I used to go to church, I did. But none of it ever made any sense to me, even as a child. In Sunday school, when we were taught that God created the entire world in six days and rested on the seventh, I laughed. I was nine or so, and my teacher asked me why I laughed. I told her it was because no one could create something like the world in six days. Needless to say, she was mad at me for challenging the Bible, but I have been doing it ever since.

Another argument I bring up that was also brought up on that Anti-Bible site: Why does the Bible contradict itself so many times? You cannot tell me that it is only what I believe that leads me to know that the Bible contradicts itself. As pointed out on that site, the Bible contradicts itself in Genesis by first saying that everything came from water, but then saying that everything came from dry ground. Which is it? Apparently, even the Bible does not know. Surely someone as perfect as the Lord would not have made that mistake.

The Bible also contradicts itself when it says that Jesus loves everyone. If that is the case, then why does the Church hate homosexual people? Does Jesus love everyone but homosexual people? No, that would not make any sense, seeing as how he loves everyone. But such is the case, because being homosexual is against the Bible and it is wrong. Oops.

Another thing pointed out on that site is how Paul tells us to ignore Jewish fables in Titus 1:14. Like the author said, wouldn&#39;t that mean that Paul is telling us to ignore most of the Old Testament, if not all of Genesis? Genesis tells how God created the Earth, and he wants us to ignore that? Surely someone as perfect as God could not let such a mistake happen, but He did. Yet another point where the Bible contradicts itself.

This brings me back to the mythology: If there are no other gods beside God himself, why would he let the Greeks and Romans believe in their gods and goddesses? Does that not make Him a hypocrit? Also, the Romans and the Greeks were in a completely different area from the origins of Christianity. The Middle East, while not that far from Greece, is where Christianity got its start. So, does that mean that God favors the Middle East over Southern Europe? Tsk, tsk. I thought He loved everyone?

The Bible was not written by God, nor was it written by anyone who "saw" God or was "inspired by" God. It was written by people who needed explanations for things around them, just like Greek and Roman mythology. I could go on like the person in that article, but my strongest argument is the Greek/Roman mythology argument. It is the exact same principal, yet religious folk seem to overlook that.

[Mechanical Christ]

I take what i said back. :chemist:

































You are simply....... amazing. :chemist: :lol:

[Link04]

Originally posted by Keaton@Jul 15 2004, 03:26 AM
I think from now on, when discussing religion, let&#39;s not step boundries and not start anything. We can compromise much easier without it getting dirty.
*sigh* Gotcha.

No rebuttle for you this time, Will. Just post what you think is correct.

[adelleda]

Originally posted by Keaton@Jul 14 2004, 07:37 PM
We try to express something away from religion, and *WHAM*... Out comes the Christian firing squad knocking us down.
How ridiciously true is that? Notice how most holidays are based around the Christian faith. We don&#39;t get days off for Hanunka (sp?) or Ramadam (sp?) but two weeks are dedicated to the birth of Jesus (and New Years Eve/Day). I&#39;m just pointing out something, I&#39;m probably wrong in a way, but there&#39;s my 2 cents :whistle:

[Dedicated]

Okay, this isn&#39;t about the Anti-Bible really but I want to know something...


How come the birth of Jesus is celebrated in the winter when everything that is described to have happened is what happened in the summer? :huh:

I don&#39;t get it. :mellow:


Even the Vicar at a church I used to go to said how they got it wrong. But seriously, if Jesus was some great person who could save the world, etc. Then how come no one even knew when he was born? Pretty dumb, huh? :mellow:

[Blaze]

Originally posted by Dedicated@Jul 15 2004, 01:29 PM
Okay, this isn&#39;t about the Anti-Bible really but I want to know something...


How come the birth of Jesus is celebrated in the winter when everything that is described to have happened is what happened in the summer? :huh:

I don&#39;t get it. :mellow:


Even the Vicar at a church I used to go to said how they got it wrong. But seriously, if Jesus was some great person who could save the world, etc. Then how come no one even knew when he was born? Pretty dumb, huh? :mellow:
well one thing is the the place were they were(palistine) had a differnt climate in the area of bethleham.


everything after this is my opinion and stuff.


I dont celabrate Jesus&#39; birth. I celebrate his death and sacrifice for our sins. his birth is just his entrence into this world.


Another thing about the Anti-Bible, he says that God loves all but sentences them to Hell and is therfore a hypocrite. God is like you&#39;re parents, He&#39;ll give you rules and then if you disobey them He&#39;ll punish you. He wants ALL people to go to heavean but He gives us free choice to do His will or not.

hope that makes sense.

Agian not trying to convert anybody just adding my 20 cents hehhe :whistle:

[Atomic125]

I was told about this site and referred to this topic by a friend. Although i&#39;m posting here first, this doesn&#39;t mean that this is the only reason I&#39;m here and i&#39;m not gonna post anywhere else. I&#39;m also gonna treat everyone the same outside this topic, that being said, let&#39;s get on with the show

Okay, this isn&#39;t about the Anti-Bible really but I want to know something...


How come the birth of Jesus is celebrated in the winter when everything that is described to have happened is what happened in the summer?

I don&#39;t get it.


Even the Vicar at a church I used to go to said how they got it wrong. But seriously, if Jesus was some great person who could save the world, etc. Then how come no one even knew when he was born? Pretty dumb, huh?

Simple answer, who were the only two people who knew that Jesus was special when he was born? His parents. Anyone ever ask about his birthdate? No. Just think about it, you&#39;ve just met the king of eternity, at that moment, would you really care how old he is? Also, God wants us to celebrate his son&#39;s death, not his birth. And we know exactly when he died, on the pentecost (jewish holiday). And whether you believe Jesus is the Christ or not, historical documents prove that Jesus lived, although they don&#39;t say anything about the things he did.



How ridiciously true is that? Notice how most holidays are based around the Christian faith. We don&#39;t get days off for Hanunka (sp?) or Ramadam (sp?) but two weeks are dedicated to the birth of Jesus (and New Years Eve/Day). I&#39;m just pointing out something, I&#39;m probably wrong in a way, but there&#39;s my 2 cents

I&#39;m a Christian (in case you haven&#39;t already figured that out, lol) and if you&#39;re a Christian of my faith, you know that it&#39;s not his birthday. Jesus was born in the time during taxes, which is in summer. Christmas was started by Catholics, who are very different to Christians. Also, the Christians that do celebrate Christmas as Jesus&#39; birthday, are under a different faith than myself, just going by the same name.

Referring to Will&#39;s comments (too long to quote, lol) God is different from Greek Mythology because God gave us signs that he existed. Of course, this is only valid if you believe the bible, which can be proven, but God performed miracles, himself and through other people. As for your gay people contradiction, the bible says they are condemned to hell, and if it stopped their, you&#39;d have a perfectly valid argument and I&#39;d be an atheist, but God wants all to go to Heaven. However, he wants us to follow him with free wills, so those that choose not to follow him, go to hell. He would only just love for us to follow him, but some choose not to, and God is grieved, but he doesn&#39;t control us for he&#39;s given us free wills. He&#39;s sad, but has chosen to give us free wills, and is going to stick by that, hoping that someone would lead the lost soul back to him. And as for the last paragraph, it&#39;ll take a long discussion to reach a conclusion, but I&#39;m all for it.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 14 2004, 10:59 PM
You know, there is absolutely no point in debating whether god is real or not because either parties will continue defending their beliefs no matter what and it will never end. It&#39;s very pointless and only leads to bad things, in my opinion.
And I quote myself again.

DOES NOBODY NOTICE THAT THIS WILL NEVER END? NO SIDE WINS. You&#39;re going to just keep going until the sun blows up or one of you become tired of arguing in circles and quit.

[Ander]

Originally posted by Mark+Jul 15 2004, 01:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jul 15 2004, 01:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 14 2004, 10:59 PM
You know, there is absolutely no point in debating whether god is real or not because either parties will continue defending their beliefs no matter what and it will never end. It&#39;s very pointless and only leads to bad things, in my opinion.
And I quote myself again.

DOES NOBODY NOTICE THAT THIS WILL NEVER END? NO SIDE WINS. You&#39;re going to just keep going until the sun blows up or one of you become tired of arguing in circles and quit. [/b][/quote]
We could argue in circles about wether or not we will argue in circles on the subject of religion.

[Mark]

Originally posted by superxero88+Jul 15 2004, 07:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (superxero88 @ Jul 15 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jul 15 2004, 01:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 14 2004, 10:59 PM
You know, there is absolutely no point in debating whether god is real or not because either parties will continue defending their beliefs no matter what and it will never end. It&#39;s very pointless and only leads to bad things, in my opinion.
And I quote myself again.

DOES NOBODY NOTICE THAT THIS WILL NEVER END? NO SIDE WINS. You&#39;re going to just keep going until the sun blows up or one of you become tired of arguing in circles and quit.
We could argue in circles about wether or not we will argue in circles on the subject of religion. [/b][/quote]
Sounds like a plan. :lol:

[Missy]

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 15 2004, 02:46 PM
And I quote myself again.

DOES NOBODY NOTICE THAT THIS WILL NEVER END? NO SIDE WINS. You&#39;re going to just keep going until the sun blows up or one of you become tired of arguing in circles and quit.
:lol: You sound so angry, but I have to agree. Absolutely an endless argument.

[Will]

Originally posted by Mark+Jul 15 2004, 04:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jul 15 2004, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 14 2004, 10:59 PM
You know, there is absolutely no point in debating whether god is real or not because either parties will continue defending their beliefs no matter what and it will never end. It&#39;s very pointless and only leads to bad things, in my opinion.
And I quote myself again.

DOES NOBODY NOTICE THAT THIS WILL NEVER END? NO SIDE WINS. You&#39;re going to just keep going until the sun blows up or one of you become tired of arguing in circles and quit. [/b][/quote]
Who cares? We&#39;re debating. Pardon us for having a discussion. :rolleyes:

[Mark]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 15 2004, 09:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 15 2004, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jul 15 2004, 04:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 14 2004, 10:59 PM
You know, there is absolutely no point in debating whether god is real or not because either parties will continue defending their beliefs no matter what and it will never end. It&#39;s very pointless and only leads to bad things, in my opinion.
And I quote myself again.

DOES NOBODY NOTICE THAT THIS WILL NEVER END? NO SIDE WINS. You&#39;re going to just keep going until the sun blows up or one of you become tired of arguing in circles and quit.
Who cares? We&#39;re debating. Pardon us for having a discussion. :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
Alright, but when the debate finishes, tell me. I want to see who wins&#33;And who has the most stamina to say "I&#39;m right and you&#39;re wrong". :rolleyes: I&#39;m an atheist and I don&#39;t believe in god, but come on&#33; Pick your battles&#33;

[Will]

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 15 2004, 06:44 PM
Alright, but when the debate finishes, tell me. I want to see who wins&#33;And who has the most stamina to say "I&#39;m right and you&#39;re wrong". :rolleyes:
Debates aren&#39;t about whether someone wins or loses. I don&#39;t see what your problem with us debating is. Who cares if it doesn&#39;t end? We&#39;re debating. Big deal.

[Mark]

Oi. The pointlessness.

You&#39;ve got the ever-so stubborn atheists who don&#39;t believe in god against the ever-so stubborn christian/catholics who will defend their religion no matter what.

This thread in the next few posts;
"God doesn&#39;t exist and the bible is contradictory"
"Yes he does and it isn&#39;t&#33;"
"No he doesn&#39;t and it is&#33;"
"Yes&#33;"
"Nuh-uh&#33;"
"The bible is false&#33;"
"It&#39;s not false&#33;"
"Yes it is&#33;"
"Nuh-uh&#33;"
"Yes it is&#33;"

Go on, continue with it, but the sheer pointlessness consumes me. And feel free to through your rolleyes smilies and subliminal messaging at me in other threads to your delight. I will no longer participate in either of these childish arguments, nor this thread. I warned you, oh well.

[Will]

Originally posted by Mark@Jul 15 2004, 06:54 PM
And feel free to through your rolleyes smilies and subliminal messaging at me in other threads to your delight.
Please tell me what other threads I&#39;m "subliminally" attacking you in. I&#39;d appreciate it.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Dedicated@Jul 15 2004, 06:29 PM

How come the birth of Jesus is celebrated in the winter when everything that is described to have happened is what happened in the summer? :huh:

I don&#39;t get it. :mellow:
From what I understand, the Romans were occupying Jerusalem at the time. They would have killed the Jews for celebrating the birth of Jesus. So instead, they secretly celebrated it coinciding with the Roman Solstice Festival, or something to that affect, so they weren&#39;t persecuted.

Just what I heard.

[Pinkin Lark]

wow thats a really good link, read the whole thing. the author of the site made some good points.

[Alacrity]

So what? You&#39;re Atheist. Big deal. I&#39;m Christian. I don&#39;t try to talk you in to Christianity, so don&#39;t force science down my throat and tell me that my God is not real. That&#39;s like me telling you that your beliefs are wrong and my God is the only one there. You don&#39;t even have a God or anything to believe in, how can you tell me my faith is wrong? To a point, it&#39;s downright insulting.

[Will]

Yeah, well, it&#39;s also insulting to us when you Christians tell us that we&#39;re wrong. You aren&#39;t someone who doesn&#39;t have a God, so how can you say that we&#39;re wrong?

[Alacrity]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 15 2004, 09:59 PM
Yeah, well, it&#39;s also insulting to us when you Christians tell us that we&#39;re wrong. You aren&#39;t someone who doesn&#39;t have a God, so how can you say that we&#39;re wrong?
What&#39;s so wrong with believing there is something greater than you out there? Something infinate? Stop taking everything so concretely and believe, that&#39;s what faith is about.

[Will]

No one said anything about it being wrong. Even the person who wrote that article never said it was wrong. We just refuse to believe in it.

Oh, you also said you&#39;re not trying to force Christianity down my throat. So, what exactly is commanding me to stop taking everything so concretely and believe doing? Sounds like forcing to me.

[Alacrity]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 15 2004, 10:05 PM
No one said anything about it being wrong. Even the person who wrote that article never said it was wrong. We just refuse to believe in it.

Oh, you also said you&#39;re not trying to force Christianity down my throat. So, what exactly is commanding me to stop taking everything so concretely and believe doing? Sounds like forcing to me.
I never forced Christianity. I might&#39;ve suggested a frame of mind, but never anything else other than that. And why do you refuse to believe it? Because you think it&#39;s wrong

[Will]

Originally posted by Alacrity@Jul 15 2004, 09:09 PM
And why do you refuse to believe it? Because you think it&#39;s wrong
No, I don&#39;t believe in it because it makes no sense. Don&#39;t assume things about me that you have no clue about. If I said I didn&#39;t believe in it because it was "wrong," then I would say that. I don&#39;t believe in it because of its many innaccuracies, contradictions and hypocrisies.

So, again, don&#39;t put words in my mouth, because you have no idea what you&#39;re talking about when you assume things about me.

[Link04]

Mark, you were right. I&#39;m a lot less stessed watching the show than picking up a sword and debating. ^_^ :lol:

[Alacrity]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 15 2004, 10:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 15 2004, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 15 2004, 09:09 PM
And why do you refuse to believe it? Because you think it&#39;s wrong
No, I don&#39;t believe in it because it makes no sense. Don&#39;t assume things about me that you have no clue about. If I said I didn&#39;t believe in it because it was "wrong," then I would say that. I don&#39;t believe in it because of its many innaccuracies, contradictions and hypocrisies.

So, again, don&#39;t put words in my mouth, because you have no idea what you&#39;re talking about when you assume things about me. [/b][/quote]
I never assumed anything about you, I don&#39;t try to. It only makes logical sense to think that if someone doesn&#39;t believe in something they might find a wrong in the other person&#39;s belief.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 16 2004, 02:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 16 2004, 02:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 15 2004, 09:09 PM
And why do you refuse to believe it? Because you think it&#39;s wrong
No, I don&#39;t believe in it because it makes no sense. Don&#39;t assume things about me that you have no clue about. If I said I didn&#39;t believe in it because it was "wrong," then I would say that. I don&#39;t believe in it because of its many innaccuracies, contradictions and hypocrisies.
[/b][/quote]
Well, to use your own words earlier in your thread (so it&#39;s in no way putting them into your mouth), that&#39;s what doesn&#39;t make sence to YOU, it makes perfect sense to us. But to be fair to your side. Of course you think it&#39;s correct. Why would you believe in something if you didn&#39;t think it was correct.

[Will]

Originally posted by Link04+Jul 15 2004, 09:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Link04 @ Jul 15 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Will@Jul 16 2004, 02:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 15 2004, 09:09 PM
And why do you refuse to believe it? Because you think it&#39;s wrong
No, I don&#39;t believe in it because it makes no sense. Don&#39;t assume things about me that you have no clue about. If I said I didn&#39;t believe in it because it was "wrong," then I would say that. I don&#39;t believe in it because of its many innaccuracies, contradictions and hypocrisies.

Well, to use your own words earlier in your thread (so it&#39;s in no way putting them into your mouth), that&#39;s what doesn&#39;t make sence to YOU, it makes perfect sense to us. But to be fair to your side. Of course you think it&#39;s correct. Why would you believe in something if you didn&#39;t think it was correct. [/b][/quote]
Oh, yeah, I know. It doesn&#39;t make sense to me, so I refuse to believe in it. That&#39;s my argument. You do believe it makes sense, so you do believe in it. I see nothing wrong with that, but I will argue my point as to why I think it makes no sense. Never will I say that it&#39;s "wrong," but if I said that, know now that I didn&#39;t mean it was "wrong," just that I think it doesn&#39;t make any sense.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 16 2004, 02:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 16 2004, 02:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Link04@Jul 15 2004, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by -Will@Jul 16 2004, 02:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Alacrity@Jul 15 2004, 09:09 PM
And why do you refuse to believe it? Because you think it&#39;s wrong
No, I don&#39;t believe in it because it makes no sense. Don&#39;t assume things about me that you have no clue about. If I said I didn&#39;t believe in it because it was "wrong," then I would say that. I don&#39;t believe in it because of its many innaccuracies, contradictions and hypocrisies.

Well, to use your own words earlier in your thread (so it&#39;s in no way putting them into your mouth), that&#39;s what doesn&#39;t make sence to YOU, it makes perfect sense to us. But to be fair to your side. Of course you think it&#39;s correct. Why would you believe in something if you didn&#39;t think it was correct.
Oh, yeah, I know. It doesn&#39;t make sense to me, so I refuse to believe in it. That&#39;s my argument. You do believe it makes sense, so you do believe in it. I see nothing wrong with that, but I will argue my point as to why I think it makes no sense. Never will I say that it&#39;s "wrong," but if I said that, know now that I didn&#39;t mean it was "wrong," just that I think it doesn&#39;t make any sense. [/b][/quote]
Yep ^_^ and that&#39;s exactly why I"m done with this thread. Our opinions aren&#39;t going to change here. No one&#39;s going to be enlightened. I&#39;ll keep arguing my point as to why it makes sense to me, and you&#39;ll keep arguing yours as to why it makes sense to you. We won&#39;t be able to see each others reasoning fully because we&#39;re not the other person, it&#39;s completely subjective in that respect, and we&#39;ll both leave this thread with nothing gained or lost from it. Keep fighting the good, fight Will, I&#39;ve had enough of debating for tonight.

[LinkinJunior]

This may not be very usefull but I believe only what I see. Take the sun for instance, I can see the sun.. well except at night duh, therfore worshiping the sun seems more logical then worshiping a invisible man in the sky. (btw, George Carlin is a genious)

[Link04]

Originally posted by LinkinJunior@Jul 16 2004, 02:34 AM
This may not be very usefull but I believe only what I see. Take the sun for instance, I can see the sun.. well except at night duh, therfore worshiping the sun seems more logical then worshiping a invisible man in the sky. (btw, George Carlin is a genious)
if it&#39;s possible for this debate to regress, I think it has. :rolleyes: :P

[User Name]

Originally posted by LinkinJunior@Jul 15 2004, 07:34 PM
therfore worshiping the sun seems more logical then worshiping a invisible man in the sky. (btw, George Carlin is a genious)
Here&#39;s a rhetorical question for you. Have you ever seen the wind?

[F-ck Casey]

Yes, I&#39;ve seen my own farts.

Why don&#39;t you put a match to yours and see what happens.

[User Name]

Methane and wind are two completely different things, Casey.

[F-ck Casey]

YOU LIE.

[Derek The Infamous]

Okay this is my view on the debate, granted it&#39;s a little late but its better then nothing. In my eyes, I do believe in the "big bang" theory and the fact that everything in the world evolved from science. Like Will, I cannot see the technicality of a &#39;higher being&#39; forming such a complex system of planets and solar systems in a period of only six days. To do such a thing would have to mean that Jesus literally worked at the speed of light, and not to shoot down anyone&#39;s beliefs, special or not, that&#39;s a little much for one &#39;big guy from above&#39; to do in six days.

However, this is where my views are slightly different then everything else posted in this thread. While I don&#39;t fully support the idea of a &#39;divine being&#39; I do however, believe that Jesus did exist at one time or another. I believe that he was a very peaceful man who spread ideas of equality among others and spreading love to one another.

Since the people of his homeland were going through a vast oppression at that time, I believe Jesus&#39;s concepts led them to believe that he truly WAS their &#39;messiah&#39; and because of that they chose to follow him and spread his words of wisdom around the world. Hence, the birth of christianity. While some parts of the bible have been greately exaggerated (most likely by people who werent the original followers of jesus), I do believe that it WAS inspired by a real man who wanted peace in the world, despite many of the stories sounding almost impossible to believe.

Deny everything I said if you want, but I do honestly believe that Jesus Christ was a real man, just maybe not with all those extrordinary powers the bible wants you to believe.

[F-ck Casey]

pfft, and you ignore the best part of this debate, Derek.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Casey@Jul 15 2004, 10:50 PM
pfft, and you ignore the best part of this debate, Derek.
I have seen farts as well, Casey. They give a nice stream of flame when my dad puts a lighter to his ass and lights one up. Now that in my opinion, shows that you can see air...even if it might smell like sh*t and clear an entire room.

[F-ck Casey]

YES. That&#39;s the new debate.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by Casey@Jul 15 2004, 11:03 PM
YES. That&#39;s the new debate.
"Farts: Visible Or Invisible?"

[Missy]

Originally posted by Derek@Jul 15 2004, 08:49 PM
Okay this is my view on the debate, granted it&#39;s a little late but its better then nothing. In my eyes, I do believe in the "big bang" theory and the fact that everything in the world evolved from science. Like Will, I cannot see the technicality of a &#39;higher being&#39; forming such a complex system of planets and solar systems in a period of only six days. To do such a thing would have to mean that Jesus literally worked at the speed of light, and not to shoot down anyone&#39;s beliefs, special or not, that&#39;s a little much for one &#39;big guy from above&#39; to do in six days.
I asked that same question when I went through a time in my life where I started questioning my beliefs. I was told two similar things:

1) If you go along the "big bang" theory, there could not have been any sort of measure of time back then. So, a "day" back when the "big bang" happened and all these rocks were being formed and whatnot could&#39;ve been completely different than what it is now.

And 2) If you go by Christianity, God lives forever so a "day" in the life of God could be a lifetime for a man or more.

So, yeah, I guess what I&#39;m trying to say is, either way the planets and solar systems could&#39;ve technically been created in six "days".

[Todd]

Originally posted by Missy@Jul 15 2004, 11:10 PM

And 2) If you go by Christianity, God lives forever so a "day" in the life of God could be a lifetime for a man or more.
But doesn&#39;t the idea of some invisible man creating the entire universe seem a little absurd? I think so, besides, there are so many imperfections in nature that make you wonder "If god did create this, why does _____ happen." You can believe that god created everything if you want, but you have to wonder why he wouldn&#39;t make everything perfect and why he created diseases. When you make something or do a paper for schoo, you make it perfect, u doent tyep up ur papr liek dis on purpose....so why would god do that? And don&#39;t forget that there&#39;s not one shred of evidence to prove the creation theory.


Also, here&#39;s a few things:

1. It&#39;s been proven that at the beginning of time, the atmosphere was poisonous gas with very little or no oxygen and human life could not survive. According to the creation theory, Adam and Eve would have had to have been some invincible superhero to survive....they weren&#39;t.

2. Its also pretty much been proven that dinosaurs existed before humans......makes sense. Had they been around at the same time, humans would be extinct from the dinosaurs attacking. A T-Rex is hands down the most dangerous animal of all time, maybe except for a shark, but we dont live in water. With all the T-Rexes as well as other dangerous dinos living, humans would have been killed off. According to creationism, the dinos would have had to been created, lived and gone extinct within a day or two before adam and eve were created. Again, impossible. I dont know how long the dinosaurs ruled the earth but it was longer than a week.

3. According to the bible, god talked to adam and eve, they talked to him back and they held a conversation. But language, spoken language at least, didn&#39;t come about until long after prehistoric times where the human race was just starting. So, if creationism is correct, Adam and Eve were really smart, their kids and there kid&#39;s kids were complete dumbshits. Do you really want to believe that all their offspring were dumbshits until thousands of years down the road, someone started talking again?

[Mechanical Christ]

Originally posted by LinkinJunior@Jul 16 2004, 02:34 AM
This may not be very usefull but I believe only what I see. Take the sun for instance, I can see the sun.. well except at night duh, therfore worshiping the sun seems more logical then worshiping a invisible man in the sky. (btw, George Carlin is a genious)
I LOVE GEORGE CARLIN&#39;S RANT ABOUT RELIGION&#33; THAT ONE&#33;1 (w00t)


Religion probably has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. religion has actually convinced that there&#39;s and invisible man, living in the sky who watches evrything you do. And the invisble man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry , for ever and ever, till the end of time.

[*says in a sarcastic voice* but he loves you. (audience bursts out laughing and starts cheering)



*says loudly* He loves you and HE NEEDS MONEY&#33; he always needs money&#33;
He&#39;s all powrful all perfect all knowing and all wise but somehow *snaps fingers* Just CAn&#39;t Handle Money&#33;
Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more.

Now you talk about a good bulls**t story...Ho-Lee S**t.

but I want you to know, this is sincere, when it comes to believing in God...I really tried. but the longer you live the more you look, the more you realized that SOMETHING IS F***ked up. Something is wrong here. War, disease, death,destruction, hunger filth poverty torture crime corruption. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do I am Not Impressed. Results like these do not belong in the resume of a supreme being.

[Will]

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 15 2004, 11:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 15 2004, 11:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Missy@Jul 15 2004, 11:10 PM

And 2) If you go by Christianity, God lives forever so a "day" in the life of God could be a lifetime for a man or more.
But doesn&#39;t the idea of some invisible man creating the entire universe seem a little absurd? I think so, besides, there are so many imperfections in nature that make you wonder "If god did create this, why does _____ happen." You can believe that god created everything if you want, but you have to wonder why he wouldn&#39;t make everything perfect and why he created diseases. When you make something or do a paper for schoo, you make it perfect, u doent tyep up ur papr liek dis on purpose....so why would god do that? And don&#39;t forget that there&#39;s not one shred of evidence to prove the creation theory.


Also, here&#39;s a few things:

1. It&#39;s been proven that at the beginning of time, the atmosphere was poisonous gas with very little or no oxygen and human life could not survive. According to the creation theory, Adam and Eve would have had to have been some invincible superhero to survive....they weren&#39;t.

2. Its also pretty much been proven that dinosaurs existed before humans......makes sense. Had they been around at the same time, humans would be extinct from the dinosaurs attacking. A T-Rex is hands down the most dangerous animal of all time, maybe except for a shark, but we dont live in water. With all the T-Rexes as well as other dangerous dinos living, humans would have been killed off. According to creationism, the dinos would have had to been created, lived and gone extinct within a day or two before adam and eve were created. Again, impossible. I dont know how long the dinosaurs ruled the earth but it was longer than a week.

3. According to the bible, god talked to adam and eve, they talked to him back and they held a conversation. But language, spoken language at least, didn&#39;t come about until long after prehistoric times where the human race was just starting. So, if creationism is correct, Adam and Eve were really smart, their kids and there kid&#39;s kids were complete dumbshits. Do you really want to believe that all their offspring were dumbshits until thousands of years down the road, someone started talking again? [/b][/quote]
I love you, Todd. :lol:

[Mechanical Christ]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 16 2004, 08:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 16 2004, 08:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Todd@Jul 15 2004, 11:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Missy@Jul 15 2004, 11:10 PM

And 2) If you go by Christianity, God lives forever so a "day" in the life of God could be a lifetime for a man or more.
But doesn&#39;t the idea of some invisible man creating the entire universe seem a little absurd? I think so, besides, there are so many imperfections in nature that make you wonder "If god did create this, why does _____ happen." You can believe that god created everything if you want, but you have to wonder why he wouldn&#39;t make everything perfect and why he created diseases. When you make something or do a paper for schoo, you make it perfect, u doent tyep up ur papr liek dis on purpose....so why would god do that? And don&#39;t forget that there&#39;s not one shred of evidence to prove the creation theory.


Also, here&#39;s a few things:

1. It&#39;s been proven that at the beginning of time, the atmosphere was poisonous gas with very little or no oxygen and human life could not survive. According to the creation theory, Adam and Eve would have had to have been some invincible superhero to survive....they weren&#39;t.

2. Its also pretty much been proven that dinosaurs existed before humans......makes sense. Had they been around at the same time, humans would be extinct from the dinosaurs attacking. A T-Rex is hands down the most dangerous animal of all time, maybe except for a shark, but we dont live in water. With all the T-Rexes as well as other dangerous dinos living, humans would have been killed off. According to creationism, the dinos would have had to been created, lived and gone extinct within a day or two before adam and eve were created. Again, impossible. I dont know how long the dinosaurs ruled the earth but it was longer than a week.

3. According to the bible, god talked to adam and eve, they talked to him back and they held a conversation. But language, spoken language at least, didn&#39;t come about until long after prehistoric times where the human race was just starting. So, if creationism is correct, Adam and Eve were really smart, their kids and there kid&#39;s kids were complete dumbshits. Do you really want to believe that all their offspring were dumbshits until thousands of years down the road, someone started talking again?
I love you, Todd. :lol: [/b][/quote]
So do I :lol:

[Atomic125]

Originally posted by Todd+Jul 16 2004, 04:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Todd @ Jul 16 2004, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Missy@Jul 15 2004, 11:10 PM

And 2) If you go by Christianity, God lives forever so a "day" in the life of God could be a lifetime for a man or more.

But doesn&#39;t the idea of some invisible man creating the entire universe seem a little absurd? I think so, besides, there are so many imperfections in nature that make you wonder "If god did create this, why does _____ happen." You can believe that god created everything if you want, but you have to wonder why he wouldn&#39;t make everything perfect and why he created diseases. When you make something or do a paper for schoo, you make it perfect, u doent tyep up ur papr liek dis on purpose....so why would god do that? And don&#39;t forget that there&#39;s not one shred of evidence to prove the creation theory.


Also, here&#39;s a few things:

1. It&#39;s been proven that at the beginning of time, the atmosphere was poisonous gas with very little or no oxygen and human life could not survive. According to the creation theory, Adam and Eve would have had to have been some invincible superhero to survive....they weren&#39;t.

2. Its also pretty much been proven that dinosaurs existed before humans......makes sense. Had they been around at the same time, humans would be extinct from the dinosaurs attacking. A T-Rex is hands down the most dangerous animal of all time, maybe except for a shark, but we dont live in water. With all the T-Rexes as well as other dangerous dinos living, humans would have been killed off. According to creationism, the dinos would have had to been created, lived and gone extinct within a day or two before adam and eve were created. Again, impossible. I dont know how long the dinosaurs ruled the earth but it was longer than a week.

3. According to the bible, god talked to adam and eve, they talked to him back and they held a conversation. But language, spoken language at least, didn&#39;t come about until long after prehistoric times where the human race was just starting. So, if creationism is correct, Adam and Eve were really smart, their kids and there kid&#39;s kids were complete dumbshits. Do you really want to believe that all their offspring were dumbshits until thousands of years down the road, someone started talking again? [/b][/quote]
1st of all (not reffering to Todd&#39;s topic) everyone keeps limiting God&#39;s power. He&#39;s a god, infinite power, whether he&#39;s real or a myth, this God&#39;s powerful. Creating the world in six days is no problem for one of his power, and all he had to do was speak it into existence. Second of all (referring to Missy&#39;s comment), although when God created the Earth, there was no "day" set up, the first books of the bible were written many years later by moses on Mt. Sinai, after the days system was set up. And besides, God is the all-powerful force in the heavens, he can see the future, and knows man&#39;s way of keeping time then.

In the beginning, everything was perfect. Of course, it&#39;s pointless to use the bible because you don&#39;t believe in it but the bible says that in the beginning, everything was perfect. Then man sinned and death came into the world. But still, they had it pretty good, living near a thousand years. Then, all the world sinned, and the great flood happened. the flood came from above, bringing all of space&#39;s junk in there, and men start to live shorter lives.
That would be what the bible has to say on it. Sin is what created imperfections, not God.

1. Could I get a document on the poisonious gas stuff? I&#39;ve never heard of it and would like to look into it.

2. Dinosaurs existed the same time as man, proven by their footprints on top of each other in a fossil. The time between the steos couldn&#39;t have been more than 5 minutes, lest the clay or mud dry up. Also, T-Rexes have been proven to have not been able to kill. It&#39;s arms were too short to grab his prey, and his build was slow. The T-Rex was most likely a scavenger, taking the food of other predators. And dinosaurs aren&#39;t as mean as movies have made them. They eat their animals, and their plants, and leave us to do our own thing. And, if you want to us the bible, God had control over every one of those animals. He had the ability to bring them to Adam to be named.

3. From an atheist&#39;s view, spoken language didn&#39;t come for many years, cause they believe in evolution, and evolution says man wasn&#39;t around for a long time. Also, Adam and Eve had a long time to themselves in the garden. We do not know how long it was before they ate the fruit, and there was a tree of life in the garden, They may have developed language in that time, in fact, they had to have, otherwise the bible would contradict itself. Plus, God is a guy in the sky with infinite power and wisdom. He created the world in six days, it would&#39;ve only been too easy for him to have given them the ability to speak.

[Derek The Infamous]

I believe that in this large debate, the true meaning of the bible has been lost, and instead has been replaced by a war between athiests and people of heavy Christian faith. The bible was made because it was intended to teach respect, love and equality amongst one another, and a life without sin. As stupid as some athiests may find these teachings, we could sure benefit from love and equality right now, as there is a lot of violence raging overseas and even amongst our own soil. We are in an era that the bible refers to as the "last days", the point in which the world is falling apart, and a time in which everyone must repent from thier sins or watch life as we know it cease to exist.

This prophecy can have technical applications, as North Korea is currentely developing Nuclear Weapons that are up to five times more powerful then the bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima. It is this greed to rule all, and this hate towards one another that is going to launch us into another World War. It is in this war, that I believe, the world will find its &#39;armageddon&#39; as badly thought out decisions (aka nuclear bombs) will lead to vast parts of the world erupting in utter chaos. Had the writers of the bible, truly seen the future, they would have been absolutely correct in their intepretation of the world today.

Taking a scripture directly from The Second Epistle Of Paul The Apostle To Timothy: Chapters 3 and 4:

"2 This know also, that in the last days perilious times shall come. For men shall be lovers of thier own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than God."

Many people, religious people especially could consider the wars erupting overseas as the "perilious times" that are prophecized from within the bible. Whether you chose to follow a religion or not, it cannot be denied that the descriptions of mankind quoted in that scripture, hold very true in today&#39;s world. It can be said that many world leaders have been guilty of such behavior and therefore, have caused many wars in the world from thier inability to be righteous and free of what we call &#39;sin&#39;.

I&#39;ll admit that I don&#39;t go to Church that much at all. But I do realize, after reading some very important scriptures from the Holy Bible, that many of the events prophecized in the bible are happening before our very eyes. I am not sure if the "Armageddon" is upon us, but I am 100% sure that another World War, with the weapons we have today, will spell vast and horrible consequences for America and it&#39;s surrounding countries.

I am not telling everyone to become christians or worship a god, I am merely pointing out cold hard facts, in the hopes that people can understand what the Bible was truly trying to say all along.

[rosanna]

i&#39;m atheist but i do not denounce anyone that believes in god, after all i know more christians than atheists anyway. :rolleyes:

[Will]

I believe in respect and love and all those other things without a book telling me that I should. It isn&#39;t that I find them stupid (notice that I&#39;m speaking for myself, here), it&#39;s that the majority of it doesn&#39;t make any sense to me, and it&#39;s the fact that the book contradicts itself too many times and has far too many inaccuracies for me. I know it was written by man and man makes mistakes, but if it was inspired by God and he was telling these men what to write, don&#39;t you think it would&#39;ve been free of errors?

Also, I have a strong feeling that religion is the entire reason that the world is the way it is today. Everything was fine before religion came along. (And with religion, I group Greek and Roman mythology, as well.) Once these religions started popping up, we started having the wars and whatnot. I may be completely off-base, but I feel that religion is the whole reason there are any wars to begin with.

Also, without religion, the Native Americans would&#39;ve been on this continent for hundreds of years longer than they were. Why do I say this? Because the Puritans and Pilgrims left England to get away from the Church - something religious. Had there been no Church, and just people believing whatever they wanted to believe, I have a strong feeling that the world would be a much, much different place.

[Derek The Infamous]

I support all of your views in that statement Will. I just wish people across the world knew that fighting solves absolutely nothing.

[Atomic125]

Religion, freedom, and all that crap are the start of wars, I agree. However, I believe that the bible has no contradictions or inaccuracies. What do you find, inaccurate about it?

[Will]

Originally posted by Atomic125@Jul 16 2004, 12:03 PM
Religion, freedom, and all that crap are the start of wars, I agree. However, I believe that the bible has no contradictions or inaccuracies. What do you find, inaccurate about it?
Well, for one thing, in Genesis, the Bible first says that all life is created from water, including the fowl, but then it says that all life is created from dry ground, including the fowl. That&#39;s pretty contradictory to me.

[Atomic125]

Originally posted by Will+Jul 16 2004, 05:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jul 16 2004, 05:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Atomic125@Jul 16 2004, 12:03 PM
Religion, freedom, and all that crap are the start of wars, I agree. However, I believe that the bible has no contradictions or inaccuracies. What do you find, inaccurate about it?
Well, for one thing, in Genesis, the Bible first says that all life is created from water, including the fowl, but then it says that all life is created from dry ground, including the fowl. That&#39;s pretty contradictory to me. [/b][/quote]
I&#39;m not sure I understand. The bible says all life was created from God. Do you have an exact verse as to where it states that it was created from land or water.

NVM, I think I see what you&#39;re saying.
Genesis 1:2
The Earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the spirite of God was hovering over the waters

There, it says God was over the face of the Earth, which was all water. God had made the Earth so far, when he spoke the universe into existence, and was returning to this planet so that he made light. I say this because some think that this means something else had created the Earth, and God just added life to it. Anyways, What God is saying is this, The world was like one big undersea world, what he did was make certain land rise up from under the waters to create dry land. Is this what you were referring too?

[Will]

IN GENESIS are two contradictory stories of creation. In Genesis 1:20 & 21, “every living creature is brought forth from the waters, including every winged fowl.” But in 2:19 God brings forth “every beast of the field and every fowl of the air” from dry ground.

[Alacrity]

Made of water but from the Earth? The literal meanings of the Bible you make may not make sense, but use common sense, people. I don&#39;t think God was really trying to tell every last detail or thing he ment when he was inspiring the disciples to record this. I mean, come on, when you&#39;re telling your friend a story you don&#39;t give them every last detail and thought you had, do you? It&#39;d take forever&#33; Well think of that story as the bible. Like Derek said, it was used to teach about God and peace and respect for one another. Religion is not the thing that drove the Pilgrims here. The crazy uptight people that took their religion way too seriously was what drove them here.


It&#39;s like hating the game instead of the player. Think about it.

[Ander]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 16 2004, 09:22 AM

IN GENESIS are two contradictory stories of creation. In Genesis 1:20 & 21, “every living creature is brought forth from the waters, including every winged fowl.” But in 2:19 God brings forth “every beast of the field and every fowl of the air” from dry ground.

1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life
single celled organisims

2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air;
Used the earth to create their bodies and things.

I would say the anti-bible guy just got served.

[Atomic125]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 16 2004, 05:22 PM

IN GENESIS are two contradictory stories of creation. In Genesis 1:20 & 21, “every living creature is brought forth from the waters, including every winged fowl.” But in 2:19 God brings forth “every beast of the field and every fowl of the air” from dry ground.
Hmmm, my version reads differently.

Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth, across the face of the firmament of the heavens."

So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
That was 21 and 22

Wait a sec... OK, they&#39;re pretty much the same. And you do have a good point, but the answer I&#39;ve always used is this, These are two seperate stories, God recreated those animals so that they may all be in one place so that Adam could name them and find a companion. and in verse 20 of chapter 2, he named the animals, but didn&#39;t find a companion. then God created Eve. So, the whole purpose of the second one was not to have another creation, but to recreate all animals so that they may be in one place to be named and one found as a companion.

[Rachel]

Don&#39;t know if it&#39;s already been said, but what irritates me (as a Messianic Jewish person... yeah, that&#39;s right... a Jewish person who believes that Jesus was the messiah lol) is when people say that God wrote the bible.

God did NOT write the bible. He is a spiritual being, therefore not having the properties of a living physical being. He TOLD people what to write.

And we, as erring humans, tend to paraphrase. Not to mention, each book was written by someone different. At the most, a couple of books were written by the same person, but still, its not like God came down, and went into somebody&#39;s body and physically wrote it.

Also, it is written in the books that Jesus said to remember his death and not his birth. His birth, like someone had already mentioned, was to enter the world. His death was to show that he sacrificed himself for the well-being of others.

And I kind of see half-way on the whole athiest thing. I mean, I believe that God did create Man and all of the other stuff here on earth, but that evolution kind of took its own course. It&#39;s like that damn Chicken and Egg thing... who really CARES?&#33;

Also, I did a project on religion, and I remember reading that Catholicism is actually a combination religion, taking Judiasm, Christianity, and Paganism beliefs and mixing it together.

One example of this. Notice how Chanukah ( A Jewish holiday), Christmas ( a Catholic holiday), and the Roman Pagan holiday of Saturnialia are all around the same time? Judaism and Roman Paganism actually coexisted, and some of the Jews were the slaves of the Romans, therefore melding both holidays together. Also, the Church got its start in Rome, therefore some of the beliefs of the Romans and their slaves MUST have been melded into the Christianity, therefore creating Catholicism.

Another example is Easter. Notice how Easter, Pesach, Fortuna Publica and Floralia tend to be in the same month (April). Easter,Pesach (better known as Passover), and Fortuna Publica tend to be around the same weekend, but Floralia tends to be at the end of the month (even though the Roman calendar starts in March and not in January). They are all festivals of rebirth and/or good fortune for the people. Pesach and Fortuna Publica are the most alike because they both celebrate the luck of the people, which is was Fortuna Publica literally means in Latin. Easter and Pesach both celebrate God or his angels saving the people (and also both have to do with Jews, if you think about it). Easter and Floralia both celebrate fertility of the earth too.

Now... think about it. All in the same month. All revolving around the same topics. And all connected. Romans had Jews as their slaves. Jesus was a jew. Think. You cannot deny the fact that they are all strangely similar.

That&#39;s really why I don&#39;t take Catholicism that serious (no offense). There is a might difference between Catholicism and Christianity. The "true" Christians, as they like to be called, are more often referred to as Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses (I have a few in my family). They do celebrate Easter, but only because of the Last Supper, which was a Pesach Seder. They do not celebrate Christmas, because, if you read the bible, its more around late September to early October. While I know that the Bible takes place in the Middle East, I still don&#39;t think that there will be shephards in late December. Nah. Again, that&#39;s how Christmas connects to Saturnalia. Saturnalia takes place the week of the 20th to the 27th. That&#39;s the week of Christmas, and tends to be around the time of Chanukah. They alo don&#39;t celebrate birthdays, but that&#39;s way too long and complicated for me to explain.

And wow, I just went totally off topic for 20 minutes. Sorry... :blush:

My two cents went over its minutes... got raised more to like, 20 cents... overage fees suck...

[F-ck Casey]

Unless I missed something, I don&#39;t think anyone has said that God wrote the Bible.

anyone else get a burning sensation when they touch one? :shifty:

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Casey@Jul 16 2004, 01:06 PM
Unless I missed something, I don&#39;t think anyone has said that God wrote the Bible.

anyone else get a burning sensation when they touch one? :shifty:
No I mean, people are saying that God was being hypocritical. God isn&#39;t being hypocritical. The people who wrote it are paraphrasing, therefore warping the true meaning of the words.

God could have said "I personally do not like that a man sleeps with another man, but if they love each other, love knows no gender." The person who wrote that could have wrote "Gays suck", you know?

((and that wasn&#39;t a flame, I was just giving a little scenario. I love gay people. My uncle is gay ^_^))

[rosanna]

i dont know what to think i have only been to church like two times and i have never read a bible.

we have to read and interpret the king james version of the bible for ap english 12, and two of us in there are atheist. i dont know what she thinks but i am...um....leery of the situation because i am about to get graded on something that was not as important in my childhood as it was in others, and i dont know anything about what the bible says.

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by TheVoodoo@Jul 14 2004, 05:57 PM
Before you go saying the Bible is full of double standards at least state one double standard that is actually in the Bible.
Old Testament: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

New Testament: Love your enemy. If your enemy strikes your cheek, turn and let him strike the other, blah blah etc.

[User Name]

The &#39;eye for an eye&#39; concept was mosaic law, which was the current system of law at the time. Loving your enemy was something that Christ taught during the time he was alive.

[The Doctor]

2. Dinosaurs existed the same time as man, proven by their footprints on top of each other in a fossil. The time between the steos couldn&#39;t have been more than 5 minutes, lest the clay or mud dry up. Also, T-Rexes have been proven to have not been able to kill. It&#39;s arms were too short to grab his prey, and his build was slow. The T-Rex was most likely a scavenger, taking the food of other predators. And dinosaurs aren&#39;t as mean as movies have made them. They eat their animals, and their plants, and leave us to do our own thing. And, if you want to us the bible, God had control over every one of those animals. He had the ability to bring them to Adam to be named.

Ok no. If there&#39;s one thing I know (because I&#39;ve studied them ever since I first saw Jurassic Park) is dinosaurs. They did not exist at the same time as man, and that "fossil" you talk about, I want proof on that because I&#39;ve never heard of that. Man wasnt seen until a few million years after the dinosaurs died off. T-Rex was not a scavenger. It&#39;s lack of small arms was overtaken by it&#39;s speed, size, and its other extremely powerful limbs. They were hunters. And this "god" is so powerful, but he even has rules. He wont affect our free will, so he does NOT have control over us, because that would be affecting free will.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Nate@Jul 17 2004, 03:27 AM
And this "god" is so powerful, but he even has rules. He wont affect our free will, so he does NOT have control over us, because that would be affecting free will.



Heh, firstly, you can&#39;t put rules on God, if you acknowledge God, you also acknowledge that&#39;s he&#39;s perfect and all powerful. Secondly, would you know if you didn&#39;t have free will? Think about that for a second.

[Shade]

On the free will subject:

One of the biggest problems I have with religion, is that in some way or another it often preaches that our life is predestined and everything will always work out the way its going to work out and we can&#39;t change it. So in this case God would be controling every aspect of our life, because he is &#39;all powerful&#39;. Well then, did he predestin all the victims or murder and rape? Were the Jews predestined to be slaughtered by the Nazis and were the Nazis predestined to be the killers? If God&#39;s so all powerful, then he sure has made some major #### ups. Or maybe only the &#39;good&#39; people have decent live predestined for them. It makes me sick. I see religion used as a means by many to not take responsibility for their actions. "Oh i wouldn&#39;t have passed that test anyways", "I&#39;m fated to do poorly in ____". Bullshit, 99% of the time you are able to make your own future. If I chose to study for a test, I&#39;d usually do well, If I didn&#39;t I&#39;d usually do bad. That simple. There wasn&#39;t any &#39;being&#39; determining whether I did well or poorly, I chose one or the other.

[Radical Dreamer]

Originally posted by Shade@Jul 17 2004, 03:38 PM
On the free will subject:

One of the biggest problems I have with religion, is that in some way or another it often preaches that our life is predestined and everything will always work out the way its going to work out and we can&#39;t change it. So in this case God would be controling every aspect of our life, because he is &#39;all powerful&#39;. Well then, did he predestin all the victims or murder and rape? Were the Jews predestined to be slaughtered by the Nazis and were the Nazis predestined to be the killers? If God&#39;s so all powerful, then he sure has made some major #### ups. Or maybe only the &#39;good&#39; people have decent live predestined for them. It makes me sick. I see religion used as a means by many to not take responsibility for their actions. "Oh i wouldn&#39;t have passed that test anyways", "I&#39;m fated to do poorly in ____". Bullshit, 99% of the time you are able to make your own future. If I chose to study for a test, I&#39;d usually do well, If I didn&#39;t I&#39;d usually do bad. That simple. There wasn&#39;t any &#39;being&#39; determining whether I did well or poorly, I chose one or the other.
The Bible, even if it&#39;s the word of God, was clearly written by men. Humans make mistakes, so IMO it should only serve as a source of moral guidance, not a rule book to life. When people base their actions on a book written hundreds of years ago instead of independent thought and judgement, things will inevitably go wrong. IMO (again) the stories/parables in the Bible are merely allegorical - they are symbolic of Biblical truths and truths that God would want us to believe. I&#39;ve always found it a bit naive and impractical to think God would actually take a clump of earth from the ground and start moulding it into Adam like kids would do with Play Dough.

Not counting the many contradictions within the Bible, the book&#39;s been translated and paraphrased so many times that some of it is no longer credible. In fact, some scholars have even found errors that occurred as a result of mistranslation from one language to another (can&#39;t remember the errors but trust me, there are errors in the Bible).

Going back to Shade&#39;s point, I don&#39;t think God intends for any of the rape, murder and slaughtering to happen to us. God&#39;s probably given up on us, &#39;cos we&#39;re a hopeless bunch and He&#39;ll just leave it up to us to sort things out or screw ourselves over. Think about it: all the misery and suffering that have descended upon the human race were afflicted by US. No deity or divine being ever intervened and thought it a good idea to bump off the Jews in WW2. Even if God oversaw our selfish actions and irresponsibility, it sure as heck wasn&#39;t HIS job to intervene. Who to blame for the starvation and poverty in Africa? Rich countries. Who to blame for the UV rays that are penetrating the ozone and killing our skin cells? Human activity and pollution. I don&#39;t know if this holds true for anyone, but if you spill something on the floor, you clean up your own sh*t. If something goes wrong with the world, it&#39;s probably our responsibility to clean up our act rather than whine about how the Lord Almighty didn&#39;t do enough to help us. I guess the only thing we can blame God for are all those hurricanes and tornadoes Mother Nature cooks up to destroy our environment. But then again, even some natural disasters can be linked back to human negligence and apathy.

Sometimes, I wonder how many times this has been said before: humans invented religion, and humans corrupt it. I agree there that religion is too often used as a security blanket, a cushion for them to fall back onto when they&#39;re in trouble or as an excuse for people to dodge responsibility. All I have to do to pass that test is pray to God and God will miraculously grant me an A. If we just pray and hope that the world will be a better place, God will make it so. That&#39;s all wishful thinking. Sometimes, praying and hoping ain&#39;t enough. If people won&#39;t even lift a finger to get what they want, God can&#39;t always deliver it to them on a silver platter.

On the record, religion/God have been used and exploited so that:
- We can feel good about ourselves even when we encounter failure in life. Just pray and God will hopefully get us back on our two feet.
- Leaders of nations can wage wars on the pretext of religion. (In reality, the Protestants and Catholics are fighting about class, and the Jews and Muslims are fighting about land.)
- People can discriminate others on the basis of their &#39;faith&#39;. Did Leviticus said that homosexuality was wrong? I guess that makes it okay for gays to be discriminated.
- People can carry out revenge without feeling guilt. The Bible did say "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Unfortunately, some people fail to recall that the Bible also said "forgive your enemy".

.....and scores of other unholy deeds, all in the name of God and religion.

Maybe we should just go back to worshipping Nature. :wth:

[Alacrity]

^ I think I love you.

[RememberingNever]

Do any of you attend a Catholic school?

In Religion class they explain a lot to you about God and the Bible. They never said that God has planned out our lives and we are destined to whatever.

I think that people that were brought up going to a Catholic School have more of an understanding of the Bible and God and probably have more faith than others that don&#39;t.

I&#39;ll admit that sometimes it&#39;s hard to believe that God is real and stuff like that, but we all had to come from somewhere and it&#39;s bad to be a non-believer just because you have doubts or find it hard to believe.

Ever since I came to the LPA Forums I&#39;ve bcome very confused about all this and I wonder if God really is real. It seems as though some of you are against the existence of God and that you are postitive He doesn&#39;t exsist.

In school they tell me a lot of things about God (and the Bible) some things make sense others are very hard to believe.

I haven&#39;t read the &#39;Anti Bible&#39; page yet so maybe I&#39;ll understand more of what it&#39;s saying when I do. And maybe I&#39;ll agree with some of you :wth:

I believe in God.. so I think it&#39;s wrong for people to say that I shouldn&#39;t. And so therefore I must say that&#39;s it&#39;s wrong for us believers to say that non-believers are wrong for not believing. (Not that anyone has said that.)

Anyway, I&#39;m not very informed about all this. And since I&#39;m out of school for the summer, religion and the Bible are off my mind so I can&#39;t that much go into detail.. even if I wanted to, because I just don&#39;t know what to say.

[Glenn]

I think many of the inaccuracies of the bible are based on the fact that it was written a long time ago and culture has greatly changed.

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by SaxopianoGRD@Jul 18 2004, 02:25 AM
I think many of the inaccuracies of the bible are based on the fact that it was written a long time ago and culture has greatly changed.
i agree.
but still, the thought of so many generations passing the stories down until they were written makes me think that the old testament is buls*it.

[Dr. Satan]

Originally posted by Casey+Jul 14 2004, 07:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Jul 14 2004, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Dr. Satan@Jul 14 2004, 02:05 PM
It just amazes me how Satanic people beleive that god does not exist :lol: . How cam Satan exist and God not? Everyone knows that Satan is a fallen angel...without God...there are no angels....
are you a Satanist?

EDIT: Not the Self-God one, the one where you worship Satan. [/b][/quote]
No I am not a Satanist. I dont beleive in anything.

[User Name]

Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 18 2004, 09:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 18 2004, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 18 2004, 02:25 AM
I think many of the inaccuracies of the bible are based on the fact that it was written a long time ago and culture has greatly changed.
i agree.
but still, the thought of so many generations passing the stories down until they were written makes me think that the old testament is buls*it. [/b][/quote]
If that were true, then howcome chariots were found in the sea (Dead Sea or the Red Sea? I forgot) that Moses and his people crossed on foot?

[Atomic125]

Originally posted by Nate@Jul 17 2004, 03:27 AM

2. Dinosaurs existed the same time as man, proven by their footprints on top of each other in a fossil. The time between the steos couldn&#39;t have been more than 5 minutes, lest the clay or mud dry up. Also, T-Rexes have been proven to have not been able to kill. It&#39;s arms were too short to grab his prey, and his build was slow. The T-Rex was most likely a scavenger, taking the food of other predators. And dinosaurs aren&#39;t as mean as movies have made them. They eat their animals, and their plants, and leave us to do our own thing. And, if you want to us the bible, God had control over every one of those animals. He had the ability to bring them to Adam to be named.

Ok no. If there&#39;s one thing I know (because I&#39;ve studied them ever since I first saw Jurassic Park) is dinosaurs. They did not exist at the same time as man, and that "fossil" you talk about, I want proof on that because I&#39;ve never heard of that. Man wasnt seen until a few million years after the dinosaurs died off. T-Rex was not a scavenger. It&#39;s lack of small arms was overtaken by it&#39;s speed, size, and its other extremely powerful limbs. They were hunters. And this "god" is so powerful, but he even has rules. He wont affect our free will, so he does NOT have control over us, because that would be affecting free will.
Cool, another sensible atheist. Will was seeming to be one of the few who actually used logic, well, I guess there were a lot of others, anyways, on with the story.

The footprint thing was my bad, completely false, sorry guys. But there are carvings that date back a ways found in caves. These are carvings of dinosaurs. I quickly grabbed these off the web, if you want more, there is some. Go to this link to see a few ancient carvings of dinosaurs. http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinocarving.html

The T-Rex is an interesting debate. Some think he&#39;s predator, others not. personally, I think he&#39;s a scavenger. However, either way, he ate his animals, and left the other humans to do their own thing. Well, at least he left the human race alone for a while, most likely under God&#39;s control, but then sin came along and so did death. Of course, when I say most likely, that doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s true. Whether my way or another, the human race was kept alive long enough to get a start in this world which they&#39;ve kept going.

And your last comment, I don&#39;t think I explained well enough. This is not something that God CAN&#39;T do, but something that he has chosen not to. He could have control over us, and he does, but has made up his mind that he won&#39;t use it.

Oh yes, and referring to Rachel&#39;s comment, God spoke to the men and women who wrote the bible, and they wrote exactly as he said to. Otherwise we don&#39;t have any proof that the bible is anything, making it just another book, making it completely useless. I&#39;m not saying that you are, but many people use that idea when they don&#39;t like what the bible tells them to do, so they say men wrote it, made a mistake, so maybe what I think is the real thing.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 10:21 PM
The T-Rex is an interesting debate. Some think he&#39;s predator, others not. personally, I think he&#39;s a scavenger. However, either way, he ate his animals, and left the other humans to do their own thing. Well, at least he left the human race alone for a while, most likely under God&#39;s control, but then sin came along and so did death. Of course, when I say most likely, that doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s true. Whether my way or another, the human race was kept alive long enough to get a start in this world which they&#39;ve kept going.
No...its been proven by many scientists that T-Rex was not a scavenger.

[Atomic125]

Originally posted by Nate+Jul 19 2004, 03:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nate @ Jul 19 2004, 03:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Atomic125@Jul 18 2004, 10:21 PM
The T-Rex is an interesting debate. Some think he&#39;s predator, others not. personally, I think he&#39;s a scavenger. However, either way, he ate his animals, and left the other humans to do their own thing. Well, at least he left the human race alone for a while, most likely under God&#39;s control, but then sin came along and so did death. Of course, when I say most likely, that doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s true. Whether my way or another, the human race was kept alive long enough to get a start in this world which they&#39;ve kept going.
No...its been proven by many scientists that T-Rex was not a scavenger. [/b][/quote]
I apologize again. But that&#39;s not the point. My point is, there is no proof that dinosaurs ate or attacked humans back then.

[Will]

Because dinosaurs didn&#39;t exist at the same time as humans&#33;

[Atomic125]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 19 2004, 03:22 AM
Because dinosaurs didn&#39;t exist at the same time as humans&#33;
What about all the carvings discovered. Those ancient people weren&#39;t bright enought to find some bones and reconsruct what they looked like. So they must&#39;ve seen them in the flesh. And the drawings have been proven to be old. Old enough for a creationist to say there were there for most of the Earth&#39;s life.

[Kæton]

In the days of evolution, early humans drew of what they saw BEFORE destroying it. If you knew any information on evolution, you&#39;d know they weren&#39;t around during the prehistoric ages.

In Australia, I do believe, they found larger creatures, not the size of animals today and most likely animals that were put to extinct back then. Man burned down a lot of stuff that killed the animals there and such but they left behind drawings on walls of creatures, yes, but that doesn&#39;t mean they were dinosaurs since man evolved way after the extinction of the dinosaur. Not only that, when the dinosaurs were still around, man was still a rodent, or so I&#39;ve learned, the marsupial.

[Will]

Originally posted by Atomic125+Jul 18 2004, 10:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Atomic125 @ Jul 18 2004, 10:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 19 2004, 03:22 AM
Because dinosaurs didn&#39;t exist at the same time as humans&#33;
What about all the carvings discovered. Those ancient people weren&#39;t bright enought to find some bones and reconsruct what they looked like. So they must&#39;ve seen them in the flesh. And the drawings have been proven to be old. Old enough for a creationist to say there were there for most of the Earth&#39;s life. [/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t know who taught you that humans lived at the same time as dinosaurs or that humans made cave paintings and carvings of dinosaurs, but they were wrong...

[Kæton]

There are those books you know, made for pre-schoolers where they have "cavemen" living with dinosaurs... you know... the purple and orange ones, but.... umm... I didn&#39;t know we are supposed to take those as real :wth:...

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by Cameron+Jul 18 2004, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cameron @ Jul 18 2004, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -ass_kicker@Jul 18 2004, 09:23 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 18 2004, 02:25 AM
I think many of the inaccuracies of the bible are based on the fact that it was written a long time ago and culture has greatly changed.
i agree.
but still, the thought of so many generations passing the stories down until they were written makes me think that the old testament is buls*it.
If that were true, then howcome chariots were found in the sea (Dead Sea or the Red Sea? I forgot) that Moses and his people crossed on foot? [/b][/quote]
well, if its proven, then i cant say it didnt happen. this fact obviously shows that some of the stories are true. and yes i was wrong to say everything is buls*it. most of it is though.

EDIT: and its read sea, darling. at least i think so... dont listen to me.

[Jae]

This debate is very interesting. I just want to comment on it.

I&#39;d jump into it, but Derek pretty much said all I was gonna say..

Derek, you are cool. :thumbsup:

[Todd]

There are 2 places where you will hear of dinosaurs coexisiting with people:

1. Jurassic Park
2. Barney.



Thats it. In real history, humans and dinosaurs never existed together

[Will]

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 19 2004, 01:58 PM
There are 2 places where you will hear of dinosaurs coexisiting with people:

1. Jurassic Park
2. Barney.



Thats it. In real history, humans and dinosaurs never existed together
LMFAO.

Oh, Todd... where would we be without you? :lol:

[Atomic125]

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 19 2004, 06:58 PM
There are 2 places where you will hear of dinosaurs coexisiting with people:

1. Jurassic Park
2. Barney.



Thats it. In real history, humans and dinosaurs never existed together
Whether I agree or not, I must admit, that was funny.

[emmmers]

There are 2 places where you will hear of dinosaurs coexisiting with people:

1. Jurassic Park
2. Barney.
I can tell this is going nowhere. :lol:

[ChooseYourPoison]

Here&#39;s my POV on religion. I see the bible as more, "guidelines" on how you live your life. That&#39;s why it&#39;s so rediculous that people say "Ooohhh, you&#39;re SO going to Hell for that&#33;" I being atheist, don&#39;t follow the bible at all, seeing as how I have no reason to. But really, if someone randomly said "Hey, I&#39;m a prophet&#33;" We&#39;d think they&#39;re crazy. Hell, if anything that supposedly happened in the bible happened today, we&#39;d all be in an insane assylum. But really, you can&#39;t just base your life upon a book that might be incredibly false. It&#39;s like saying "Everything in Harry Potter happened in real life" and people believe in afterlife in Heaven, Hell, etc. But they don&#39;t believe in ghosts? what&#39;s with that? :wth:

Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do. Just let the people live their lives the way they want to live them. People shouldn&#39;t be peanilized for their beliefs.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Todd@Jul 19 2004, 06:58 PM
There are 2 places where you will hear of dinosaurs coexisiting with people:

1. Jurassic Park
2. Barney.



Thats it. In real history, humans and dinosaurs never existed together
:lol:











I read most the article and found most of it amusing.

[Ander]

Originally posted by HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM
Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do.
There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created.

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by superxero88+Jul 20 2004, 05:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (superxero88 @ Jul 20 2004, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM
Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do.
There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created. [/b][/quote]
Yes there was.

In my mind, simply saying "I don&#39;t believe in God" is a strong point by itself.

[Ander]

Originally posted by Casey+Jul 20 2004, 03:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Jul 20 2004, 03:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 20 2004, 05:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM
Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do.
There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created.
Yes there was.

In my mind, simply saying "I don&#39;t believe in God" is a strong point by itself. [/b][/quote]
Well they didn&#39;t have anything tangible to back up their belief. No one really does.

[ChooseYourPoison]

Originally posted by superxero88+Jul 20 2004, 11:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (superxero88 @ Jul 20 2004, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Casey@Jul 20 2004, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 20 2004, 05:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM
Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do.
There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created.
Yes there was.

In my mind, simply saying "I don&#39;t believe in God" is a strong point by itself.
Well they didn&#39;t have anything tangible to back up their belief. No one really does. [/b][/quote]
no offence..but saying "There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created" and then "Well they didn&#39;t have anything tangible to back up their belief. No one really does." That&#39;s hypocricy, isn&#39;t it?

[F-ck Casey]

Originally posted by superxero88+Jul 20 2004, 06:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (superxero88 @ Jul 20 2004, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Casey@Jul 20 2004, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 20 2004, 05:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM
Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do.
There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created.
Yes there was.

In my mind, simply saying "I don&#39;t believe in God" is a strong point by itself.
Well they didn&#39;t have anything tangible to back up their belief. No one really does. [/b][/quote]
They shouldn&#39;t have to back up their beliefs. It&#39;s their belief and everyone should respect it. Same with Christians and other religions.

But as humans, we naturally question that of which we do not understand.

[TheVoodoo]

Originally posted by Casey+Jul 20 2004, 11:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Casey @ Jul 20 2004, 11:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 20 2004, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by -Casey@Jul 20 2004, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 20 2004, 05:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM
Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do.
There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created.
Yes there was.

In my mind, simply saying "I don&#39;t believe in God" is a strong point by itself.
Well they didn&#39;t have anything tangible to back up their belief. No one really does.
They shouldn&#39;t have to back up their beliefs. It&#39;s their belief and everyone should respect it. Same with Christians and other religions.

But as humans, we naturally question that of which we do not understand. [/b][/quote]
Well put Casey. I mean arguing about it isn&#39;t going to get someone to agree with you when they already believe in something and they usually will stand by it no matter what you say.

[rosanna]

Originally posted by superxero88+Jul 20 2004, 11:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (superxero88 @ Jul 20 2004, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Casey@Jul 20 2004, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by -superxero88@Jul 20 2004, 05:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--HybridMinoda@Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM
Atheists and those who believe in God have been at eachothers&#39; throats for years, and there will always be strong points from both sides and there&#39;s nothing we can do.
There weren&#39;t any strong points for atheism until science was created.
Yes there was.

In my mind, simply saying "I don&#39;t believe in God" is a strong point by itself.
Well they didn&#39;t have anything tangible to back up their belief. No one really does. [/b][/quote]
no one has any evidence to back up their belief. that is why it is called a belief.

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 23 2004, 03:12 PM

no one has any evidence to back up their belief. that is why it is called a belief.
true true

[rosanna]

wow katie, we seem to agree on a lot of things. :o that is so cool&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; hahahahahahaha totally...um....radical?&#33;( ewww....sooooo 1994~i am ashamed :blush: )

[TheVoodoo]

I believe in the Bible and that it is the truth. Now I&#39;m not going to argue with anyone about it or sit here and try to back it up against someone who just wants to squash my beliefs. But if someone just wanted to know more about what I believe then i would tell them. I respect all of your guys belief&#39;s. I just ask you respect mine and not say its wrong.

But hey thats just my stance on the whole issue.

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by TheVoodoo@Jul 23 2004, 11:46 PM
I believe in the Bible and that it is the truth. Now I&#39;m not going to argue with anyone about it or sit here and try to back it up against someone who just wants to squash my beliefs. But if someone just wanted to know more about what I believe then i would tell them. I respect all of your guys belief&#39;s. I just ask you respect mine and not say its wrong.

But hey thats just my stance on the whole issue.
dont worry, i doubt that anyone will attack you. you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. you dont need to prove anything because believing is about not having a proof. dont worry. ^_^
rosanne: indeed :lol:

[Leones]

Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 24 2004, 11:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 24 2004, 11:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheVoodoo@Jul 23 2004, 11:46 PM
I believe in the Bible and that it is the truth. Now I&#39;m not going to argue with anyone about it or sit here and try to back it up against someone who just wants to squash my beliefs. But if someone just wanted to know more about what I believe then i would tell them. I respect all of your guys belief&#39;s. I just ask you respect mine and not say its wrong.

But hey thats just my stance on the whole issue.
dont worry, i doubt that anyone will attack you. you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. you dont need to prove anything because believing is about not having a proof. dont worry. ^_^
rosanne: indeed :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah indeed, that&#39;s what&#39;s bothering me sometimes in discussions. People are trying to convince each other that the other is wrong. But a belief is a belief and everyone has to respect that. uhm, I think that is the reason that this is my first post in here :unsure:

[rosanna]

i agree with you guys.

my beliefs are my beliefs and i do not expect anyone to change that, no more than i expect to change anyone else&#39;s beliefs. i respect everyone&#39;s opinion and i am not going to hate you because you don&#39;t believe in the same thing i do.

and i hope no one hates me cuz i don&#39;t believe in the same thing they do. :wth:

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by rosanna1114@Jul 24 2004, 01:56 PM
i agree with you guys.

my beliefs are my beliefs and i do not expect anyone to change that, no more than i expect to change anyone else&#39;s beliefs. i respect everyone&#39;s opinion and i am not going to hate you because you don&#39;t believe in the same thing i do.

and i hope no one hates me cuz i don&#39;t believe in the same thing they do. :wth:
no no, i dont think we have people like that here. dont worry.
we can convince each other about facts, but we cant convince each other with beliefs - that would be like ruining someones personality just because you have a different one.

[rosanna]

Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 24 2004, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 24 2004, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 24 2004, 01:56 PM
i agree with you guys.

my beliefs are my beliefs and i do not expect anyone to change that, no more than i expect to change anyone else&#39;s beliefs. i respect everyone&#39;s opinion and i am not going to hate you because you don&#39;t believe in the same thing i do.

and i hope no one hates me cuz i don&#39;t believe in the same thing they do. :wth:
no no, i dont think we have people like that here. dont worry.
we can convince each other about facts, but we cant convince each other with beliefs - that would be like ruining someones personality just because you have a different one. [/b][/quote]
yeah i guess that makes sense. :)

[Mechanical Christ]

I got people all around me who kept indirectly and sometimes directly forcing me to be christian and i HATE IT. :angry:



Ok?&#33; You have your own beliefs, that&#39;s fine, we&#39;re minding our own business. YOU have your own religion, ok, YOU believe in it, don&#39;t try and make other people believe it too. Just believe in your own ####. You can believe in a Barbie Doll for all I care, just don&#39;t expect other people to follow. Same with any other religion, but at least Hinduism and Buddhism isn&#39;t so "forceful". I don&#39;t see my Buddhist and Hindu friends telling me to convert to THEIR religion. Just stay the f*ck away from me and go play with your own bullshit. I&#39;m sick of it.

[Link04]

Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 24 2004, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 24 2004, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rosanna1114@Jul 24 2004, 01:56 PM
i agree with you guys.

my beliefs are my beliefs and i do not expect anyone to change that, no more than i expect to change anyone else&#39;s beliefs. i respect everyone&#39;s opinion and i am not going to hate you because you don&#39;t believe in the same thing i do.

and i hope no one hates me cuz i don&#39;t believe in the same thing they do. :wth:
no no, i dont think we have people like that here. dont worry.
we can convince each other about facts, but we cant convince each other with beliefs - that would be like ruining someones personality just because you have a different one. [/b][/quote]
Hooray for truth&#33;

[o0Bahamut]

I joined this forum only to reply to this topic.

I am outraged at how you people think. I mean this is so funny. A guy saying " Oh yeah, god isn&#39;t real, the bible says all this stuff" Wow, did he do his research? NOPE. Do you know how many version of the bible there are? Weird people make different bibles. I&#39;m seroius, then there a satanic bible for people who are stupid and will be decieved.

I have to tell you people that I&#39;m catholic and I read the old testament and new testament. They are completely historical. And they dont say your going to hell for anything. There are many strange bibles out now. Which is probably what that guy was reading. But in a catholic, we believe. You choose where you want to go. You can choose gods way and go to heaven, where there is said to be peace and eternal life. Or you can go to hell, where the devil is, where he decieved everyone and we were punished for listening to him and that&#39;s why we&#39;re on earth. It&#39;s a test. I dont know about all you, but I&#39;m going to heaven. I mean come on, how can you like satan? How can you like someone who decieved everyone and makes people suffer. What is wrong with people out there? I&#39;m sorry, but you all have to open your eyes. Jesus does love you. He is there for you. It&#39;s not him that makes you have a bad life, it&#39;s other people doing things to you. What do you want him to do? Majicaly possess people to be nice? I&#39;m serious, you guys can ban this sn, but I just have to say this. The person who wrote that article was athiest. he has no religion because his parents told him "um, the universe was created by um, well, it just was. There is no god. Just um, it was created. We dont know how, it was um, the big bang. We dont know how that was made but oh well. Things just happen because they just do. No explanation" Listen, how can people still act like this? I&#39;m serious, I can disprove anything that you throw at me that you say is a problem in with god. Ask me a question, email me. I&#39;m tired of people out there acting like there&#39;s no god, or like god is the bad guy.

[The Doctor]

And you should know not to come here, blatently call some of us stupid, tell us were wrong and try to force your beliefs onto us. Basically what you came here to do is insult us because some believe something that you dont? Wow, thats real mature. Try to open your damn eyes and see that not everone believes what you believe. Its called human nature. Get used to it.

[o0Bahamut]

Hey nate, you know. I didnt&#39; force my beliefs on you. did I really say " THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND EVERYONE ELSE MUST BELIEVE" did I say that?

[The Doctor]

Well you need to chill the hell out. You just come on here and start blowing up needlessly about something because we dont all believe in something? The way you said things made it look like you were forcing it on us, which is something that we dont tolerate here.

[o0Bahamut]

Well the things you people say. No wonder I get mad. Sorry for trying to force my beliefs on you. But I was very enraged by that site and by how some of you out there think your right, when your so blinded by what your thinking.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 27 2004, 10:13 PM
Hey nate, you know. I didnt&#39; force my beliefs on you. did I really say " THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND EVERYONE ELSE MUST BELIEVE" did I say that?
You will be warned if you don&#39;t calm down, and stop being so antagonizing of other people who don&#39;t share your same beliefs. Of course some people don&#39;t agree with you, it&#39;s the point of a debate, if you don&#39;t like it then you shouldn&#39;t be debating.

So either calm down, or be warned for antagonizing people.

[The Doctor]

You have to consider it from our points of view. For the people that dont believe, some of the things that happen in the bible just seem so illogical that its unbelieveable. Most of these these things dont have any traces of proof, so what can we believe? And dont say we dont know what were talking about, because we do. Dont insult our intelligence.

[o0Bahamut]

The bible is a historical book. It was witnessed by people. It was written down. If you dont believe it happened, then your not believing in history? That&#39;s like saying "Oh well I mean, the civil war, it was so bloody, I dont believe it happened." Even though it was written down. Listen, I&#39;m calm now. I just got a little tense. But I&#39;m just saying, I wish some people could please think a little bit before coming to conclusions.

[The Doctor]

The things just arent logical though. Lets explain how the entire world gets repopulated after it was supposedly wiped out after the flood in Noah&#39;s Ark&#39;s story? It&#39;s just stories, thats all. Maybe occasional historical things, but mostly stories. Other things in history we have proof of, like the Civil War as you said.

[o0Bahamut]

Well, I dont htink the whole world was wiped out by the flood. But there is one thing. If you haven&#39;t watched TV, they&#39;ve supposedly found a giant ship high up in the mountains. I forget the location, I have to ask my parents again, they saw it. But they cant get near it for some reason. I forget the reason, I think it was either too hi in altitude, or like the helicopter would mess up. But I remember that they cant get to it for some reason. It could just be some ship up there, but still. It&#39;s very strange why a ship would be up so high and nobody can reach it.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 27 2004, 11:34 PM
Well, I dont htink the whole world was wiped out by the flood. But there is one thing. If you haven&#39;t watched TV, they&#39;ve supposedly found a giant ship high up in the mountains. I forget the location, I have to ask my parents again, they saw it. But they cant get near it for some reason. I forget the reason, I think it was either too hi in altitude, or like the helicopter would mess up. But I remember that they cant get to it for some reason. It could just be some ship up there, but still. It&#39;s very strange why a ship would be up so high and nobody can reach it.
But you have to understand, the ship was made of wood. Wood decays, especially if it is at high altitudes. If it was there for thousands of years, theyd be lucky to find anything intact.

[o0Bahamut]

Well then I&#39;m not sure. I know they found a ship up there though. And it could be a miracle why it&#39;s not decayed completely. Also, another miracle was when a priests body never decayed and I think people can view it. I forget, but I think I remember it&#39;s not decayed still.

[The Doctor]

The point is, the Bible is NOT historical. Like Will said, through time stories have been passed on, twisted, added on, and written down. Theres no physical proof to a lot of those stories, only word of mouth, which we all know is not always reliable.

[o0Bahamut]

No it was historical. They weren&#39;t just stories suddenly made up one day. Everyone witnessed what happened. It was finally written down one day. The bible is not 100% accurate. But it does say things that had happened. I mean, if these were made up, they would be like Brer Possum and Brer Rabbit. Stories for kids. But they&#39;re not made up. I mean, there&#39;s even proof that things happened. Do you want me to say the proof?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 27 2004, 11:43 PM
No it was historical. They weren&#39;t just stories suddenly made up one day. Everyone witnessed what happened. It was finally written down one day. The bible is not 100% accurate. But it does say things that had happened. I mean, if these were made up, they would be like Brer Possum and Brer Rabbit. Stories for kids. But they&#39;re not made up. I mean, there&#39;s even proof that things happened. Do you want me to say the proof?
People witnessed it? Can you prove that? Where was it written that it was witnessed? Also, witnesses can stretch the truth. Thats like me going around and saying I traveled Europe for a year and stayed in Spain. Its not true, somewhat believeable, but I could have someone with me playing along. Thats all there is.

[o0Bahamut]

Yes, people were not stupid back then. The bible wasn&#39;t made 1000 years after it happened. I&#39;m talking about the New Testament and Old Testament. Listen, it was a historical book that people witnessed. I am not sure but I think it was made by jesus&#39;s disciples. I have to find out from my parents. And even today, you see miracles happening. Yet people still dont believe in god when there is no logical explanation for stuff that happens.

[The Doctor]

Again, I would like proof that there were actually people seeing these things and NOT making stuff up. You cant prove that.

[o0Bahamut]

Ok, so your telling me. The Olympic games never happened? It was written down historicaly. But yet, nobody is around, hmmm I guess in your eyes, that never happened since there&#39;s nobody around from about 2000 years ago to tell you.

Basically what your saying to me is " I want proof of everything that&#39;s happened on earth or I dont believe in it." or your telling me " I want proof of only this, I trust in everything else but this"

[Kæton]

Reading your first post Bahamut... It&#39;s things like that that make me dislike religion so much... They get angered to the point of having to call us names no matter the circumstance... I mean we don&#39;t go to other religious forums and stuff and call them out and names... That was reaally inconsiderate. Anger or no anger, that was just really rude of you to down what we believe in like that.

Control your anger from not on.

Actually, come live in my world and then you can tell me I&#39;m wrong, that was so offensive to me.. Knowing NOTHING of our pasts and you tell us we&#39;re wrong...

...whatever, think of us lower than you because we&#39;re not like you, but I would hate to be God and see my followers disapproving others for having their own opinion, but then again, hey, I&#39;m wrong because I&#39;m not a Christian... Psh, whatever.

[Todd]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 27 2004, 10:16 PM
Well the things you people say. No wonder I get mad. Sorry for trying to force my beliefs on you. But I was very enraged by that site and by how some of you out there think your right, when your so blinded by what your thinking.
If the hypocracy police and hypocracy court of law existed, you&#39;d be serving a life sentence for that post.

You&#39;re so pissed off and enraged that us athiests think we&#39;re right, yet you think you and no one else is right. You&#39;re blinded by what you&#39;re thinking. It&#39;s wrong for us to think we&#39;re right but it&#39;s perfectly OK for you to think you&#39;re right? Bullshit.

[Mark]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 28 2004, 01:20 AM
Yes, people were not stupid back then. The bible wasn&#39;t made 1000 years after it happened. I&#39;m talking about the New Testament and Old Testament. Listen, it was a historical book that people witnessed. I am not sure but I think it was made by jesus&#39;s disciples. I have to find out from my parents. And even today, you see miracles happening. Yet people still dont believe in god when there is no logical explanation for stuff that happens.
I see how people progressivley became more stupid over the years. :rolleyes:

Miracles happen? People often tag things that make no sense to them as miracles. The fact that an event happened and that it makes no sense to a person doesn&#39;t not make it unexplicable. Medical conditions can be applied to pretty much everything. Hit me with something that&#39;s a "miracle" and I&#39;ll explain it. Chance happens. Miracles do not. It&#39;s simply a term that&#39;s poorly tagged onto certain events.

There&#39;s no proof that Jesus lived. I could write an incredibly popular fictional book about a man named James Kansas which explained things that people didn&#39;t understand and in 2000 years from now, that story would be so completely twisted and miscontrued that it&#39;d be nothing like it&#39;s predecessor.

[The Doctor]

The Olympic games have proof. All the ancient stadiums built.

And dont put words in my mouth. Im not saying that. Im saying that there is no real proof that these things happened and all of these things in the Bible are only by word of mouth. Its just like the internet. Not everything you read is true.

[o0Bahamut]

Keaton, I was simply angry. I&#39;ve calmed down. I was just really mad.

Todd, I&#39;m wondering why some of you people are thinking " Satan is good" and why some of you are thinking " There is no god, there&#39;s no explanation for why anything was created" I used blinded saying, to think a little more about what your saying. I mean just think about how anything was first created. From some gas in the universe that caused the big bang? (said in the article) Well then, where did that come from? People have there own beliefs, and I guess I wasn&#39;t respecting that. I&#39;m sorry for not respecting it. I understand what you were saying now.

Mark, there is proof. Haven&#39;t you seen the cloth from Jesus? With it bloodstained? and another one with his face imprinted on it? They were miracles. And the blood, dont say the carbon thing made it a fake. Because later I found it that they carbon dating thing was actually wrong, and they made an error.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 28 2004, 12:07 AM

Mark, there is proof. Haven&#39;t you seen the cloth from Jesus? With it bloodstained? and another one with his face imprinted on it? They were miracles. And the blood, dont say the carbon thing made it a fake. Because later I found it that they carbon dating thing was actually wrong, and they made an error.
That cloth could be from any number of things&#33; For all you know it couldve been some random guy that was sick and put the cloth on his face and coughed up blood. Does anyone have a blood sample of Jesus to compare? No.

[o0Bahamut]

Do you realize how much blood was on that cloth? probably not with the post you just said.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 28 2004, 12:10 AM
Do you realize how much blood was on that cloth? probably not with the post you just said.
Again with insulting my intelligence. READ MY POST. I said it could be from anything. A bloodstain on a cloth is not a miracle, its common.

[Derek The Infamous]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 27 2004, 11:10 PM
Do you realize how much blood was on that cloth? probably not with the post you just said.
That post made absolutely no sense and has no contribution to the arguement at hand. I could cut myself and coat a cloth in blood right now if I wanted to....doesnt mean I&#39;m Jesus Christ himself because I bled all over a damn cloth.

[o0Bahamut]

Nate, ok this is the story I learned. The cloth from jesus was supposedly taken away but then later on someone came and said it was the cloth from him. After YEARS AND YEARS, finally techonolgiy came out to see if it was true, and at first, the blood hadn&#39;t dated back to jesus. But then, an error was found. I dont know the rest of the full story though.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 28 2004, 12:13 AM
Nate, ok this is the story I learned. The cloth from jesus was supposedly taken away but then later on someone came and said it was the cloth from him. After YEARS AND YEARS, finally techonolgiy came out to see if it was true, and at first, the blood hadn&#39;t dated back to jesus. But then, an error was found. I dont know the rest of the full story though.
And yet again, you said the magic phrase. "Someone said." That means I can go out and get a bloody cloth, say its Jesus&#39;s blood and that makes it true?

[Todd]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 27 2004, 11:13 PM
Nate, ok this is the story I learned. The cloth from jesus was supposedly taken away but then later on someone came and said it was the cloth from him. After YEARS AND YEARS, finally techonolgiy came out to see if it was true, and at first, the blood hadn&#39;t dated back to jesus. But then, an error was found. I dont know the rest of the full story though.
blood dated back to jesus....maybe so. could have been jesus, could have been one of the other millions of people living on earth that time. and unless they want to find and dig up his corpse to do a DNA test, then theres no way to prove it was him.

[o0Bahamut]

I dont know the full name is why lol.

And also, the blood was an exact replica of his body. I have seen it, I have actually seen it on tv and seen what it looks like while scientists were trying to figure out when it was dated back to and everything.

[Todd]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 27 2004, 11:15 PM
I dont know the full name is why lol.

And also, the blood was an exact replica of his body. I have seen it, I have actually seen it on tv and seen what it looks like while scientists were trying to figure out when it was dated back to and everything.
exact replica? :lol: so I would like to meet the scientist living today who was also alive way back then to look at jesus&#39;s body, the blood and say its an exact match

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 28 2004, 12:15 AM
I dont know the full name is why lol.

And also, the blood was an exact replica of his body. I have seen it, I have actually seen it on tv and seen what it looks like while scientists were trying to figure out when it was dated back to and everything.
You just dont understand that just because someone says that it is something, it doesnt make it true. Still, no one has any pieces of blood, skin, anything to compare it to, so it is just like a John Doe case.

[o0Bahamut]

Listen, I&#39;m gonna make this my last post. To first of all, end this debate. Second, I&#39;m tired and wanna go to bed. And last, all I keep hearing from everyone is basically " I WANT FULL PROOF OR I WONT BELIEVE ONE THING"

So anyway, lemme just tell all of you, that it wasn&#39;t an exact replica, and it never says in the bible what he looks like. But we got an image though from it and that&#39;s how we though. But how do we know it was him? Well for once, there was a mark where he was stabbed in the bible right in the spot. You can also see the marks I think (I can&#39;t remember all of the video, it was very long) where his arms were onto the cross and everything. And the crown too. And dont come saying " Well uhh ummm I can just make my body real bloody and put those exact marks right there at the exact place to just make it all up" because that would be extremely difficult and would make no sense for someone to show all that blood stained on there.

Well this ends my last post, some of you maybe be saying "yay he&#39;s done" some may be saying "finally" but oh well. I just said what I thought. And I respect now what you think since I was acting a bit selfish in other posts. Anyway, think what you want, I&#39;m done, goodnight everyone lol

[The Doctor]

Because you know its definitely impossible to mark a cloth with blood in convenient locations. Just look, everything you say just completely contradicts everything else.

[Kæton]

I have no problem with religion, to me, whoop-dee-doo, so you found some clothes from Jesus, jump for freaking jumping jacks, but just because you got blood on a piece of cloth means it&#39;s right to degrade us.

This debate won&#39;t close because you say so. Not only that, you tell us to believe something and go by off-hand refrences where as us, we go by stated and documentated files of proof.

Anyways, yeah, leave with one last word of insulting us AGAIN... Whatever. And again, you don&#39;t know us so telling us we&#39;re wrong and everything is totally dumb and again, if I was your God, I&#39;d send all those who thought differently of others because they didn&#39;t think the same to hell for being so inconsiderate.

[Mark]

Originally posted by o0Bahamut@Jul 28 2004, 01:37 AM
Keaton, I was simply angry. I&#39;ve calmed down. I was just really mad.

Todd, I&#39;m wondering why some of you people are thinking " Satan is good" and why some of you are thinking " There is no god, there&#39;s no explanation for why anything was created" I used blinded saying, to think a little more about what your saying. I mean just think about how anything was first created. From some gas in the universe that caused the big bang? (said in the article) Well then, where did that come from? People have there own beliefs, and I guess I wasn&#39;t respecting that. I&#39;m sorry for not respecting it. I understand what you were saying now.

Mark, there is proof. Haven&#39;t you seen the cloth from Jesus? With it bloodstained? and another one with his face imprinted on it? They were miracles. And the blood, dont say the carbon thing made it a fake. Because later I found it that they carbon dating thing was actually wrong, and they made an error.
Oh man, you are foolish.

Regarding your response to Todd; the fact that he doesn&#39;t believe in god doesn&#39;t not make him a satan worshipper, you dolt.

Oh yes, blood on a cloth. Really miraculous. And cloth with a likeness to his face; the apocalypse is near&#33; Clouds look like things all the time. It&#39;s just the way they&#39;re formed. Just like with this cloth. And as for this blood on a cloth, where&#39;s the DNA evidence? Why not just take the cloth and put a swab to it? Oh, that&#39;s right, because nobody has DNA from Jesus to cross-reference it. That could be blood from anyone.

[Mechanical Christ]

Where would this thing be without Mark and Will. :lol:

Edit : and Nate.


There are many Christians around me, and I find they like to go round converting people into Christianity.






What the heck is that all about?



If you believe in Christianity, fine, but don&#39;t expect others to as well. Let them be what they want to be right? But no. Have to get one more follower. Then I can win the Converter of the Year award. I don&#39;t thing other Christians are like that (I jolly well hope not&#33;), but i find that those Christians I know are forever doing that. I don&#39;t see a Buddhist coming up to me on the streets saying, "hey, wanna be buddhist? Then you can be enlightened bla blah blah and find the Way" No. I don&#39;t. It&#39;s pretty much if-you-want-to-believe-then-you&#39;re-welcome kind of thing.

So. Stop that ####. We don&#39;t need it. Stick with your own faith and don&#39;t try to get more followers.

[ass_kicker]

Originally posted by UndeadSpectre@Jul 28 2004, 08:54 AM
There are many Christians around me, and I find they like to go round converting people into Christianity.

i understand how frustrating that can be. im a christian myself and my friends are atheists... so my parents want me to change them into christians. but ill never ever even try that, everybody has the right to believe iun whatever the f*ck they want to, you know? maybe there is no god after all and all of the atheists are right. who am i to tell them theyre wrong?
so i agree with you, undead, even though im christian myself.

[Will]

One thing that really gets on my nerves about Christians is how, when you tell them you don&#39;t believe in God, they automatically pin you as a worshipper of Satan. They&#39;re all the same&#33; That&#39;s why I hate religion so much. They&#39;re all so blinded by this book as fictional as Moby Dick that they have no idea that what they&#39;re saying is so ridiculously foolish that it&#39;s unbelievable. No pun intended.

[Maëlle]

You know, we have amazing fiction writer today and I think they had too 2000 years back. So my theory of &#39;&#39;bored teens wrote the bible&#39;&#39; has evoluated to &#39;&#39;fiction writers wrote the bible&#39;&#39;


That&#39;s it.








(And as always, I stick with the evolution theory&#33; Darwin is The God&#33; :P )

[User Name]

Originally posted by Will@Jul 28 2004, 03:27 AM
they automatically pin you as a worshipper of Satan. They&#39;re all the same&#33;
That&#39;s a bunch of precognated bullshit, Will, and you know it.

[Will]

Originally posted by Cameron+Jul 28 2004, 02:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cameron @ Jul 28 2004, 02:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jul 28 2004, 03:27 AM
they automatically pin you as a worshipper of Satan. They&#39;re all the same&#33;
That&#39;s a bunch of precognated bullshit, Will, and you know it. [/b][/quote]
These words should never be taken literally when I use them:

All, always, never, most, etc.

[User Name]

Right, and I would have known this... how, exactly?

[Will]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 28 2004, 06:34 PM
Right, and I would have known this... how, exactly?
Why are you getting on my case? You blew up on me, I answered politely and you&#39;re still being an ass. What&#39;s your problem?

[User Name]

Will, you stereotyped a group that I just so happen to belong to. You basically accused me of pinning everyone who doesn&#39;t believe in my religion a Satan worshipper. I&#39;m not like that at all, so all I&#39;m asking of you is take some consideration into what you say, alright? You can&#39;t always assume that I&#39;ll always know what you mean by using some specific words, because I don&#39;t.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 28 2004, 09:17 PM
Will, you stereotyped a group that I just so happen to belong to. You basically accused me of pinning everyone who doesn&#39;t believe in my religion a Satan worshipper. I&#39;m not like that at all, so all I&#39;m asking of you is take some consideration into what you say, alright? You can&#39;t always assume that I&#39;ll always know what you mean by using some specific words, because I don&#39;t.
Chill, he already said it was his mistake to use those words. He used the wrong words to say what he had meant to say. Don&#39;t overreact, he apologizes.

[Link04]

Originally posted by Cameron@Jul 28 2004, 11:47 PM
Will, you stereotyped a group that I just so happen to belong to. You basically accused me of pinning everyone who doesn&#39;t believe in my religion a Satan worshipper. I&#39;m not like that at all, so all I&#39;m asking of you is take some consideration into what you say, alright? You can&#39;t always assume that I&#39;ll always know what you mean by using some specific words, because I don&#39;t.
He&#39;s right. And that&#39;s exactly how I feel; I&#39;m a Christian, and I have NEVER accused or judged anyone as a Satan worshipper. If you don&#39;t mean what you say when you say "always, never, most, ect." then maybe you shouldn&#39;t say it at all. It&#39;s just being left open to be taken the wrong way.

[Will]

Holy crap. I made a mistake. GET OFF MY CASE ALREADY.

[Link04]

Heh, relax, Will. No one&#39;s holding a knife to your throat :rolleyes: we&#39;re just pointing something out. You saw your mistake, good, it&#39;s over: let&#39;s continue discussion.

[Kæton]

He realized his mistake before you posted... You didn&#39;t have to make Will feel even more guilty :rolleyes:.

[Link04]

How could I pass up the chance? :P :shifty:

[Will]

Originally posted by Link04@Jul 28 2004, 08:14 PM
How could I pass up the chance? :P :shifty:
Knock it off. I don&#39;t want to have to warn you for antagonizing me. I made a mistake, drop it. Now.

[Link04]

As you wish.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Link04@Jul 28 2004, 10:44 PM
How could I pass up the chance? :P :shifty:
I&#39;ve had enough of your cocky and condescending swagger all over the forums. Knock it off. Now.

[Rachel]

Uhm... just to go mildly off topic, but... what do you all think of that Lilith chick?

For those who don&#39;t know, Lilith is in the Kabbalah, a Jewish mysticism book...

Apparently, she was the first wife of Adam and got evicted from Eden because she wanted to be on top (I am dead serious... :lol: ) and then God made Eve...


What do you all think about that?

I believe it, but thats because I do read the Kabbalah and have decided to learn more about my religion&#39;s mysticism...


In Jewish traditions, Lilith was created with Adam from the dust of the earth, & became his first wife. She was stubborn, though, & refused to be subservient to her husband. Instead of becoming Adam&#39;s servant, she left him & was turned out of Paradise. However, before God created Eve, He sent 3 angels to try to convince Lilith to return to Adam. She refused, & God cursed her by sentencing 100 of her offspring to die each day. After her expulsion from Paradise, however, she slept once more with Adam, & bore the Shedim, Lilin, & Rauchin. The Alphabet of Ben Sira contains the first cohesive story of this. This text is dated somewhere between the 8th & 10th cent. CE, and its place within Jewish midrash has been debated.

Soon afterward the young son of the king took ill, Said Nebuchadnezzar, "Heal my son. If you don&#39;t, I will kill you." Ben Sira immediately sat down and wrote an amulet with the Holy Name, and he inscribed on it the angels in charge of medicine by their names, forms and images, and by their wings, hands, and feet. Nebuchadnezzar looked at the amulet. "Who are these?"

"The angles who are in charge of medicine: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof. After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, &#39;It is not good for man to be alone&#39; (Gen. 2:18). He then created a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith began to fight. She said, &#39;I will not lie below,&#39; and he said, &#39;I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while am to be in the superior one.&#39; Lilith responded, &#39;We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.&#39; But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air. Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: &#39;Sovereign of the universe&#33;&#39; he said, &#39;the woman you gave me has run away.&#39; At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angles to bring her back.

"Said the Holy One to Adam, &#39;If she agrees to come back, fine. If not she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.&#39; The angels left God and pursued Lilith, whom they overtook in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians were destined to drown. They told her God&#39;s word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, &#39;We shall drown you in the sea.&#39;

"&#39;Leave me&#33;&#39; she said. &#39;I was created only to cause sickness to infants. If the infant is male, I have dominion over him for eight days after his birth, and if female, for twenty days.&#39;

"When the angels heard Lilith&#39;s words, they insisted she go back. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God: &#39;Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.&#39; She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day. Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write the angels&#39; names on the amulets of young children. When Lilith sees their names, she remembers her oath, and the child recovers."

- The Alphabet of Ben Sira Question #5 (23a-b)

The Lilin that they speak about are the Succubae... as in Incubi and Succubae...

Yeah...what&#39;s your opinion on that?


Now I at least know why it&#39;s called Lilith Faire...

[Mechanical Christ]

After reading the unitalicized paragraph the first thing I thought was "Go Lilith." :lol:

[withnoapologies]

im a Christian, and i DO NOT think that atheiest are Satanists or do i try to convert them. i let them live their life, and i let myself live mine. as for my religion. i choose to believe. there, i said my piece. and to let you know, i can not wait for the World Religions course i have to take in grade 11, with the course, i can learn about other religions, and choose the one that is right for me... my great grandfather was a minister in the anglican religion, but im a catholic, you choose your own religion, or choose not to have a religion.... i dunno, maybe i will become an atheiest if i dont like any religions.... or maybe make up my own?.... it could work.

[The Doctor]

Or you could, you know, not dig up old threads.