PDA

View Full Version : Father of Executed American Blasts Bush, Media



Omar A
06-29-2004, 06:37 PM
LONDON (Reuters) - The father of an American civilian beheaded in Iraq (news - web sites) accused President Bush (news - web sites) and the U.S. media Tuesday of ignoring the "horrible face of war."


"People like George Bush and (U.S. Defense Secretary) Donald Rumsfeld (news - web sites) don't see the pain that people have to bear -- they don't know what it feels like to have your guts ripped out," Michael Berg told a news conference.


The decapitated body of Berg's son Nick was found by a roadside in Baghdad and a grisly video of his beheading was posted on an Islamist Web site in May.


"What I'm trying to do is show to the American people and the British people ... that war has a wretchedly horrible face," said Berg's father.


The elder Berg was in London to speak at a demonstration against the foreign troop presence in Iraq Wednesday, which had been scheduled to coincide with the planned U.S. transfer of power to the Iraqi people.


Nick Berg, 26, traveled to Iraq several times looking for work in the reconstruction effort before going missing on April 9.


"He thought he was supporting the Iraqi people and the Bush administration by going over there, not with a gun but with his engineering tools," Michael Berg said.


Bush and the American media have ignored the "true horrors," added Berg senior, who has blamed Bush and Rumsfeld for his son's death in previous interviews. He said he believed anti-war sentiment was now very strong in the United States.


"There are 11,000 plus Iraqi citizens that are dead and each one's family is as affected as I was, but the American media doesn't cover these people. It doesn't cover the people who are suffering the most."


Nick Berg was one of dozens of foreigners kidnapped in early April as U.S. forces launched an offensive on the restive city of Falluja, west of Baghdad.


He was believed to have been beheaded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, an al Qaeda supporter.


Since his death, militants have also beheaded U.S. hostage Paul Johnson in Saudi Arabia and South Korean Kim Sun-il in Iraq. All three men were videotaped wearing orange jump suits similar to those worn by prisoners in U.S. detention facilities like Guantanamo Bay.


"This is not a game that people in Washington get to play," Michael Berg said. "It affects people the way it's affected me and my family and the families of Paul Johnson, Kim Sun-il and the thousands of Iraqis."


"Observing someone's pain just makes you think just how can they (Bush and Blair) possibly do this. There isn't enough money in the world that could ever make this worthwhile."

SOURCE (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=4&u=/nm/20040629/ts_nm/iraq_britain_berg_dc)

Will
06-29-2004, 06:45 PM
No offense, but does he expect two warring parties to hand baskets of candy to each other? I mean, this war is unjustified, for sure, but people are going to die. He went to Iraq knowing that he could die, and he did.

Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture here, but I hate how the media makes it seem like these couple deaths we have every once in a while is such a big deal. We lost over five million total people in one battle during the Revolutionary War at Gettysburg, so losing one person every once in a while is not that big a deal.

Or maybe I'm a sadist.

erasethepain
06-30-2004, 03:49 AM
This is not a game that people in Washington get to play

Amen to that.

Isn't it kind of funny that the people making the decisions do not have to suffer the slightest? The Goverment doesn't give a #### if people suffer... and why should they? They get what they want and that's all that matters.

enfestid
06-30-2004, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by Will@Jun 29 2004, 06:45 PM
No offense, but does he expect two warring parties to hand baskets of candy to each other? I mean, this war is unjustified, for sure, but people are going to die. He went to Iraq knowing that he could die, and he did.

Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture here, but I hate how the media makes it seem like these couple deaths we have every once in a while is such a big deal. We lost over five million total people in one battle during the Revolutionary War at Gettysburg, so losing one person every once in a while is not that big a deal.

Or maybe I'm a sadist.
Actually, you're completely right.

Berg knew he needed to get out. He didn't get out in time when he had the chance -- the freaking FBI offered to get him out. They even said chances are he'd be taken hostage... but he refused.

Considering the Bush administration provided Berg a high-profit job and he lept at the chance, I'm not sure what his father is complaining about. I don't agree with everything Bush does (despite me wanting him over Kerry in the election), but he gave Berg a nice job and tried to get him escorted out of Iraq... what exactly did he do wrong (in this situation) again?

Omar A
06-30-2004, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by enfestid+Jun 29 2004, 11:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (enfestid @ Jun 29 2004, 11:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jun 29 2004, 06:45 PM
No offense, but does he expect two warring parties to hand baskets of candy to each other? I mean, this war is unjustified, for sure, but people are going to die. He went to Iraq knowing that he could die, and he did.

Maybe I&#39;m not seeing the big picture here, but I hate how the media makes it seem like these couple deaths we have every once in a while is such a big deal. We lost over five million total people in one battle during the Revolutionary War at Gettysburg, so losing one person every once in a while is not that big a deal.

Or maybe I&#39;m a sadist.
Actually, you&#39;re completely right.

Berg knew he needed to get out. He didn&#39;t get out in time when he had the chance -- the freaking FBI offered to get him out. They even said chances are he&#39;d be taken hostage... but he refused.

Considering the Bush administration provided Berg a high-profit job and he lept at the chance, I&#39;m not sure what his father is complaining about. I don&#39;t agree with everything Bush does (despite me wanting him over Kerry in the election), but he gave Berg a nice job and tried to get him escorted out of Iraq... what exactly did he do wrong (in this situation) again? [/b][/quote]
Do you actually believe that they wanted to escort Berg out of Iraq? Thats just a lie to cover themselves. If they really wanted to escort him out, than why wouldn&#39;t they escort the rest of the american that are in Iraq right now?

And Will, I&#39;m sure if you see someone you know very close gets his head cut off, you&#39;ll be pissed

enfestid
06-30-2004, 05:40 AM
You do realize that his family has said he was offered out by the FBI?

Some lie :rolleyes:

And, yes, they tried to escort most of the Americans that were not involved with the military or security out.

Omar A
06-30-2004, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 12:40 AM
You do realize that his family has said he was offered out by the FBI?

Some lie :rolleyes:

And, yes, they tried to escort most of the Americans that were not involved with the military or security out.
And how the #### does his family know? They probably know because the FBI told them.

Will
06-30-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Omar A@Jun 29 2004, 11:09 PM
And Will, I&#39;m sure if you see someone you know very close gets his head cut off, you&#39;ll be pissed
Oh, of course I&#39;d be mad. I&#39;d be mad for sure. But I&#39;d deal with it because it&#39;s war. People die in wars. It&#39;s a fact of life.

Derek
06-30-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Will@Jun 30 2004, 08:03 AM
People die in wars. It&#39;s a fact of life.
Thank you Will. I hate to be heartless but reading the first post I got annoyed by the father going "OH WAR IS UGLY". Of course it is, why does he think almost every American has a problem with it?

ass_kicker
06-30-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Derek+Jun 30 2004, 01:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Derek @ Jun 30 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Will@Jun 30 2004, 08:03 AM
People die in wars. It&#39;s a fact of life.
Thank you Will. I hate to be heartless but reading the first post I got annoyed by the father going "OH WAR IS UGLY". Of course it is, why does he think almost every American has a problem with it? [/b][/quote]
im with will/derek. i mean OBVIOUSLY people die in wars. the dude that got beheaded was unlucky, and of course we should feel sympathy for his family. but we&#39;re talking war here. s*it happens you know?

enfestid
06-30-2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Omar A+Jun 30 2004, 05:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Omar A @ Jun 30 2004, 05:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 12:40 AM
You do realize that his family has said he was offered out by the FBI?

Some lie :rolleyes:

And, yes, they tried to escort most of the Americans that were not involved with the military or security out.
And how the #### does his family know? They probably know because the FBI told them. [/b][/quote]
Because their song, Michael Berg, the guy who was beheaded, called them and told them that he was going home on his own after the FBI called him. They have said this in interviews.

Mark
06-30-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by enfestid+Jun 30 2004, 01:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (enfestid @ Jun 30 2004, 01:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Omar A@Jun 30 2004, 05:47 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 12:40 AM
You do realize that his family has said he was offered out by the FBI?

Some lie :rolleyes:

And, yes, they tried to escort most of the Americans that were not involved with the military or security out.
And how the #### does his family know? They probably know because the FBI told them.
Because their song, Michael Berg, the guy who was beheaded, called them and told them that he was going home on his own after the FBI called him. They have said this in interviews. [/b][/quote]
Nick Berg. ;)

enfestid
06-30-2004, 06:14 PM
My fault, got the father and son&#39;s names mixed up.

Danielle
06-30-2004, 07:47 PM
I agree with Will,Derek and Ass-Kicker you can&#39;t expect to go to war and for people not to get killed. I still don&#39;t like wars because innocent people get killed but then.. are these people innocent because they may have killed someone else whilst fighing a war? :wth:

Mark
06-30-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by bustedsuck88@Jun 30 2004, 05:17 PM
I agree with Will,Derek and Ass-Kicker you can&#39;t expect to go to war and for people not to get killed. I still don&#39;t like wars because innocent people get killed but then.. are these people innocent because they may have killed someone else whilst fighing a war? :wth:
Nick Berg was a tourist, not a soldier.

Will
06-30-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Mark+Jun 30 2004, 05:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jun 30 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bustedsuck88@Jun 30 2004, 05:17 PM
I agree with Will,Derek and Ass-Kicker you can&#39;t expect to go to war and for people not to get killed. I still don&#39;t like wars because innocent people get killed but then.. are these people innocent because they may have killed someone else whilst fighing a war? :wth:
Nick Berg was a tourist, not a soldier. [/b][/quote]
He was an independent contractor.

enfestid
06-30-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Mark+Jun 30 2004, 10:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jun 30 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bustedsuck88@Jun 30 2004, 05:17 PM
I agree with Will,Derek and Ass-Kicker you can&#39;t expect to go to war and for people not to get killed. I still don&#39;t like wars because innocent people get killed but then.. are these people innocent because they may have killed someone else whilst fighing a war? :wth:
Nick Berg was a tourist, not a soldier. [/b][/quote]
No he wasn&#39;t... as Will said, he was contracted by the government. I believe he was in the technology field (telecommunications, I want to say, but I could be wrong). He got paid quite a nice fee to be there, too.


No offense to Iraq (or you), but who would tour Iraq right now? :lol:

Glenn
07-01-2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it? If he did, then the media is making the image that the Iraqis are killing people that are trying to help them. If he didn&#39;t, then it is just another noted death.

I agree with some of you and yes, people are going to die but parents at home are going to feel very angry and saddened when their sons die and some, like this case, are going to complain. I&#39;m also glad that the father is doing this to show an anti-war view to Bush

Mark
07-01-2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by enfestid+Jun 30 2004, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (enfestid @ Jun 30 2004, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jun 30 2004, 10:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--bustedsuck88@Jun 30 2004, 05:17 PM
I agree with Will,Derek and Ass-Kicker you can&#39;t expect to go to war and for people not to get killed. I still don&#39;t like wars because innocent people get killed but then.. are these people innocent because they may have killed someone else whilst fighing a war? :wth:
Nick Berg was a tourist, not a soldier.
No he wasn&#39;t... as Will said, he was contracted by the government. I believe he was in the technology field (telecommunications, I want to say, but I could be wrong). He got paid quite a nice fee to be there, too.


No offense to Iraq (or you), but who would tour Iraq right now? :lol: [/b][/quote]
He was in Iraq looking for electrical contracting work to build radio towers for Iraqis. You know, the ones destroyed by American bombs. Tourist may not have been the right status to give him, but he was not a soldier, as I said.

This is somewhat related, but; 50 Fishy Circumstances of Nick Berg&#39;s decapitation video. (http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/15/22827/0477)

At least 5 of them are unfounded, but there&#39;s 45 there.

Edit: This too: Fishy circumstances and flawed timelines of surround American&#39;s beheading (http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_7655.shtml)

enfestid
07-01-2004, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet.

Mark
07-01-2004, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by enfestid+Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (enfestid @ Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet. [/b][/quote]
And I doubt any media outlet will ever play up the story that maybe Iraqis didn&#39;t do it.

Glenn
07-01-2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Mark+Jun 30 2004, 07:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jun 30 2004, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet.
And I doubt any media outlet will ever play up the story that maybe Iraqis didn&#39;t do it. [/b][/quote]
That day will come when I can hear normally

(I have a hearing problem and won&#39;t be able to hear regularly for the rest of my life)

:lol:

Mark
07-01-2004, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by SaxopianoGRD+Jun 30 2004, 10:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SaxopianoGRD @ Jun 30 2004, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jun 30 2004, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by -enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet.
And I doubt any media outlet will ever play up the story that maybe Iraqis didn&#39;t do it.
(I have a hearing problem and won&#39;t be able to hear regularly for the rest of my life) [/b][/quote]
It&#39;s a good thing you added that part, I was lost. :lol:

enfestid
07-01-2004, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by Mark+Jul 1 2004, 12:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jul 1 2004, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet.
And I doubt any media outlet will ever play up the story that maybe Iraqis didn&#39;t do it. [/b][/quote]
Of course not, considering there is no proof otherwise. There is evidence that Iraqis killed him. What more do you want? Post all the conspiracy theories you like...

Mark
07-01-2004, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by enfestid+Jul 1 2004, 02:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (enfestid @ Jul 1 2004, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jul 1 2004, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by -enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet.
And I doubt any media outlet will ever play up the story that maybe Iraqis didn&#39;t do it.
Of course not, considering there is no proof otherwise. There is evidence that Iraqis killed him. What more do you want? Post all the conspiracy theories you like... [/b][/quote]
Have you seen the video? And the terrorists with gold rings and air jordan sneakers? And the fact that no blood comes gushing out of his neck when the knife goes through it?

Omar A
07-01-2004, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by Will+Jun 30 2004, 05:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Will @ Jun 30 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jun 30 2004, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--bustedsuck88@Jun 30 2004, 05:17 PM
I agree with Will,Derek and Ass-Kicker you can&#39;t expect to go to war and for people not to get killed. I still don&#39;t like wars because innocent people get killed but then.. are these people innocent because they may have killed someone else whilst fighing a war? :wth:
Nick Berg was a tourist, not a soldier.
He was an independent contractor. [/b][/quote]
He was a spy...

I&#39;ll find the link to where it said that :mellow:

EDIT: The Link (http://www.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=39441&cat=Entertainment)

ass_kicker
07-01-2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Mark+Jul 1 2004, 04:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mark @ Jul 1 2004, 04:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -enfestid@Jul 1 2004, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by -Mark@Jul 1 2004, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by -enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet.
And I doubt any media outlet will ever play up the story that maybe Iraqis didn&#39;t do it.
Of course not, considering there is no proof otherwise. There is evidence that Iraqis killed him. What more do you want? Post all the conspiracy theories you like...
Have you seen the video? And the terrorists with gold rings and air jordan sneakers? And the fact that no blood comes gushing out of his neck when the knife goes through it? [/b][/quote]
but he&#39;s dead, aint he? then the video must be real. maybe he had some neck problems... ok i dont really believe in that, but hey, we never know. :mellow:

Will
07-01-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by ass_kicker+Jul 1 2004, 03:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ass_kicker @ Jul 1 2004, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Mark@Jul 1 2004, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by -enfestid@Jul 1 2004, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by -Mark@Jul 1 2004, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by -enfestid@Jun 30 2004, 10:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SaxopianoGRD@Jul 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Well didn&#39;t he go to Iraq to rebuild it?
Yep.

I&#39;m surprised the media hasn&#39;t played the role you mentioned, actually -- blaming the Iraqis for attacking people trying to help. Very few have done so yet.
And I doubt any media outlet will ever play up the story that maybe Iraqis didn&#39;t do it.
Of course not, considering there is no proof otherwise. There is evidence that Iraqis killed him. What more do you want? Post all the conspiracy theories you like...
Have you seen the video? And the terrorists with gold rings and air jordan sneakers? And the fact that no blood comes gushing out of his neck when the knife goes through it?
but he&#39;s dead, aint he? then the video must be real. maybe he had some neck problems... ok i dont really believe in that, but hey, we never know. :mellow: [/b][/quote]
Oh, yeah. Because we all know that everyone with neck problems don&#39;t bleed when their heads are cut off. :rolleyes:

enfestid
07-01-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Mark@Jul 1 2004, 04:58 AM
Have you seen the video? And the terrorists with gold rings and air jordan sneakers? And the fact that no blood comes gushing out of his neck when the knife goes through it?
Terrorists aren&#39;t allowed to have gold rings? Hate to dissapoint you, but Osama Bin Laden is one rich S.O.B. and I think he has his fair share of gold rings. So what if they had Air Jordans? Are you trying to imply that it was American Secret Service or soldiers? Well, for one, no soldiers would be allowed to have Air Jordans, let alone the Secret Service. Two, American merchandise is huge in foreign nations (yes, even in the Middle East area), even if they don&#39;t like our foreign policy or government.

The fact that no blood comes gushing through his neck is because the vein endings were clamped off. I had a friend just last year who cut two or three of his toes off (honestly... they were sewn back on, though) with a box mower (not the exact name, but the name elludes me now... it&#39;s this thing that you attach to a tractor and is extremely heavy... used to flatten grass and wheat) and they never bled because it clamped the blood vessel endings off. No offense, but if blood started gushing everywhere then I think people would be more curious as to why the blood was gushing instead of no blood at all.

Omar A
07-01-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by enfestid+Jul 1 2004, 10:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (enfestid @ Jul 1 2004, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 1 2004, 04:58 AM
Have you seen the video? And the terrorists with gold rings and air jordan sneakers? And the fact that no blood comes gushing out of his neck when the knife goes through it?
Terrorists aren&#39;t allowed to have gold rings? Hate to dissapoint you, but Osama Bin Laden is one rich S.O.B. and I think he has his fair share of gold rings. So what if they had Air Jordans? Are you trying to imply that it was American Secret Service or soldiers? Well, for one, no soldiers would be allowed to have Air Jordans, let alone the Secret Service. Two, American merchandise is huge in foreign nations (yes, even in the Middle East area), even if they don&#39;t like our foreign policy or government.
[/b][/quote]
Muslim men aren&#39;t allowed to wear gold on them :rolleyes: . And I don&#39;t think the Jihad groups who hate the American Government so much will wear things that comes from them.

Will
07-01-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by enfestid@Jul 1 2004, 10:42 AM
Terrorists aren&#39;t allowed to have gold rings? Hate to dissapoint you, but Osama Bin Laden is one rich S.O.B. and I think he has his fair share of gold rings. So what if they had Air Jordans? Are you trying to imply that it was American Secret Service or soldiers? Well, for one, no soldiers would be allowed to have Air Jordans, let alone the Secret Service. Two, American merchandise is huge in foreign nations (yes, even in the Middle East area), even if they don&#39;t like our foreign policy or government.
They are against Western Culture, though. Why would an extremist terrorist group be wearing things that show off Western Culture? I really doubt they&#39;re hypocrits.

enfestid
07-01-2004, 04:29 PM
This isn&#39;t the same terrorist group as Al Queda or anything of that ilk, though. This really is only a terrorist in the definition of the world because of this beheading, they&#39;re more of insurgents since they just want America out of Iraq.


Originally posted by Omar A+Jul 1 2004, 03:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Omar A @ Jul 1 2004, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -enfestid@Jul 1 2004, 10:42 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mark@Jul 1 2004, 04:58 AM
Have you seen the video? And the terrorists with gold rings and air jordan sneakers? And the fact that no blood comes gushing out of his neck when the knife goes through it?
Terrorists aren&#39;t allowed to have gold rings? Hate to dissapoint you, but Osama Bin Laden is one rich S.O.B. and I think he has his fair share of gold rings. So what if they had Air Jordans? Are you trying to imply that it was American Secret Service or soldiers? Well, for one, no soldiers would be allowed to have Air Jordans, let alone the Secret Service. Two, American merchandise is huge in foreign nations (yes, even in the Middle East area), even if they don&#39;t like our foreign policy or government.

Muslim men aren&#39;t allowed to wear gold on them :rolleyes: . And I don&#39;t think the Jihad groups who hate the American Government so much will wear things that comes from them. [/b][/quote]
Since when was everyone in Iraq muslim? :rolleyes: Majority, yes, but the whole reason everyone in the Middle East is fighting is because not everyone is from the same religious group.

(If you&#39;re referring to Osama Bin Laden I was being sarcastic about how he could easily afford it.)

enfestid
07-01-2004, 04:31 PM
Double

Omar A
07-02-2004, 09:23 PM
The Christians in Iraq support the Americans so I don&#39;t know why they would be beheading Americans.

And don&#39;t double post

enfestid
07-02-2004, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Omar A@Jul 2 2004, 09:23 PM
The Christians in Iraq support the Americans so I don&#39;t know why they would be beheading Americans.

And don&#39;t double post
How&#39;s about we leave the moderating to the mods, mmm-kay? They can delete my posts if they so choose, it&#39;s their job. If they choose to warn me, so be it. But it&#39;s not your job.

Who said they were Christians or Muslims? You do realize that there is more than two religions in Iraq, correct? Also, not all the Christians in Iraq support the Americans. I would absolutely love to know where you&#39;re getting your information from, because when it comes to the occupation of Iraq there is no barrier line.

I, for one, am wondering how you guys were able to tell that the shoes in the video were Air Jordans or any commercial shoe from the Western Hemisphere (saying they were sneakers I can understand) and how the ring on his finger was of real gold when the video was freaking fuzzy at best. You guys have seen the video, correct?

Not to mention that the people on the video weren&#39;t clearly from any religious group.

Omar A
07-03-2004, 04:26 PM
How&#39;s about we leave the moderating to the mods, mmm-kay? They can delete my posts if they so choose, it&#39;s their job. If they choose to warn me, so be it. But it&#39;s not your job.

I don&#39;t have to be a mod to remind you of something that you did wrong.


Who said they were Christians or Muslims? You do realize that there is more than two religions in Iraq, correct? Also, not all the Christians in Iraq support the Americans. I would absolutely love to know where you&#39;re getting your information from, because when it comes to the occupation of Iraq there is no barrier line.

I know they&#39;re muslims because they did a speech before they cut off his head and they were reading things from the Quran (Holy Book for Muslims), and also when they cut off his head, they were calling out Allahu Akbar (Allah is great).


I, for one, am wondering how you guys were able to tell that the shoes in the video were Air Jordans or any commercial shoe from the Western Hemisphere (saying they were sneakers I can understand) and how the ring on his finger was of real gold when the video was freaking fuzzy at best. You guys have seen the video, correct?

How about you go see the video again and than come back and tell us that the shoes aren&#39;t jordans and that he&#39;s not wearing a gold ring. :rolleyes:

ass_kicker
07-03-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Omar A@Jul 3 2004, 04:26 PM

How&#39;s about we leave the moderating to the mods, mmm-kay? They can delete my posts if they so choose, it&#39;s their job. If they choose to warn me, so be it. But it&#39;s not your job.

I don&#39;t have to be a mod to remind you of something that you did wrong.

:lol: sorry to say, enfestid, but omar is right. and dont get pissed, he didnt do it to be mean or whatever, he wanted to help you out. if people say this stuff, theyre probably right and theyre being nice to you. well, they will stop being nice if you dont follow it, obviously.

enfestid
07-04-2004, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Omar A@Jul 3 2004, 04:26 PM

How&#39;s about we leave the moderating to the mods, mmm-kay? They can delete my posts if they so choose, it&#39;s their job. If they choose to warn me, so be it. But it&#39;s not your job.

I don&#39;t have to be a mod to remind you of something that you did wrong.


Who said they were Christians or Muslims? You do realize that there is more than two religions in Iraq, correct? Also, not all the Christians in Iraq support the Americans. I would absolutely love to know where you&#39;re getting your information from, because when it comes to the occupation of Iraq there is no barrier line.

I know they&#39;re muslims because they did a speech before they cut off his head and they were reading things from the Quran (Holy Book for Muslims), and also when they cut off his head, they were calling out Allahu Akbar (Allah is great).


I, for one, am wondering how you guys were able to tell that the shoes in the video were Air Jordans or any commercial shoe from the Western Hemisphere (saying they were sneakers I can understand) and how the ring on his finger was of real gold when the video was freaking fuzzy at best. You guys have seen the video, correct?

How about you go see the video again and than come back and tell us that the shoes aren&#39;t jordans and that he&#39;s not wearing a gold ring. :rolleyes:
Nice way of just ignoring everything I said by claiming I haven&#39;t even seen it. Good job at proving that he wasn&#39;t wearing different shoes and not wearing a gold ring -- I applaud you. I mean, we all know the best way to prove someone wrong is to just say "No, YOU prove it". :rolleyes:

So you&#39;re telling me that they are Muslims? Why is it that you didn&#39;t just state that from the beginning instead of trying to defend the assumption that it may be the CIA, FBI, etc? Fact is, we know crap about these people. We don&#39;t know who they are, despite one of them saying his name (because the name he said is assumed to be the name of a dead terrorist). Any of these things could have been to put the blame on a specific group or person(s). Does that mean it&#39;s a conspiracy, though? Nope. It is just a clowdy situation, as is.

Will
07-04-2004, 03:49 AM
Agreed. No one knows anything about those terrorists or who they really are, but there are a lot of conspiracy theories and speculations and things like that. I&#39;ve read them all and a lot of them are outlandish. I believed a couple of them at first, but now I couldn&#39;t care less. What&#39;s done is done, whether it was a conspiracy or not.

[edit]
Basically, what I&#39;m saying is that I don&#39;t know what to think of these guys anymore. For all I care, they could be natives of Antarctica.

enfestid
07-04-2004, 04:31 AM
Pretty much, yeah... there&#39;s no telling what to think of them. The only plausible answer I can think of (that involves the murderers being American, I mean, to support the conspiracy theories) is the murderers being some of the soldiers who abused Iraqis. There have been allegations that Berg was in one of the prisons, but I doubt that.

For one, I have no clue what kind of soldier would bring an American soldier in and kill him. It&#39;s obvious that the soldiers who abused Iraqis were going "battlefield crazy" (I can&#39;t remember the correct term), but I don&#39;t think they&#39;d to that to an American man for no reason. Two, if the killers were CIA or FBI that means that America knew about the situation in the prisons. I extremely doubt that, given the amount of people that that kind of information would pass through before it finally leaks -- it would have happened much sooner, if that were the case. And, lastly, the video doesn&#39;t look like the prisons at all. The only reason people think that is because of a white plastic chair that was in pictures of the prisoner abuse, and that Berg was in a similar white plastic chair. This is a normal lawnchair you could find anywhere (yes, even in Iraq), so I don&#39;t think there&#39;s definite link there.

So, pretty much the only plausible answer I&#39;ve come up with is that it had to be some sort of insurgent group. I have no clue what religion, but I think they were trying to throw the Americans off with different things (claiming to be a terrorist that was already deceased, which was unknown to Iraqis and pretty much everyone else at the time).

So yeah, I just wanted to say who I thought it was since we&#39;ve gone this far and I haven&#39;t said who I actually believe it is. :lol: