Does anyone else feel this way?

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by Money Maker Mike, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. Agent Sideburns

    Agent Sideburns brodo $waggins LPA Über VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    11,679
    Likes Received:
    7
    I've been feeling the same way, especially because I haven't listened to any of the songs from the album in the last week. That's a bad sign. I think songs like I'll Be Gone, BID, LGM, LITE, In My Remains are way too structured and hence they get boring too fast.
     
  2. Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    3
    I'm just wondering why people seems to think LGM is a low point and COG a highlight. Castle Of Glass is as formulaïc as IBG or IMR. Verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus. And LGM is more adventurous structure-wise than COG. It ends up with a screamed bridge. No final chorus. Well, yes, the srceamed one, but the instrumental is different, only the lyrics are the same. And sound-wise, both explore directions the band hadn't taken before, one being an electro upbeat thing, the other one being a little folky. OK with the lyrics being more deep in COG, but for the rest, it's ridiculous to say "I don't like LGM because it's safe, but COG is an higlight, it's so different!".

    You might prefer COG because you prefer
    - folk sounds
    - Mike's voice
    - the melody
    - calm songs
    - ...
    or because you don't want LP to be agressive anymore, but the whole "It's more safe" argument I quoted before sounds out-of-place to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  3. TheZlajaZlo

    TheZlajaZlo Closing LPA Super Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    5
    I bet that nobody would know it's "folk" if the band wouldn't throw it around all the time.

    Anyway, my initial excitement have decreased a bit, but I'm still listening to it multiple times a day, and discovering new sounds every time. That wasn't the case with ATS.
     
  4. Sunset

    Sunset Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with you, because I'm one of those who thinks CoG is better, but because i love calm songs and Mike's voice



    I don't agree with "nobody". I thought it was very clear it had folk influences the first time I've listened it. And not because the band told us, but because I know a litte how folk music sounds. It was very clear to me in the first 30 seconds.
     
  5. Arun1910

    Arun1910 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    0
    Its sad to say but it doesnt have that much replay value :\
     
  6. Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    40,033
    Likes Received:
    19
    I'm going to piss off a few fanboys here, but to this date I still cannot understand why some fans hold Meteora on a pedestal and act like it's an example of the band at the "peak" of their old sound. Musically it is one of the most uninspired, and safe works the band has ever released. Every song is precisely crafted to a formula and is carefully engineered to sound as accessible and similar to their first album as possible. It is the sound of a band being pushed and pressured by the label (and especially the producer Don Gilmore) to find a way to get lightning to strike in the same place twice and make another hit record.

    The band will probably never say that but the signs are there and it's obvious. Easier To Run is Crawling. Numb is practically Pushing Me Away. Hit The Floor is in the same BPM and almost the same key and song structure as Papercut and when you lay those two tracks over eachother and sync them, they mix nearly perfectly.

    Meteora, unlike the albums that followed after it, doesn't really push the band in any new directions. Sure they tried some new instruments (the flute on Nobody's Listening) but its practically spinning wheels, whereas even Reanimation (pre-Meteora) and the albums that followed saw the band trying to think outside the box.

    LIVING THINGS may be safe in spots, but the band of 2003-2007 wouldve never attempted folk songs like the current Linkin Park does. It might not be their most experimental effort, but its hardly a big step back like some claim.

    /End Rant
     
  7. Atticus

    Atticus Bullets lance the bravest lungs

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    38
    Absolutely agreed Derek! I consider Living Things a step sideways into newfound, if slightly familiar territory. It's certainly not backwards as described in all the hate that's being spawned around it.
     
  8. Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    3
    Sorry for the off-topic, but I need to make my point on this!

    I think you can't understand the Meteora love because you're focusing too much on the band evolution perspective. Your opinion on Meteora seems to be biased by your expectations of never wanting 2 same-sounding records. To me, it looks like you're not considering how good/bad the riffs or the vocals or the melodies sound. Instead it looks like you're only looking at how similar to HT Meteora music is. You're not judging the music, you're judging the similarities.

    Think about this: what would have happened if you had discovered HT and Meteora at the same moment, without even knowing which record was older than the other? Here are my results at this test: back then, when I discovered LP, I used to listen to songs from both records in random order; I didn't even know which track belonged to which record. When I discovered it, it appeared I liked and disliked songs from both records. Since I initially didn't know which song was older than another, I initially coudn't say which one was copy of an older one. So I couldn't use the argument of similarity, and my favorite songs were simply the songs that sounded the best to my ears. So yes, I prefered Numb to Crawling for example.

    Why do some people consider Meteora as a masterpiece? Because the Meteora melodies/instrumentals/vocal performances/... are probably the one that sound the best to their ears. Those people probably don't care about it being similar to HT. Can I say they're wrong? I don't think so. They're simply looking at it from a different perspective.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  9. The riffs are really simplistic and a lot of the songs follow the same chord progressions. The lyrics are corny as hell. Chester's vocals are among the worst, and mike's rapping became oversimplified and "emo".
    When I was a little kid I thought Meteora came before Hybrid Theory. Hybrid theory shows way more maturity and craft than meteora.
     
  10. Andreina

    Andreina Proud Venezuelan LP fan. With adorable feet. LPA Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    8
    I play LIVING THINGS several times a day and it's still yet to get "old" for me. Hell, I'm not even bored of BURN IT DOWN yet.

    Derek, I agree with you 99% of the time but, why your rant about people who like Meteora so much or "put it on a pedestal"? There are some (a lot actually) people who like it so what? I don't know why it should bother you or anyone, it's not like your life depends on the opinion of those people.

    It's been said infinite times on this forum that the people at LPA respect everyone's musical tastes and blah blah blah, yet you complain about the people who do like it and disregard positive opinions about such album like they had no validity. Yes, it might have been a result of label pressure, yes, it might have been a freaking carbon-copy of Hybrid Theory, but people liked it regardless, and it should be respected. You even showed us your 2003-era review of the album speaking of how awesome it was. You don't feel that way anymore, but that doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't either. It's like almost an abnormal resentment for a freaking music album some people have around here. Whether it was a good or a bad step at the moment of the band, it was necessary, and you said it yourself, they didn't know better at the time. People should realize that, as much as Hybrid Theory sound will never come back, Meteora was what it was and it won't be changed no matter how much people rant about it, what's done is done.

    I mentioned it the other day on the shoutbox, I had to listen to Meteora a few days ago and I can't help but saying that the forum had almost ruined the album for me because of the constant blasting of it, I shouldn't care what people say but it's natural for a human being to listen to others, I even second-guessed myself.

    Now back on topic, screw if the songs have generic structures or not, I don't really care I'll just be happy if I like the melody and if it pleases my ears, and LIVING THINGS has done it so far, only thing I would've liked is for the album to be longer, it ends too fast, but I love it, IN MY REMAINS is one of the most "conventional" songs in there yet it's one of my favorites of the album, it'll take a long while for an LP album to wear out for me, I just can listen to them any day.
     
  11. mastae

    mastae Some Honky

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well, we're on a forum where, you know, we discuss things... I don't see it as bothering Derek. He disagrees and offers a good argument. It's 1000x bette than people who post "I agree" or "I disagree" and leave it at that... like their opinion is enough.

    What the fuck? Point out in his post where he disregards positive opinions or complains. All Derek did in his post was offer an argument based on his opinion.

    Not necessarily. People may like something... that doesn't mean it's NOT up for criticism. Nowhere in Derek's post did he seem to lambast the band, the fans, or anything that could be considered disrespectful. And even so, if I have an argument about how the album sucks because of say... simplistic chord progressions... I am more right than someone who says, "WELL I LIKE METEORA AND THAT'S MY OPINION SO THERE." I see a lot of those kinds of post on these forums, because the people who are die hard fans of the earlier works are getting angry that, you know, they're running into completely viable, sane, arguments against the latter work and they have trouble forming a counter argument.

    If the fans of the earlier work can debate the album calmly (and many do), without falling back on the "WELL IT'S MY OPINION AND YOU CAN'T TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME" argument, then it's chill.

    What's ironic here is that you started your argument about how nobodies opinions should be disrespected or silence, and yet now, you want to silence people that continue to critique Meteora. What's done is done, yeh, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it. As long as it doesn't turn into a flame fest, who cares?

    People disagree AND THAT'S OK.

    I have trouble understanding how this works. What aspects did you second guess yourself on? It's OK to recognize a work of art for its flaws and realize it still has some appeal to you.

    I'm a film major and I adore the Saw series, but, from an objective perspective, the Saw films are pretty damn bad. I can still love them for the reasons that I do at the same time that I realize they are very imperfect films, and many of the sequels, while decent, could have been a lot better had $$$ not been the focus (but still, some of the sequels are pretty good imo).

    That's awesome! But people's critiques of the album are still valid, and they're not out to disrespect you or anyone else... they're just, you know... trying to discuss the album on another level.
     
  12. Andreina

    Andreina Proud Venezuelan LP fan. With adorable feet. LPA Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    8
    You are totally not understanding what I want to say. I wrote everything the way I did because I am responding to something that is relatively constant in this forum and not complaining by the post itself.

    I don't need to be reminded of that so the sarcasm at the beginning is unnecessary. Of course it's not something that will deprive Derek from sleeping or cause him any major trouble as this is just a place to exchange opinions and discuss different topics, but is necessary to rant everytime the deal about Meteora is up again? Many LP related topics always get dragged to old LP/new LP topics or a discussion about Meteora so it's just a vicious circle now.


    To me saying "I don't see why people rate Meteora so highly" is a very disguised way of saying "these people don't know what they're talking about" .. And I might be misinterpreting and apologize in advance for any inconvenience but to me it doesn't sound nice at all.


    Where did I say he lambasted the band or the fans? I'm not saying HE does, if we've been long enough in this forum we would all know who likes what, some of my statements may have been too vague to notice but in that case I am actually referring to a colectivity. Of course I know many of the fans of LP's earlier work aren't really good at debates and fall quickly into weak arguments, but why fall into the game and not take the high road instead?


    Why do you say I want to "silence" people? The majority of the post is about how I don't understand why try to convince others to think otherwise. I've never critiqued his own opinion on it, I know he doesn't rate it highly anymore and I know he likes LP to continue experimenting the way they have in the past few years and so do I, but to keep trying to make the people who hold on to that album so dearly think differently is like kicking a dead horse.

    It might seem stupid but after reading so much about it in this forum I didn't even listen to the album anymore and even second-guessed on whether should I play it a certain time or not, I felt weird about it. I remember this interview with Mike where he said he didn't like to explain a song too much because it could ruin people's interpretation of it (he even said he ruined a song for Rob once, because when he explained it, Rob thought it was something completely different). It's a different situation but it did kinda ruined the experience for me for a while.

    ------

    Hey, I am not trying to attack anyone or have bad intentions, it's just that it feels contradictory for me. And honestly I feel weird writing all of this because I feel like I should be discussing this with Derek himself rather than with someone else, even though he can read all of this, I would've liked to know his reply first. Why irk yourself and rant about what other people think? Of course discussing the albums in a musical level is absolutely fine but starting a post with "I don't see why people..." wasn't the best thing to do I think.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  13. Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well, that's your opinion, and I'm fine with it. You don't like Meteora riffs or vocals, I love them. Some will agree with you, some with me, it's all opinions. I was not trying to say "Meteora is good, period." I was just saying that judging Meteora solely on its similarities with HT is maybe not the right thing to do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  14. Vriska

    Vriska Wiki Staff LPA VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes

    I keep getting the impression that Meteora haters keep trying to judge the album on different terms than it was created with. No, it's not supposed to be an evolution of style or an artsy album. It's supposed to be a fun album. Kinda like the same vein Living things is. Except in my musical taste Meteora happened to be way more fun to listen to than Living Things. By magnitudes.

    Dissing Meteora for having simplistic chords is like dissing Mondrian for not painting like Leonardo. They sound awesome. That's is simply the bottom line with this record. The band purposefully made the Meteora songs short and without any dull moments. They wanted to cut the fat out. They wanted lyrics that anyone could relate to. They wanted to prove that they could extend their sound and they did. They wanted to make a great album for listening and they did.

    I could argue until I'm blue in the face about artistic growth and that noise, but that has nothing to do with the mindset behind Meteora's creation (and neither will I ever judge Living Things with that mindset). What it ultimately comes down to is how often I press play on that CD. And the fact that I keep coming back to it must means, that to be true to myself, I can't ignore the fact that this is a great album to listen to. I'm not going to play some dumb game of guilt and shame that I like it despite that it has a couple flaws.

    Now as for Living Things.... an album created in a similar mindset as Meteora........ I don't come back to because I don't find it interesting, and that's how I came to the conclusion on that album.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  15. Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,931
    Likes Received:
    0
    Meteora has numerous, numerous flaws, but one of those flaws is also a strength a lot of people overlook; mainly, that it's one finely, deliberately crafted album. people always talk about ATS and the whole "It's really like one giant, 45 minute song" thing, but Meteora, regardless of how mediocre a lot of it's pieces were, as a whole was one very solid, seamless listen. That, combined with the jerking back and forth between "heavy" songs and softer ballads made for a pretty good variety, there wasn't any real time to get bored with it. The fact that Meteora was "radio" Park at their peak didn't hurt, either. As much as one might shit on the band for deliberately crafting bite sized rock songs specifically so any one could be picked and played on the radio, nobody can really doubt that they were really, really, really good at doing so. Did it take more balls to acknowledge that, stop, and make a conscious point to not? Sure. That doesn't mean they weren't still the undisputed kings of making it convincing, though.

    That album has a lot wrong with it, but what it did right was presenting itself as a sampler platter of modern alternative at the time, and considering the average Linkin Park fan at the time probably didn't have the most seasoned of musical tastes, it's really easy to get why so many people are so fond of that album.
     
  16. Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    0
    It took me three years to find ANYBODY that liked Meteora. The production really isn't that bad though. I didn't care that it was similar to HT, I just thought that the lyrics, some of the vocal production (mostly the rapping), and the mixing was REALLY BAD. I loved HT and it was like a shitty sequel.

    LT isn't an album that I care to put on repeat, but if it's on, I enjoy most of it.
     
  17. Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,931
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never heard anyone say Meteora had bad production before. If anything, I've only ever heard complaints about ridiculously polished production.
     
  18. Gravity_LP

    Gravity_LP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    0
    For me, Living things is awesome. Although it gets kinda boring after numerous replays unlike Meteora. That's the reason why i love Meteora more than Living Things as i enjoy playing it no matter how many times i played it and it's also the album that make me became a soldier and every track of Meteora instrumental is awesome. But Living Things beats off hybrid theory to me as i really love the experimental down there and the fact that LP will never do this in the 2000-2003. I really admire LP a lot. Not many artist (actually none) would actually try out different kind of things and risk their album sales. They rather do what the people want to have a high album sales. But Linkin Park did it. That's also the reason why LP is still popular. People age 12-16 are no longer listening to rock but pop. (You can see that when artist like justin bieber, 1D , katy perry are famous even when their songs are shitty) If u played an album of hybrid theory or Meteora, they will not enjoy it. Playa MTM album/ATS album/ LT album , they love at least one track. I am not saying that MTM ATS OR LT are pop, but the fact that the people in this generation doesn't love the screaming nor the heavy sound of guitars.
     
  19. minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    10,855
    Likes Received:
    97
    While I hardly listen to them at all nowadays and cringe at some of them whenever I do, I still enjoy just about all the songs on LP's second album. :)

    Hang on - isn't that what you yourself were doing? :kappa:
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  20. Jesse

    Jesse Out of the abyss. LPA Über VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,055
    Likes Received:
    10
    I have been saying it was getting old for a long while...
     

Share This Page